Philippines 2019 for new expats

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

In Cebu city both Chong Hua (probably best known) and Doctors Hospital are considered good facilities - but again will not be as modern as Bangkok hospitals (although Chong Hua has opened a second facility in the eastern part of city which is not heavily used and appears to be more modern).  Believe if you have the money you can get the care.  

 

When it comes to this kind of stuff, I'm less interested in the facility per se, and whether it's shiny and new vs old and not so shiny...

 

But instead...

#1. How skilled and knowledgeable are the doctors at diagnosing and treatment?  I.e., can you find and patronize smart and effective doctors?

 

#2. What's the availability of the necessary medicines and treatment/diagnostic tools (like CAT scanners, etc) to allow them to do their profession?

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[PingRoundTheWorld]

17 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Will ur decision to relocate to the Philippines solely depend on the presence of a bum gun? 

Yes! Fortunately however, all hotels and condos I've seen (many) had them. Even Manila airport has them (unlike BKK airports!).

[ExpatPH]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But I must say, of everything said and discussed in this thread thus far, the issue that was the PH killer for me was your summary and description of medical care in the PH. I think the other cons I could learn to live with and/or adjust to. But the absence of available, decent quality medical care for me just sinks it -- but you're obviously in a different place on that issue.

 

 

A close friend of mine moved to Singapore, because he experienced that local health care was not good enough. He had cancer late stage, and he leared the hard way the lack of quality, and care. He would not take the risk to suffer in the very last months of his life. He had been admitted to the area #1 private hospital here.

 

My medical condition are different from his, so my

last weeks and days will probably be less painful, so I continue stay here.

 

CT and MRI scan are available in the best private hospitals here.

My opinion after been admitted to hospitals, is that the doctors here are good, but not great or excellent. Lack of medication, lack of follow up, lack of nurses who drop by patient every 1-2 hour.

Cambodia and Vietnam also got lots of negative critics, regarding quality of hospitals, doctors and care.

[ExpatPH]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's a fairly different portrayal than what Expat summarized in his main medical care post early in this thread.

 

I have no personal experience on that particular subject, so I'm relying on him or you or others who are closer to it than me.

 

If your comment is accurate -- "If you have insurance believe you can obtain good medical service in major cities. including Cebu" -- then I'd have a different opinion. But that seems a very different summary from the one Expat laid out.

 

I have pretty good private medical insurance I've always paid for in Thailand -- wouldn't live here without it. And would be of the same mind if I was ever to end up in the Phils.  But the question remains, what kind of medical care do I have the potential to get with that insurance and how broadly is it available (in other words, gotta go to Manilla, or can be had in outlying cities like Cebu)...

 

What I already wrote here was from my personal experience when admitted to a few hospitals.

 

To Lopburi3:

 

When was your last visit to Philippines?

When was the last time you was admitted to a hospital here, and was it a serious condition and diagnose?

 

[lopburi3]

14 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

 

What I already wrote here was from my personal experience when admitted to a few hospitals.

 

To Lopburi3:

 

When was your last visit to Philippines?

When was the last time you was admitted to a hospital here, and was it a serious condition and diagnose?

 

I thought I had clearly stated I did not have experience in hospitals of Philippines (although lived there 5 years in the past).  I base my post on what I have read currently from others and checking on facilities on internet, including youtube videos and tried to present as such; my opinion.  It was not intended to say you were wrong in your opinion - just that my take is a bit different.  I have also not used facilities in Cambodia but would consider them lower than Philippines from reporting I have read.  And yes I likely will die of cancer also and do not expect the quality of Thai hospitals to make much of a difference.

[ExpatPH]

I have a international expat insurance with high limit. It cost me a fortune per year, but I hope it will be paying off when I need it.

The problem is that many private hospitals only accept local insurer.

#1 private hospital do not accept my international expat insurance.

 

 

[ExpatPH]

7 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I thought I had clearly stated I did not have experience in hospitals of Philippines (although lived there 5 years in the past).  I base my post on what I have read currently from others and checking on facilities on internet, including youtube videos and tried to present as such; my opinion.  It was not intended to say you were wrong in your opinion - just that my take is a bit different.  I have also not used facilities in Cambodia but would consider them lower than Philippines from reporting I have read.  And yes I likely will die of cancer also and do not expect the quality of Thai hospitals to make much of a difference.

