My 10th retirement visa renewal

[Kelsall]

On 4/6/2019 at 9:05 PM, from the home of CC said:

 

Sorry, don't see it that way at all. There's been lots of threads about western importance monetarily to Thailand over the years and the evidence I saw  just doesn't support that view. Especially when you consider how diluted so many currencies have become, I think many people here are just scrambling to make ends meet rather than contributing to Thailand's economy (re investment). As far as employment in the tourism sector, Chinese two weekers and a host of other Asian nations will keep that industry alive forever. I also feel that just because we don't read a lot about significant criminality here perpetrated by westerners, doesn't mean it isn't occurring. Due to poor wages corruptibility is easily accomplished enabling a lot of scumbags to act with impunity and invisibility. I do believe, after spending the best part of 16yrs here, that there is some progress being made regards to that.      

Agree.  When I first came here 20 years ago we were God's gift to the economy and to Thai women.  No longer.  Younger men from Korea, China, the middle east have taken over those roles and they bring lots of money to the country.  Then there are the standard Chinese tourists who bring in loads of money.  The Thais appear to be tired of a bunch of cheap old retired men bellyaching about the cost of everything.  And yes, there is criminal activity by westerners here in Thailand.

[watcharacters]

On 4/5/2019 at 9:01 PM, Jingthing said:

I'm learning Spanish.

 

The new Thai IO language?   

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Most of those being denied visa extensions have more money in the bank, and make more monthly income than the immigration officers forcing them to leave Thailand.  That folks is a fact ????

An irrelevant one, but a fact, nonetheless. 

[phutoie2]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Immigration don't ask personal questions and never look me in the eyes.

They are only interested in the bank balance and not what  you wear.

 

Ditto, these bods who go on about being correctly dressed live in a different Thailand to moi.

I constantly come across scruffy herberts in banks, amphurs, IOs and they do not appear to have any problems doing their business.

Last week in my local IO an elderly Viking was dressed in shorts, vest, sandals. I was going to say have you just come from the beach, but he looked about 130kg.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

The Thais appear to be tired of a bunch of cheap old retired men bellyaching about the cost of everything. 

I take it you have not spoken to working-class people in the tourist industry, who deal with different nationalities?  They have a very different view about of our most voluminous "replacements."

 

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

And yes, there is criminal activity by westerners here in Thailand.

Western crime involvement in Thailand is tiny, per capita.  Crime is always higher among groups with lower-income legitimate economic opportunities.  In Thailand, that isn't us.

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, wilailuk said:

Gained by kicking him out? Hahahaha! Personally I would like a deep clean of all Euro/US Cheap Charlie trash, let them party somewhere else, morons!

The ones immigration thinks of as "Cheap Charlies" are those doing in-person honest applications in order to avoid paying more than 1900 Baht.

 

The guys blowing money on women and liquor in bars are far from 'cheap' spenders - and are not the ones being targeted by immigration to be driven-out.

Edited April 9, 2019 by JackThompson

[watcharacters]

On 4/6/2019 at 6:47 PM, Jim7777 said:

any of us go broke and homeless then we become their responsibility.

When did his program begin?

[Joe Mcseismic]

16 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

So, they judge a book by its cover.

 

What if such a person you describe parties hard every night at Nana Plaza, on the drink, and the women, because he can afford to? 

 

What is gained by kicking him out of the country? 

Yes, they do, but, it's not like they hide it.

Outside every immigration office is a sign requesting people to wear appropriate dress.

 

Try showing up at a job interview in T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. It isn't about "judging a book by it's cover" it's about showing respect.

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes, they do, but, it's not like they hide it.

Outside every immigration office is a sign requesting people to wear appropriate dress.

 

Try showing up at a job interview in T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. It isn't about "judging a book by it's cover" it's about showing respect.

At Jomtien, most people are wearing shorts, t-shirts, and sandals. Never a problem. So different norms in different places. But even there, there are limits, for example no sleeveless shirts, bikinis, bottomless leather chaps, etc. No sex please, we're Thai!

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jingthing

[Joe Mcseismic]

Must admit, Phuket immigration used to turn away people not dressed "appropriately", now, not so much. Also lots of shorts and T-shirts. I always wear jeans and a shirt.

[Number 6]

Move to Bangkok. Problem solved.

[Dumbastheycome]

23 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

So, it comes down to character, and not about meeting the requirements.  Perhaps even if the immigration officer had a shag that morning.  ????

Not so much about character as such. Meeting the requirements with an appropriate  attitude yes.

