Big Joke: Promises easier, faster and more "watertight" Immigration rules

[sapson]

24 minutes ago, connda said:

You and others pontificate about 'burning bridges', but has it every occurred to you or the pea-brained crowd who managed not to get screwed in the various stock market downturns, specifically 1987, 2001, and 2008 that others did?  Or do you have a silver spoon permanently embedded where light seldom shines that you feel above all the hoi polloi.  So, you feel you can be holier-than-thou.  Congratulations. How wonderful for you.  So who burned the bridges?  Me?  No!  Leaving the US, or UK, or EU in order to make our fixed income stretch farther, to live a middle class life in a developing country rather than living on the dole in our own over-priced, urban-ghettos where the gentrified pretend to be scraping by on their trust funds, inheritances, and endowments, or family businesses which mommy and daddy willed to them? - that's burning bridges?  The bridge is still there dear dudes - but cross it and you're immolated by the cost of living, by the Machiavellian rules and regulations, and if you happen to look down and out or poor or a street person in your transition back from getting off the plane at home while trying to reestablish a life - if a cop shoots you for acting strange - you die, he's acquitted, and who cares. You frightened him so he had cause to riddle you with bullets.
Thailand is not the 'end-all'.  It's a place who's usefulness as an expat retirement haven and a place to raise a Thai family may be reaching its end.
But there are you who believe you're better than the rest of us - which is a very Thai cultural imperative - "I'm higher than you, and you are lower than dirt."  The trouble is - I'm not Thai.  I don't buy into it. I don't give a damn who you think you are.  And to paraphrase Lee Marvin in the Professionals,

'You may consider me a bastard, but you sir, are a self-made man.'

Try some empathy.  It's good for the soul. 

 

 

Excellent post ...........the Im alright Jack self righteous brigade on here are bewildering.

[malibukid]

9 hours ago, ocddave said:

I am sure this is all due to the new closeness between Thailand and China, out with the West, in with the East, out with Democracy, in with Authoritarian Military/Elite rule.

i have said this before.  Thailand is pivoting towards China. the new Chinese middle class is what they are after.  

[connda]

7 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You have 2 choices. Comply with Immigration or leave. People crying and whinging will not change it. The positive changes are good for those can and will comply and for Thailand in it how intends to move forward and to operate it's immigration policy.
It is 2019, not 1981 any longer.

So in 1998 they grandfathered those under the old financial requirements.  Still in effect I believe.  But now if they move the goalpost it looks like not only the authorities and politician will be willing to break up Male Farang/Female Thai families or Male foreigner / Female Thai families without loosing any sleep over the matter.  Hear anything about 'Grandfathering".  I have not and don't expect to.  How about Female Foreigner / Male Thai - that will probably not see the light of day and will simply be ignored and buried.  Sexist? Yeah.  Xenophobic. Yeah.  Will anyone care?  Yeah, maybe some do-gooder in the UN will write a position paper that will be ignored. Other than that - No.
So, LoveThailandDelite - you're in the 'let's split up Male Foreigner/Female Native Thai families - and who cares.  Right?

[malibukid]

9 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Easier, faster and more watertight =

 

• 1.6 million baht on deposit for 12 months for retirement extension
• 800K baht on deposit for 12 months for wedding extension
• 30 day reporting with full finger printing and facial scan on each occassion
• 10K baht fine for not doing TM30 report (payable by foreigner on next extension application)
• Compulsory medical insurance payable to agent at each immigration office. No choice of providers
• New stamps that will burn a full page in your passport, not just half a page like the previous ones.

 

or perhaps a 12,000 Baht retirement extension fee. the road ahead for Thailand will be rocky.  i see trouble ahead.  i will not deposit money in the bank. too much anxiety

[visarunner]

9 hours ago, worgeordie said:

We are going to have to Watch what he proposes ,he has ideas !? 

regards worgeordie

put a wall around Thailand.

 

[4675636b596f75]

8 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

The man known as Big Joke even went so far as to specifically mention "people of color and South Africans" as a problem. 

 

Unbelievable. 

He doesn't appear to me to be a person "not of color."  What's he talking about?

[Grusa]

8 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

 

What they can do is make is logistically impossible for any of us to stay

"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you".

