Has anyone been denied entry with a valid tourist visa?

[yuiop]

2 hours ago, geisha said:

If it’s that important to come back to Thailand, why not book a flight Europe to Kl, for example ( plenty reasonably priced flights) and come in through the Malay/ Thai land border ? Sounds a good chance to me. 

Maybe because it's more expensive and less options available?

[acenase]

1 hour ago, mngmn said:

This blatant and ridiculous lying also amuses me at times.  I believe its partly because those in authority are used to dealing with Thais of lower status who have no choice other than to accept the crap they are told.  Also because of the non-confrontational culture no one will challenge the most outrageous porkies.

 

If a supervisor says something, the employees have to accept it as fact, even if he is wrong, they can't say anything to him or else he will lose face.  

 

In Thai culture, they never want to say anything against what the supervisor says. Thai people will feel arrogant or disrespectful especially if the manager is much older. And they will not try to cross with the older or superior people. That's why it's important to research everything and stand your ground. It's like knowing your rights. You're not doing anything illegal by re-entering Thailand via Land Border.

Edited April 14, 2019 by acenase

[elliss]

On 4/13/2019 at 7:41 AM, mngmn said:

 

 

Seems like many would like to keep TV as an argumentative outlet for bored retirees.

 

 

Bored retirees,  living on forums , know everything . 555

   Bttopic ,  land border crossings are easier, less hassle,  imo .

 

 

[isaanjohnno]

Welcome to Thailand 2019

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, yuiop said:

What about starting to inform embassies and social media (press) about this kind of denials and lies?

There's no law in Thailand saying you have too many TVs, so no entry.

They clearly deny you with a lie written on your passport.

Good luck with that. Do you think the press and foreign consuls aren’t aware of what’s happening? It’s been going on for years!

 

It doesn’t matter what the underlying reason is. As long as they follow formal procedure and deny entry quoting a qualifying law/regulation, there’s nothing you can do other than appeal at the time of denial. And that’s almost certainly a

waste of time.

 

It’s people living in the country as a tourist that are in the wrong, not immigration.

[Selatan]

14 hours ago, acenase said:

The way they treat you is like you are a criminal who committed a crime, you have no freedom, they leave you waiting for hours and then put you in a room full of other guys who look like they've been sitting on the streets begging for money all day long. All this because you are traveling to other countries and coming back to Thailand with a Tourist Visa 4+ times.

They treated you that way because you were not a genuine tourist. We Malaysians may have been stamped visa-exempt entries a dozen times in one calendar year on our passports and still unlikely to pulled aside for questioning or to even get asked if we have the money to spend in Thailand. That's because we often fly in to DMK or BKK on a Friday or Saturday and fly back out to KUL or PEN on Sunday for a couple of days of shopping and makan (Malay word for eat) in Bangkok every now and then. Many of our Singaporean neighbours down south are also like that.

 

I find it rather funny to hear some of you farangs claiming to be contributing a lot to the economy of Thailand. Maybe some of you have not seen this chart before:

 

[ExpatPH]

8 hours ago, Selatan said:

 

I find it rather funny to hear some of you farangs claiming to be contributing a lot to the economy of Thailand. Maybe some of you have not seen this chart before:

 

 

Because farang expats and tourist do contribute.

17,7 per cent of GDP

 

Quote:

Tourism is a major economic contributor to the Kingdom of Thailand. Estimates of tourism revenue directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from one trillion baht (2013) 2.53 trillion baht (2016), the equivalent of 9 per cent to 17.7 per cent of GDP.^[1][2] 

 

When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to be the equivalent of 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.

 

Tourism is a major economic contributor to the Kingdom of Thailand.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

[lkv]

9 hours ago, Selatan said:

They treated you that way because you were not a genuine tourist. We Malaysians may have been stamped visa-exempt entries a dozen times in one calendar year on our passports and still unlikely to pulled aside for questioning or to even get asked if we have the money to spend in Thailand. That's because we often fly in to DMK or BKK on a Friday or Saturday and fly back out to KUL or PEN on Sunday for a couple of days of shopping and makan (Malay word for eat) in Bangkok every now and then. Many of our Singaporean neighbours down south are also like that.

 

I find it rather funny to hear some of you farangs claiming to be contributing a lot to the economy of Thailand. Maybe some of you have not seen this chart before:

 

Yeah, so from the 9.92 million Chinese, the large majority are not independent travellers but come with tour groups where spending is kept at a minimum and the money is recycled back into the Chinese economy somehow.

 

They don't hop over like the Malaysians and Singaporeans do, "for the weekend".

 

The more well off do "never ending tourism", combined with AirBnb rental business, simply because their nationality is not scrutinized. And they are not to be disturbed.

 

If the equivalent of some negative Thaivisa reports that we see these days go viral on chat forums in China affecting Chinese, heads will fall.

 

Furthermore, out of the 23.94 million tourists, all the farang nations combined still make up a significant proportion of the numbers, although smaller in comparisson to the Asian market, which has been heavily lobbied since 2014.

