giddyup Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, Tuvoc said: Really ? So if your blood pressure and cholesterol are normal thanks to the tablets you take, you can't get cover ? There would probably be insurance exclusions for any illness remotely connected to either BP or Cholesterol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, giddyup said: Depends on the illness, but 800,000 baht won't go far in a private hospital. Definitely not. You need 3-5 million. Even for care in a government hospital should have 1 million available. And in both cases, a clear plan on what you will do after that is all spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tuvoc said: Really ? So if your blood pressure and cholesterol are normal thanks to the tablets you take, you can't get cover ? Insurers vary greatly in how they handle this. You will be asked to provide full details and likely a medical report. Then see what the underwriter comes back with. The more details provided the better. i have known Cigna to accept people on BP medication without exclusion if their BP was normal on meds and they had never required treatment for a complication linked to it. But that is no guarantee they will in every case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Sheryl said: Definitely not. You need 3-5 million. Even for care in a government hospital should have 1 million available. And in both cases, a clear plan on what you will do after that is all spent. I plan on dying peacefully in my sleep after all money has gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraynz Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Pilotman said: we had this debate on TV less then 2 weeks ago, it's been done to death on here. ididnt know...but i find it so amazing that sheryl can be an expert on at least three major professions.. i find it very strange that somebody, if a doctor, would give medical advise on this forum , without personal consultation... at least her opinions arent sarcastic like so many comments appear to be {bored subscribers}-- i didnt realize that one person could be an expert on so many subjects....thats my two cents worth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraynz Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, giddyup said: There would probably be insurance exclusions for any illness remotely connected to either BP or Cholesterol. i am 68yrs old, have been on bp meds for yrs, no other ailments....my bp approx 115/79 is good. Cigna claimed that i can get insurance cover, no exclusions......but im not prepared to 'risk it' with them.... i could reduce the premium by paying annualy, also by having a higher excess.... their cover appeared to be quite good--- i travel a lot, so could get cover, if in any other country for less than 21 days, plus up 180 days in nz.pa.. still too risky for me---what about when the premium substantially increases at 80yrs old, ive never made a claim---all my premiums would be wasted, if i decided to cancel... insurnce companies arent charities, its like gambling--- its ALL very much in their favour..profit, profit, profit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 As long as it's not ME i am ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fugitive Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 This subject cannot be discussed often enough. New TV members need making aware and older ones reminding of what they should do. Thanks to Sheryl for highlighting the problems. I have a question; There must be many of us who believe that if we suffered say a stroke or an accident that left us paralysed or worse still in a vegetative state we would not want to survive. In hospitals you can ask for the medical records of your dying next of kin to be marked 'Do not resuscitate'. Apart from making your wishes known and maybe wearing a bracelet/medallion with a suitable inscription is there any way to ensure your wishes are complied with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Well,I was recently 3 days in a public hospital (closest one) cos inflammation and kidney stones.Terrible abdominal pain.I was on the infusion 72 hours and got the antibiotics and pain killers intravenously .I had a lot of medical examinations on a daily basis.Medical personnel were nice to me and very professional (I speak Thai).Medical bill was about 4600 BHT. Very cheap as I was expected about 20K.If I was in private hospital bill would be much more,maybe 5-10 time more.Next week I need to go to urological clinic for the laser breakdown of kidney stones.I got a referral.So in a public hospitals it is not expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, Sheryl said: Definitely not. You need 3-5 million. Even for care in a government hospital should have 1 million available. And in both cases, a clear plan on what you will do after that is all spent. Have You ever been in a public hospital? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Sheryl said: A single hospitalization can use that up. What is your plan for replenishing it? Not in public hospitals.They will not rip you off.NOT TRUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 My GF and friends have been asked to take me to a public hospital in the event of a medical emergency. I have full private health cover in Australia if I can make it to an airport. While I have enough funds here and in Australia to meet a medical emergency, I fail to see why greedy insurers and avaricious private hospitals should be part of my planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fugitive Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, murraynz said: i am 68yrs old, have been on bp meds for yrs, no other ailments....my bp approx 115/79 is good. Cigna claimed that i can get insurance cover, no exclusions......but im not prepared to 'risk it' with them.... i could reduce the premium by paying annualy, also by having a higher excess.... their cover appeared to be quite good--- i travel a lot, so could get cover, if in any other country for less than 21 days, plus up 180 days in nz.pa.. still too risky for me---what about when the premium substantially increases at 80yrs old, ive never made a claim---all my premiums would be wasted, if i decided to cancel... insurnce companies arent charities, its like gambling--- its ALL very much in their favour..profit, profit, profit..... Your health sounds excellent. As will be the case with all of us, at some point, unfortunately, it won't be. If you travel so much, would it be worth taking out travel insurance for your trips on the basis that medical cover for your travels is better than none at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fugitive Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, vukovar77 