Direct Deposit of SS/Fed/Military Pensions into Bangkok Bank; IAT format

[ToS2014]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is due to USAA not being able to do the transfers in the IAT format,

 

I can assure you it works for SSA. I have seen a recent post by a person doing it for VA benefits. I have also read that your military  retirement payments cannot be direct deposit to there.

You have to set up the SSA transfers at your Bangkok Bank branch and they will send the SF 1199 form to Manila.

The SSA and the VA now have direct deposits now to any Thai bank.

 

Those can only used to prove the source of your income if needed.

 

The 400k baht has to be in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply. And perhaps during the under consideration period.

That may be the best option since you will not have 12 months of transfers to show in May.

Thanks as always for sharing your wisdom.  

 

I had a follow up question to my bank (USAA) and just spoke to them and I hope what they informed me helps others in my situation so I'll share their (USAA) answer as to why they cannot send/transfer funds in the IAT format....to be short...."we cannot send any money transfers via the IAT format since we are not an international bank".

 

Perhaps I'm making this more difficult on myself; however, my logic is...why in the world can I utilize my debit card worldwide as a cash advance/withdraw.....and the bank cannot 'send' money, (they can send a international wire but as previously noted, I just dislike giving money to a bank to hold and move my money), seemingly like it does via my Visa debit card.

 

Grrrrrr.... I'll 'hang up now'....Thanks again Ubonjoe. 

[Langsuan Man]

7 hours ago, ToS2014 said:

Perhaps I'm making this more difficult on myself; however, my logic is...why in the world can I utilize my debit card worldwide as a cash advance/withdraw.....and the bank cannot 'send' money, (they can send a international wire but as previously noted, I just dislike giving money to a bank to hold and move my money), seemingly like it does via my Visa debit card.

Because using a debit card you are using either the Visa or Mastercard system, not the banking system and the bank get's a cut (via the exchange rate) that you are unaware of 

 

And USAA used to have no problem sending funds to Bangkok Bank's New York office since they were coded as domestic transfers, that all changed when Bangkok Bank in New York decided or was forced to no longer accept "domestic" transfers that were really "international" transfers

 

And USAA will send money Internationally via SWIFT wire but you pay for it 

 

Quote

Outgoing International Wire Transfer fees International Outgoing: $20 International Wire Service Fee: $25  Total fees: $45

 source: https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/wire_transfer_instructions?SearchRanking=10&SearchLinkPhrase=international wire fees

[kurtmartens]

On 3/23/2019 at 4:54 PM, crees said:

I have tried to change my address through SS Manila since Feb 6th. I wrote to BB and it still has not been done. The Manila SS Office is either asleep on the job or over whelmed with address changes. They do not reply back … except for an automatic reply that keeps telling me to give them 5 business days to reply. 

They have been great responding to me twice now - within 24 hours.  I have a direct email address for them, if you send me a private message I'll share it with you.

[Captain 776]

SS and Veterans checks are all now in the IAT FORMAT.

Any other funds you previously had transferred to BB New York, you must contact the issuing bank and request they issue it in IAT format.

I just did it last week.

My Dec SS check was no problem but my retirement checks were not accepted and returned.

I asked U S Bank to change format for Jan checks, they said no problem....... time will tell

[Pib]

14 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

SS and Veterans checks are all now in the IAT FORMAT.

Any other funds you previously had transferred to BB New York, you must contact the issuing bank and request they issue it in IAT format.

I just did it last week.

My Dec SS check was no problem but my retirement checks were not accepted and returned.

I asked U S Bank to change format for Jan checks, they said no problem....... time will tell

I know of no US bank that sends in ACH "IAT" format.  Now all US banks can receive ACH IAT format no problem but I know of none that will send an ACH transfer in ACH "IAT" format; instead they only use the standard/domestic ACH format which is for funds transfers not leaving the U.S.   The ACH IAT format is a more detailed/coded differently format than an ACH domestic format.

 

So what do banks use to send funds internationally then?  Well, they use an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) which normally cost in the $20 to $45 sending fee ballpark. An Intl'l Wire is not to be confused with and ACH IAT transfer as ACH and SWIFT are two completely different transfer systems....different animals.