Edited April 15, 2019 by lkv

[yogavnture]

if u were given a valid entry visa wouldnt thais be obligated to let you in.   why wouldnt they what would be thier reasoning.  back to back tourist visa seems innocent enuf to me. my guess is people are trying to game the system ? thailand is for holidays not living and working

[JackThompson]

On 4/13/2019 at 3:01 PM, elviajero said:

Wrong misinformation.

 

Explain why embassies/consulates issue warnings against applying for endless visas based on visiting too much as a tourist. 

Consulates can make up any unofficial rules they choose, and are likely being pressured by the same forces who bought-off Bangkok Airport immigration. 

 

Even if corruption were not in our faces and widespread - the "best case" explanation is to say is they do this because they are xenophobes who don't care about the Thais they hurt (much more than us) with their anti-foreigner agenda. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:01 PM, elviajero said:

 

Explain what immigration mean when - in guidance to IO's - they write,

"from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary", and;

"Without valid reason compiled to lack of evidence required by the immigration officer, the alien shall be refused to enter the Kingdom, pursuant to immigration law provision."

As to "tourism point of view" - is that from the unofficial "visa exempt" guidelines immigration released?  It is questionable whether they even have the legal-right to restrict Visa-Exempts per those guidelines, IMO - but refusing to grant entry w/o a visa is very different from refusing to grant entry to someone with a visa, and why those guidelines say nothing about Tourist Visa entries. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:01 PM, elviajero said:

The requirement to carry "20K baht" is only to comply with 12 (9). Most get denied entry under 12 (2), which is nothing to do with the 20K "pocket money" requirement.

Actually, for tourists, 12(2) does not seem to apply at all; the cash is all that is required for the short permission-of-stay given. 

Quote

Proof of adequate finances for the duration of stay in Thailand i.e. traveler’s cheque or cash equivalent to 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family.

https://thaiembdc.org/visas/

 

So, at least for Visa-Exempt, the "pocket money" = "proof of adequate finances for the duration of stay."  Or, the Thai Consulate in DC is just making that up.

 

But, as I have often pointed out, many at immigration don't care about the law at all, other than to try not getting caught breaking it.  In this case, they avoid getting caught by using 12(2) to cover their tracks, instead of admitting on-paper they are denying-entry to a person with a valid Tourist Visa for an illegal reason.  Only where there was evidence the visitor had a record of not paying their Thai-bills in the past, would there be any justification to use this reason for rejecting-entry.

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

On 4/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, acenase said:

How would somebody get out of 12 (2) since that seems to be the most common reason. 

They can't. Tourists aren't required to provide the appropriate means of living in the country because they aren't supposed to be living in the country. 

 

Similar to many offices, they don't operate honestly at some entry-points.  All this discussion entails, is the methods of their dishonesty - how they avoid "getting caught" for doing a wrong thing.

 

 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

On 4/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, acenase said:

How would somebody get out of 12 (2) since that seems to be the most common reason. 

They can't. Tourists aren't required to provide the appropriate means of living in the country because they aren't supposed to be living in the country. 

And they aren't, unless on overstay.  Each entry is atomic - having nothing to do with the previous one.  The visitor is only applying for 60-days - not some period in the past that already ended with their departure from the country.  Either you have the 20K Baht Cash they require (they wrote the rules) for the 60-day entry, or you don't.

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

12 (2) is a catch all. In simple terms they are saying that you've lived in the country for a long time and you want to come in again, but most people need to work to live in a foreign country, or have money in the bank, or a passive income, and as you're not working they have no idea how you support yourself.

They have no idea how a short-term, first-time visitor "supports themselves" other than the "show the cash" rule.  They can change the rules if they want, but twisting them like this is simply dishonest (and sadly typical).

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

It could be argued that it's unfair to single out long term tourists and not apply the same laws to every tourist; for example, millions enter every year without the requisite 10K/20K in their pocket but it's only long term tourists that are singled out and denied entry for not having it. But clearly immigration are taking a pragmatic view and giving discretion to the IO's to weed out some of the worst offenders.

They aren't "offenders" - as they have done nothing wrong.  They are targeting and denying entry to people dishonestly and dishonorably. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

Anyone wanting to stay long term has to buy their way in (Investment type visa) or show they have a job, money in the bank, or a foreign income. It goes beyond having someone sending you monthly living expenses or having money in your pocket or under the bed. You have to prove a job, certified income, or the certified funds in the bank. Just walking into immigration and showing 1m baht in your pocket wouldn't get you a permit to stay.

Correct, but we are not discussing 1-year permitted-stays.  The topic is about those denied-entry for a 60-day permitted stay, for which the financial requirement is 20K Baht (at the consulate, and at the entry-point).

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

The same principle applies at the border. A long term tourist can clearly afford to stay long term, but waving bank statements or wads of cash at the border is not the time nor place to demonstrate you're appropriate means of living,

 

Actually you do have to waive a wad of money - 20K Baht.  Bank-statements would be acceptable also (as they are at consulates) if Immigration was really concerned about the money.  But as you pointed out, those they are denying clearly can afford to do what they are doing, so the whole thing is a dishonest charade carried out by dishonest abusers of power. 

 

On 4/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, elviajero said:

especially when the fact you're not supposed to be living in the country as a tourist renders it irrelevant.