said: Not in public hospitals.They will not rip you off.NOT TRUE. Depends upon what treatment is necessary. Brain surgery even in a Government hospital can run into the millions of baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 minute ago, The Fugitive said: Depends upon what treatment is necessary. Brain surgery even in a Government hospital can run into the millions of baht. OK,maybe,but even that it will be 5-10 times cheaper than in a public one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fugitive Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lacessit said: My GF and friends have been asked to take me to a public hospital in the event of a medical emergency. I have full private health cover in Australia if I can make it to an airport. While I have enough funds here and in Australia to meet a medical emergency, I fail to see why greedy insurers and avaricious private hospitals should be part of my planning. Absolutely. It's all about choices. We need to be able to take out a medical plan to give us the same cover as a Thai in Government hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMuhammad Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I have: -Kor Ror Bor on both my bikes - 30K -Asia Insurance on both - 50K -Pacific Cross Health - 5mil plus extras -5mil baht in a term deposit in my home country. I was recently hospitalised with the flu and pneumonia for a week at a cost of 190K, insurance paid out immediately and I had a minor bike accident 2 weeks ago, broke 2 bones in my pinky, dislocated 2 joints and 14 stitches, and Kor Ror Bor covered all hospital bills. If you’re honest from from the outset there is no real reason an insurer will deny payment. As to self insuring, which I have enough funds to do, for the sake of 34K a year (my PC cover) it doesn’t make sense for me not to. Even if my premiums rose to 100K a year I would still purchase cover. For those that plan on flying to their home country all the best to you. I just hope you’re not on life support, lost a limb, suffered a stroke etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraynz Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Sheryl said: I am not an insurance broker. But I have spent years assisting expats with health issues in Thailand and seen countless tragedies caused by lack of insurance. There is nothing at all wrong with self insuring if it is done properly and the person really has enough money for it. Which means 3-5 million baht readily available and the means to replenish it or, failing that, a clear plan to repatriate after it is spent. In my experience not one person in 100 who calls themselves "self insured" meets that criteria. Many are simply uninsured. others have greatly underestimated the potential costs and are unprepared for it when their savings are abruptly wiped out. you dont talk about all the people who are 'uninsureable' or those that have legitimite claims rejected. ive never been a smoker, how do these people get insurance cover ? i have funds available, but also have substantial ongoing income available--rents from lge commercial property. will continue well past my lifetime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix38 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 What I did. I am from UK. If return to UK annually get travel insurance - much better and cheaper. Direct-travel do not require previous 6 months stay in uk. In Thailand I got a health plan with a big excess that covered the major immediate items that stopped me flying and that would keep me needing care in Thailand, but would otherwise break the bank. The excess made the cost acceptable and for anything else - minor or where flying is possible I.e. cancer diagnosis and most things, I would return to UK where imv and plenty of experience its much better to not be in Thailand for hit/miss medical treatment. I would far rather have NHS and when non urgent the wait to qualify or even be seen is an acceptable balance of risks versus costs. Can add an inexpensive accident insurance whilst in Thailand for the motorbike and/or otherwise I think the only thing missing would be cover for minor stuff that I would self finance. Now I stay in UK far longer and do travel insurance option. Higher cover for less. These days I prefer UK in summer and Thailand in winter and to avoid Thai healthcare for my health. Not to mention air quality and pesticides on/in food in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 hour ago, giddyup said: There would probably be insurance exclusions for any illness remotely connected to either BP or Cholesterol. Yup... In my case they wanted to exclude... All cardiovascular & heart related issues... All urinary and prostate issues... All liver and kidney issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said: I have: -Kor Ror Bor on both my bikes - 30K -Asia Insurance on both - 50K -Pacific Cross Health - 5mil plus extras -5mil baht in a term deposit in my home country. I was recently hospitalised with the flu and pneumonia for a week at a cost of 190K, insurance paid out immediately and I had a minor bike accident 2 weeks ago, broke 2 bones in my pinky, dislocated 2 joints and 14 stitches, and Kor Ror Bor covered all hospital bills. If you’re honest from from the outset there is no real reason an insurer will deny payment. As to self insuring, which I have enough funds to do, for the sake of 34K a year (my PC cover) it doesn’t make sense for me not to. Even if my premiums rose to 100K a year I would still purchase cover. For those that plan on flying to their home country all the best to you. I just hope you’re not on life support, lost a limb, suffered a stroke etc 190K per a week?It must be a private hospital.In a public I recon not more than 12K per a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, sfokevin said: Yup... In my case they wanted to exclude... All cardiovascular & heart related issues... All urinary and prostate issues... All liver and kidney issues... Yeah.So I will never do insurance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amexpat Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, vukovar77 said: If you’re honest from from the outset there is no real reason an insurer will deny payment. ???? Good one! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraynz Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, The Fugitive said: Your health sounds excellent. As will be the case with all of us, at some point, unfortunately, it won't be. If you travel so much, would it be worth taking out travel insurance for your trips on the basis that medical cover for your travels is better than none at all? yes, i do often take out travel insurance for short trips---fortunately, i have never needed to make any claims.. can anybody advise what their health insurance premiums are at age 75 and 80.. im expecting to live well into my 90s ---most on my fathers side have done so... my main concern is heart attack or traffic accident in thailand{ very bad driving there}.