 

Thanks for your clarification.

Edited April 7, 2019 by ExpatPH

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

I have a international expat insurance with high limit. It cost me a fortune per year, but I hope it will be paying off when I need it.

The problem is that many private hospitals only accept local insurer.

#1 private hospital do not accept my international expat insurance.

 

Re not accepting intl insurance, are you talking about the #1 private hospital in Manila, or the top private in Cebu?

 

Quote

The problem is that many private hospitals only accept local insurer.

 

Expat, I think you or someone mentioned Pacific Cross earlier.... I have a Pacific Cross Thailand policy with pretty much worldwide cover, except for a few exceptions like the U.S. It sounds like they have an affiliate in Phils, as I know they operate in several other Asian countries as well.

 

I wonder if your local hospitals would accept my Pac Cross TH policy as a local one because of that..... I know my Pacific Cross TH policy would include coverage in the Phils, if the hospitals there would accept it.

 

BTW, these kinds of insurance acceptance issues, if correct, would potentially add another killer strike for me regarding PHs, above and beyond the previously discussed issues of medical care quality and availability.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mike787]

17 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

In Cebu city both Chong Hua (probably best known) and Doctors Hospital are considered good facilities - but again will not be as modern as Bangkok hospitals (although Chong Hua has opened a second facility in the eastern part of city which is not heavily used and appears to be more modern).  Believe if you have the money you can get the care.  

I have dealt first hand with both of those facilities in Cebu.  The training and standards in terms of medical training are far bellow what you would experience compared to Bumrungrad or Bangkok hospital. 

[ExpatPH]

To TallGuyJohninBKK

You do excellent thorough research of alternative destinations. 

 

Banks and ATM in PH as one example. On paper is seems OK, when you 'in country', you realize how unreliable they are, how often they dont return card or give money, how often they are offline.  You strictly follow seasoned expats advice what ATM to use.

Imagine you insert your Visa Master card, and the ATM dont return the card. All banks later return cards to issuer bank, worldwide.

You have to cancel old card and order a new card from home, and it will take 2 weeks before DHL deliver it.

We don't dare try out any other ATM, unless it comes with approval from another expat. Very few ATM comes with expat approval, why many of us are willing to travel to one ATM we can trust, and mostly online.

ATM might have Cirrus Visa Master logo, still when you insert card, nothing happen, card are kept, or returned but no money. Those who work mostly have limit 10000php only 190$. I would not spend time repeat this, unless this is a real issue for us.

Expats open local bank account, so we seldom need to use our Visa card anymore, it becomes a back up if we need instant cash, rather than wait 1-2 day for bank online transfer to arrive in local account.

Open local bank account, transfer online, avoid these problems.

 

Hospitals, doctors, care are another example.

On paper they seem good. What is does not tell you, is how overloaded private hospitals are, same all public hospitals. It does not tell you lack of nurses in hospitals, in a country with 400.000+ unemployed licensed nurses.

Private hospitals here are strictly business, more than in TH, with strong control on expences, and are run with a bare minimum of doctors and nurses.

 

#1 private hospital in Cebu do not accept international expat insurance anymore, only local insurer. This I got directly from their office.

 

Pacific cross PH is recommended by expats as the best local insurer. Since its expats #1 local insurer, I would assume that some of the top private hospitals accept it, direct billing not sure, so this is 2nd hand info.

 

Email Pacific Cross PH for accurat list of hospital they have direct billing with. Think #2 in Cebu is on their list.

Email Pacific Cross TH, they will give you spesific answers 1st hand. 

Sorry I can't be more spesific since I use Intl insurance, for higher limits and broader coverage, than Pacific Cross.

 

[ExpatPH]

Insurance acceptance issues is something i have been working on last year, because I got confusing answers when email hospitals and insurers.

#1 private hospital Cebu said they dont accept anymore, did in the past. I was shown a short list they accept, all was local insurers.

I assume Intl insurer will honor claim afterwards, but shorten the bill, since private hospitals in Cebu has very high rates.

 

#2 private hospital Cebu said they do accept some International insurance, incl direct billing. When I asked for a list of insurance they do accept, I could not get it.

