Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative

[mommysboy]

Brexit vote latest news: Philip Hammond to propose putting Theresa May’s deal to a second referendum

 

Like all sensitive solutions it will be roundly rejected by the Government.  

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Is there anybody, who can explain the British "you need two for tango? ". And that is NOT Labour & Conservatives….

Why are you telling me this, I already know. I just wish the EU would put the CD of Fleetwood Mac singing 'Go Your Own Way'

[StreetCowboy]

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

All alternatives rejected.
Very distasteful to reject everything but not to find a viable compromise for all.
The government and parliament of the UK is unable to find a yes consensus.
If the parliament and the government are unable to act, the ability to act must be restored.
Either through
- a new referendum or
- by new elections or
- a phased exit from the EU with realistic deadlines.

In an ideal world, we would have a plan.  But in the absence of a plan, a referendum is not a good substitute, as we have found out to our cost.

 

So really, the choice as we look over the cliff is:
Quadrophenia or The Italian Job?

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

For what benefit ?

I hope parties with people I can respect will hold the balance of power. Both the CONS and Corbyn will get hidings.

[StreetCowboy]

12 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Come to experience the European continent. Your job is already here, your nurses and docters found a better job here, despite your £ 350 million per week for the NHS.

For import duties into the EU, see  https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

A LOT of Industrial output, e.g. cars: 10%. Confectionary 13,7%, and meat; seen vetrinary regulations; forget it.

In 1970 I hitch-hiked from Dover to Inverness. The £  was worth Hfl 10,64 ( /2,20 = € 4,828). Now it is a € 1,167 a 24% of then. The DM went from Hfl 0,90 to 1,12, an increase of 24%. So, donot worry about the increase of costs seen import duty into the EU: in no time, you succeed to bring down the £ to € 0,90 and are able to compete again. Oh.. your PURCHASING.. prices.. that's YOUR problem.

It's great living in a low-wage economy.  Ask any of the expats in Thailand.

But only if you're wealthy

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, Benroon said:

He said nightmare scenario for business - read it more slowly.

 

Several times Brexiteers have been asked on here to find an industry boss (job providers) in favour of Brexit and several times they’ve gone quiet !!

 

No business = no jobs but it’ll all be ok right because we can all rely on the jobs from the deals we haven’t got!

Next, JCB, JD Wetherspoon,Ineos are a number of job providers that are in favour of Brexit

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I hope parties with people I can respect will hold the balance of power. Both the CONS and Corbyn will get hidings.

That would be the Dup then as they voted against everything last night

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That would be the Dup then as they voted against everything last night

Don't be facecious! I can't abide the DUP inbreds

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

- a phased exit from the EU with realistic deadlines.

The British already got over so many years… 

January 2013: Cameron announces he will oraganise a referendum

May 2015: After the election gains, Camerion anounces a referendum

Nov 2015: Cameron insists a changement of several EU regulations, especially one of the bases: free movement of persons.

Jan 2016: Boris the Liar Johnson switches of view, as.. maybe.. in this way.. he will become price minister. The interests for the country ?? The hack !

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

"Let's Take Back Control" which in its brilliant non-specificity, embraced the UK's laws, taxes, immigration, security and borders with only 4 words.

Remind the referendum of 5 June 1975: since then, no decision was made in the EU without a British (prime) minister agreed.

In the council of commissioners Always a British councillor was in, as of very EU member state.

In the EU parliament, 75 Bitish have a seat and voting rights.

 

Yes	17,378,581	67.23%
No	8,470,073	32.77%
Valid votes	25,848,654	99.79%
Invalid or blank votes	54,540	0.21%
Total votes	25,903,194	100.00%
Registered voters/turnout	40,086,677	64.62%

[puipuitom]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why are you telling me this, I already know. I just wish the EU would put the CD of Fleetwood Mac singing 'Go Your Own Way'

The EU does.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

You should reference stuff copied from elsewhere rather than try to pass it off as your own work.

So you do need a citation.

 

There are a couple of BBC articles where a 2016 one indicated where the Remainers lost the plot and a much more recent one about where the Brexiteers are getting it all wrong. You have obviously read them both as have many others. Now, please go back and read them again and tell us exactly where I "copied" the following.

 

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

It's always about the bus, eh? That's all the Remainers ever had.

 

When all this was kicking off so many years ago, the Remain camp couldn't come up with any single campaign promise that resonated like the Brexit camp's simple "Let's Take Back Control" which in its brilliant non-specificity, embraced the UK's laws, taxes, immigration, security and borders with only 4 words.

Now, where in the above did I claim that this was, as you put it, my "own work"? It's a comment in an online forum not thesis or opinion piece for the national bloody press. Did I preface any of my comments with "I think" or "In my opinion"?

 

Well? Did I?

 

Thanks for your enduring pedantry.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You bring the rope mate. I can tie the right knot!

Ah... Boy Scouts. How nice.