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraynz Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, sfokevin said: Yup... In my case they wanted to exclude... All cardiovascular & heart related issues... All urinary and prostate issues... All liver and kidney issues... says it all...pointless trying to insure.. Cigna claimed to make no exclusions in my quotes ?? makes me even more suspicious of them ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, vukovar77 said: 190K per a week?It must be a private hospital.In a public I recon not more than 12K per a week! In a government hospital you can run up a bill of 1 million baht in a week. Or a bill of 25K in a week. It entirely depends on what treatment is given. In both private and government hospitals the daily room charge is not the main expense. I can't offhand think of anything that would require you to be in a government hospital for a whole week and cost only 12k, though. Government hospitals are reliably cheaper than private for the same care, no question on that. By a factor of anywhere from 2-4 fold. But do not underestimate what a government hospital will cost you in case of a really major accident or catastrophic illness requiring specialized surgeries and prolonged ICU care. Even for elective procedures, depending on what they are, can run a lot more than you might think. Recent examples in my own household and acquaintances 1- Appendicidal abscess: initial hospitalization (including CT and barium enema to make the diagnosis) - about 25k, subsequent admission for appendectomy 20K. Both admissions around 5 day stay, private room for most of the time. 2 - Back surgery - decompression laminectomy with instrumentation, multiple levels: 260k. 5 day stay. the 10 fold difference between this and the first 2 admissions is mainly due to the cost of the titanium implants used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, murraynz said: yes, i do often take out travel insurance for short trips---fortunately, i have never needed to make any claims.. can anybody advise what their health insurance premiums are at age 75 and 80.. im expecting to live well into my 90s ---most on my fathers side have done so... my main concern is heart attack or traffic accident in thailand{ very bad driving there}.. Expat health insurance for someone aged 75 and over will usually run between USD 3,500 - 5000 per year. Only a couple of insurers will issue new policies past age 75 so best to insure before then, but a healthy 75 or 80 year old can if necessary get a policy. Helahty being the operatiev word. If you spend significant portion of each year back home then travel insurance makes good sense as opposed to full health insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monomial Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, sfokevin said: Yup... In my case they wanted to exclude... All cardiovascular & heart related issues... All urinary and prostate issues... All liver and kidney issues... What really pisses me off about those sleazy insurance companies when they do this, is that they never reduce your premiums to match the reduced coverage. They are quite happy to offer you a policy that only covers 50% of ailments, but the premiums aren't reduced by 50%. When they exclude a condition, they should be required by law to estimate how much that exclusion reduces their risk profile against a normal healthy person of the same age that they would normally cover, and then credit that amount against your premium. Otherwise, exclusions are nothing more than a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vukovar77 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sheryl said: In a government hospital you can run up a bill of 1 million baht in a week. Or a bill of 25K in a week. It entirely depends on what treatment is given. In both private and government hospitals the daily room charge is not the main expense. I can't offhand think of anything that would require you to be in a government hospital for a whole week and cost only 12k, though. Government hospitals are reliably cheaper than private for the same care, no question on that. By a factor of anywhere from 2-4 fold. But do not underestimate what a government hospital will cost you in case of a really major accident or catastrophic illness requiring specialized surgeries and prolonged ICU care. Even for elective procedures, depending on what they are, can run a lot more than you might think. Recent examples in my own household and acquaintances 1- Appendicidal abscess: initial hospitalization (including CT and barium enema to make the diagnosis) - about 25k, subsequent admission for appendectomy 20K. Both admissions around 5 day stay, private room for most of the time. 2 - Back surgery - decompression laminectomy with instrumentation, multiple levels: 260k. 5 day stay. the 10 fold difference between this and the first 2 admissions is mainly due to the cost of the titanium implants used. I just come back from public hospital (kidneys)and I wrote about my bill ! 4500 BHT for a 3 days .You work for a insurance?Next week I am going to Urological hospital to make a laser procedure to destroy kidney stones.I will let You know about new bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, murraynz said: says it all...pointless trying to insure.. Cigna claimed to make no exclusions in my quotes ?? makes me even more suspicious of them ?? It is hardly "pointless". Cigna is a reliable company. A TV member recently had a total of over 6 million baht paid out by them in 2 separate events just a year or two apart, with no difficulty at all. BTW they did not "claim to make no exclusions" there are standard exclusions in all insurance policies (cosmetic procedures, injuries due to suicide attempt etc etc). I think what you mean is that they did nto apply any special exclusions to you specifically. As long as you completed the application truthfully and did not withhold information asked for then you are good to go. Insurers do differ significantly ow they respond to the same information regarding current or prior health problems, especially if they are now resolved or stable. It is well worth trying more than one company and if one comes back with so many exclusions as to make the policy of little value try a different company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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