No one is doing that.  The max stay, if an extension is granted, is 90-days.  Past stays are already paid-for / irrelevant.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Selatan said:

They treated you that way because you were not a genuine tourist.

Per Thai law, "genuine tourist" means "does not work a Thai job, is self-funded, is not committing crimes."  Those are the only qualifiers.  They could add more if they wanted, but they haven't.

 

12 hours ago, Selatan said:

...

I find it rather funny to hear some of you farangs claiming to be contributing a lot to the economy of Thailand. Maybe some of you have not seen this chart before:

 

The Chinese numbers include mostly tour-group types, who spend very, very little each - and primarily at "connected" businesses where their tour-buses are instructed to stop.  To keep those numbers up, Thailand had to offer them discounted/free VOA, because that little-bit of money made the trip possible (or not) for them.

 

Thais serving the "tour groups" are paid rock-bottom wages, and with a low employee:employer ratio.  Contrast to those working for Western expat serving businesses, who are paid better, and hire more Thais per expat served.

 

If you doubt this, go to a tourist-area and talk to the Thais who work there - ask them who they prefer and why (their dislike is more than just the money-factor).

 

This is not to say there are not wealthier Chinese visitors - some come and spend a lot.  It helps to be related to the communist oligarchs who got all the sweet "partnership deals" with the Western companies who were allowed in under that condition (just as Marx would have approved of, I'm sure)

[Gweiloman]

 

Because farang expats and tourist do contribute.

17,7 per cent of GDP

 

Quote:

Tourism is a major economic contributor to the Kingdom of Thailand. Estimates of tourism revenue directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from one trillion baht (2013) 2.53 trillion baht (2016), the equivalent of 9 per cent to 17.7 per cent of GDP.^[1][2] 

 

When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to be the equivalent of 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.

 

Tourism is a major economic contributor to the Kingdom of Thailand.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

There is no doubt that farang expats contributes to the Thai economy. I think Selatan’s point is that they don’t contribute as much as they think.

A case in point is one poster’s claim in another thread that he only transfers in 20k a month as this is all he needs. Compare this to many Malaysians who spend more than this in a typical weekend in Bangkok or Hatyai or Chiang Mai.

Thailand does not deny entry to genuine tourists. No one I know has ever been denied entry. Entry is denied to those wishing to stay long term who are not abiding by the rules and regulations laid down.

 

 

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[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Thailand does not deny entry to genuine tourists. No one I know has ever been denied entry.

We have many reports that they are denying entry to genuine tourists - as "genuine tourists" are defined by their own laws (have 20K Baht cash, plus Visa and not working a Thai job). 

 

The authorities can change their laws if they want, but they haven't.  Immigration personnel who have a problem with the laws should take it up with their superiors - or if they have a problem with Visas, take it up with the MFA.  Leave us out of it, and enforce the Existing Laws unless/until they are changed and published.

 

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Entry is denied to those wishing to stay long term who are not abiding by the rules and regulations laid down.

No one entering with a Tourist Visa is applying to stay long term.  The maximum permitted-stay given is 60 days.  Immigration, at their option, can extend it for 30 days more.  

 

The fact that immigration offices almost always grant the extension - even to those with a long history of previous tourist-stays - indicates there is no top-down directive against repeat-tourists.  This is one more indicator that the unlawful denials of entry at the Bangkok Airports to those with Tourist Visas are not an action sanctioned from the top.

 

None of those we are discussing broke any rules and regulations. On the contrary, they came with a valid visa, and the required 20K Baht in Cash for their stay - exactly as the rules stipulate.

[Gweiloman]

No one entering with a Tourist Visa is applying to stay long term.  The maximum permitted-stay given is 60 days.  Immigration, at their option, can extend it for 30 days more.  
 
The fact that immigration offices almost always grant the extension - even to those with a long history of previous tourist-stays - indicates there is no top-down directive against repeat-tourists.  This is one more indicator that the unlawful denials of entry at the Bangkok Airports to those with Tourist Visas are not an action sanctioned from the top.
 
None of those we are discussing broke any rules and regulations. On the contrary, they came with a valid visa, and the required 20K Baht in Cash for their stay - exactly as the rules stipulate.

You are intentionally twisting the facts.
Requirements such as having 20k etc do not in any way define a genuine tourist. These requirements are in place in case of emergencies (think 25 yr old Brit girl stranded).
Fact of the matter is that there are many long stayers who are not genuine tourists, trying to stay here on the pretext of being tourists. Those who are successful in doing so, good luck to them. For those who aren’t, too bad.
It is not for Thailand to change their laws to suit foreigners.


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[ThomasThBKK]

14 hours ago, Selatan said:

They treated you that way because you were not a genuine tourist. We Malaysians may have been stamped visa-exempt entries a dozen times in one calendar year on our passports and still unlikely to pulled aside for questioning or to even get asked if we have the money to spend in Thailand. That's because we often fly in to DMK or BKK on a Friday or Saturday and fly back out to KUL or PEN on Sunday for a couple of days of shopping and makan (Malay word for eat) in Bangkok every now and then. Many of our Singaporean neighbours down south are also like that.

