Do you believe in God and why

[jvs]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We can choose to be good or we can choose to be bad.

So we can choose to do good things or choose to do bad things.

Can a smoker quit?Free will.

Can an alcoholic stop drinking? Free will.

You have to forgive me for being sceptical but i seem to have a hard time

keeping religion and 'god' separated.

Very bad experience with religion and the people around it.

When people steal something they know they are wrong?

Still they do it,i do not believe that atheists commit more crimes or worse crimes

then so called religious people.

Is it safe to say all religious people believe in god?

I am not accepting the same old arguments that people use to try and convince me

they are right and i am wrong.I have heard them all.

 

[yodsak]

On 12/25/2019 at 11:05 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

The Big Bang cannot be tested.  It cannot be proven.  And the evidence to controvert it is growing, even if you choose not to look at it.

 

On 12/25/2019 at 11:05 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I've just read up a bit more about free will. 

Interestingly, regardless if free will actually exists or not, the simple act of believing that it exists makes you behave in a significantly better way than if you believe our actions are predetermined.

"For Baumeister, believing that we are free leads us to act as though we are, and he and his colleagues (Baumeister, Masicampo, & DeWall, 2009) have conducted experiments indicating that telling people that they have no free will leads them to behave in socially irresponsible ways such as cheating and refusing to help others."

Many books could be written on free will, without getting a satisfying answer.

I stand by my point, that if we look at it by a physical perspective, for obvious reasons it will never be pure.

As physical beings we have always to choose "the less evil".

I remember a P. Tosh song: "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die".

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, jvs said:

Is it safe to say all religious people believe in god?

Nope, but i think it's safe to say that the spiritual being in you wants you to think freely.

The simple fact that you are here and asking questions to yourself, tells me that you are on the good path.

[soalbundy]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:34 PM, CMNightRider said:

Food for Thought

 

There are more historical records regarding the existence of Jesus Christ than the Roman Emperor Julius Caesar, yet no one doubts the latter walked the earth.  

 

During the decades immediately after Jesus crucifixion — when the New Testament was written and the Gospel was being preached by those who knew him — there would have been ample opportunity to refute the accounts of his resurrection.  This didn't happen.  

 

Most of Jesus’ 12 original apostles died violent deaths for their faith.  People will die for what they believe to be true, but dying for what they know is a lie is not likely.  Keep in mind, the 12 original apostles witnessed Jesus healing the sick, making the blind see, saw Jesus walking on water, and bringing back the dead, along with seeing Jesus alive after his crucifixion.  

 

To deny God and Jesus, will be the biggest mistake anyone could ever make in their lifetime.  When I read some of these anti-Christan comments on this site, is makes me wonder why so many would want to spend eternity in Hell.  Heaven or Hell, it's your choice.  

 

Matthew 10:33 - But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:32 - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

What historical records are you talking about ? Even in the bible there are no first person accounts of his life eg. "Jesus said to me..." Julius Caesar's life is well documented, not only through other peoples reports but also from his own writings.

As for heaven he said that heaven is not a place it is within you.

[soalbundy]

Believing is not knowing, it is just that, a belief. You Know it is Friday today, no need to believe it. Don't believe anything, if you don't know it it isn't important.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, jvs said:

So we can choose to do good things or choose to do bad things.

Can a smoker quit?Free will.

Can an alcoholic stop drinking? Free will.

You have to forgive me for being sceptical but i seem to have a hard time

keeping religion and 'god' separated.

Very bad experience with religion and the people around it.

When people steal something they know they are wrong?

Still they do it,i do not believe that atheists commit more crimes or worse crimes

then so called religious people.

Is it safe to say all religious people believe in god?

I am not accepting the same old arguments that people use to try and convince me

they are right and i am wrong.I have heard them all.

 

Define "religious". If you mean people that SAY they are religious but don't ACT good, then they don't believe in God. They are only Sunday Christians or Friday Muslims etc.

If you mean religious people that are good, then chances are high they believe in God.

 

It is not necessary to be religious to believe in God though, and just believing does not necessarily make them good. However, those that believe are more likely to be good than those that believe in nothing. Why be good if one has no soul to lose?

I'm not saying that not believing means one is bad. Everyone has a conscience.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

God has nothing against prostitutes.

You might think so until you have read some of the thoughts on the subject to be found in God's Word.  The Bible writer with more experience with women than perhaps most anyone posting here, King Solomon, who had 300 wives and 700 concubines, learned from his experiences and eventually came away with the following nuggets of wisdom.  Had he been granted to a "do over" for his life, I believe he would have chosen a different path.  Take a look.
 

