Explainer: Here’s what is required by Chonburi immigration for TM30 and retirement extensions

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, mike787 said:

Another stupid Thai system make it up as they go along...consequences are on you if you don't figure it out...don't forget to "save face".  Welcome to LOS!  Enjoy your stay, now get out!

Spot on! And different set of misunderstood rules at nearly every office. 

[bkk6060]

34 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

People NEED to know what are the legal consequences of --

 

Going under the 800K during the 90 day POST seasoning period

 

Going under the 400K after the 90 day POST seasoning period and before the PRE seasoning 800K period for the next extension

 

I've been posting about this for months now.

Immigration has never announced one thing about that.

It's fair to assume that if you go under the 800K during the initial POST seasoning period, that your current extension is CANCELLED, but then what? Prison? Deportation? Order to leave? Overstay fines? Blacklisting (if so how long)? WHAT!?! People NEED to know.

 

On the 400K period, it's not even easy to make any assumptions at this point. 
We NEED to know.

 

Some people have guessed it would only mean that your next year's extension would not be possible. That would be mild. But they don't know. Guessing things are better than they actually are has proven to be a very DANGEROUS game in this current extremely onerous environment. 

Maybe they are hoping responsible people will obey the rules set forth.

I assume the penalty could be the worst case scenario.  Which is why it would just be smart to obey the rules, and do not go under the amount.

[55Jay]

Penalties for non-compliance is an eminently fair question.  

 

One would think a government body drafting and implementing enforceable policy on a National level, would also include penalties.  The fact nobody in Immigration seems able or willing to answer the question, is revealing.  

 

My opinion only, I think the 400k low limit is a bluff, intended to smoke out the farangs who employ dodgy agents and their fake accounts/deposits to get around the rules.  BJ mentioned this specifically and then presto - out they came with this post-extension seasoning and the arbitrary 400k threshold. 

 

By not announcing a strict penalty policy, Immigration is leaving themselves flexibility to make case by case decisions as they arise.  The same kind of flexibility they exercise at air/land/sea border entry points.

 

For 800k in the bank method, my guess is a person who dips below the 400k but tops up again to 800k in time for the next extension, and otherwise presents a consistent financial pattern here over time, will be fine.  They aren't the fish Immigration is trying to catch. 

 

IMO, every single agent assisted extension should be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

[Skeptic7]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Good questions.

 

But also worth remembering that this is the boss of Chonburi immi saying what his rules are. Very useful for those people who live in Chonburi.

 

If you live in a different area covered by a different office then best to check what their rules, implementation and process is.

 

 

While you are, of course, correct...it should be the same set of consistent, standardized rules and requirements for EVERY office Kingdomwide. No excuse for such lame ineptitude and typical, thoughtless inconsistency...which is sadly the norm here. 

[Ebumbu]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The applicant must also be able to show the income transferred into a Thai bank around the same time each month. 

 

New curveball? This is first time I've heard "same time each month." I have done "different time each month" since January. 

If I can show a year of monthly 65k+ deposits, that's not going to satisfy them now? Is this peculiar or Pattaya, or universal? They keep moving the goal post. Very frustrating. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Maybe they are hoping responsible people will obey the rules set forth.

I assume the penalty could be the worst case scenario.  Which is why it would just be smart to obey the rules, and do not go under the amount.

That is a total COP OUT.

If they are going to announce new rules, they need to clearly tell us exactly what it means for those that for whatever reasons fail to meet them.

[doctormann]

I wonder just how strict Jomptien are going to be on the matter of doing transfers at about the same time every month?  Here's a scenario that, although not strictly relevant for me this year - I have one of the very last Income Letters from the BI - might be worth being aware of.

 

I do a SWIFT transfer every month from my UK bank to my TMB account here on the same date, every month.  Things are set up so that the money leaves the UK on the 27th of each month as that is the approximate date that my occupational pension gets paid.  As has been pointed out by other posters, the UK State Pension is paid every four weeks but that is not relevant here.  This arrangement usually works flawlessly and the money is usually in my TMB account the next day - recorded as an EXIM transfer - and I think that Immigration should know that EXIM is a transfer via the Thailand Export/Import Bank so I'm not anticipating any problems with that.

 

However, there is a potential snag.  Sometimes, weekends get in the way and the transfer takes longer.  Over Xmas and New year, 2018/9 the Thailand banking system took EIGHT DAYS to clear the funds to my account so we were several days into January by the time that the funds had arrived.  The January SWIFT transfer proceeded as normal so now, according to my TMB bank statement, I made two transfers in January but none in December.  Technically, therefore, I have broken the rules and could be denied my extension.  It is clear from my UK statement - which Immigration will not even look at, in all probability, that transfers were made at the appropriate times.

 

I suppose that the obvious way forward is to do transfers in the middle of the month as that should avoid the problem.  Mind you, there are so many days when Thai banks don't work that you might still get caught out!

