Immigration Hua Hin BEWARE

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

The agent has showed your respect and courtesy!

Using an agent to complete an illegal extension application on your behalf is NOT showing respect or courtesy.

 

The law says you must apply in person. Showing respect is complying with the law and making that application in person.

[sumrit]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But, I had no path for an extension that was legal, to spite meeting the qualifications (2 different offices - different methods of avoidance). 

So, if you qualified for an extension why was it refused and what two offices was it refused at??

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

Using an agent to complete an illegal extension application on your behalf is NOT showing respect or courtesy.

 

The law says you must apply in person. Showing respect is complying with the law and making that application in person.

You’re right, but there is nothing illegal about using an agent as long as the applicant attends immigration as required during the application process.

[sumrit]

25 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You’re right, but there is nothing illegal about using an agent as long as the applicant attends immigration as required during the application process.

I quite agree with you. But my original post on this matter was in reply to a poster who said he used an agent instead of applying in person.

[CMNightRider]

5 hours ago, sumrit said:

My comment was primarily directed to CMNightRider who made it clear that he chooses not to attend and pays an AGENT to (illegally) do the work for him, although, judging by the many posts on this forum, there are many others who do the same. Some are legal apart from not attending in person but some are not legal anyway. All are illegal in not attending.

 

The extension process is easy and straight forward, even after the recent changes. I agree with you that our presence is only required once a year for the extension. We are guests in this country and I think common courtesy should mean we obey the law and make our application in person.  

 

I'm not certain what part you don't understand about having a visa agent do the one year visa extension, 90 day reports, and any nonsensical TM forms immigration can come up with.  I use a legal agency to do this for me since it avoids any communication with immigration.  

 

The agency makes an appointment for me once a year and physically drives me to immigration.  Immigration takes my photo and has me sign a couple of documents.  The visa agent then drives me back to their office.  It's all legal.

 

<inflammatory comment removed>  

Edited April 13, 2019 by ubonjoe

[Olmate]

5 hours ago, sumrit said:

A visa is NOT an extension, the information in the application has not been confirmed by Thai immigration and can be refused on entry to Thailand.

 

An extension is an application to stay in Thailand and is made directly to Immigration.

Never heard of a  new OA for retirement being turned away for no reason! point is extension is more of the same x 1 year, no semantics please!

[Olmate]

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

Using an agent to complete an illegal extension application on your behalf is NOT showing respect or courtesy.

 

The law says you must apply in person. Showing respect is complying with the law and making that application in person.

It’s not illegal at all, on the contrary, it’s given priority approval

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

It’s not illegal at all, on the contrary, it’s given priority approval

It is illegal, you are not given priority, you have been buying priority with illegal payments.

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I'm not certain what part you don't understand about having a visa agent do the one year visa extension, 90 day reports, and any nonsensical TM forms immigration can come up with.  I use a legal agency to do this for me since it avoids any communication with immigration.  

 

The agency makes an appointment for me once a year and physically drives me to immigration.  Immigration takes my photo and has me sign a couple of documents.  The visa agent then drives me back to their office.  It's all legal.

 

<inflammatory comment removed>  

If I misunderstood your previous comments I apologise.

 

You actually said: 

 

 

 

2

Quote

I use a regular visa agency that makes the one year appointment, does the 90 day reports, and files the TM forms.  I got burned out on doing these visa extensions myself and interacting with immigration

The extension application uses a TM form and you said your agent files those forms. I took that to mean you no longer did the extensions yourself but used an agent to do the work for you. 

 

If you are now saying you supply the agent with all the necessary documents for your extension, the agent puts them in a folder for you, makes an appointment for you then drives you to immigration and hands that folder to you in order for you to make the application in person before finally driving you back to his office then you are indeed doing things legally.

 

What I can't get my head round is why you 'I got burned out on doing these visa extensions myself'.

 

The agent: gives you a list of the documents required.

You:          get all the documents needed from your own supply.

                (assuming you are doing everything legally as you state you must apply in person to your bank for the required financial proof. The                      bank will not accept an agent applying for that for you)

The agent: makes a phone call to arrange an appointment then drives you there.

You:          present your application in person to the IO.

The agent: drives you back to his office.

 

So for supplying a list of the documents required, making a phone call and acting as a taxi driver just how much do you get ripped off??????

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, sumrit said:

So, if you qualified for an extension why was it refused and what two offices was it refused at??

Jomtien and an office in boonies-Issan which shall remain un-named (apologies to those who read this before): 

 

Jomtien - denied based on landlord-docs - new requirements added each time we applied, and angrier and increasingly insulting/rude to my wife each time we met the last requirement-set - eventually saying the landlord would need to go to the amphur office to get a newer copy of the house-book.  The ID of the landlord showed their Bangkok address (expensive area), and no way they were going to make a special trip to get a doc for some farang renting one of their condos. The IOs were clearly upset I would not go to an agent and pay them off ("cheap 1900 Baht farang"), and had run out of other things to ask for, at that point. 