 

I find it rather funny to hear some of you farangs claiming to be contributing a lot to the economy of Thailand. Maybe some of you have not seen this chart before:

 

 

Chart if of course non sense, there are nearly 30 EU countries alone, not in there.

Here's the top 25 list of arrivals by nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

This gives us the following:

 

SUM of "FARANG"        
7.337.269           
            
SUM of other Tourists from Asia excluding ASEAN          
17.288.812            

 

Total non neighbours (FARANG PLUS ASIA EXCLUDING ASEAN)

24.626.081

 

Total Arrivals

34.895.888

Percentage Farrang Arrivals        Percentage ASIA without ASEAN   TOTAL ARRIVALS EXCL ASEAN
21.02                                        49.54                                           70.57

    

 

 

 

 

So that means, there are nearly double the amount of Farangs (i only counted the caucasian countries) arriving here than Malays (4 mio Malays).

 

In total we are >20% of their Tourism, but for sure way more than 1/3 of the spending power.

 

Japanese, Koreans and Co. have the same issues we farrangs have, they are just called different. So in total it's easily 50% of the spending power they <deleted> with. 

 

 lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

To quote the very same article: 

 

Quote

Despite the increasing number of tourist arrivals, some businesses catering to the tourist trade report declining numbers. Mr Sompoch Sukkaew, chief legal counsel of the Patong Entertainment Business Association (PEBA) in Phuket, said in January 2016 that entertainment businesses are suffering. "Over the past three years, most bars were averaging about B90,000 revenue per day at this time of year,...now they're making just B40,000. Small bars...used to average B40,000 to B50,000 a day, now they're down to just B10,000 per day....PEBA members generated about B1.5 million per day during the peak season. Now it's down to about B540,000 per day." PEBA members number 500 in Patong, with about 200 businesses in the Bangla Road entertainment area. PEBA President Weerawit Kuresombat attributed the decline to the rise in Chinese tourism. "...most of them [Chinese tourists] come on complete tour packages....This means they spend very little on extras....They rarely venture out for the nightlife or even visit independent restaurants. They just don't spend much", he said.^[49]

 

QED

 

Quote

 The tourism industry rebounded swiftly after the lifting of martial law. Deputy Prime Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula said that the arrival of high-spending tourists from Europe and the US is expected to increase.^[36]

 

 

I guess this didn't work out -.-

 

Here's some more number which shows what the top 10 actually spends: https://www.tatnews.org/2018/11/thailand-leads-asia-in-international-visitors-spending-unwto-report/

 

Russia, USA, UK, AUSTRALIA, GERMANY account for 29% of spendings in there alone, and that excludes Switzerland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, France and co.

 

 

Russians alone spends more money here than here than Malays.
 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Gweiloman]

 
 
I guess this didn't work out -.-
 
Here's some more number which shows what the top 10 actually spends: https://www.tatnews.org/2018/11/thailand-leads-asia-in-international-visitors-spending-unwto-report/
 
Russia, USA, UK, AUSTRALIA, GERMANY account for 29% of spendings in there alone, and that excludes Switzerland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, France and co.
 
 
Russians alone spends more money here than here than Malays.
 
 
 

Read through your post a few times but still don’t understand the point that you are trying to make.
Spending habits of farangs and Asians are very different. You won’t find many Asian tourists going to beach resorts. Similarly you won’t find many farangs frequenting soapies.
By comparing Russians to Malaysians (not all Malaysians are Malays), you should also consider the population size (144 mio vs 32 mio).
It is undeniable that tourist dollars are very important for Thailand. That is why, other than the long queues at arrival points, coming to Thailand as a tourist is very easy. Coming to stay on the pretext of being a tourist is more difficult.



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[lkv]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Chart if of course non sense, there are nearly 30 EU countries alone, not in there.

Here's the top 25 list of arrivals by nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

This gives us the following:

 

SUM of "FARANG"        
7.337.269                   
SUM of other Tourists from Asia excluding ASEAN          
17.288.812            

Total non neighbours (FARANG PLUS ASIA EXCLUDING ASEAN)

24.626.081

Total Arrivals

34.895.888

I do agree with most of your statements in your previous post. The only small issue is that the sources for all the numbers stated on Wikipedia are TAT and the Ministry of Tourism & Sport.

 

We will never know unfortunately if 35 million tourists is a real number or just made up by Thai Authorities to save face.

 

I don't understand where @Selatan took that chart from (24 million), but it might reflect the reality closer as far as arrival numbers are concerned.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by lkv

[ThomasThBKK]

15 minutes ago, lkv said:

I do agree with most of your statements in your previous post. The only small issue is that the sources for all the numbers stated on Wikipedia are TAT and the Ministry of Tourism & Sport.

 

We will never know unfortunately if 35 million tourists is a real number or just made up by Thai Authorities to save face.

 

I don't understand where @Selatan took that chart from (24 million), but it might reflect the reality closer as far as arrival numbers are concerned.

 

 

His chart is only the TOP 10 Countries of arrivals. But there's alone 29 or so EU countries that are small but rich and spend a lot a la Switzerland, Sweden and co.