[MaxYakov]

I won't be opening a/any Thai bank accounts - been there, done that. They're going to have to accept proof of deposits into a non-Thai bank account or "some other country or some other visa type" here I come! Colombia's looking better and better these days.

 

Living in Thailand is hardly my definition of freedom (understatement).

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

I won't be opening a/any Thai bank accounts - been there, done that. They're going to have to accept proof of deposits into a non-Thai bank account or "some other country or some other visa type" here I come! Colombia's looking better and better these days.

Yes, I smell an opportunity for more Thai restaurants in Colombia. Perhaps we can establish little Former Thai Expat barrios there? Perhaps specialist apartment buildings that feature bum guns?

[Sheryl]

To be clear:

does "they do not need to submit a TM30 form each time they return from a trip outside the province. " also apply to returning (to the same address) after a trip outside the country? The OP does not specify that.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

Does the tax reference not refer to funds from Thailand having to be from a taxable source?

 

I think he is making the point that funds from a taxable source in Thailand will be viewed as equivalent to funds brought in from overseas.

 

That is how I read it also.

 

And first time I have seen anywhere a suggestion that Thai sourced retirement income (investments, rental etc) would be accepted. Police order does not mention it.

[tandor]

3 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Was that the one leaked online that showed all foreigners living in the South and included sensitive information such as DoB, passport number etc?

..why not put a chip under our forearm skin as we enter the country and be done with it.

[chickenslegs]

1 minute ago, tandor said:

..why not put a chip under our forearm skin as we enter the country and be done with it.

Must admit I did a 'double-take' when I read this post.

 

Forearm skin - If the Thai Immigration ever introduced these chips, I hope they get the translation right.

[NanLaew]

Toys all over the place again.

 

For those complaining about lack of TM30 consistency, please relocate to Chiang Mai. There's absolutely NO inconsistency there and you need to file a new TM30 as soon as you get back from the pub. Every time, no excuses and within 24-hours. Please don't complain about it after you do move there. And that goes for the smog too.

 

For those complaining about what the punishment will be for missing the financial cut 90-days after the extension is filed, since nobody's been caught yet and Jomtien seems to be one of only a few offices doing this early spot-check, we won't know. We do know that Thai Immigration edicts are always in response to a happenstance and never clear and concisely stated up front. But it's pretty much guaranteed that the Jomtien response will be diametrically opposite to (say) Chiang Mai's response.

 

As for the bank account falling below 400 k baht during the year and/or not having it back up to 800 k baht in sufficient time, then the same rule will apply as has always applied with regard to a 'seasoning fail' in that your SUBSEQUENT extension will simply be denied. It's always been predicated on proving the previous 12-months income so nothing new here at all. If/when one doesn't get their extension renewed, the same options apply as now namely leaving and getting a new visa or somehow starting over again. Note that these rather obvious options will be the same granted to the impoverished and unlucky foreigner blowing his tiny wedge before the first 90-day report/check.

 

All these totally unfounded and irrational suggestions of arrest, IDC, deportation and blacklisting are manifestations of the unreasonably insecure stress-monkey IMHO.

[55Jay]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

To be clear:

does "they do not need to submit a TM30 form each time they return from a trip outside the province. " also apply to returning (to the same address) after a trip outside the country? The OP does not specify that.

FWIW, I followed the Jomtien Immigration threads on this issue back when it was swirling.  Once JT Immigration calmed down and got sensible, recall one guy posting that he went there to report this return from a trip abroad, and was told no report was necessary as he returned to the same address.

[tandor]

29 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Penalties for non-compliance is an eminently fair question.  

 

One would think a government body drafting and implementing enforceable policy on a National level, would also include penalties.  The fact nobody in Immigration seems able or willing to answer the question, is revealing.  

 

My opinion only, I think the 400k low limit is a bluff, intended to smoke out the farangs who employ dodgy agents and their fake accounts/deposits to get around the rules.  BJ mentioned this specifically and then presto - out they came with this post-extension seasoning and the arbitrary 400k threshold. 

 

By not announcing a strict penalty policy, Immigration is leaving themselves flexibility to make case by case decisions as they arise.  The same kind of flexibility they exercise at air/land/sea border entry points.

 

For 800k in the bank method, my guess is a person who dips below the 400k but tops up again to 800k in time for the next extension, and otherwise presents a consistent financial pattern here over time, will be fine.  They aren't the fish Immigration is trying to catch. 

 

IMO, every single agent assisted extension should be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

...well if they (Immigration) have been so concerned about 'where the money comes from' (and Agents have been suspected); how then will they react to where you get the 400k to top up again..doesn't that make the whole thing farcical..(I suppose we will have to prove where that came from).

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That is a total COP OUT.

If they are going to announce new rules, they need to clearly tell us exactly what it means for those that for whatever reasons fail to meet them.

No. They do not need to spell out anything to those that can't comply. Their task is to make sure everyone is absolutely crystal clear on what is needed to comply.