 

Before this, I had a similar corrupt-experience at that office trying to get a legit Non-O 90-day stamp - a total bs set of fake-rules were presented, wherein "income" was not a qualifying method at all (MFA stamped embassy letter and bank-book proof of the income were not accepted).

 

Boonies-Issan office - denied because my qualifying income was not a "state pension" - though I had a valid embassy-letter plus bank-book proof of more in international-marked transfers than the required amount going back well over a year.  This was before the "new rules" regime.

 

19 minutes ago, sumrit said:

It is illegal, you are not given priority, you have been buying priority with illegal payments.

If not clear yet from all the reports here, many of Thailand's immigration officers do not care what laws say or what is "legal."  They violate their own laws/rules every day at the Bangkok airports, and manipulate the rules for extensions, varying by office.  There is no "umpire" anywhere in the picture - no honest "chain of command" to fix things - just the office you must deal with and whatever they want to do to you. 

 

There is no welfare for foreigners here, and no decent-paying illegal-jobs - so if carried out in a legit-fashion, enforcing these rules would not even serve a logical purpose.  Thus it should not be surprising that the "rules" are nothing but a sham/facade to be bent and twisted to obtain agent-fees

 

If you have not had to pay the Agent-System or suffer the wrath of an IO upset you didn't, then count yourself as fortunate.  But, at this point, I don't blame anyone paying agents - as much as I hate that system, and even having been the victim of it.  It is Thailand's job to clean up their immigration-corruption problems through good police-work - not ours, by leaving our homes or subjecting ourselves or our family-members to their abuse in some futile attempt to "make them be honest."

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

It is illegal, you are not given priority, you have been buying priority with illegal payments.

Only if the agent is paying off someone in immigration to jump the queue, which isn’t always the case.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

Only if the agent is paying off someone in immigration to jump the queue, which isn’t always the case.

And do you believe 3 lots of queuing are avoided any other way? These agents don't even get in line themselves!

[Joe Mcseismic]

46 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

And do you believe 3 lots of queuing are avoided any other way? These agents don't even get in line themselves!

Sometimes there is an IO that is designated just to deal with agents only.

[Neeranam]

On 4/9/2019 at 12:14 PM, graemeaylward said:

I see nothing astounding about it at all! Those of us who have an income slightly above 65k per month, actually use that money for living expenses and modest savings for large household or car repair bills and emergencies like hospital bills! Even if I managed to save 25k baht per month it would take almost 3 years to save the required 800k baht! This money would then be "given" to the bank and could not be used, ever! I cannot understand the logic of this as every baht I have coming in monthly is, in the long run, used for my comfortable retirement and not being used by a bank somewhere!


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Well I can save on less than 65k and have car payments, 17k, mortgage, 11k, two kids at high school EP programs 8k, a wife that doesn't work and her in-laws to donate too, 8k utility bills, 5k pension plan, etc etc. 

 

If you are retired, it is astounding that you think you can retire to a foreign country without a little nest egg if you've been working abroad. If you've been working here, there are other options.

 

If you can't budget for an easy pension, then you must be getting ripped off by someone. 

 

I know old guys who say they can't afford to put 800k in the bank, yet have bought their wife 5 million plots of land and a 5 million baht home.

 If you love an extravagant lifestyle, sell some land, downside your house, stop having soapy massages or whatever were your whistle. Stop handing out money to the work-shy step-by-step.

 

Use your loaf, there are many ways to get around visa issues. I've gone for the citizenship one to save me hassles in my golden years.

[Neeranam]

23 hours ago, sumrit said:

Using an agent to complete an illegal extension application on your behalf is NOT showing respect or courtesy.

 

The law says you must apply in person. Showing respect is complying with the law and making that application in person.

There are so many hypocrites, complaining about the corruption in Thailand, yet breaking the law when getting their visa extension.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Sometimes there is an IO that is designated just to deal with agents only.

Yes, the one with a new car!

I have had them push in front of me!

[max height]

why all the concern, i pay 16000 the last 6 years , everything taken care of, 

sit back, relax pick up P/P AFTER 5 DAYS, report every 90days, NO PROBLEMS,

good guys in baddies out. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

58 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, the one with a new car!

I have had them push in front of me!

You think one IO keeps all the "fees"?

Well, the immigration office you went to obviously didn't have a designated IO for agents.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

You think one IO keeps all the "fees"?

Well, the immigration office you went to obviously didn't have a designated IO for agents.