 

Regarding you SSA check (payment) Bangkok Bank NY is still letting non-IAT format ACH US govt payments such as SSA payments to continue till 1 Jan 2020.  At that point supposedly even US govt ACH payments not in ACH IAT format will be rejected.   1 Dec 2019 was the cutoff date for non-govt ACH payments although I expect a few might still squeeze through.

 

You can call/email Bankgok Bank to confirm whether an ACH payment arrived in ACH IAT format or not.  But one way to tell if your SSA payments is in ACH IAT format or not is to look at the description of the transfers in the SMS/text you can get from Bangkok Bank when an international transfer posts to your account. 

 

If the SMS starts off saying "SSA Treas 310..." then it's in domestic ACH format; if it starts off by saying "Social Security Administr..." it's in ACH IAT format.   If not getting the SMS because you are not signed up for the Free SMS Remittance then just ask for a "Credit Advice" at your Bangkok Bank branch for your last payment...it's free...just takes them a few minutes. Then look at the Credit Advice for the sender info I gave above....if you see "SSA Treas 310" it's not in IAT format.

 

And if you have switched from ACH to International Direct Deposit (IDD) which uses SWIFT for your SSA payment then the text will start off by saying "Federal Reserve Bank..."  An IDD payment comes via the SWIFT system with the last leg of the transfer being via BahtNet. 

 

[Captain 776]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

I know of no US bank that sends in ACH "IAT" format.  Now all US banks can receive ACH IAT format no problem but I know of none that will send an ACH transfer in ACH "IAT" format; instead they only use the standard/domestic ACH format which is for funds transfers not leaving the U.S.   The ACH IAT format is a more detailed/coded differently format than an ACH domestic format.

 

So what do banks use to send funds internationally then?  Well, they use an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) which normally cost in the $20 to $45 sending fee ballpark. An Intl'l Wire is not to be confused with and ACH IAT transfer as ACH and SWIFT are two completely different transfer systems....different animals.

 

Regarding you SSA check (payment) Bangkok Bank NY is still letting non-IAT format ACH US govt payments such as SSA payments to continue till 1 Jan 2020.  At that point supposedly even US govt ACH payments not in ACH IAT format will be rejected.   1 Dec 2019 was the cutoff date for non-govt ACH payments although I expect a few might still squeeze through.

 

You can call/email Bankgok Bank to confirm whether an ACH payment arrived in ACH IAT format or not.  But one way to tell if your SSA payments is in ACH IAT format or not is to look at the description of the transfers in the SMS/text you can get from Bangkok Bank when an international transfer posts to your account. 

 

If the SMS starts off saying "SSA Treas 310..." then it's in domestic ACH format; if it starts off by saying "Social Security Administr..." it's in ACH IAT format.   If not getting the SMS because you are not signed up for the Free SMS Remittance then just ask for a "Credit Advice" at your Bangkok Bank branch for your last payment...it's free...just takes them a few minutes. Then look at the Credit Advice for the sender info I gave above....if you see "SSA Treas 310" it's not in IAT format.

 

And if you have switched from ACH to International Direct Deposit (IDD) which uses SWIFT for your SSA payment then the text will start off by saying "Federal Reserve Bank..."  An IDD payment comes via the SWIFT system with the last leg of the transfer being via BahtNet. 

 

Google U S Bank

Ask for International Transfer Dept

Ask if they can do wire transfer in IAT format.

 

The whole idea of IAT format is mainly to track money laundering but also affords extra security I was told, I personally called them myself.

 

Just the meaning of IAT proves what you say is not accurate.

IAT = International ACH Transfer..........why would USDept of Treasury enact a procedure that would prevent international transfers.

 

I also called Bangkok Bank N Y personally to their international dept and was assured that S S and any Veteran checks are now all received in IAT.......I have never had my S S check returned from BBNY.

[kurtmartens]

@Pib my transfers from Bank of America go thru every time with no issues.   

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

@Pib my transfers from Bank of America go thru every time with no issues.   

Are those via Bangkok Banks branch in New York?

[TheAppletons]

11 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

Google U S Bank

Ask for International Transfer Dept

Ask if they can do wire transfer in IAT format.

 

 

  No one is talking about wire transfers, aka SWIFT transfers.  Those have been, and will continue to be, available out of the USA.