That you or I or the IO had a shag is irrelevant to the equation except perhaps to yourself.

But presenting as  some  cocksure individual who assumes is untouchable because routine morning delight is an antidote  to bureaucratic process is a dangerous mindset.

 

[CMNightRider]

22 hours ago, wilailuk said:

Of course they do, all Thai´s do that, it´s called "face" - or surface, what´s inside is not important..

 

Gained by kicking him out? Hahahaha! Personally I would like a deep clean of all Euro/US Cheap Charlie trash, let them party somewhere else, morons!

 

 

The majority of expats being forced to leave Thailand over Thai Immigrations latest nonsensical requirements are not "Cheap Charlie trash."  Many are married to Thai's, have homes and own condos in Thailand.  Many travel extensively and use Thailand as a home base.

 

It probably makes you feel superior by making this smug comment but if anyone is a moron it is the smug posters amusing themselves at the misfortune of others. 

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

At Jomtien, most people are wearing shorts, t-shirts, and sandals.

The odds are you might be enduring a spell queuing for the front desk which is a bottle neck, and that queue has been known to stretch well out into the car-park. Dressing like John Hurt in Rob Roy just isn't suitable. Particularly this time of year, it is 35 DegC already at my place.

[Thailand Outcast]

On 4/9/2019 at 5:49 PM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes, they do, but, it's not like they hide it.

Outside every immigration office is a sign requesting people to wear appropriate dress.

 

Try showing up at a job interview in T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. It isn't about "judging a book by it's cover" it's about showing respect.

I know we are guests in this country, but as foreigners here, how much "respect" do you think we receive?  I'll tell you, zero.

 

Respect is a two way street.

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I know we are guests in this country, but as foreigners here, how much "respect" do you think we receive?  I'll tell you, zero.

 

Respect is a two way street.

Sorry, I don't look at it that way at all. I don't consider myself "a guest", I consider myself as a consumer. And just like every consumer, if you're not happy with the product, you can stop using it and switch to another brand.

[Thailand Outcast]

22 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Not so much about character as such. Meeting the requirements with an appropriate  attitude yes.

That you or I or the IO had a shag is irrelevant to the equation except perhaps to yourself.

But presenting as  some  cocksure individual who assumes is untouchable because routine morning delight is an antidote  to bureaucratic process is a dangerous mindset.

 

I don't present as a cocksure individual, I present meeting the requirements, and paying the fee.

 

The difference between me and you is, I actually don't feel I have to beg to stay in Thailand.

 

I scoped out my Plan B a long time ago, in preparation for this day.  If they let me stay, great, I will continue staying and being happy here.

 

If they want to complicate my life, and try manipulate my finances, then I will leave, and come back as much as possible on tourist visas.  It's no problem to me.  Thailand is not the be all and end all.

 

Now, that said, it has been posted an agent in Pattaya is charging 15,000 baht.  If that's the case, and 15k to 20k is around the going rate, that's a cheap visa, just as cheap as Cambodia and Vietnam, and I don't have to do anything, go anywhere, or see anybody.  

 

This will have the effect of making people on the 800k / 400k method, who have to front up at immigration, showing "respect" look like they are wasting their time, cause they sure have wasted their money using that method.

 

So, I have some time to see how it plays out with the agents, but if they are allowed to continue, and it appears these new laws were designed for that purpose, it ctually could make my visa here easier, and I don't have to ever see an immigration officer again, let alone worry about what I wear when I attend their their office.  ????

[Thailand Outcast]

13 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Sorry, I don't look at it that way at all. I don't consider myself "a guest", I consider myself as a consumer. And just like every consumer, if you're not happy with the product, you can stop using it and switch to another brand.

I agree. 

 

So what's all the chest beating about you showing Thai's more respect than others?  Who really cares?

 

You have gone from "respect" to "consumer."  Quite a change. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Joe Mcseismic]

8 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I agree. 

 

So what's all the chest beating about you showing Thai's more respect than others?  Who really cares?

 

You have gone from "respect" to "consumer."  Quite a change. 

No, what I said about the signage outside immigration requesting appropriate clothing, plus turning up at an interview for a job in good clothes is about "showing" respect, because both immigration and a prospective employer desire that. As you want something from immigration and a prospective employer, you play the game, only a fool wouldn't. Whether you "actually" respect them has nothing to do with it.

How come you can't come to these simple conclusions yourself? They seem pretty obvious to me.......

