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Denied Entry at Phuket


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Sorry that this may be a long post, but hopefully it will clarify the situation concerning who has to pay for the outbound ticket when someone is refused entry.
 
Transportation of passengers by all airlines are regulated by the UN under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organisations (ICAO). 
 
The airline industry governing body, known as the International Air Transport Association (IATA) interprets the ICAO rules/regulations and provides the airlines with explicate guidance in what is known as the ‘Ticketing Handbook’.
 
The IATA ‘Ticketing Handbook’ contains over 370 pages of detailed information covering almost every situation, including a comprehensive section (2.23.13) on what the airlines responsibilities are if a passenger is refused entry (also known as an Inadmissible Passenger).
 
As the IATA ‘Ticket Handbook’ is covered by copyright I, therefore, will endeavour to summarise the relevant details:
 
Definition….. Inadmissible Passenger (INAD) means a passenger who is refused entry to a country by the authorities of that country.
 
Ticketing Procedures: -
 
a)  It is the responsibility of the final inbound airline to take all necessary steps to ticket that the inadmissible passenger.
 
b)  The place to which the inadmissible passenger is to be ticketed will be advised by the authority which has refused entry.
 
c)  Where a passenger is in possession of a return ticket this ticket should be used, or the value of any remaining coupons should be used, as payment towards a new ticket in the event that the original ticket can not be used as originally issued. 
 
d)  Where a passenger is not in possession of a ticket to cover the journey from the country where entry has been refused, the inbound airline is responsible for ticketing the passenger and collection of the fare for the outbound flight from the inadmissible passenger.
 
Regarding payment for the flight (d above), you will find that within the airlines Terms and Conditions of Carriage there is a little clause to the affect:
 
“If you are refused entry to a country (including a country you transit through while en route to your destination), you must reimburse us in full on request any fine, penalty or charge assessed against us by the government concerned (including detention costs) as well as the fare for transporting you, and an escort if required, from that country. We will not refund to you the fare paid for carriage to the airport where you were refused entry”.
 
If you hold travel insurance you will no doubt find that there is an exclusion clause which covers being denied entry, or deported, by the authorities of the destination country so the insurance company will not pay for the additional outbound ticket.
 
If the passenger who has been denied entry has no onward ticket or cash/credit card with which to make the immediate payment for the outbound flight, it is likely that the airline will attempt to recover its costs by civil litigation in the passenger’s home country.
So, if you have a return ticket they will use that? If you don't have a return tickets perhaps you have a better chance of going to KL or somewhere else?
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43 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A simple step-by-step, where they have to answer "yes/no" questions, and get a "pass/fail" at the end, would be best.  If left to what their supervisors tell them, this arbitrary roulette will never end, as they substitute their own agendas, for the law.

They could easily click one thing but do another.

Quote

This could greatly simplify the process for the IO - customized for the visitor in question.  The machine-screening could take into account things like  whether the min-wage in the visitor's passport-country is higher than "under the table" Thai wages, whether previous-visitors from the visitor's passport-country have a significantly higher crime-involvement within Thailand, and etc.

Applying a set of decisions to arrive at an final outcome is the sort of thing IT systems have been doing since the 70s.  Hardly worthy of the label 'AI'.

 

In my experience IT has rarely been successful at solving organisational problems.  In fact, poorly thought out systems often make things much worse.

 

Some of the demographics processing might be slow to do in real time and would be more suited to a BI (Business Intelligence) system.

Edited by mngmn
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33 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

If the passenger who has been denied entry has no onward ticket or cash/credit card with which to make the immediate payment for the outbound flight, it is likely that the airline will attempt to recover its costs by civil litigation in the passenger’s home country. 

That would be the way to go.  And because court/atty costs are more than the value of the ticket+detention (they must also cover that cost), it would likely be possible to make a "deal" to settle the matter at a write-off loss for the airline. 

 

If done frequently, the response could be the airlines requiring a "bond" to fly to "unpredictable" Thailand, price-hikes to cover losses, and/or other actions which TAT would not be happy about.

 

At the least, one could use this leverage to get the airline to "help" convince Immigration to allow one to choose an alternative destination - though this would still leave the incentive to sell last-minute overpriced tickets in-place.

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1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

So, if you have a return ticket they will use that? If you don't have a return tickets perhaps you have a better chance of going to KL or somewhere else?

In theory yes, but where the passenger who has been denied entry is flown too will depend upon:-

 

a)  The immigration officer who had denied entry.  The officer (under Section 55 of the Immigration Act) has the discretion to send the passenger back to the country where they embarked on the inbound flight or to allow the passenger to fly to another destination of their choosing.  In both cases it will also depend upon the passenger being allowed to enter that country.

 

b)  The airline is obliged to comply with the Immigration Officer’s instructions which will be given to them in a formal ‘Removal Notice’.  The airline can make representation to Immigration on behalf of the passenger but there is no guarantee that any such request will be granted.