[Thingamabob]

7 hours ago, malagateddy said:

I'm a young minded 68 years young Brexiteer.
Jobs..why don't you ask the young people of Spain..Portugal..Italy that question
????
Travel..I remember filling in bit of paper in order to go to Bevidorm in late 60's re holiday travel.

 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Grow up for heaven's sake.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

A real coalition government

A quick squizz at wiki will show that even pre- and post- war British coalitions from Crimea to WWII have been a bit of a mixed bag that all start of with need for principled responses to mismanagement of wars and associated crises but ultimately the wheels still come off and it all ends badly for the incumbents.

 

Ruling out the recent Conservative tango with the Lib-Dems and the Tories current pseudo-coalition with the DUP, can you honestly see anyone on either side that would forfeit all that party pride and hubris to actually form a 'real coalition' to sort out this rather important matter? Even if May AND Corbyn stand down, can you name a single member of parliament on either side who you would see as being the right person(s) to jointly put this matter to bed?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

What is the advantage of new elections ? in the UK you have the choice between two big ones, Conservatives and Labour, and a few small ones, mostly even regional. So, with 40% of the votes in 50%+1 constituency you can form with only 20% of the electorate a majority government.

 

Second: each party is divided from remain to .. whatever consequence: leave.

 

Third: you might be in favour for one party, but.. against the voting behaviour of the representative of YOUR constituency, but .. for instance, completely agree with the candidate of YOUR party in the constituency next door, but.. there.. you cannot vote. Same when 90% of teh British electorate agree with those "Independant rebels": sorry only in those constituencies they can be re-elected.

Therefore: a voting system out of the 18^th century, in which every area wanted to be heard in Parliament… does not work for problems in the 21th century. But.. maybe the reason why… the mind of the British is still in a period centuries ago.

My opinion: only one solution: experience the (hard) Brexit for a couple of months, and then , after experienced the begging of the luxury /disaster, a referendum . Now the British can only agree, there is NO POINT of agreement at all. And.. do not have an idea, how the situation will be.

Bye-the-way: how you think the remaining 27 countries would treat the UK when still in the EU with any next EU vote: “you want to Brexit again ? “

 

You make several cogent points

 

I agree that FPtP is an arcane system well past its sell by date. Some form of PR would be much better. The Lib Dem/Con coalition had a referendum to change this. Im not sure if it was the type of PR (alternative vote?) that sunk the idea or people just did not understand. It would have a much better chance of success now. Maybe we should try for that before an election?

 

I liked Ken Clarke's expression of two "pre-packaged coalitions" to describe the two main parties. Let's unpackaged them. I like individuals in both parties, despise others and hate a few more. It would be interesting if they coalesced into the same party!

 

About the only thing that influences me to support any type of Brexit is that I am so embarrassed that I do not wish to inflict my brethren on the 27 anymore. Just like the returning jihadists, Farage is our problem and will be dealt with by us.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Whatever the outcome we are all worse off.  We can (and do) play the blame game every day but apart from the financial cost so far (which is significant) this has split the country, destroyed the credibility of our government and made us a laughing stock on the world stage.

Easy there Tonto...  SheungWan will want a citation for a fair bit of all that.

 

Especially the 'laughing stock' bit.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Come to experience the European continent. Your job is already here, your nurses and docters found a better job here, despite your £ 350 million per week for the NHS.

For import duties into the EU, see  https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

A LOT of Industrial output, e.g. cars: 10%. Confectionary 13,7%, and meat; seen vetrinary regulations; forget it.

In 1970 I hitch-hiked from Dover to Inverness. The £  was worth Hfl 10,64 ( /2,20 = € 4,828). Now it is a € 1,167 a 24% of then. The DM went from Hfl 0,90 to 1,12, an increase of 24%. So, donot worry about the increase of costs seen import duty into the EU: in no time, you succeed to bring down the £ to € 0,90 and are able to compete again. Oh.. your PURCHASING.. prices.. that's YOUR problem.

Not to go too far off topic, generally speaking, how did you find things in Inverness back in 1970?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I hope parties with people I can respect will hold the balance of power. Both the CONS and Corbyn will get hidings.

I used to have pretty respectable parties when mum and dad were away back in the 70's. Even the one the cops raided.

 

Twice.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Remind the referendum of 5 June 1975: since then, no decision was made in the EU without a British (prime) minister agreed.

 

In the council of commissioners Always a British councillor was in, as of very EU member state.

 

In the EU parliament, 75 Bitish have a seat and voting rights.

 

 

Yes	17,378,581	67.23%
No	8,470,073	32.77%
Valid votes	25,848,654	99.79%
Invalid or blank votes	54,540	0.21%
Total votes	25,903,194	100.00%
Registered voters/turnout	40,086,677	64.62%

 

Let me talk to the British farmers and fishermen on that one and let me get back to you, ok?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

The EU does.

Really?

 

Then why has Donald Tusk done gone and tweeted this?

 

“In view of the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement by the House of Commons, I have decided to call a European Council on 10 April. Brexit,”

 

Note for SheungWan. There's a hyperlinked citation in there.