Edited April 10, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[Thailand Outcast]

14 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No, what I said about the signage outside immigration requesting appropriate clothing, plus turning up at an interview for a job in good clothes is about "showing" respect, because both immigration and a prospective employer desire that. As you want something from immigration and a prospective employer, you play the game, only a fool wouldn't. Whether you "actually" respect them has nothing to do with it.

How come you can't come to these simple conclusions yourself? They seem pretty obvious to me.......

 

Well, it's difficult to respect such corrupt authorities here. 

 

See Post 167.

 

it's because I don't actually care anymore if they don't give me what I want. 

 

For me, from now on, I will be using agents, and not have to deal with anyone in authority anymore, except for a 5 year license renewal, but that's nothing.

 

If the agents cease operating, I'm off to Vietnam, and will come back on tourist visas as much as I can.  I figure about 6 months of the year, on and off. 

 

If I have to leave, I'll leave those left behind in Thailand to either grovel, or pay over the odds with 800k, for their visas. 

 

Just on this topic.  Thailand is a holiday and retiree destination.  What's wrong with an older foreign guy, who has worked hard all his life, and now calls Thailand home, calling into immigration on the way to the beach?  Isn't that the good vibe Thailand should be projecting?  The vibe they had in the past.  Easy going.  Laid back.  Friendly?  What happened to that? 

[Joe Mcseismic]

18 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

 

Well, it's difficult to respect such corrupt authorities here. 

 

See Post 167.

 

it's because I don't actually care anymore if they don't give me what I want. 

 

For me, from now on, I will be using agents, and not have to deal with anyone in authority anymore, except for a 5 year license renewal, but that's nothing.

 

If the agents cease operating, I'm off to Vietnam, and will come back on tourist visas as much as I can.  I figure about 6 months of the year, on and off. 

 

If I have to leave, I'll leave those left behind in Thailand to either grovel, or pay over the odds with 800k, for their visas. 

 

Just on this topic.  Thailand is a holiday and retiree destination.  What's wrong with an older foreign guy, who has worked hard all his life, and now calls Thailand home, calling into immigration on the way to the beach?  Isn't that the good vibe Thailand should be projecting?  The vibe they had in the past.  Easy going.  Laid back.  Friendly?  What happened to that? 

Nobody is asking you to respect the corrupt authorities here. Just for one day per year fake it.

Don't think grovelling actually happens and if it does, I doubt it would do any good. If you don't like the 800k method, there are plenty of alternatives.

Frankly, for me, the cost of staying in Thailand is tiny compared to all the benefits I get from having a fantastic life here.

[marcusarelus]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:47 PM, CMNightRider said:

Most of those being denied visa extensions have more money in the bank, and make more monthly income than the immigration officers forcing them to leave Thailand.  That folks is a fact ????

Every millionaire has more money than the tax people who audit them every year.  That folks is a fact too.  You would think everyone would be used to bureaucratic nonsense by now but you seem to think it is confined to Thailand.  It's everywhere, it's everywhere.  Get over it.  

[marcusarelus]

On 4/6/2019 at 5:51 PM, possum1931 said:

The times I have been on retirement exts I have always paid an agent to do my 90 day reports because of the hostile attitude of the IOs, other times I have had the visa based on marriage, whatever you call it, on work permits, and before that on tourists visas leaving the country every 90 days.

I may try and do the reports online, but do not believe it is as easy as it sounds. I just cannot think of anything at all that the Thai government has ever made easier for us.

 

Your problems are all in your attitude.  It is so easy to see.  Have someone you trust read your posts.  There is nothing difficult about a 90 day report.  I have done 80 of them all over Thailand. 

 

The Thai government made it easy for me to do 90 day reports and retire in Thailand 20 years ago and it's still easy today.  It is you not us.  I'd have told you 20 years ago to not do a marriage extension and not take your wife to Immigration.  You'd have had no problems.  Isn't obvious at some offices they don't like to do marriage extensions?  

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Your problems are all in your attitude.  It is so easy to see.  Have someone you trust read your posts.  There is nothing difficult about a 90 day report.  I have done 80 of them all over Thailand. 

 

The Thai government made it easy for me to do 90 day reports and retire in Thailand 20 years ago and it's still easy today.  It is you not us.  I'd have told you 20 years ago to not do a marriage extension and not take your wife to Immigration.  You'd have had no problems.  Isn't obvious at some offices they don't like to do marriage extensions?  