I then requested my Intl insurance company for a list of PH hospitals they accept, and Cebu #2 private hospital was on their list, including direct billing. Also some top Manila private hospitals.

 

Due to unclear what hospital and who cover what, seasoned expats adviced me to have Philhealth and 1-2 mill peso in savings, for hospital expences.

They added that they would fly to Thailand instantly for most serious conditions, if possible.

 

Regarding Pacific Cross, I think they exclude cancer, don't they?

 

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Re not accepting intl insurance, are you talking about the #1 private hospital in Manila, or the top private in Cebu?

 

 

Expat, I think you or someone mentioned Pacific Cross earlier.... I have a Pacific Cross Thailand policy with pretty much worldwide cover, except for a few exceptions like the U.S. It sounds like they have an affiliate in Phils, as I know they operate in several other Asian countries as well.

 

I wonder if your local hospitals would accept my Pac Cross TH policy as a local one because of that..... I know my Pacific Cross TH policy would include coverage in the Phils, if the hospitals there would accept it.

 

BTW, these kinds of insurance acceptance issues, if correct, would potentially add another killer strike for me regarding PHs, above and beyond the previously discussed issues of medical care quality and availability.

 

Nobody is even trying to convince u to relocate to the Phillipines . Enjoy the 5 star Thai hospitals with their double and triple pricing for farangs and where at most only the cashiers can speak a few words of English. if that’s important to you.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Nobody is even trying to convince u to relocate to the Phillipines . Enjoy the 5 star Thai hospitals with their double and triple pricing for farangs and where at most only the cashiers can speak a few words of English. if that’s important to you.

 

 

I wasn't criticizing the PH or the expats who live there or who are considering moving there.

 

I was just saying, for me personally, access to quality and affordable medical care is an important consideration for wherever I might live. The absence of that, for me, is a killer.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

I have dealt first hand with both of those facilities in Cebu.  The training and standards in terms of medical training are far bellow what you would experience compared to Bumrungrad or Bangkok hospital. 

 

But I think the bottom line question is, with your experience, would you go to either of those two hospitals in Cebu and feel comfortable being treated there for something more than a minor and/or obvious medical problem? And would they accept your insurance for payment? What's the bottom line verdict?

 

Just by comparison, here in Thailand, I rarely go to either Bumrungrad or Bangkok Hospitals. But there are other, mid range and mid price hospitals where IMHO you can get perfectly decent care from good, competent doctors at a reasonable price, especially if you pick your doctors carefully.

 

Also, I rarely run into any issues about availability of routine medicines (though I know some cutting-edge U.S. stuff isn't available here)... And insurance acceptance by the private hospitals is NOT a problem. So, that's all I need....

Edited April 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Destiny1990]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I wasn't criticizing the PH or the expats who live there or who are considering moving there.

 

I was just saying, for me personally, access to quality and affordable medical care is an important consideration for wherever I might live. The absence of that, for me, is a killer.

 

If u break a leg or so than they can mend it for u and in perfect English and without triple billing in comparison with Thailand . In case of a severe very complicated desease i would neither put my faith in a Thai or a Phillipines hospital but would fly back home to get treatment.

 

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, ExpatPH said:

I have a international expat insurance with high limit. It cost me a fortune per year, but I hope it will be paying off when I need it.

The problem is that many private hospitals only accept local insurer.

#1 private hospital do not accept my international expat insurance.

 

 

So would have to pay up-front for service and then make a claim back for insurance payback (which could take months)?  Have same issues in Thailand - and hospital may take one year and stop at any time (been there).  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

50 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

Regarding Pacific Cross, I think they exclude cancer, don't they?

 

 

Expat, thanks for the elaboration above re medical insurance and acceptance there... Very helpful, as have been all of your posts/contributions to this thread.

 

As for your question above, obviously, I have a Pacific Cross TH policy, not a Pacific Cross PH policy, and I have no way of knowing if they are the same or not. Also, Pacific Cross offers several different levels/prices of policies. Mine happens to be their upper-mid range Maxima policy.

 

So with those caveats, in looking at my policy, I noticed under outpatient coverage that it specifically includes chemotherapy and radiation treatments. And I don't see anything relating to cancer and such as an entry under the "general exclusions" exceptions.