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3 hours ago, Cheesus said:

Alright so quick update:

 

I was allowed to go to any destination I want which was very surprising since other 2 guys in the room (1 more joined few hours ago) have to go back to the same exact destination. One of them will have his flight costs covered by AirAsia though.

 

I booked return flight with AirAsia to KL and back to Phuket.

 

Thank you for all the replies from people trying to help and providing support. I appreciate it.

 

Could you also answer 4 questions about KL visa issuing process? (My first time there)

 

1. Do they require any other documents than:

- application form

- passport

- copy passport

- flight in and out of Thailand

- proof of accommodation in Thailand?

Just the same as any other Embassy, but make sure copy everything twice just in case something goes wrong like bad signature or paper ripping.

There is no copy shop just around the corner of the embassy in KL.

For the exact requirement, check online.

 

3 hours ago, Cheesus said:

 

2. Where on the KL airport or close to embassy can I make photos and document prints?

Not far from the embassy, on the same road. Ampang Mall.   BUT.... they are demolishing this mall, or already done that, a pity as it was one of the oldest and original mall in KL.

Anyway, here you can make photo and copies.


Not sure if it is gone yet. Maybe something new now, but surely around there you can find shop for photo and copy. (and exhange).

Another exchange, for a good rate, is on KL Sentral and on the JLN Bukit Bintang, near the pavilion (next to mcdonalds)

 

If you are around Bintang, you can make photo here to in one of those 'hidden' malls, near the AirAsia station (BTS look-a-like). Look for 'Sungei Wang'.

 

3 hours ago, Cheesus said:

 

3. I also found this on their website 

 
To ensure that clear and precise information is given, visa enquiry can only be made through email at [email protected].

I'm not sure what they mean. I already booked appointment for tomorrow 10.20-10.50.

 

4. And how much do I need in THB to show officer in KL when crossing immigration in case he/she asks?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Cheesus said:

Alright so quick update:

 

I was allowed to go to any destination I want which was very surprising since other 2 guys in the room (1 more joined few hours ago) have to go back to the same exact destination. One of them will have his flight costs covered by AirAsia though.

 

I booked return flight with AirAsia to KL and back to Phuket.

 

Thank you for all the replies from people trying to help and providing support. I appreciate it.

 

Could you also answer 4 questions about KL visa issuing process? (My first time there)

 

1. Do they require any other documents than:

- application form

- passport

- copy passport

- flight in and out of Thailand

- proof of accommodation in Thailand?

 

2. Where on the KL airport or close to embassy can I make photos and document prints?

 

3. I also found this on their website 

 
To ensure that clear and precise information is given, visa enquiry can only be made through email at [email protected].

I'm not sure what they mean. I already booked appointment for tomorrow 10.20-10.50.

 

4. And how much do I need in THB to show officer in KL when crossing immigration in case he/she asks?

 

 

1. You need a copy of the checklist itself.

 

2. I got mine at a place called Studio Coloroid in the basement floor of Suria KLCC mall. Very fast and easy. The KLCC stop on the LRT Kelana Jaya line connects to the mall, and the next stop on the LRT (Ampang Park) puts you about 1km from the embassy. Either walk or take a taxi for a few ringgit.

 

Note: A taxi from the mall to the embassy is about the same price, but the taxis parked outside the mall will quote you an insane fee (15 or 20 ringgit) rather than using the meter. Catch a taxi from the street instead.

Edited by OutofSiam
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5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Correct, which is why one only receives 60-days permitted-stay when entering with a Tourist Visa, or 30-days permitted-stay when entering Visa-Exempt.  Those who want a year of permitted-stay must abide by different rules.

 

He followed the laws and rules.  The only ones "playing" the system, are the IOs who are not following the law - often denying entry for false-reasons. (claiming people came to work-illegally, don't have funds to support their stay, etc - w/o evidence this is the case).

 

Please link to any regulation which you believe the OP broke, by staying in Thailand on Tourist Visas in the past.  Unless his trip to Japan was "a same day out/in", he did not even break the unofficial-rules which only apply to visa-exempt entries - though there is no clear legal means to deny-entry based on those "unofficial guidelines."

 

To the law-abiding visitors who were denied-entry illegally, Immigration needs to provide a public apology, promise to follow the published laws henceforth, plus pay civil-damages for the cost of flights, accommodation, and the stress/suffering inflicted on the visitors.

I told you last week. The big change is coming. Wait until they release this new immigration act. You are 100% going to have something too complain about then.

 

The committee has been working on eleven main changes to immigration rules and penalties since January. 

 

Other changes include the stamps that will be used by immigration. A new flag shaped design is in the offing.

 

In a related story Lt-Gen Surachate himself said that a ministerial committee will discuss the proposals this week with implementation expected after Songkran on April 22nd. 

 

TNA called the present era "Yuk Big Joke" (the era of Big Joke) in their feature on the proposed changes. 

 

Sources: TNA | TNA

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3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I told you last week. The big change is coming. Wait until they release this new immigration act. You are 100% going to have something too complain about then.

