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Has anyone been denied entry with a valid tourist visa?


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6 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

So in reality you're living here on tourist visas?

 

Yep but like mentioned there is no law saying that it is illegal to be going to different countries and coming back with tourist visas. I've never went to the same country twice for a back to back visa, but I have been in Thailand every 3 months and leaving for 1 week and coming back which is exactly what they will deny entry for and say "You have too much tourist visas" but then mark you down under Section 12 (2) Not working and not enough funds to support OR Section 12 (3) Suspicion of working while in Thailand.  There has been reports that even showing 20K baht, ticket of ongoing flight isnt enough anymore and won't change their mind to just give you a denial stamp and send you away.

Edited by acenase
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4 hours ago, marke985 said:

If any interest to the original poster, I was denied entry in Don Meuang on March 16.  I flew in from Manila after staying in the Philippines for 7 days.  The reason was, they determined I was not a tourist.  The only reason they gave was I spent 180 days in the past year in Thailand so I was not a tourist thus did not have the correct Visa.

 

My flight was a late night flight and I was really tired so I didn't make too much of an argument.  The 180 days must of been close to exact since I spent May 1 2018 - October 14th 2018 in the USA.  Since returning to Thailand I only spent a few days out if the country each 60 days while applying for a new Visa.  

 

*During the last 5 years I've spent most (90%) of my time in Thailand on single entry tourist visas or visa exempt stamps. With the exception of 2 trips back to the USA for about 6 months each time.

 

*I did not have a Visa last month when I was denied entry. I was planning for a 30 day exempt stamp.

 

* Tomorrow April 14th, I will board a plane back to Don Meuang, this time with a tourist Visa issued from the consul in Manila.

 

If I get denied entry again, I will refuse to sign the form that I've read on this forum allows them to hold me in the detention center and we will see how that goes.

 

I applied for the Thai Elite card on March 20th but still waiting for the immigration background check to clear.  I can show them I've moved 1,000,000 baht to a checking account to pay for the elite card. (I'm not sure if I'll use this information if I get denied again, or tell them to <deleted> off and keep my money and go back to the USA and explore south America for a while)

Anyway, I'll try to remember to come back and update everyone.  If anyone wants me to try/ask immigration anything within reason (in the event I do not get granted entry) let me know or if anyone has any suggestions post them here.

 

Print out all emails u did with Thai Elite, my friend did that...

Also i would really urge you to at least fly to swampy airport or chiang mai instead of DMK, they seem to be the worst at dmk ????

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1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, because most entry points follow the actual laws - rather than make up illegal reasons to deny entry such as "here too much before," and then hide their illegal-denial by using another stamp about having the funds to support their stay (beyond the 20K Baht, even though immigration's own info says the 20K baht covers it).

Wrong misinformation.

 

Explain why embassies/consulates issue warnings against applying for endless visas based on visiting too much as a tourist. 

 

Explain what immigration mean when - in guidance to IO's - they write,

"from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary", and;

"Without valid reason compiled to lack of evidence required by the immigration officer, the alien shall be refused to enter the Kingdom, pursuant to immigration law provision."

 

The requirement to carry "20K baht" is only to comply with 12 (9). Most get denied entry under 12 (2), which is nothing to do with the 20K "pocket money" requirement.

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51 minutes ago, acenase said:

 

Yep but like mentioned there is no law saying that it is illegal to be going to different countries and coming back with tourist visas. I've never went to the same country twice for a back to back visa, but I have been in Thailand every 3 months and leaving for 1 week and coming back which is exactly what they will deny entry for and say "You have too much tourist visas" but then mark you down under Section 12 (2) Not working and not enough funds to support OR Section 12 (3) Suspicion of working while in Thailand.  There has been reports that even showing 20K baht, ticket of ongoing flight isnt enough anymore and won't change their mind to just give you a denial stamp and send you away.

The 20K only satisfies 12 (9), which is why people with cash on them aren't denied under 12 (9).

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14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The 20K only satisfies 12 (9), which is why people with cash on them aren't denied under 12 (9).

How would somebody get out of 12 (2) since that seems to be the most common reason. 

 

Seems like a lose-lose situation. If the IO asks you "Are you working??" And you say "No" then they automatically say you can not afford it and your savings is not good enough and you have insufficient funds. What if you say your parents send you monthly living expenses? It shows you have income but not working. And, if you say "I am working but outside of Thailand" (or something to that extend, any agreement to working) then they will mark 12 (3) for suspicious of working inside Thailand.

Edited by acenase
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8 hours ago, mngmn said:

I was one of the first people to post about being hassled at Don Muang when I entered with many visa exempt stamps in my passport back in 2014.

 

My story also was 'not valid' as I joined TV specifically to report my experience.

 

Seems like many would like to keep TV as an argumentative outlet for bored retirees.

 

Yes, visa exempt, and you got hassled and allowed entry eventually.

 

Your story is very valid in the context that many other people in the past reported the visa exempt hassling - countless people particularly working on rotation- that were told: "get a visa next time (tourist), and they did.