 

  Pib is talking about ACH transfers.  If they aren't in IAT format, they won't be accepted by Bangkok Bank.  

[kurtmartens]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Are those via Bangkok Banks branch in New York?

Yes.  

 

I just checked, my dad who lives with us here also had no issues with his B of A transfers.  

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Yes.  

I just checked, my dad who lives with us here also had no issues with his B of A transfers.  

They have kept moving the the cutoff for the transfers not in the IAT format. First April then September and now apparently this month.

Have you verified the coding of them with Bangkok Bank to find out if they are in the IAT format?

 

[kurtmartens]

My dad's yes, mine no.  Mine was setup years ago as domestic.  

[jimgilly]

Right now I get my SS direct deposited into a US credit union.  I then would use a Visa debit card from the credit union to withdraw funds and they used to cover the 220 baht ATM fee and 1% Visa card fee bit as of 1 December no reimbursement of the 1% fee which amounts to about $15. 

 

Would the fees be less than $15 if I switch over and have my SS funds direct deposited into Bangkok Bank?  Thanks for the replies

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Captain 776 said:

Google U S Bank

Ask for International Transfer Dept

Ask if they can do wire transfer in IAT format.

 

The whole idea of IAT format is mainly to track money laundering but also affords extra security I was told, I personally called them myself.

 

Just the meaning of IAT proves what you say is not accurate.

IAT = International ACH Transfer..........why would USDept of Treasury enact a procedure that would prevent international transfers.

 

I also called Bangkok Bank N Y personally to their international dept and was assured that S S and any Veteran checks are now all received in IAT.......I have never had my S S check returned from BBNY.

If you are calling the International Transfer Dept you are talking an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT).  ACH and SWIFT are two different systems.  Do not confuse ACH "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" with an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT).  Two different animals....two different systems.

 

My wife's and my SSA payment were "not" being sent in ACH IAT format until we change our address on file with SSA to Thailand; then they were changed to ACH IAT format.

 

Yes, no one has had a US govt payment rejected for not being in ACH IAT format because that policy does not go into effect at the NY branch until 1 Jan 2020.

 

And what the NY branch told you that all SSA payment are in ACH IAT format is simply incorrect.  The majority are, but not all...all depends on what address you have onfile with SSA....a US address or Thailand/foreign address.  

 

[ubonjoe]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:55 AM, jimgilly said:

Would the fees be less than $15 if I switch over and have my SS funds direct deposited into Bangkok Bank?  Thanks for the replies

It depends upon the amount the transfer is.

Less than $2000 is $5 and over it is a $10 fee taken out by the branch in New York. Then a .25% fee with a minimum of 200 baht and a maximum of 500 baht here.

[hml367]

42 minutes ago, Pib said:

If you are calling the International Transfer Dept you are talking an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT).  ACH and SWIFT are two different systems.  Do not confuse ACH "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" with an International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT).  Two different animals....two different systems.

 

My wife's and my SSA payment were "not" being sent in ACH IAT format until we change our address on file with SSA to Thailand; then they were changed to ACH IAT format.

 

Yes, no one has had a US govt payment rejected for not being in ACH IAT format because that policy does not go into effect at the NY branch until 1 Jan 2020.

 

And what the NY branch told you that all SSA payment are in ACH IAT format is simply incorrect.  The majority are, but not all...all depends on what address you have onfile with SSA....a US address or Thailand/foreign address.  

 

Are you sure SWIFT and International Wire transfer are the same thing?

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, hml367 said:

Are you sure SWIFT and International Wire transfer are the same thing?

Yes. US banks typically use the terminology of International Wire (which uses the SWIFT system...SWIFT codes) and Domestic Wire (which typically uses the FedWire system...use ACH routing numbers). 

 

Typically an International Wire (SWIFT) will cost in the $20 to $45 ball park.....that is a Sending bank fee.  A Domestic Wire around $10-$25.  An ACH transfer usually free although some of the more fee-evil banks like Bank of America charge a $3 fee.

 

An International Wire that is transmitted via the SWIFT system is not to be confused with an ACH "International ACH Transactions (IAT)" transfers.  Different systems....different animals.