They all end up to a lot...

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

His chart is only the TOP 10 Countries of arrivals. But there's alone 29 or so EU countries that are small but rich and spend a lot a la Switzerland, Sweden and co.

They all end up to a lot...

Yes, 24 million just the top 10 countries. I got distracted ???? Sorry.

 

I thought for a second 24 million was the total number, which sounded more plausible than the 35 million advertised. ????

 

But yes, I agree that important spending comes from Western countries if you add them up. There should be more, but TAT's advertising campaigns to the Western audience seem to have stopped since the coup.

Edited April 15, 2019 by lkv

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

You are intentionally twisting the facts.
Requirements such as having 20k etc do not in any way define a genuine tourist. These requirements are in place in case of emergencies (think 25 yr old Brit girl stranded).
Fact of the matter is that there are many long stayers who are not genuine tourists, trying to stay here on the pretext of being tourists. Those who are successful in doing so, good luck to them. For those who aren’t, too bad.
It is not for Thailand to change their laws to suit foreigners.

What is desired, is if they simply Followed Their Own Rules / Laws - or changed them if they don't like them as-is. 

There are several ways Thailand could legally and publicly set limits on visit-time for Tourists.  Such changes could have "flexibility" language - so not necessarily block all visitors above a limit, but make a clear delineation where visitors know they are crossing a line, and could face rejected-entry.

• Add a new item to the immigration-act (most difficult way / legislature)
• Publish a Police/Ministerial Order
• The minister defines a new group who could be denied entry

The authorities have done none of these, though the last two should not be a problem to do quickly, if desired.

Instead, at some entry points (but not others), they are telling visitors they "Spent too much time in Thailand," while rejecting-entry based on a rule not applicable to the visitor, and which has no reference to "Time in Thailand."   Meanwhile, those with a lot of time in Thailand can get 30 day extensions from immigration offices w/o issue. 

Given the inconsistency, and the twisting of rules inconsistent with their stated reasoning, it would appear the IO/Supervisors doing this to visitors are unable get the rule-changes they want, so are going around the rules to carry out their agenda.

Edited April 16, 2019 by JackThompson

[Selatan]

On 4/15/2019 at 3:13 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Here's some more number which shows what the top 10 actually spends: https://www.tatnews.org/2018/11/thailand-leads-asia-in-international-visitors-spending-unwto-report/

 

Russia, USA, UK, AUSTRALIA, GERMANY account for 29% of spendings in there alone, and that excludes Switzerland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, France and co.

 

 

Russians alone spends more money here than here than Malays.
 

This top ten list of spenders that you gave proves my point - you farangs are not contributing the most to Thai tourism - the Asians are. And no, this is not about how much Malaysian tourists spend vs Russian tourists. It's about non-farangs vs farangs. And if you really want to compare Malaysian tourists with Russian tourists, then I think the Thai authorities probably prefer the Malaysians to the Russians. Which type of tourist do you think they prefer? The shopping, eating and sightseeing kind or the bar-hopping and finding "chickens" (Chinese slang for prostitutes) kind? I think the Thais are desperate to get rid of the image as the child prostitution capital of the world.

 

Btw, it's more precise to call us as Malaysians. The Malays are the largest ethnic group in Malaysia, who are mostly Muslims. The  Chinese are the second largest ethnic group in Malaysia and I believe most Malaysian tourists to Thailand are the ethnic Chinese, although the Malays are known to frequent some border towns in the south for some alcohol and "chickens". But generally, we Malaysians don't really need to go to Thailand for "chickens" because there are plenty of foreign "chickens" in Malaysian cities, and Thai "chickens" are easily found there together with the Vietnamese, Indonesians, Mainland Chinese and even Russian ones. 

[Selatan]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:44 AM, lkv said:

Yeah, so from the 9.92 million Chinese, the large majority are not independent travellers but come with tour groups where spending is kept at a minimum and the money is recycled back into the Chinese economy somehow.

Plenty of wrong and outdated ideas about the Mainland Chinese tourists:

Chinese tourists flocking to Pattaya for transgender shows, Thai food, property – but not for sex

 

Quote

“They [tour operators] still try to get tourists to buy stuff, but they are buying less. They know better now,” Paepiromrat says. “The government thought only Chinese tour operators were benefiting from the zero-dollar tours, but actually it is Thai people who own the hotels and restaurants, so we are the ones who suffered.”

Quote

“In the beginning we had a lot of [Chinese] group tours coming to Tiffany’s, but now the market has changed,” Phanthusak says. “Now we get more Chinese FIT customers than tours.”

 

[ThomasThBKK]

12 minutes ago, Selatan said:

This top ten list of spenders that you gave proves my point - you farangs are not contributing the most to Thai tourism - the Asians are. And no, this is not about how much Malaysian tourists spend vs Russian tourists. It's about non-farangs vs farangs. And if you really want to compare Malaysian tourists with Russian tourists, then I think the Thai authorities probably prefer the Malaysians to the Russians. Which type of tourist do you think they prefer? The shopping, eating and sightseeing kind or the bar-hopping and finding "chickens" (Chinese slang for prostitutes) kind? I think the Thais are desperate to get rid of the image as the child prostitution capital of the world.