Joseph Heller, "Catch 22"

[malibukid]

8 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Big Joke seems to equate poor = bad and rich = good.  I guess it never occurred to him that a successful criminal might have no trouble showing enough money!

Jesus was poor, but rich in grace.  but BJ would not realize this

[humbug]

4 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Did some informal unscientific post election polling this afternoon. Couldn't find a single person who seemed pleased with the results. "Demoralized" "resigned" and "resentful" are the words I would describe the five people I talked to.

there are always tipping points, you never know how long it takes to change path, but that tipping point in my mind has been breached. income matters and billion dollar companies are complaining in naff business sections of having less long term stayers. the more damage these illegal nationalists do, the more it will be corrected. its just matter of when,not if and how many of us leave in the meantime.

 

as for the thais, they have hundreds of laws being forced upon them that will take years to repair, its nuts

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

I have been saying for months that long stay expats in Thailand are currently under siege.

Most were mocking my comments.

10 years ago to get my retirement extension I used to have to deposit 800kB, fill in a form, stick on a photo, provide an electricity bill, pay 1900B and wait for an hour in Immigration.

 

These days I do exactly the same but I only have to wait about half the time.

 

On top of that I get paid 2.5% interest for my deposit and I can even claim back the withholding tax paid on the interest.

 

Should I feel "under siege"?

[malibukid]

8 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Not going to look good for BJ when immigration are chucking 65+ year old people into the IDC. Subsequent deaths could cause him a big problem!

good point. Thailand needs all the good publicity it can get now on CNN

[fforest1]

10 minutes ago, Benroon said:

So what you’re saying is you’ve spread yourself too thinly across various countries and that is Thailands fault how ? 

 

If you can’t bring in 65000 a month you now have to accept you’re not wanted. 

 

Thailand has set contribution criteria and you’ve sadly failed them. All countries have them, you now just have to find one that fits. 

 

Spain is cheap !

He retired here under certain rules and expectations....So he should be grandfathered in under thoes rules....

 

Spain sounds like the perfect country for all condescending posters who full of themselves.....    

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Is that what happens in your home country? USA, Australia, UK, NZ - I don't know of a single country where "foreign expats opinions or suggestions {are} taken".

I don't know of any single country that changes the rules every few months with very little notice of there implementation.

[fforest1]

5 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

10 years ago to get my retirement extension I used to have to deposit 800kB, fill in a form, stick on a photo, provide an electricity bill, pay 1900B and wait for an hour in Immigration.

 

These days I do exactly the same but I only have to wait about half the time.

 

On top of that I get paid 2.5% interest for my deposit and I can even claim back the withholding tax paid on the interest.

 

Should I feel "under siege"?

Yes ....

[malagateddy]

Troops..firstly, this is not a country called expatsland..but Thailand.
Every country has different rules/regs re non nationals living there.
I'm British..my Wife came to the UK with me 2005..the rules/regs were the rules/regs THEN.
Now..totally different rules/regs..financial bits n bobs requirements.
When my wife got her " indefinite leave to remain " visa..followed by naturalisation=British citizenship, the cost was " x " amount.
Now I believe the cost is " x+y+z " !!!
That's life.
Nothing anyone can do about it.
Maybe just maybe if some of the posting expats on this Forum started cutting back on non essentials like fags and booze, things could be better for them financially??!!
Cheers


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[connda]

7 hours ago, sidgy said:

I love these threads, BJ says some ambiguous comment and its interpretation morphs into the imminent deportation of all Falangs. I do notice from this and other thread postings, that most of the doomsayers have since left Thailand or never been long term here anyway. Could it be a touch of jealousy/ resentment that things didn’t work out for them that they want/ wish these self invented scare stories become reality


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

And again, someone with under a 100 posts schooling those of us who have been here a decade or longer.  Of course, you've been living here from 20 years, but just started to comment on TV.   

[Brigand]

It's all coming to an end...just deal with the fact folks that they want us out and they are slowly tightening the screw to make it happen as they can't just throw us all out due to bad PR. I would say most have about 5-10 years, depending on their stats, and then it's only rich people and WP (if you are lucky).