 

This thread is about people with a valid tourist visa getting denied entry.

 

Not suggesting they cannot reject entry on that also, but we need to be careful which reports we take for granted and which we don't. Believe it or not, there are fictional reports also on ThaiVisa.

Edited by lkv
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4 minutes ago, acenase said:

How would somebody get out of 12 (2) since that seems to be the most common reason. 

They can't. Tourists aren't required to provide the appropriate means of living in the country because they aren't supposed to be living in the country.

 

4 minutes ago, acenase said:

Seems like a lose-lose situation. If the IO asks you "Are you working??" And you say "No" then they automatically say you can not afford it or you have insufficient funds. What if you say your parents send you monthly living expenses? It shows you have income but not working. And, if you say "I am working but outside of Thailand" (or something to that extend, any agreement to working) then they will mark 12 (3) for suspicious of working inside Thailand.

12 (2) is a catch all. In simple terms they are saying that you've lived in the country for a long time and you want to come in again, but most people need to work to live in a foreign country, or have money in the bank, or a passive income, and as you're not working they have no idea how you support yourself.

 

The underlying reason for denial is the time spent in the country; and although there is no law/regulation setting a specific limit IO's are under orders to deny entry using any law/regulation that qualifies.

 

 

It could be argued that it's unfair to single out long term tourists and not apply the same laws to every tourist; for example, millions enter every year without the requisite 10K/20K in their pocket but it's only long term tourists that are singled out and denied entry for not having it. But clearly immigration are taking a pragmatic view and giving discretion to the IO's to weed out some of the worst offenders.

 

Anyone wanting to stay long term has to buy their way in (Investment type visa) or show they have a job, money in the bank, or a foreign income. It goes beyond having someone sending you monthly living expenses or having money in your pocket or under the bed. You have to prove a job, certified income, or the certified funds in the bank. Just walking into immigration and showing 1m baht in your pocket wouldn't get you a permit to stay. The same principle applies at the border. A long term tourist can clearly afford to stay long term, but waving bank statements or wads of cash at the border is not the time nor place to demonstrate you're appropriate means of living, especially when the fact you're not supposed to be living in the country as a tourist renders it irrelevant.

 

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3 hours ago, elviajero said:

IO’s cannot, and do not, deny entry specifically for time spent as a tourist even though it’s the underlying reason, but there is nothing stopping them using other qualifying reasons, which is what happens.

The justification they use (based on a highly dubious interpretation of Section 12 (2) which I am quite sure was never intended for the purpose of allowing any immigration official to deny anyone entry at any time) could be used against any arrival. Someone who has properly entered and left Thailand as a tourist many times has repeatedly demonstrated they have appropriate means to stay (unless there is some evidence that they did something wrong on previous visits).

 

We have a situation where consular officials under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs can issue tourist visas (including multiple entry tourist visas from home country) and the Immigration Bureau turn around and effectively say the visa was issued improperly, and we will use a bogus reason to deny entry using that visa. The reason the Immigration Bureau has not dared try to publicise their intention to abrogate properly issued visas is that they know it would cause a storm of protest from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

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45 minutes ago, yuiop said:

I can be a tourist for one week, one month or one year, as long as I have the money and don't work. Where's the problem?

 

Power trip. They want you to pay for the $15,000 Elite Visa. Think about it, whats the difference between a Tourist Visa and a Elite visa? Elite you can get stamped in for 1 year and never have to travel out. At least with a Tourist Visa you can go to different embassys all around Asia. Vietnam, Malaysia, Lao, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bali.. right? Who cares how many times you get one, if you're traveling. But the Elite Visa is what they really want you to pay for and just stay in Thailand and spend all your money and travel nowhere 

Edited by acenase
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2 hours ago, yuiop said:

I can be a tourist for one week, one month or one year, as long as I have the money and don't work. Where's the problem?

The UK issue a 10 year ‘tourist’ (visitor) visa. Do you think they’d let someone live in the country for 10 years with the occasional border run?

 

The problem is that Thailand, like other countries, want short term tourists to holiday and go home and long term visitors that are properly vetted.

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18 hours ago, lkv said:

He said verified examples, not posts from users that joined "yesterday" or joined 2 months ago and have +0 community rating.

And exactly how is that 'verification' supposed to happen - Are the witnesses to the event supposed to come forward and 'swear' that it happened?

 

I would expect there to be MORE posts from folks who joined recently simply because those are exactly the folks most likely to get bitten in the ass by the new 'procedures', not ones who have been TV members for a long while, who jump in and contribute, and who pay attention to the words of wisdom on here

 

Generally I agree with you that posts by those who have recently joined and with low or no posts should should be viewed with a high degree of skepticism, but there are just too folks reporting 'difficulties' with Immigration to arrogantly dismiss them out of hand  

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8 hours ago, elviajero said:

Explain what immigration mean when - in guidance to IO's - they write,

 "from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary", and;

 "Without valid reason compiled to lack of evidence required by the immigration officer, the alien shall be refused to enter the Kingdom, pursuant to immigration law provision."