 

Btw, it's more precise to call us as Malaysians. The Malays are the largest ethnic group in Malaysia, who are mostly Muslims. The  Chinese are the second largest ethnic group in Malaysia and I believe most Malaysian tourists to Thailand are the ethnic Chinese, although the Malays are known to frequent some border towns in the south for some alcohol and "chickens". But generally, we Malaysians don't really need to go to Thailand for "chickens" because there are plenty of foreign "chickens" in Malaysian cities, and Thai "chickens" are easily found there together with the Vietnamese, Indonesians, Mainland Chinese and even Russian ones. 

 

Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Indians and co are all the same as western tourists, they are also foreigners and they complain the same about immigration as we do, they simply don't speak english much and have their own forum but i am sure some are registered here. Enough indians in here who complain about immigration.

Bangkok is full of Japanese and Korean Karaoke bars,  soi cowboy is full with japanese, chinese and koreans, they even have their own patpong district, j-town and k-town and co. 

It was you who compared Malaysia to the rest of tourists, so spare us your bs about "no need to compare anything."

 

And we also don't need to go here for "chickens", it's all over Europe and the US. 

 

 

Quote

And no, this is not about how much Malaysian tourists spend vs Russian tourists. It's about non-farangs vs farangs.

 

Maybe for you as you are clearly racist.

 

Thai businesses on the other hand probaly only care how much per visitor they earn.

[touristraveler]

Another important Question..... Is my idea a solution?

My Background = Last calendar-year I was exactly 180 Days in Thailand = now, I think it is a risk for me again in BKK with this IOs.

The other way I can't go with my heavy suitcase 2 times (from/to) Vientianne Airport. 1 Time I can maybee.

I have an Idea to BYPASS by Vientianne Airport/Friendship Border Bridge.

 

The Problem is, i have a heavy suitcase and I already booked a retourn ticket from Europe to BKK Souvanabhumi.

Bevore maybee I can send my suitcase with a separately company to BKK (Maybee it comes 10 days later) and later I will pick up self in BKK.

So I will fly normal to BKK but don't go to Immigration. I will go transver/transit. The plan is to buy a single Ticket to Vientianne.

The question is....can I check-in in Bangkok Airport "only in Transit Area" to Vientianne? Is it allowed/possible?

Or is it possible to do without "send suitcase separately"? Can somebody bring me my suitcase from Airport staff inside back to the Transit area?  

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, touristraveler said:

Another important Question..... Is my idea a solution?

My Background = Last calendar-year I was exactly 180 Days in Thailand = now, I think it is a risk for me again in BKK with this IOs.

The other way I can't go with my heavy suitcase 2 times (from/to) Vientianne Airport. 1 Time I can maybee.

I have an Idea to BYPASS by Vientianne Airport/Friendship Border Bridge.

 

The Problem is, i have a heavy suitcase and I already booked a retourn ticket from Europe to BKK Souvanabhumi.

Bevore maybee I can send my suitcase with a separately company to BKK (Maybee it comes 10 days later) and later I will pick up self in BKK.

So I will fly normal to BKK but don't go to Immigration. I will go transver/transit. The plan is to buy a single Ticket to Vientianne.

The question is....can I check-in in Bangkok Airport "only in Transit Area" to Vientianne? Is it allowed/possible?

Or is it possible to do without "send suitcase separately"? Can somebody bring me my suitcase from Airport staff inside back to the Transit area?  

If you decide to send your suitcase as freight, prepare for all kinds of drama with Thai customs. Seriously, that should be your last option.

The Vientiane option with heavy luggage is never going to be hassle free. Although time consuming, if you do decide to minimise risk by using Vientiane, I would suggest crossing the border on the train. That involves very limited distances where you need to hump your luggage, and no need to try to get your cases on and off the Friendship Bridge bus.

In theory, you could use an air courier to transport your luggage in person, but that is extremely expensive, even just from Vientiane to Bangkok.

[touristraveler]

delete (double)

Edited April 20, 2019 by touristraveler

[touristraveler]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

If you decide to send your suitcase as freight, prepare for all kinds of drama with Thai customs. Seriously, that should be your last option.

The Vientiane option with heavy luggage is never going to be hassle free. Although time consuming, if you do decide to minimise risk by using Vientiane, I would suggest crossing the border on the train. That involves very limited distances where you need to hump your luggage, and no need to try to get your cases on and off the Friendship Bridge bus.

In theory, you could use an air courier to transport your luggage in person, but that is extremely expensive, even just from Vientiane to Bangkok.

OK, freight (suitcase) seems not a solution (apropos the VISA I have already)

A possibility is maybee to let the suitcase alone in the baggage claim area (BKK). And then I will go after landing directly to transver/transit and check-in my next fly to vientianne (to enter finaly in Thailand by Friendship Bridge)? Approximately 1 day later i am back in Bangkok and I will go to airport to get my suitcase through the customs?  