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, connda said:

And again, someone with under a 100 posts schooling those of us who have been here a decade or longer.  Of course, you've been living here from 20 years, but just started to comment on TV.   

Always remonstrating with us for not having their empathy and understanding of the Thai.

[ToddinChonburi]

This could help close down all the illegal hotel condos. Sounds good to me.

[malibukid]

7 hours ago, humbug said:

these illegal nationslists in control now do 'not' have a majority mandate to keep running this land into the ground. they are pushing through 100's of laws that people dont want, knowing it will take years to correct the mistakes. their mandate about foreigners was set along with the other rules, to control this land before sutheps mob and at a one day stadium protest, lasting 7 hours with dinosaur generals hyping themselves 7 years ago. 

 

going forward there will be much more anger from billion dollar businesses about decreasing long term stayers, not just the will of the people.

 

just last week in the other naff paper the ceo of mall group said their 60 billion investment in 2 new complexes on the outskirts of bkk included a business plan of long term stayers. the ceo was quoted as saying the gov. should help bring more long term stayers not less as the gov. was too focused on short term stays.

 

lets see over the years when these nationalists are kicked out, how many of these new rules, future rules will stay or vanish.

 

the turning point was last sunday, thats why they are rushing through laws

i know expats with $$$$ are leaving.  just fed up.  

[malibukid]

6 hours ago, moe666 said:

I keep hearing they have made it harder and I have to ask harder how. Other than tighting up the proof of your income and now requireing it to be shown in a Thai Bank, only for the 4 lazy Embassies, also longer stay of your lumpsum in the bank money. What is harder folks, O forgot only harder for the fools who have been fooling themselves with lies about their income or using a agent to deposit money for them. Many times here on Thai Visa have seen the Brits complaing about the US folks who only had to raise their hand and swear my income. Well, now they are in the same boat even though they showed paper work their Embassy can not be bothered to actually prove it was correct. Get over it boys changes are coming and people do not like it, especially those who have been lying and cheating

i trust U.S. banks period. the political situations here is unstable.  when did you see tanks in the streets in the U.S. last.  get real.  some of us are just playing it smart.  Immigration is not the least interested in statement from my U.S. brokerage accounts.  this is just a windfall for the banks here.  nothing to do with cheating. 

[connda]

6 hours ago, Ctkong said:

I think BJ is not thinking about criminals among long stay visa owners. The point is the amount of money these people spend in the local economy. As costs increase, the amount needed in the bank should also increase proportionally. They do not want foreigners living at the edge and resorting to crimes to stay afloat. I believed looking at how thailand treat those criminals with means, I think doing the right thing is not in their mindset. Is it all about money and power. That is why well off criminals are able to stay in Thailand for long periods under the radar and also maybe under the auspicious of the authorities in the area. Criminals targeted Thailand to retire not only because of lax border enforcement but also because they know payoff can work well to leave them well alone. 

I know!  Let's force farang, especially on fixed incomes, to put more of their limited disposable income in a Thai bank which pays 1% interest or less, because then these pensioners who now have less disposable income are less likely to commit crime because they are relatively poorer.    ????  Doesn't matter that 10 or 15 years ago they were supporting the Thai economy.  Now? Hell, screw them.

[GeorgeCross]

18 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Troops..firstly, this is not a country called expatsland..but Thailand.
Every country has different rules/regs re non nationals living there.
I'm British..my Wife came to the UK with me 2005..the rules/regs were the rules/regs THEN.
Now..totally different rules/regs..financial bits n bobs requirements.
When my wife got her " indefinite leave to remain " visa..followed by naturalisation=British citizenship, the cost was " x " amount.
Now I believe the cost is " x+y+z " !!!
That's life.
Nothing anyone can do about it.
Maybe just maybe if some of the posting expats on this Forum started cutting back on non essentials like fags and booze, things could be better for them financially??!!
Cheers


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

how would you feel if the UK decided to rescind your wife's citizenship, restart the process, and make you pay the new x+y+z?

 

effective immediately..

 

..you know just because it's their country and they can ????

 

but i'm sure you wouldn't mind, just "cut back on non essentials like fags and booze" for a while and it's no problem eh!

 

thats how retiree's feel right now.