 

 

[hml367]

31 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes. US banks typically use the terminology of International Wire (which uses the SWIFT system...SWIFT codes) and Domestic Wire (which typically uses the FedWire system...use ACH routing numbers). 

 

Typically an International Wire (SWIFT) will cost in the $20 to $45 ball park.....that is a Sending bank fee.  A Domestic Wire around $10-$25.  An ACH transfer usually free although some of the more fee-evil banks like Bank of America charge a $3 fee.

 

An International Wire that is transmitted via the SWIFT system is not to be confused with an ACH "International ACH Transactions (IAT)" transfers.  Different systems....different animals.

 

 

Thanks!

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

Just the meaning of IAT proves what you say is not accurate.

IAT = International ACH Transfer..........why would USDept of Treasury enact a procedure that would prevent international transfers.

The US Treasury is not "preventing" anyone from accomplishing an ACH "International ACH Transaction (IAT); but the US Treasury has tightened ACH IAT rules to where Bangkok Bank just can no long skirt fully complying especially since they are the "gateway" bank relaying the funds out of the US.  A "gateway" bank is one where funds enter or exit the US.  

 

Assuming you were doing an ACH transfer from USBank when you entered the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number and your in-Thailand acct all that USBank knows is you are transferring funds from them to Bangkok Bank NY (a license US bank).  USBank assumes you have an acct at Bangkok Bank NY since you are using their ACH routing number and that's as far as the funds are going/not leaving the US.  So a domestic ACH transfer is done from USBank to Bangkok Bank NY.....a domestic ACH is a less detailed format (less info) than an ACH IAT transfer.

 

However, you (none of us) have an account at the NY branch....we are only using the NY branch ACH routing number to get the funds to the NY branch who in-turn knows your acct number is really at a Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand.  So, acting as a Gateway bank Bangkok Bank NY relayed the funds to Bangkok Bank in Thailand. 

 

Now before that Gateway bank relayed the funds via ACH they are suppose to ensure they were in ACH IAT format---Bangkok Bank has not been doing that for years and years.  Instead, they were using some other workaround to document the transfer leaving the US....this workaround was probably perfectly legit/met US Treasury requirements "at the time."  But requirements have tightened to where Bangkok Bank NY could not dodge the ball anymore...and it not just Bangkok Bank NY but any US bank acting as a gateway for funds that enter/exit the US via the ACH system.

 

So, to repeat, the US Treasury is not using anyone from doing an ACH IAT transfer.  In fact that's what they want/require if using the ACH system to transfer funds out of the US....and the US Treasury expecting Sending, Gateway, and Receiving banks to fully comply.   

 

If the ACH IAT can not be used then use SWIFT (Int'l Wire) or some peer-to-peer money transfer service like Transferwise, OFX, Western Union, etc.  And you might even be able to do a Domestic Wire if your US bank uses a domestic wire format which is basically similar to the international wire format....about the only difference is the domestic wire using ACH routing number and the international wire SWIFT codes---and of course an international wire costing more than a domestic wire. 

 

Several months ago I did a domestic wire from one of my US credit unions to my Bangkok Bank acct using the Bangkok Bank NY ACH routing number as the funds arrived in around 12 hours.  Fortunately, my particular credit union (St Dept Fed CU) uses an online domestic wire form that provides all the same info that would go in an international wire or ACH IAT transfer like full info/Thailand address/phone number of the receiver and the domestic wire only costs $6. 

 

 

[jimgilly]

On 12/18/2019 at 12:06 PM, ubonjoe said:

It depends upon the amount the transfer is.

Less than $2000 is $5 and over it is a $10 fee taken out by the branch in New York. Then a .25% fee with a minimum of 200 baht and a maximum of 500 baht here.

I'm a bit confused on "a minimum of 200 baht and a maximum of $5 here".  At 30 baht to the US dollar 200 baht is around $6.67 which I get but could you explain what the maximum of $5 is?

[dave s]

5 hours ago, jimgilly said:

I'm a bit confused on "a minimum of 200 baht and a maximum of $5 here".  At 30 baht to the US dollar 200 baht is around $6.67 which I get but could you explain what the maximum of $5 is?