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, touristraveler said:

OK, freight (suitcase) seems not a solution (apropos the VISA I have already)

A possibility is maybee to let the suitcase alone in the baggage claim area (BKK). And then I will go after landing directly to transver/transit, check-in my next fly to vientianne (to enter finaly Thailand by Friendship Bridge)? Approximately 1 day later i am back in bangkok and I will go to airport to get my suitcase through the customs?  

Once your luggage is identified as uncollected in Bangkok, I am unsure what the procedure would be. It is possible the airline would realise that you had flown to Vientiane and forward your luggage there. At any rate, I would not assume you would easily be able to retrieve your luggage. If it is still in Bangkok, the authorities are going to be very suspicious about what is going on.

Edited April 20, 2019 by BritTim

[touristraveler]

21 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Once your luggage is identified as uncollected in Bangkok, I am unsure what the procedure would be. It is possible the airline would realise that you had flown to Vientiane and forward your luggage there. At any rate, I would not assume you would easily be able to retrieve your luggage. If it is still in Bangkok, the authorities are going to be very suspicious about what is going on.

The Airline to vientianne is not the same in fact. But it is possible that the first origin-airline take the suitcase back to my country of origin. 
But I could (maybee) send an email to my origin-airline and to the Airport, (and tell) that I will do a short trip to Laos and that I come back Bangkok next day. Please deposit the suitcase in the meantime.

 

But I agree, I suppose the authorities are going to be very suspicious about what is going on. Maybee after that this will be a new cause for a extra deep interrogation. Not good.... 

Edited April 20, 2019 by touristraveler

[JackThompson]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

Denied Entry at Suvarnabhumi Airport with Valid Tourist Visa and Proof of Funds (April 13, 2019)

 

I was just taken to the side after the IO was looking through my Passport and saw that I have been coming to Thailand on my 5th tourist visa, and was told that I am not allowed to travel to a different country for 1 week and come back with a Tourist Visa without returning back to my homecountry. 

There is no such law or published-rule in existence.  They lied - typical.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

I have been in Thailand for a little over 1 year now with only 4 tourist visas in my passport (Visa exempt, then TR at Hong Kong, Hanoi, Vientiane, Bali and now Philippines)  

 

One of the lady who was at the desk, a short grumpy looking old lady at the side office asked the cute girl with braces who brought me there "Nationality?" and she says "American" and she was like "Pffft Eek lah" which means "Another?" she didn't speak any English at all. But everything she kept saying to me were words that I understood like "Klab Baan Laew! Mai dai laew! Pit laew!" She asked me if I am working and I said "No, but I have passive income, so I am lucky to make enough money to support myself and my traveling", then I told her "I have 20,000 Baht cash and a Ticket Flight out to Singapore in 60 days" which is where I planned in advanced to have so I didn't run into any problems when I arrived.  But she just didn't care about any documentations I had. 

Of course she didn't.  They don't care about rules/laws.  They can do whatever they want, because there is no functioning chain of command, which would ensure consistent application of the actual laws.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

All of my visas have been from different countries, I'm actually traveling to places I've never been before, just picking up a new visa while I'm there.  She asked me why do I love Thailand so much? I said that I met my girlfriend here and now we're traveling together and I stay with her in a condo together. She kept saying "No... enough... you come to Thailand 1..2..3..4 times and you not spend any time back home yet" then she asked me "Do you understand Thai Law?" I said "Yes, it doesnt say anything is illegal about coming to Thailand many times, I have 20,000 Baht cash and Onward Ticket Flight to Singapore in 60 days" and she kept brushing it off and saying she doesn't care about it, she is talking about my "History," it's "Nan laew" "Too long already". 

There is no law or published-rule about "too long," in relation to entry with Tourist Visas. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

So after she stamped my passport, and filled out the paperwork it has written "Insufficient Funds" Lol. Which is a lie, because I have the funds required by law with a Tourist Visa which is 20,000 Baht and I saw it on a sign right there in the office hanging on the wall, "For visa exempt entry, you must show 10,000 Baht or equivalent and for Tourist Visa you must show 20,000 Baht"

There is a "no tips" sign somewhere, but that doesn't apply to agent-fee loot, etc.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

I was then met with Airline staff and he escorted me upstairs to a hallway filled with other foreigners, I'm guessing this was the detention center because it felt like I was in a jail cell just waiting and not knowing how long I would be there and who will come and talk to me and what they would say....

 

Me vs Thai Airlines staff:

I was then escorted to Thai Airlines office, and they told me that I need to book a flight OUT of BKK WITH a Return Ticket showing me flying back into BKK. I was so confused and tried to fight it and say "Why do I need a Return flight back to BKK? I'm not flying back to this Airport."

 

Then I also wanted to book the next ticket out using "Thai Smiles" but they said I can not use Thai Smiles, I can only use "Thai Airlines" and the next flight out wasn't until 24 hours later. So that means I had no choice but to spend 24 hours stuck in this place.  So I booked a one way ticket from BKK to VTE. Then they argued with me and said I also need to book VTE-BKK.  I said "Don't worry about it. I will just go to Vieantiane and use the land border to go to Udon" And she said "No can not! If you go to Vientiane, the Immigration Officer will see the rejection stamp in your passport, and it is possible they will deny your entry into the country there and you need to have this ticket to show you can come back!"  But this was a  lie and I don't know why they are telling people this?