 

having retired (!) to a country under a set of rules only to have those rules changed and then not be grandfathered in. it's BS.

 

 

[TKDfella]

I went for my retirement extension yesterday and had no problems (800k in bank). I did, however, ask if there were any new rules regarding this method. The IO said that there were to be several changes but didn't know any detail since, as yet, no one at that office had been briefed. Perhaps it was the content of the OP that the IO was referring to.

[Genmai]

4 hours ago, Thaiarrow said:

It is best if readers remain calm and understand that the changes are still under discussion and review by the ministry.

Readers are again reminded that Thailand is one of the most popular destinations in the world with visitor numbers increasing year over year. Because of the immense popularity of Thailand, there are some bad people who seek to exploit the welcoming and open position of Thailand. As the hard working and acclaimed Lt. General Surachate Hakparn stated, "those up to no good would hide out under the guise of being tourists." Thailand intends to protect the nation against the criminal foreigners who seek entry. and one of the most pressing needs is to  block the loopholes that allow non tourists to stay as tourists.  Unfortunately, some foreigners may interpret the protective measures as directed against them only. This is sad, but not a reasonable conclusion. Thailand seeks only to remove the  foreigners who present as a threat to social order and who are at risk of being a financial burden to the generosity of the Thailand nation.

 

Readers are again reminded that Thailand provided one of the most accepting and generous of education visas and it was quickly abused by long term residents who had no intention of pursuing education. Therefore, when we read the complaints of people who do not have the financial means to meet some of the easiest  visa requirements in the world, the cries from such people will not  be greeted with great sympathy. The number of people who may be negatively impacted is very small, perhaps a few hundred. In the great total of the tens of millions who easily enter Thailand each year, the small number of non compliant, while sad, must be accepted in order to protect the safety and best interests of the  desirable visitors and the people of Thailand.

Thank you for patience and consideration of the needs of the total society over those of a few who should not be in Thailand because they are niot able to financially take care of themselves.

 

This is either some very convincing LARPing or a bunch of condescending PR speak that is an insult to the many horror stories which you can read about on this forum.

 

When you or someone says something like “don’t jump to conclusions, wait and see because the changes might be positive” – I don’t believe a word of that, and likely the majority of readers here don’t either. This is because frankly speaking the foreign expat community’s trust in immigration has been completely eroded. Neither you nor anybody on this forum can point to any of the numerous changes in immigration procedures made within the last 5 years that haven’t made things WORSE for law-abiding foreigners living here long-term instead of making them “faster” or “watertight”. (The only example I can think of is the work permit change - as a business owner you are no longer restricted to working at one specific location or having to carry out duties as they pertain to your particular job title only. This was a good change that meant corrupt officials can no longer arrest restaurant owners for carrying out forbidden manual labour, i.e. carrying crates of potatoes in their own kitchen). For the honest retirees, students, business owners and married folks – every change so far has overwhelmingly resulted in adding more hurdles and impediments. I understand this country has the unfortunate attribute of presenting itself as a favourable destination for criminals. Why should we suffer for that? You can give out a cake to every retiree who happens to visit CM immigration on their birthday – it won’t cover up for the fact that everybody feels a clear lack of distinction being made in the methods here between processing criminals and law abiding expats.

 

I don’t think most foreign expats here would even really mind  all these increasing intrusions and barriers to conducting their life here in a free manner IF the bureaucratic nature of conforming to all the requests was eliminated and streamlined in accordance to technology available in the modern era. Immigration must have warehouses full of useless papers with boxes where my address is written down on at least 100 different documents.