And yes he had the ability to jump the queue with a fistful of passports. Back to your post...
 

Quote

 

Only if the agent is paying off someone in immigration to jump the queue, which isn’t always the case.

 

I expect all agents are making some contribution to achieve their aims. 

[sfokevin]

On 4/13/2019 at 2:46 PM, CMNightRider said:

The agency makes an appointment for me once a year and physically drives me to immigration.  Immigration takes my photo and has me sign a couple of documents.  The visa agent then drives me back to their office.  It's all legal.

I do the same thing... Mainly so I don’t have to sit for hours in a poorly ventilated room full of farrangs... 

Edited April 15, 2019 by sfokevin

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There are so many hypocrites, complaining about the corruption in Thailand, yet breaking the law when getting their visa extension.

Versus what?  Leaving their family or abandoning their settled-in retirement?  It would be different if the rules had remained constant / grandfathered and were enforced consistently - but they weren't / aren't, so its an impossible position for many. 

 

Many Immigration offices Do Not Want honest applications.  It would be a very different situation if they did, and were attempting to do their jobs honestly. 

 

20 hours ago, max height said:

why all the concern, i pay 16000 the last 6 years , everything taken care of, 

sit back, relax pick up P/P AFTER 5 DAYS, report every 90days, NO PROBLEMS,

good guys in baddies out. 

Exactly - where "Bad" means "Cheap farang paying only 1900 Baht," and "Good" means "Nice farang who pays us off via our agent-buddy like he is supposed to."

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Exactly - where "Bad" means "Cheap farang paying only 1900 Baht," and "Good" means "Nice farang who pays us off via our agent-buddy like he is supposed to."

An unfair generalization.

I have done five extensions of stay. Turned up with the correct paperwork and I'm out in 20 minutes.

Never have I been asked, or pressured into going through an agent and I haven't heard of anyone else using Phuket immigration that has, either.

In fact, the service there seems to get better and better as the years go by.

[AGareth2]

On 4/14/2019 at 12:24 PM, Neeranam said:

Well I can save on less than 65k and have car payments, 17k, mortgage, 11k, two kids at high school EP programs 8k, a wife that doesn't work and her in-laws to donate too, 8k utility bills, 5k pension plan, etc etc. 

could you let me know how you spend 100k per year for 2 kids at a 2ndry EP program

I have 3 children and am currently paying about 250 k

thinking of sending them to Sarasas

Edited April 15, 2019 by AGareth2

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

could you let me know how you spend 100k per year for 2 kids at a 2ndry EP program

I have 3 children and am currently paying about 250 k

thinking of sending them to Sarasas

I lived in Isarn, which is cheaper than Bkk.

 

I don't recommend Sarasas, heard many bad things from teachers there.

 

If I still lived in Bkk, I'd put them to a Catholic school, even though my gran would be turning in her grave!

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Versus what?  Leaving their family or abandoning their settled-in retirement?  It would be different if the rules had remained constant / grandfathered and were enforced consistently - but they weren't / aren't, so its an impossible position for many. 

 

Everyone is corrupt, it's just a matter of what makes you be. Yes, having to go back to your country is enough for many.

 

The laws were grandfathered.

 

I think many of those paying bribes to remain in the country were being dishonest about their earnings before.

 

Thailand is a developing country, yet some would prefer it wasn't.

 

You can't burn your cake at both end.

 

 

[xkkpafi]

I suppose there is no way to take into consideration the 3M Baht worth of shares that I have on account with a Thai stockbroker. After all its a permanent investment in the place and nearly 4 times the 800,000 they are looking for. Then again, its me that gets the dividend payouts rather than the Thai banks getting almost interest free loans. so I guess the answer is probably 'no'. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

9 minutes ago, xkkpafi said:

I suppose there is no way to take into consideration the 3M Baht worth of shares that I have on account with a Thai stockbroker. After all its a permanent investment in the place and nearly 4 times the 800,000 they are looking for. Then again, its me that gets the dividend payouts rather than the Thai banks getting almost interest free loans. so I guess the answer is probably 'no'. 

Not probably.........definitely.

[xkkpafi]

So the 65k Embassy letter of proof of income, is this now completely off the menu or does it still work for the nationals of some countries?

[luckyluke]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:13 PM, JackThompson said:

If you have not had to pay the Agent-System or suffer the wrath of an IO upset you didn't, then count yourself as fortunate.

 

Since 2000 I am fortunate. 

 

Many, the ones who could and still can, obtain a Letter of Income/Affidavit, are as well. 

 

So far. 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, xkkpafi said:

So the 65k Embassy letter of proof of income, is this now completely off the menu or does it still work for the nationals of some countries?

If you can still obtain proof of income from your embassy or consulate it will still be accepted.