Basil B Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, DoctorG said: Maybe the EU will just say no to a further delay and we will be officially out by the week-end. When TM stands up to speak tomorrow and starts waffling on saying give me more time without any meaningful or realistic road map, I am sure they will be unhappy to give any extension, my money is on a Flextention, maybe even condition of a referendum with a clear majority to ratify it. And as for May's we will be out by 30th of June, if there were any credibility in that the the Tories would not be wasting time & money putting up candidates in the Euro Elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Basil B said: When TM stands up to speak tomorrow and starts waffling on saying give me more time without any meaningful or realistic road map, I am sure they will be unhappy to give any extension, my money is on a Flextention, maybe even condition of a referendum with a clear majority to ratify it. And as for May's we will be out by 30th of June, if there were any credibility in that the the Tories would not be wasting time & money putting up candidates in the Euro Elections. Quite. Both the uk and eu govts. are prepared to 'kick the can down the road' until they think they can get away with the eu/may deal, or win in another referendum..... On the uk side, they are (I'm pretty sure) looking at how many votes they will lose at the next GE, and whether they will be able to keep their seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, stephenterry said: That's an honest answer and by far the best I have read on this site. In many ways I am in line with your response, although I do not believe that the current version of the Brexit withdrawal agreement is the best option. I will only respect the government when it demonstrates that the UK populace would benefit by going it alone - rather than endlessly stating the referendum result must be honoured - and that hasn't happened. To my mind that's the worst failure of this process. Agree 100% - it went wrong from Cameron onwards. Of course, I didn't expect the government to make the complete balls up of the process in the way they have. Certainly not abrogating responsibility for the way in which I chose to exercise my democratic right in the referendum but, Cameron staged it as an "In or Out" vote..... it didn't come with pictures or a blueprint. It wouldn't have changed my decision if there had been, because those pictures would not have been the abstract blur we have finished up with under Theresa May. Oops, sorry... thank you for your comment. I do believe, honestly and passionately, that the UK would be better (in the long-term) out of the EU. I am not a right-wing, close the borders type; I am just someone who believes that the EU has gone too far, and will go further, in making it a federal state that I did not sign up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocatsmac Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Basil B said: When TM stands up to speak tomorrow and starts waffling on saying give me more time without any meaningful or realistic road map, I am sure they will be unhappy to give any extension, my money is on a Flextention, maybe even condition of a referendum with a clear majority to ratify it. And as for May's we will be out by 30th of June, if there were any credibility in that the the Tories would not be wasting time & money putting up candidates in the Euro Elections. At least Farage will give us good value in the Euro circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jip99 said: Agree 100% - it went wrong from Cameron onwards. Of course, I didn't expect the government to make the complete balls up of the process in the way they have. Certainly not abrogating responsibility for the way in which I chose to exercise my democratic right in the referendum but, Cameron staged it as an "In or Out" vote..... it didn't come with pictures or a blueprint. It wouldn't have changed my decision if there had been, because those pictures would not have been the abstract blur we have finished up with under Theresa May. "It wouldn't have changed my decision if there had been" It certainly changed my opinion! I went from 'not sure which is the worst evil' (so not voting) - to becoming a firm brexiteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Quite. Both the uk and eu govts. are prepared to 'kick the can down the road' until they think they can get away with the eu/may deal, or win in another referendum..... On the uk side, they are (I'm pretty sure) looking at how many votes they will lose at the next GE, and whether they will be able to keep their seats. I do not see Labour looking forward to the next GE either. Only one person kicking the can... As for the EU, they know it is highly likely if they refuse an extension the UK will revoke Article 50 before 11pm on Friday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, twocatsmac said: Roll on a few months and we’ll still be in a custom union, have a socialist led coalition government. The snp will not be shouting too loudly about independence after denying it to Britain. The famous left wing mantra “ British people are prepared to pay more taxes” will be heard from Yvette Coopers lips as the greedy b+#$<¥€ds tax the ass of us again. I agree with much of this except Yvette Cooper will not be an MP if there is another GE IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Basil B said: I do not see Labour looking forward to the next GE either. Only one person kicking the can... As for the EU, they know it is highly likely if they refuse an extension the UK will revoke Article 50 before 11pm on Friday... You may well be right, but to look on the bright side - a number of MPs will lose their seats at the next GE if they do so. My 'money' is still on