That is months away from being approved by the new parliament that may start working by June. It is not something that will be done soon if ever.

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7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is months away from being approved by the new parliament that may start working by June. It is not something that will be done soon if ever.

Once again you choose to argue about something you clearly have zero knowledge of. As I said last week, it makes no difference to you being in denial or what you believe. You really need to start understanding you don't dictate immigration policy in Thailand.

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9 hours ago, Cheesus said:

After arriving Phuket I didn't sign anything

 

The other guy in the room with me have the same situation. 15min ago representative of AirAsia just came and said his next flight back to Penang (where he came from) is already booked for free

 

Embarked in Nagoya with transit in Shanghai

 

Usually close to maximum. I live in Thailand so pretty much every 3 months. I also had METV 2 times from my home country

OP lives in Thailand on tourist visas and now attempts to live in Thailand on visa exempt. Living in Thailand on tourist visas and visa exempt is the reason OP was detained. If he was a tourist from Poland visiting Thailand he would not have any problem or issue. The sky is not falling. But  Thailand is cracking down on immigrants living in Thailand without a non immigrant visa or work permit. Sorry for you OP as you are probably a nice guy but the problem is Thailand does not know who is nice and who is not so they don’t want any immigrants living here without a proper visa that allows residing or working here. 

Edited by Wake Up
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OP lives in Thailand on tourist visas and now attempts to live in Thailand on visa exempt. Living in Thailand on tourist visas and visa exempt is the reason OP was detained. If he was a tourist from Poland visiting Thailand he would not have any problem or issue. The sky is not falling. But  Thailand is cracking down on immigrants living in Thailand without a non immigrant visa or work permit. Sorry for you OP as you are probably a nice guy but the problem is Thailand does not know who is nice and who is not so they don’t want any immigrants living here without a proper visa that allows residing or working here. 

How about stopping criminals coming instead? rather than stopping people who spend money. I don't think they have much of a clue why they are stopping people. I'm sure if you did the 3 whys, they'd be stumped even BJ  

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Tayaout said:

I know they can be heavily fined (the airline and the check-in employee) by immigration if for example the passenger doesn't have an exit ticket. However the way immigration often doesn't check these thing maybe it's not enforced. 

No they can't be fined if the passenger doesn't have an onward ticket. They are simply responsible for the cost of deporting the passenger.

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2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can assure I am aware of a lot more than you think and apparently more than you do in this caste.

Acts (aka laws) are only done by the parliament and amendments to them have to be approved by them.

I could tell you something but it's futile. You would never believe me. I would simply be wasting my time ????

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9 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Don't sign anything. Unfortunately you almost certainly have already signed accepting to be detained and to pay for your "accommodation".

 

Politely insist that you are not a criminal, have done nothing wrong and you wish to purchase a ticket to Malaysia.

I don't understand this latest advice not to sign anything! It doesn't make any difference whether or not you sign the expulsion notice or not. You're simply signing that you understand the reasons given for denied entry/expulsion.

 

You will be deported to wherever immigration decide, detained until you're handed over to the airline, and legally charged for the cost of the room, with or without a signature.

 

Surely the only time you shouldn't sign anything is if it's in a language you can't read or that you believe to be false.

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20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can assure I am aware of a lot more than you think and apparently more than you do in this case.

Acts (aka laws) are only done by the parliament and amendments to them have to be approved by them.

BJ stated that they were pushing for the amendements within current Parliament (May) but expressed doubt as to the likelihood of that - however there will be a lot more continuity with the "democratically elected" incoming Govt than normal so it could be this year.

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2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I don't understand this latest advice not to sign anything! It doesn't make any difference whether or not you sign the expulsion notice or not. You're simply signing that you understand the reasons given for denied entry/expulsion.

 

You will be deported to wherever immigration decide, detained until you're handed over to the airline, and legally charged for the cost of the room, with or without a signature.

 

Surely the only time you shouldn't sign anything is if it's in a language you can't read or that you believe to be false.

It is written in Thai and going on previous posts , if you sign the paper , you are admitting guilt and then liable to pay accommodation costs (800 Baht a day +) and could then have to be sent to your home Country m rather than being able to fly anywhere 

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4 minutes ago, mokwit said:

BJ stated that they were pushing for the amendements within current Parliament (May) but expressed doubt as to the likelihood of that - however there will be a lot more continuity with the "democratically elected" incoming Govt than normal so it could be this year.

The current parliament has stopped considering new acts and etc. It will have to be submitted to the new parliament.

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4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It is written in Thai and going on previous posts , if you sign the paper , you are admitting guilt and then liable to pay accommodation costs (800 Baht a day +) and could then have to be sent to your home Country m rather than being able to fly anywhere 

  • Expulsion notices are written in Thai and English. 
  • You aren't admitting to anything, but acknowledging why you're being prohibited entry, and the right to appeal.
  • You are liable, under law, for the cost of "accommodation" whether you sign or not.
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