 

The general exclusions stuff includes things like: checkups, vaccinations, AIDS and STDs, injuries from DUI or committing crimes, attempted suicide, hunting, conditions that pre-existed when the coverage was begun, vastectomy, plastic surgery, substance abuse rehab, dangerous sports, etc etc.

 

PS - I do know there are some OTHER Thai medical insurance policies that do specifically exclude cancer, even when it is diagnosed AFTER the policy has been in force.

Edited April 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ExpatPH]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But I think the bottom line question is, with your experience, would you go to either of those two hospitals in Cebu and feel comfortable being treated there for something more than a minor and/or obvious medical problem? And would they accept your insurance for payment? What's the bottom line verdict?

 

 

Bottom line;

Minor conditions I trust the hospitals here.

For heart by-pass, and other serious dangerous terminal illness required treatment, there is NO WAY I would trust hospitals here.

If possible, I would be on first flight to 

1. Singapore.

2. Thailand.

 

Personally:

My present medical conditions option is a big surgery, ICU, bed for a month, maybe never able to leave my bed.

After consultations with best hospitals in 2 countries, who highlighted high risk for multiple heart attacks and death, I have come to peace with my condition, and don't risk a operation that might take my life anyway, or become bedridden my remaining time.

 

Bottom line:

Cebu #2 private hospital do accept my Intl expat insurance, so thats my option so far, but only for non life threatening conditions.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

seasoned expats adviced me to have Philhealth and 1-2 mill peso in savings, for hospital expences.

 

So, do you have any ability to comment on how easy or not it is for expats there to get a Philhealth policy as a new arriver, how inclusive the coverage offered is, and at what kind of premium prices?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, ExpatPH said:

Bottom line:

Cebu #2 private hospital do accept my Intl expat insurance, so thats my option so far, but only for non life threatening conditions.

 

Which hospital are you referring to above?

 

[ExpatPH]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

I have dealt first hand with both of those facilities in Cebu.  The training and standards in terms of medical training are far bellow what you would experience compared to Bumrungrad or Bangkok hospital. 

 

+1 Spot on.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ExpatPH said:

Banks and ATM in PH as one example. On paper is seems OK, when you 'in country', you realize how unreliable they are, how often they dont return card or give money, how often they are offline.  You strictly follow seasoned expats advice what ATM to use.

 

That's why I consider your advice here so valuable. The way things are supposed to work, or said to work, either in places like TH or the PH is not necessarily how they actually work in real life.  So direct, first-hand experience is so helpful.

 

I just wanted to call to your attention what the Visa and MC card networks were reporting, and see if you had any experience with what they say. And obviously, you do!

 

PS - I certainly concur, one of the last things you want to have happen as an expat is to have an ATM machine eat/swallow the home country bank card that you rely on for obtaining your funds and making POS purchases, because the replacement time and hassle can be considerable.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ExpatPH]

32 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

So would have to pay up-front for service and then make a claim back for insurance payback (which could take months)?  Have same issues in Thailand - and hospital may take one year and stop at any time (been there).  

 

Yes, that would be the case in most hospitals here.

 

And that is a bad option, after read reviews of international insurers, my own included. I worry they would not honor some / many insurance claims later on.

 

I aim only for direct billing with ahead approval, to avoid claim be denied.

 

I always try to play it safe, regarding Insurance, banks, ATM's, and visa.

 

[ExpatPH]

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So, do you have any ability to comment on how easy or not it is for expats there to get a Philhealth policy as a new arriver, how inclusive the coverage offered is, and at what kind of premium prices?

 

 

All foreigners can get PhilHealth. I have it too for minor things. Foreigner only need passport, and 310$ per year, can pay either for 3 - 6 - 12 months. 

It's a basic insurance that one 'must have' before be admitted to hospital, or 300-500$ cash to be admitted in hospital.

PhilHealth pays +- 30% of your total bill, so its a bare basic local insurance. 

If you have intl insurance with direct billing, one doesnt need PhilHealth.

Still expats recommend it, for minor conditions.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

PhilHealth pays +- 30% of your total bill, so its a bare basic local insurance. 

 

 

$300+ a year premium for local insurance that only pays about 30% of your bill?  Hmmmm.......

 

Hey Expat, just for comparison purposes, what the general price of just a routine doctor office visit at the private Cubu hospitals you've been talking about? Meaning including doctor visit fee, nursing charge, facility charge, etc etc?