the eu giving another extension, and I'm pretty sure that very few will disagree with this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, dick dasterdly said: "It wouldn't have changed my decision if there had been" It certainly changed my opinion! I went from 'not sure which is the worst evil' (so not voting) - to becoming a firm brexiteer. Indeed. I should have said that my resolve has strengthened by the farce on the UK's part and our treatment by the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: I agree with much of this except Yvette Cooper will not be an MP if there is another GE IMHO. If you want to be taken seriously you need to be more realistic with your fantasies. Even if she lost half her votes the Tories are going to take a hammering too, UKIP won't quadruple their vote which probable will be split with the new Brexit Party... More chance of her being the next PM in a coalition government. General Election 2017: Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Yvette Cooper 29,268 59.5 +4.6 Conservative Andrew Lee 14,769 30.0 +9.2 UKIP Lewis Thompson 3,030 6.2 -15.2 Yorkshire Party Daniel Gascoigne 1,431 2.9 +2.9 Liberal Democrat Clarke Roberts 693 1.4 -1.5 Majority 14,499 29.5 -4.1 Turnout 49,191 60.3 +4.7 Labour hold Swing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Jip99 said: Indeed. I should have said that my resolve has strengthened by the farce on the UK's part and our treatment by the EU. You vote for a farce and the resulting predictable humiliation strengthens your resolve. I wonder what future farce and humiliation will this new resolve of yours go looking for?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said: Theresa May needs to go. She is an absolute disgrace. The sooner the better. Call a GE and lets these MPO's stand up and say what they are about and give the people the choice to select them or show them the door. That's the sensible and democratic thing. We have already had a referendum before the remainers start calling for another and we haven't even enacted upon that one. We've had GE's before but you start calling for another one! And the likely result - a hung parliament with the treacherous anti British Corbyn at the helm? Be careful what you wish for. And all because the Tories are divided; and those very rich elites who want to turn the UK into a tax haven low cost economy they can exploit. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You may well be right, but to look on the bright side - a number of MPs will lose their seats at the next GE if they do so. My 'money' is still on the eu giving another extension, and I'm pretty sure that very few will disagree with this..... 6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: You vote for a farce and the resulting predictable humiliation strengthens your resolve. I wonder what future farce and humiliation will this new resolve of yours go looking for?! You deliberately misunderstand. Edit - Do you think the eu will grant yet another extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You may well be right, but to look on the bright side - a number of MPs will lose their seats at the next GE if they do so. My 'money' is still on the eu giving another extension, and I'm pretty sure that very few will disagree with this..... The spineless self serving lying toads who currently occupy parliament haven't got the bottle to revoke Article 50. They sooner keep behaving like they are in the hope someone else will somehow sort it all out so they can blame anybody but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said: We've had GE's before but you start calling for another one! And the likely result - a hung parliament with the treacherous anti British Corbyn at the helm? Be careful what you wish for. And all because the Tories are divided; and those very rich elites who want to turn the UK into a tax haven low cost economy they can exploit. Bravo. I believe it the best way to get TM out and also the 60% plus Labour voters who voted leave, can have a chance to get rid of their lying MP'S. I dobn't believe Jezza would ever be PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You deliberately misunderstand. I would agree, given that I wasn’t responding to your post, there has been a misunderstanding, I’m in no haste to say it was deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said: I believe it the best way to get TM out and also the 60% plus Labour voters who voted leave, can have a chance to get rid of their lying MP'S. i dobn't believe Jezza would ever be PM. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/02/majority-in-all-labour-seats-back-second-referendum-study-says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Baerboxer said: The spineless self serving lying toads who currently occupy parliament haven't got the bottle to revoke Article 50. They sooner keep behaving like they are in the hope someone else will somehow sort it all out so they can blame anybody but themselves. You don't realise that the opposite could be the case? i.e. MPs are desperately looking for a way to do this, but know that a number of them would leave their seats as a result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Garvie Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, Jip99 said: Tasteless - and beneath even you to politicise something perpetrated by a nutcase. Not fair really, though it's a tricky topic, the nutter made it totally clear that he was inspired by Brexit rhetoric. Trump dismisses white supremacist mass murderers as "Just isolated nutters", all of them! I am not claiming for one moment that Jo Cox's killer was a typical brexiteer - that would be stupid, but the inspiration has to come from somewhere. People can't just wash their hands and say "nothing to do with us". We should be careful what we say, there