They wanted to sell 2 tickets?  I think they may have a sharing arrangement of commissions with immigration.  Corruption is the primary function  in many immigration offices, and since there is no logical reason for what was done to you, dirty-money is the logical explanation.

 

Is the source of the corruption-money paying for this agenda the airlines, elite, agents, foreign-agents, or what subset of them?  That's the only real question.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

I don't know why Immigration would deny my entry to Lao just because of a denial of entry from Thailand.  The Thai Airlines staff were treating this denial stamp like it was a death penalty, or like I was a criminal who overstayed my Visa and got banned, but the reality is, it just means "You can not enter at this time but you can try again" and like everyone here reports, there is absolutely no issues at any land borders because there is no thai law that states anything about how many times you can fly to Thailand and there's many people who have been doing this for 5+ years. All the issues are coming from Suvarnabhumi and  Don Mueng Airport.

... and the Poipet/Aranya border-crossing.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

 I couldn't leave the detention center unless I showed proof that I booked a Round Trip ticket out of BKK, via Thai Airlines. I told her I just want to book a One Way Trip because I'm not flying back to this airport so that's a waste.  If there is a problem at the airport I arrive in then, I can easily just book another ticket on the App once I arrive there. But she still wouldn't let me do this.... and I had no choice after she said "If you dont show a return ticket out, then we can not let you board this flight to Vientiane...." so I said "Fine, I'm gonna make the booking for next month and then dispute it and get a refund on my credit card once I land in Vientiane" lol

 

She asked what my plan was when I arrive in Vientiane and asked if I will go back to my home country after Vientiane....... I told her, I'm gonna come back to Thailand via Land Border and fly from Udon to Bangkok.  She kept saying "NO! you can NOT! You already have denial stamp in your passport." And I said "Yes. This reason written says "Insufficient Funds". And That's not true at all. Immigration didn't ask me to see anything.  I have sufficient funds. How can I book these flights?? Going to Vientiane on Thai Airlines is not cheap. She said nothing. 

Beautiful.  I love how you handled these scheming *s.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

The Thai Airlines staff was taking sides with the Immigration Officers decision and thought that this was like I am being banned from Thailand for coming too much. I kept saying "This doesnt mean I'm banned. It just means I am not allowed entry at this time from this airport. I have a Valid Visa here from the Embassy in Philippines that I can still use..."  and Thai Airway staff even tried to tell me "You will have a problem when you arrive in Don Mueng Airport Immigration from Udon" I chuckled a bit, because I knew this was a lie and said "I don't go through Immigration at Don Mueng flying from Udon because it's a Domestic flight... I'll have my Visa stamped from the Thai Lao Border" and she said nothing! It seems like they just have all this negative theories of things that are not true. What do they gain from spewing all of these lies.. just hate for westerners or what.

One fellow - they rejected his entry on an METV - was told they did it because he used law-abiding land-borders for some previous METV entries. 

There are honest IOs at many entry-points, but the corrupt * IOs HATE them.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

The way they treat you is like you are a criminal who committed a crime, you have no freedom, they leave you waiting for hours and then put you in a room full of other guys who look like they've been sitting on the streets begging for money all day long. All this because you are traveling to other countries and coming back to Thailand with a Tourist Visa 4+ times.

 

So after everything negative they said to me. I realized that none of it were true. They were scare mongering me hardcore.  I boarded my flight from BKK to Vientiane. Paid $35 for my Visa on Arrival. No questions asked. I took a Taxi straight to the Thai-Lao Friendship Bridge. That was 500฿ from the Airport. Feels like I got ripped off but I didn't care I just wanted to get on my flight at Udon.  Then I paid the 40฿ to stamp out of Lao, no questions asked on why I stamped in and stamped out on the same day. Then I hauled the bus over to the Thai side, and filled out a new TM6 form with my Visa number, gave my passport to the IO, he looks at me, and  actually smiles! He stamps me in with no questions asked! 

He is an honest IO, and was likely happy you love Thailand enough to keep coming and helping his fellow citizens with your spending.  I get smiles at Issan entry points also  Many likely have farang family members, and see that their married-to-farang relative has a good life as a direct-result. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, acenase said:

I enter with my tourist visa stamped used and my 60 day stamp just asking myself "Why??" All of that drama at the airport and lies about how I need to book a flight to my country, only to be stamped in like a normal person at Lao and Thai and they don't say a single word to me even though i have the denial stamp right there next to my unused visa. So if you're one of those guys who are doing the Tourist visa thing, just stay away from Airports from now on or expect the inevitable to happen to you.

Why?  Because they are in the business of corruption at the BKK airports.  Imagine a country whose govt is so dysfunctional, that their capital-city airports are taken over by what amounts to a "gang."  I don't have an issue with the military, generally - prefer almost anything to reds - but that they let this group, with their schemes and charade of lies, continue operating like this for months at their capital-airports, demonstrates total-incompetence.  It's sad.  Thais deserve better. 

 

Glad to hear you made it back in w/o issue.