As you already know, they were explaining the conditions under which immigration officials should deny entry to those using back-to-back visa exempt entries. Since immigration is responsible for deciding whether arrivals qualify for visa exempt entries, it is reasonable that the Immigration Bureau should set rules to guide their officials on when they should be granted. In the same way, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sets the guidelines on who should be issued tourist visas (and other categories of visas). Guidelines by the Immigration Bureau to its officials on visa exempt entries are not an instruction that immigration officials should override decisions by consulates on issuing visas.

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19 hours ago, marke985 said:

Tomorrow April 14th, I will board a plane back to Don Meuang, this time with a tourist Visa issued from the consul in Manila.

You've already been denied once, and flying into DMK? Why? You're trying to get denied again? Fly into BKK and your chances are much better.

 

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

use VIP service if you really must fly-in,

Can you elaborate on that? VIP service as in the VIP lane reserved for business class etc with the VIP slip, or an actual person to meet you at the gate and walk you through immigration?

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2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

You've already been denied once, and flying into DMK? Why? You're trying to get denied again? Fly into BKK and your chances are much better

When I was originally denied entry I flew to Kuala Lumpur to figure out what the next plan should be.  I only has a small carry on bag with me since I was originally only planning to be outside of Thailand for a few days.

 

While sitting in Kuala Lumpur airport, I decided to just fly back to Manila as I'm familiar with the city and its public transportation/buses out of the city.  Upon, requesting my ticket to Manila I was reminded under Filipino law I needed to buy an exit ticket before I would be allowed to board the plane.  At this point, I was tired, had not showered or eaten well having spent the last night in the detention center in Don Meuang, I just bought a ticket back to Don Meuang as it was a cheap option to satisfy the airlines requirement for flights entering the Philippines.

 

Day 1 of being in the Philippines, I called Thai Elite to inquire about their services and was originally told the background check for the Visa would take around 10 business days.  At this point I thought I'll just use the ticket back to DMK as I should have the elite card by then.

 

After submitting my information to Thai Elite, I got an email saying the background check can take up to 1 month.  Since then, I've seen their website updated to say can take 1-4 months.  At this point I don't really care, I'm lucky enough to have enough money to not have to worry about things others may have to.  At this point, I'm more interested in seeing what happens today at DMK and kind of in a sick way hope to have issues to I can protest a denied entry with the form UbonJoe kindly provided a few posts back so I can learn about that process and share the experience with anyone interested on this forum.

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1 hour ago, acenase said:

Denied Entry at Suvarnabhumi Airport with Valid Tourist Visa and Proof of Funds (April 13, 2019)

Thank you for your detailed report.

One piece of leverage people should always be aware of in this situation is that the airline is responsible for removing you from Thailand whether you pay or not. If you have unused flight coupons, they will grab them. Otherwise, you should use the threat that you will make it difficult to get reimbursement for the flight to pressure them into agreeing to fly you where you want to go.

It is predictable in this situation that the airline would want you to purchase additional flight coupons, because this makes it easy to get, at least partial, reimbursement should something go wrong at your planned destination, and the airline need to fly you elsewhere.

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What about starting to inform embassies and social media (press) about this kind of denials and lies?

There's no law in Thailand saying you have too many TVs, so no entry.

They clearly deny you with a lie written on your passport.

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i never get denied..but last time i did a mistake because i speak thai wery well,then the immiration lady started ask me alot of things.It took about 15 minutes before she stamp my passport.She asked how i can speak thai..who learned me..and many other things.So next time i will just speak english

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My Thai wife and I live in the UK at the moment but visit Thailand frequently. This year she has stayed in Thailand over the UK winter with her family.  She hates the cold.... When I visited last, which was only a month after the previous visit, on the entry paper where you have to state where you are staying in Thailand I put the address of the family house, as I have done before. For the first time ever I got asked if I was living in Thailand. Never had that happen before. So it seems that they are getting tougher.

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If it’s that important to come back to Thailand, why not book a flight Europe to Kl, for example ( plenty reasonably priced flights) and come in through the Malay/ Thai land border ? Sounds a good chance to me. 

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8 hours ago, acenase said:

I chuckled a bit, because I knew this was a lie...

This blatant and ridiculous lying also amuses me at times.  I believe its partly because those in authority are used to dealing with Thais of lower status who have no choice other than to accept the crap they are told.  Also because of the non-confrontational culture no one will challenge the most outrageous porkies.

 

I mention this, not to indulge in a bit of bashing, but more as a warning to those less familiar with Thailand.  You may be told all sorts of alarming things only some of which may have an element of truth. 

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1 hour ago, LongTang said:

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

Slowly but surely Thailand is destroying its reputation as an attractive place to visit..

Not only just visit, but to retire to. 

 

Today's tourists, could be tomorrow's retirees.

 

I can't see the Chinese retiring here, so by giving farang a hard time while they are in their tourist visa phase, it's not a great advertisement for prospective retirees to Thailand. 

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