are always people around who get worked up by inflammatory talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/02/majority-in-all-labour-seats-back-second-referendum-study-says Another Guardian article that the headline misleads. By the peoples vote. Sorry chomps nice try but statistically flawed in every way. YouGov used a multi-level regression and post-stratification (MRP) technique, polling 26,000 people to build up a statistical model of key demographics, including age, gender, education, race and social class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Jip99 said: Agree 100% - it went wrong from Cameron onwards. Of course, I didn't expect the government to make the complete balls up of the process in the way they have. Certainly not abrogating responsibility for the way in which I chose to exercise my democratic right in the referendum but, Cameron staged it as an "In or Out" vote..... it didn't come with pictures or a blueprint. It wouldn't have changed my decision if there had been, because those pictures would not have been the abstract blur we have finished up with under Theresa May. Oops, sorry... thank you for your comment. I do believe, honestly and passionately, that the UK would be better (in the long-term) out of the EU. I am not a right-wing, close the borders type; I am just someone who believes that the EU has gone too far, and will go further, in making it a federal state that I did not sign up to. You raise a good point. The people of the EU have never been asked if they want "ever closer union" with federalization, more bureaucratic central control, and a capital in tin pot Belgium. Perhaps that should have been a question? Rather than making assumption after assumption, spreading lie after lie, and deciding to leave rather than trying to be more forceful? The UK has given in to a small group of politicians who want to create their vision without any regard for the wishes off millions of people. Wouldn't it be more sensible to challenge and fight that? And then only leave if the fight is lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/02/majority-in-all-labour-seats-back-second-referendum-study-says I've only read a small part of the article, but this springs to mind (from the article). "The effort is aimed in particular at Labour MPs in constituencies that supported leave, many of whom still say that the primary message they hear from constituents is they want the UK to get out of the European Union as fast as possible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, vinniekintana said: There's also the humiliating senario of no extension and Parliament votes (narrowly) to revoke article 50 ???? They haven't got the balls to do that. Far too concerned with their own career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, Baerboxer said: They haven't got the balls to do that. Far too concerned with their own career. That is not what the lovely Rebecca Long Bailey stated on the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, she said there would be circumstances where Labour would revoke Art 50, which begs the question has anyone told Jeremy Corbyn Labours plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: I believe it the best way to get TM out and also the 60% plus Labour voters who voted leave, can have a chance to get rid of their lying MP'S. I dobn't believe Jezza would ever be PM. May was elected by the Tories as PM, not the electorate. May's snap election and her ill judgement to fight only on Brexit showed the folly of that. Political parties aren't likely to offer their voters a Brexit and No Brexit candidate to choose from! And traditional Labor and Tory voters aren't going to vote for another's MP purely on Brexit. Momentum have Labor firmly in its grip. And many young people believe Corbyn's nonsense about a fairer, no nuclear armed, utopia where everything's free and lovely. They've never experienced the sham of a Labor government, it's high punitive taxes and financial waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: Another Guardian article that the headline misleads. By the peoples vote. Sorry chomps nice try but statistically flawed in every way. YouGov used a multi-level regression and post-stratification (MRP) technique, polling 26,000 people to build up a statistical model of key demographics, including age, gender, education, race and social class. And you can explain the problem you see with statistical method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Garvie Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, vogie said: So you don't think that by simply saying "Jo Cox" that it wasn't a cheap shot at baiting other posters. That is not for me to judge. It is certainly a reference I probably would have avoided, bit of a minefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, vogie said: That is not what the lovely Rebecca Long Bailey stated on the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, she said there would be circumstances where Labour would revoke Art 50, which begs the question has anyone told Jeremy Corbyn Labours plans. A Labor MP talking big and talking <deleted> - how unusual 555! Labor haven't got a majority and can't do diddly squat. So she can waffle on with no consequence other than Jeremy might smack her legs. What's clear is a lot of MP's know what their duty is, and it ain't to self interest and party. But they're scared to do their duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, vinniekintana said: The other option is a no-deal Brexit. Even fewer have the balls for that. Which is why they're scared shitless to make a decision and keep voting things down hoping something will sort itself leaving them uncovered in shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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