"There is nothing difficult about a 90 day report."  I am not a liar, and when I tell you that about five or six years ago, I did my last 90 day report in person, this was for a retirement ext.

The first thing the IO said to me was "does your wife work"? The second thing he said was "what is her Job"? the third thing he said was "you are on 25 days overstay"? It ended up with the IO being wrong. and him handing me my passport saying "report back here in 90 days".

The IO office is about 90 Ks from my home, most people who think that 90 day reports are no problem are the ones who live in a big town or city, and very easy and convenient to travel to.

Answer me this, why is Thailand the only country who insists on these 90 day reports?

[marcusarelus]

7 hours ago, possum1931 said:

"There is nothing difficult about a 90 day report."  I am not a liar, and when I tell you that about five or six years ago, I did my last 90 day report in person, this was for a retirement ext.

The first thing the IO said to me was "does your wife work"? The second thing he said was "what is her Job"? the third thing he said was "you are on 25 days overstay"? It ended up with the IO being wrong. and him handing me my passport saying "report back here in 90 days".

The IO office is about 90 Ks from my home, most people who think that 90 day reports are no problem are the ones who live in a big town or city, and very easy and convenient to travel to.

Answer me this, why is Thailand the only country who insists on these 90 day reports?

Many countries are required to report passport details to the government each time you check into a hotel it's the same thing.  They track your movements because you are not a citizen.  How did immigration know you had a Thai wife.  They don't know I do and I've been here for 20 years.  Don't do the 90 day report yourself.  I take a taxi to the store and have the driver do the report for me while I wait in the cab or one of my wife's staff you are making a mountain out of a molehill.  Thailand is not out to get you they are just typical bureaucrats.

Edited April 10, 2019 by marcusarelus

[NoshowJones]

52 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Many countries are required to report passport details to the government each time you check into a hotel it's the same thing.  They track your movements because you are not a citizen.  How did immigration know you had a Thai wife.  They don't know I do and I've been here for 20 years.  Don't do the 90 day report yourself.  I take a taxi to the store and have the driver do the report for me while I wait in the cab or one of my wife's staff you are making a mountain out of a molehill.  Thailand is not out to get you they are just typical bureaucrats.

I will repeat this again, how many other countries treat expats like criminals with 90 day reports? Don't change the subject and start going on about hotels notifying governments about you being in the country.

I agree with your last sentence, Thailand are not out to get me, they are out to get all expats, they don't want us here, they just want our money.

One more thing I forgot to mention, the first thing the IO said to me was "are you married?"

Now we will just agree to disagree on this, this debate is over.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I will repeat this again, how many other countries treat expats like criminals with 90 day reports? Don't change the subject and start going on about hotels notifying governments about you being in the country.

...

None that I'm aware of and I'm aware of many. However, I haven't checked out northkoreavisa.com.

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I will repeat this again, how many other countries treat expats like criminals with 90 day reports? Don't change the subject and start going on about hotels notifying governments about you being in the country.

I agree with your last sentence, Thailand are not out to get me, they are out to get all expats, they don't want us here, they just want our money.

One more thing I forgot to mention, the first thing the IO said to me was "are you married?"

Now we will just agree to disagree on this, this debate is over.

I have to agree with the 90 day reporting requirement. Nonsensical, a waste of time for both the retiree and immigration and ineffective at keeping "the bad guys out".

If I remember rightly, it was introduced during an election year and xenophobia always plays well to the masses.

 

It's well known that immigration try to push people from marriage extensions to retirement extensions. It's less work for them and it can be approved at the local office.

There has been a lot of improvement at the local immigration office over the last twenty years. The introduction of the Volunteers to check paperwork and the ticketing system are the obvious ones. I remember when it used to be a wild scrum. The experience is much better now.

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

This will have the effect of making people on the 800k / 400k method, who have to front up at immigration, showing "respect" look like they are wasting their time, cause they sure have wasted their money using that method.

So a person who has paid 1900 baht and has 800,000 baht sitting in a bank account, that he can access if he needs to, has wasted  his time, compared to one who has paid 20,000 baht that he will never see again?  

Also some of those who use an agent also  need to turn up at immigration, pick up their passport and have their picture taken and name entered into records. 

It's a choice, I see both sides, anyhow, I shall go out and spend the 18,000 baht I saved, the only people enjoying themselves more, I guess, will be spending 780,000 baht. 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If I remember rightly, it was introduced during an election year and xenophobia always plays well to the masses.

The 90 day reporting is in section 37 of the immigration act that was written in 1979.

Much older than you seem to think.