 

Here in Thailand, at a midrange private hospital in BKK, you can have a basic doctor visit for about 1000 baht or $30 U.S. all in (not including any medicines or treatments). If you want to talk about the top end privates, that amount probably moves closer to 2000b or $65 U.S. (again, just to walk in the door and be seen).

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ExpatPH]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

$300+ a year premium for local insurance that only pays about 30% of your bill?  Hmmmm.......

 

Hey Expat, just for comparison purposes, what the general price of just a routine doctor office visit at the private Cubu hospitals you've been talking about? Meaning including doctor visit fee, nursing charge, facility charge, etc etc?

 

Here in Thailand, at a midrange private hospital in BKK, you can have a basic doctor visit for about 1000 baht or $30 U.S. all in (not including any medicines or treatments). If you want to talk about the top end privates, that amount probably moves closer to 2000b or $65 U.S. (again, just to walk in the door and be seen).

 

 

Quick 5 min doctor visit 500 peso or 10$ incl prescription. No meds.

 

Longer 10-15 min doctor visit, examination, 1000 - 1500 peso or 20-30$

 

Treatment for diarrhea admitted overnight 2000-2500 peso or 40-50$

 

Admitted to hospital for more serious condition expect 15000 - 25000 per 24 hrs  300-500$ per day.

 

Friends Traffic accident, operation arms and legs, ICU 2 weeks, normal hospital room for 1 week, 3 weeks total was 2.2 mill Peso or 43.000$ 

 

Unless its emergency, can take considerable time to get a doctor appointment. We once waited from 9am until 4pm in waiting room when I finally got into doctors office.

 

Doctors always run a private practice as well, here access to doctor within 1-3 hrs. In province the waiting line start early morning, and by the time doc arrive 6pm, he has 40-50 patients waiting.

 

One sure learn to be patient here, and ones health becomes #1 to watch out for.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

Quick 5 min doctor visit 500 peso or 10$ incl prescription. No meds.

 

Longer 10-15 min doctor visit, examination, 1000 - 1500 peso or 20-30$

 

So are those prices you're quoting above for a doctor outpatient visit in a private hospital,

or

a doctor visit at the doctor's private practice,

or

same either way?

 

[ExpatPH]

4 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

I stopped reading at 'No smoking...' ????‍♂️????‍♂️

I would expect it from hi-tech/rich/totalitarian Singapore but not from a basketcase like the Phils.

One of the reasons we relocated to the turd-world is the relative freedom we have here viv-a-vis the nanny state, PC West.

 

Btw...is it true that anyone can 'denounce' you to the police for not being of good character or some such canard?

...and the police is obliged to take action? 

 

When the President stopped smoking = new law:  No smoking in public.

Enuff said.

 

2  Yes. And they do it. Its not uncommon to receive verbal threaths here. At first, one get chock and stress. Over time, one just laugh in silence later, because 99,9% of the time, it's just a threat. 

Be accused of rape, also occur, most cases declined after investigation. 

I report you to immigration, is the most used threat here.  I lost count, long time ago.

Police here are better than a first timer would believe. They received a long awaited 400% salary increase, so now they even better, now they're motivated to work hard. Towards foreigners they are very friendly, curious and helpful. No complaints from me.

[ExpatPH]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So are those prices you're quoting above for a doctor outpatient visit in a private hospital,

or

a doctor visit at the doctor's private practice,

or

same either way?

 

 

Same similar rates.

 

[Destiny1990]

Whats aggravates me in Phillipines are those millions of jeepnies with their toxic 40 years old diesel engines killing poisining all pedestrians. Look at Cebu the real problem is lack of money. U get taxed for everything in Phillipines much more then in Thailand however the government there is always broke??

They make many beautiful infrastructure plans on computer animation screen for 200 pesos but thats it.

why Cebu doesnt have a BTS from Bantayan all the way till Badian etc? It will come but by that time we are all death and forgotten. Third bridge to lapu2x supposed to be ready 2 years ago hiwever construction started 4 months ago takes 4-5 more years.etc

a dangerous crossing instead of fixing that crossing they just block a whole street its a problem because now all traffic is stuck forever but the dangerous crossing situation  is fixed according to them..

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Destiny1990