The commercial Bangkok Bank office in New York accepts a US $ amount from the retail USA bank branch where you have your USA account. It subtracts either US$5 or US$10 from that amount, as a sending fee, and moves the remaining money to Thailand.  Bangkok Bank converts the US $ amount to a Thai baht amount (usually at a reasonable exchange rate, this month B30.11 to US$1), and subtracts 0.25% of that Thai baht amount as a receiving fee. But if the receiving fee is less than B200, they charge the minimum fee of B200. Similarly, if the calculated receiving fee is more than B500 (not US$5!!!),  they only charge the B500 maximum receiving fee.  The remaining Thai baht amount is deposited into your local Bangkok Bank savings account, and hopefully marked "FFT" for immigration. The total cost of the transfer depends on all these different numbers. The cost to send through Transferwise depends on a whole different set of numbers. And so on, for SWIFT transfers, for Western Union transfers, etc. To accurately compare methods, you must work out the exact calculation for each transfer method. The result can vary a lot, and the input numbers to this calculation can change over time. Pib regularly posts spreadsheet output with example calculations, and the "break point" amounts where one method becomes better than another. Search for items on this subject and look through his responses. For example, searching Google for "thaivisa forum pib compare money transfer costs" brings up, among others:

   

Bangkok Bank has 2 kinds of SMS alerts you can sign up for: local activity (too "noisy" for me), and all the numbers of a foreign transfer (this month, the SMS said "SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTR has transferred THB... ([email protected] minus THB200) from abroad into account number ...").

Edited December 22, 2019 by dave s

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, jimgilly said:

I'm a bit confused on "a minimum of 200 baht and a maximum of $5 here".  At 30 baht to the US dollar 200 baht is around $6.67 which I get but could you explain what the maximum of $5 is?

Sorry a proofreading error when I missed that typo that is now fixed. It should of been 500 baht not $5.

[kurtmartens]

On 12/18/2019 at 10:59 AM, ubonjoe said:

They have kept moving the the cutoff for the transfers not in the IAT format. First April then September and now apparently this month.

Have you verified the coding of them with Bangkok Bank to find out if they are in the IAT format?

 

Okay.  Bit of bad karma this week for me.  The transfers I had scheduled were returned to Bank of America from Bank of Bangkok (NY).  I called the NY office last night / there morning and the person I spoke to confirmed that the cutoff went into effect (he mentioned they had a 10 month grace period that finally ran out) and "domestic" transfers would no longer be allowed.  Suggested I "wire" the money and gave me the SWIFT for Bangkok Bank ... I did and it the money left Bank of America and I will be curious to see how long it takes to credit to Bangkok Bank.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Suggested I "wire" the money and gave me the SWIFT for Bangkok Bank ... I did and it the money left Bank of America and I will be curious to see how long it takes to credit to Bangkok Bank.

Was that SWIFT code for the New York branch that is BKKBUS33 or here that is BKKBTHBK.

You should have it on Monday or on the 2nd after the holidays.

[Pib]

If he used either of those SWIFT codes then he would have initiated an "international" wire as SWIFT codes were used.  If he initiated a "domestic" wire (cheaper than an int'l transfer) then he would have used the same ABA routing number of 026008691 just like for an ACH transfer.  And sure hope he didn't let BoA do the currency exchange as the BoA exchange rate is several percent below Bangkok Bank's TT Buying Rate used for incoming transfers.

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

  If he initiated a "domestic" wire (cheaper than an int'l transfer) then he would have used the same ABA routing number of 026008691 just like for an ACH transfer. 

A domestic wire transfer and a ACH transfer are one in the same as far as I know.

They are suggesting a SWIFT transfer.

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A domestic wire transfer and a ACH transfer are one in the same as far as I know.

They are different although both used the ABA routing number for the recipient bank.  An ACH transfer goes through an ACH clearing house and processed in batch mode; a domestic wire usually goes through FedWire one-by-one/processed much faster.  The settlement process and speed of transfer are just different between an ACH transfer and a domestic wire.   

 

Depending on your US bank a domestic wire form (paper or online) may look just like a international wire form except for you enter/select the ABA routing number vs SWIFT code.  But at some banks a domestic wire paper or online form may be almost the same as an ACH transfer form.   I know this personally from looking at the domestic wire forms used by my various US banks....and posts I've read from others.