 

 

[mike787]

I can guarantee everyone...Brexit WILL figure itself out.  With or without our help.  Trust me.  They cannot hear our TVF narrative.  And if they did, you really think they would apply it?  Come on....

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, mike787 said:

I can guarantee everyone...Brexit WILL figure itself out.  With or without our help.  Trust me.  They cannot hear our TVF narrative.  And if they did, you really think they would apply it?  Come on....

With or without your post too, it is a forum where members discuss topics, you are not obliged to join in the conversation if you don't want to.

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Michel Barnier has just announced that "if the UK wants to leave the EU in an orderly manner, the withdrawal agreement is and will be the only option"

and?

nothing new here, that is the way it has been for quite a long time

[Rally123]

4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Obviously you are old and don't care to destroy the future of the young ones. I call it selfish. At least 

The EU ruined my past as It's really gave the UK nothing. Hence why the majority voted Brexit. 40 odd years of living within the EU and the majority of voters tell you it's time to leave. Does that not tell you something????

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

and?

nothing new here, that is the way it has been for quite a long time

Well it was Breaking News, just thought I'd share it, sorry it didn't have the impact on you that I'd hoped for.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

A quick squizz at wiki will show that even pre- and post- war British coalitions from Crimea to WWII have been a bit of a mixed bag that all start of with need for principled responses to mismanagement of wars and associated crises but ultimately the wheels still come off and it all ends badly for the incumbents.

 

Ruling out the recent Conservative tango with the Lib-Dems and the Tories current pseudo-coalition with the DUP, can you honestly see anyone on either side that would forfeit all that party pride and hubris to actually form a 'real coalition' to sort out this rather important matter? Even if May AND Corbyn stand down, can you name a single member of parliament on either side who you would see as being the right person(s) to jointly put this matter to bed?

All fair points, but coalition governments ARE successful elsewhere. Historically, coalitions have been forced upon us. If it was the norm, it may be different.

 

Right now we have the weakest crop of MPs that I can ever recall. Hardly a single statesman among them. WE really need to take more of an interest and much more care who we choose as our MPs. Now people understand that MPs are not there, just to convey the decisions of a majority of the constituents, people may take more care.

 

I like Burkian representative democracy but one must select suitable people to represent you.

 

Man of the match during this farrago is Blackford. I have no time for anyone on either of the front benches. Caroline Lucas has been good. Vince is passed it; could even whip his few MPs into line. Chuka Umunna is good and so is Hilary Benn. I'm a big fan of speaker Bercow. Spreadsheet is a good Chancillor. Nick Boles should have been a rising star for the CONs. JRM is impressive, I just don't care for his outlook; sound parliamentarian though. Ken Clarke is excellent as he should be with all that experience. Joanna Cherry will lead the SNP one day. Yvette Cooper is energetic but a bit austere for me. Dominic Grieve would be my choice for solicitor general. Oliver Letwin impresses. 

 

Overall, not an impressive crowd compared to the last 5 decades that I have taken an interest.

 

I'd vote for Gina Miller for PM

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

JHB explains the 'c' word(s):

 

Yes we should replace the relevant C word, it is rude however accurate it might be. A good R word to replace it with would be Raving, as in raving nutter.

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Well it was Breaking News, just thought I'd share it, sorry it didn't have the impact on you that I'd hoped for.

are you joking or serious?

braking news?

 

UK population learning to today that the options are

revoke a50

possible long prolongation

no-deal

may-deal

 

Barnier opts to call may-deal only orderly way of leaving

other people may have different views on that

 

this is the way it has been for quite some time

 

I fail to see the news bit

 

[brewsterbudgen]

All fair points, but coalition governments ARE successful elsewhere. Historically, coalitions have been forced upon us. If it was the norm, it may be different.
 
Right now we have the weakest crop of MPs that I can ever recall. Hardly a single statesman among them. WE really need to take more of an interest and much more care who we choose as our MPs. Now people understand that MPs are not there, just to convey the decisions of a majority of the constituents, people may take more care.
 
I like Burkian representative democracy but one must select suitable people to represent you.
 
Man of the match during this farrago is Blackford. I have no time for anyone on either of the front benches. Caroline Lucas has been good. Vince is passed it; could even whip his few MPs into line. Chuka Umunna is good and so is Hilary Benn. I'm a big fan of speaker Bercow. Spreadsheet is a good Chancillor. Nick Boles should have been a rising star for the CONs. JRM is impressive, I just don't care for his outlook; sound parliamentarian though. Ken Clarke is excellent as he should be with all that experience. Joanna Cherry will lead the SNP one day. Yvette Cooper is energetic but a bit austere for me. Dominic Grieve would be my choice for solicitor general. Oliver Letwin impresses. 
 
Overall, not an impressive crowd compared to the last 5 decades that I have taken an interest.
 
I'd vote for Gina Miller for PM
 
 

Gina Miller is a class act and if it wasn't for her, we would already be out of the EU. Gina for PM would be my choice too.

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