 

Easiest visa requirements in the world? You’ve got to be joking. There are plenty of other countries who offer more and with an easier process to boot. I can go to Georgia right now and stay for 365 days on a visa-exempt entry stamp, during which I can open up a bank account, etc. I can also go to Taiwan visa-exempt, extend my stay, then hop out to Hong Kong and back to Taiwan, rinse and repeat for years whilst happily spending my money in the local economy. Vietnam offers a straight forward business visa with minimal requirements, etc etc etc. Secondly, fulfilling the initial requirements is only half the battle since maintaining your legitimate stay here isn’t exactly a walk in the park. Thirdly, I speak from my own business experience: from the moment of incorporating my Thai company to the moment I was finally issued a work permit the time spent was almost 12 months. I will spare you the details of that saga suffice to say that it was a nightmare. My lawyer had to compile multiple copies of my documents just for the company registration and bring a change of clothes in his car for a potential multi-day trip. Why? Because he had to drive around different districts until he found an office where the officials didn’t make up rules and regulations as they liked. Also, why should I as a small business owner in Thailand be forced to pay myself a monthly wage five times that which an average Thai earns (after incurring additional expenses of having to hire 4 Thais – excluding my partner who owns the majority of course – to sponsor myself)? That’s all business/work related, but the same inept official attitude seems to apply to retirees and marriage visa holders since there are numerous reports of people being told conflicting information from less-than-helpful staff.

 

As for the education visa being abused by long-term residents with no intention of pursuing education – again, why should I or other genuine students care or be targeted by the response to this? Also, why does immigration conveniently leave crooked schools out of the picture? Aren’t the schools in the wrong for offering fake students the ED visa? A cynic might say it might have something to do with brown envelopes. Again from personal experience: I took a language course in the first year of my stay here. The school explicitly sold me a 1 year course taught over Skype (it was and continues to be advertised openly as such). They faked my test results to always be at least 95% correct when I couldn’t even understand most of the material. Upon visa extension they specifically told me to lie to immigration and tell them I attended class physically because “immigration don’t understand what is Skype”. I was also informed that if there was a random check on the school I should come quickly and show my face. Then I found out the lessons only went on until the 6 month mark. They said  “you pay 12 months visa, but we teach you only 6 months”. If I wanted additional lessons I could come to an “agreement” with my teacher. What the hell are genuine students expected to do in this situation? Report the school and risk losing the visa, or worse – getting charged for defamation because corrupt officials are most likely involved?

 

I could go on and on but you get the picture. So, you can talk like a spooky detached AI about “the problems with your forum” and make all the claims of “false information being spread” but forgive me for being anxious and EXTREMELY sceptical of this announcement when in my experience the only effects law abiding expats have been subjected to here as a result of new rules and regulations have been overwhelmingly negative.

 

To all the people saying that those who are concerned are overreacting or “just put the bloody 800k in the bank and be done with it” – you are the proverbial frog in the pot. Look around and ask yourselves – what procedures have immigration implemented in the last 5 years that made things better instead of worse for genuine expats here? It might not affect you today but if you aren’t taking stock of the clear direction things are heading in and preparing accordingly then you are making a grave mistake.

[mokwit]

He's [Thaiarrow] not for real. TV has more trolls than the Norse sagas.

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, Genmai said:

To all the people saying that those who are concerned are overreacting or “just put the bloody 800k in the bank and be done with it”

Ask them about that when it's 3m - see how many can still “just put the bloody 800k in the bank and be done with it”

[connda]

4 hours ago, emptypockets said:

What is Thailand going to do to protect its citizens that are married to a foreigner - will you be making the visa process easier? No more 90 day reports or embarrassing photos with the spouse in the bedroom required?

I can't wait until Immigration requires elderly couples like myself and wife to take picture of ourselves doing the horizontal mambo in order to 'prove' that we're actually married even after 12 years of matrimony.

[TKDfella]

16 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Expats never have and never will come close to ‘supporting the Thai econony’  an economy worth $455billion - the sums have been done to death on here.

 

Long  term expats have a grossly inflated opinion of their worth here 

Well, I don't know what you mean about 'long term'...10 years...20? I go beyond these and I can certainly I don't have a view of myself as you, imo, erroneously state. For those who do yearly extensions, in itself, is a harsh reminder that the reality is they could be denied at any time.

[humbug]

28 minutes ago, malibukid said:

i know expats with $$$$ are leaving.  just fed up.  

that goes to show,people with more money are leaving not just those with less money. Then you have billions of dollars taken out of the country from large investments over the last 12 months. Whilst the global economy is turning downwards sharply. If you keep busting peoples balls with naff laws for everyone thai and foreign, you just increase the downtrend sharply for this land's economy.

 

before it changes against these nationalists,this land will have lost so many investors