[Kenny Boy]

It will be interesting to see what price hikes the 'agents' apply as a result.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

No. They do not need to spell out anything to those that can't comply. Their task is to make sure everyone is absolutely crystal clear on what is needed to comply.

No. We DO need to know. They may not be willing to say. They may not really know (that's what I suspect). But we need to know. As it stands now, I predict we won't start to get clues until we hear actual reports of people that for whatever reasons fail to comply.

 

Cheers.

[myshem]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

But if you have a foreign friend or family member staying with you overnight at your house or condo, you are required to notify immigration that the person is staying at your address and are subject to being fined if you don’t.

 

But you cannot know and cannot do anything, so I will never report anyone as I have also never reported myself !

Yes, you also cannot do anything against people who just leave and come back every 3 months instead of having to deal with idiots at any immig office to get a stamp.

 

 

 

[AAArdvark]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

People NEED to know what are the legal consequences of --

 

Going under the 800K during the 90 day POST seasoning period

 

Going under the 400K after the 90 day POST seasoning period and before the PRE seasoning 800K period for the next extension

 

I've been posting about this for months now.

Immigration has never announced one thing about that.

It's fair to assume that if you go under the 800K during the initial POST seasoning period, that your current extension is CANCELLED, but then what? Prison? Deportation? Order to leave? Overstay fines? Blacklisting (if so how long)? WHAT!?! People NEED to know.

 

On the 400K period, it's not even easy to make any assumptions at this point. 
We NEED to know.

 

Some people have guessed it would only mean that your next year's extension would not be possible. That would be mild. But they don't know. Guessing things are better than they actually are has proven to be a very DANGEROUS game in this current extremely onerous environment. 

Near the end of the video it is stated that one of the reasons for having the money in the bank is in case of emergency such as medical.  That's great except having such an emergency could cost you your extension since you will have been under 800k while paying for that emergency.

[55Jay]

2 minutes ago, tandor said:

...well if they (Immigration) have been so concerned about 'where the money comes from' (and Agents have been suspected); how then will they react to where you get the 400k to top up again..doesn't that make the whole thing farcical..(I suppose we will have to prove where that came from).

Perhaps a transfer into the account from abroad, roughly 2 (or 3) months before the application for extension is filed?  It would be rather obvious looking at the bank book. 

 

800k, whittled down over time, then topped up again as required.  That's what I would be looking for.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, AAArdvark said:

Near the end of the video it is stated that one of the reasons for having the money in the bank is in case of emergency such as medical.  That's great except having such an emergency could cost you your extension since you will have been under 800k while paying for that emergency.

It could cost you much worse than that!

That is my point.
You do realize people are being ORDERED to show up 90 days AFTER their extensions to verify compliance?

That is dead serious.

That's not about the NEXT extension.

That's about the CURRENT extension.

[Peterw42]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

To be clear:

does "they do not need to submit a TM30 form each time they return from a trip outside the province. " also apply to returning (to the same address) after a trip outside the country? The OP does not specify that.

Yes, that is the more relevant question for everyone, and not answered.

 

[Sumarianson]

400K in the bank all year for banks to make a great deal of money from. Brown envelopes elevated to those who make the rules. 

Why 400,000 in the bank all year? This is too much for me. 800000 in the bank for 5 months with no access to the funds? What are we supposed to spend? This is extortion by a government body. I have had enough of this larceny.

 

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Why 400,000 in the bank all year? This is too much for me. 800000 in the bank for 5 months with no access to the funds? What are we supposed to spend? This is extortion by a government body. I have had enough of this larceny.

If you're using the 'money in the bank' to live on how do you replenish those funds for your next annual extension?

[Jingthing]

Just now, sumrit said:

If you're using the 'money in the bank' to live on how do you replenish those funds for your next annual extension?

As I've been doing for over 10 years. I transfer in the new money to TOP UP from abroad annually.

 

[55Jay]

Just now, Sumarianson said:

400K in the bank all year for banks to make a great deal of money from. Brown envelopes elevated to those who make the rules. 

Why 400,000 in the bank all year? This is too much for me. 800000 in the bank for 5 months with no access to the funds? What are we supposed to spend? This is extortion by a government body. I have had enough of this larceny.

It sucks we all have to endure this.  As usual, these over the top crack downs are caused by shit bags playing up, then the efforts to catch them lands on everyone's heads.  And of course, the shit bag I/Os who facilitate the fraud from within.  BJ needs to keep cleaning house.  The entire staff at my Immi Office was changed out in one fell swoop late last year.

[geisha]

So, if a person stays on a tourist visa , ( 2 months plus a right to 30 days extension, ) the host has to inform immigration that the foreigner is staying at that address. Ok , but it doesn’t mention if  the tourist has to go himself to immigration , which I was asked to do by Jomtien Imm, and what I have been doing for the last two years , as well as them being informed by my condo ???

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

As usual, these over the top crack downs are caused by shit bags playing up

I think you're wrong and believe all these crack downs are caused by Thai officials innate hatred for white male foreigners.