Quote

 

Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. (Proverbs 31:3)

For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.  She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.  (Proverbs 23:27-28)

For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil: But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword. Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.  (Proverbs 5:3-5)

For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,  
And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,  
Passing through the street near her corner; and he In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:  
And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtle of heart.  
(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:  
Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)  
So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,  
I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.  
Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.  
I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.  
I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.  
Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.  
For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:  
He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.  
With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.  
He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;  
Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.  
Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.  
Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.  
For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.  
Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.  (Proverbs 7:6-27)
 

A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing.  
For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city,  
To call passengers who go right on their ways:  
Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,  
Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.  
But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.  (Proverbs 9:13-18)

 

 

[canuckamuck]

25 minutes ago, jvs said:

So we can choose to do good things or choose to do bad things.

Can a smoker quit?Free will.

Can an alcoholic stop drinking? Free will.

You have to forgive me for being sceptical but i seem to have a hard time

keeping religion and 'god' separated.

Very bad experience with religion and the people around it.

When people steal something they know they are wrong?

Still they do it,i do not believe that atheists commit more crimes or worse crimes

then so called religious people.

Is it safe to say all religious people believe in god?

I am not accepting the same old arguments that people use to try and convince me

they are right and i am wrong.I have heard them all.

 

Very many smokers have stopped smoking, drinkers have quit, so the obvious answer is yes. If the battle doesn't kill you than you have time to fight back and find ways to win. Free will includes choosing to find ways to win.  

The ability to resist temporary pleasure for greater reward is an indicator of future success.

Is everyone that believes in God religious? That depends on your definition of religious.

For me religion is an ascribed ritual or routine that is done by adherents of a religion.

I can believe in giraffe's without becoming a zookeeper.

What you do with your belief may or may not make you religious. Religion is another word for superstition, so I work to avoid being religious. 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

You have to forgive me for being sceptical but i seem to have a hard time

keeping religion and 'god' separated.

Take a book about pure love for example. 
Religion is the physical book, it can come in many different sizes, can be a paperback, a hard cover, a luxury limited edition, can be ancient or contemporary and so on. What they all have in common is that they write about love. Love in this example, is the topic and content of he book and represents God.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

You might think so until you have read some of the thoughts on the subject to be found in God's Word.  The Bible writer with more experience with women than perhaps most anyone posting here, King Solomon, who had 300 wives and 700 concubines, learned from his experiences and eventually came away with the following nuggets of wisdom.  Had he been granted to a "do over" for his life, I believe he would have chosen a different path.  Take a look.
 

 

There is nothing there to say that God does not approve of prostitutes. Solomon was not God'

 

Far better to take the teachings of Jesus to heart as regards prostitutes.

[soalbundy]

Maybe Trump is the chosen one, God and Trump seem to have a lot in common, the need for anger management, narcissistic behaviour, jealousy, etc. God is an invention of man and therefore all the failings of man show themselves, the need to be worshipped, revenge if not accepted, genocide, punishment for non conformers. Heaven is built up rather like an early court of the kings in that era, a kingdom, a throne, courtiers (angels), power hungry, law making, punishments rewards etc. It's a lot of bullocks. 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is nothing there to say that God does not approve of prostitutes. Solomon was not God'

 

Far better to take the teachings of Jesus to heart as regards prostitutes.

Right, who is without sin, throw the first stone... And nobody dared to do it.

[AsianAtHeart]

25 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

What historical records are you talking about ? Even in the bible there are no first person accounts of his life eg. "Jesus said to me..." Julius Caesar's life is well documented, not only through other peoples reports but also from his own writings.

As for heaven he said that heaven is not a place it is within you.

The Bible is absolutely full of first-person accounts.  John, one of Jesus' disciples, wrote the following, almost as if in anticipation of doubters that might question the validity of the disciples' witness.

 

Quote

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.  (1 John 1:1-5)

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Maybe Trump is the chosen one, God and Trump seem to have a lot in common, the need for anger management, narcissistic behaviour, jealousy, etc. God is an invention of man and therefore all the failings of man show themselves, the need to be worshipped, revenge if not accepted, genocide, punishment for non conformers. Heaven is built up rather like an early court of the kings in that era, a kingdom, a throne, courtiers (angels), power hungry, law making, punishments rewards etc. It's a lot of bullocks. 

That's right. Ascribing human traits to God is indeed bullocks....same as comparing God to Trump. ???? 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It's a lot of bullocks. 

Not sure you are aware of it, but your vision of the world is "filtered" through your ideas, preconceptions, experience and whatnot.

What you think can be true for yourself, but not necessarily for another living being.

[Sunmaster]

Quick parentheses on the 'free will' subject. This is part of an article in the NYTimes I found interesting. It shows that our perception of free will is rather fluid and not black/white at all.

 

Suppose that Mark and Bill live in a deterministic universe. Everything that happens this morning — like Mark’s decision to wear a blue shirt, or Bill’s latest attempt to comb over his bald spot — is completely caused by whatever happened before it.

If you recreated this universe starting with the Big Bang and let all events proceed exactly the same way until this same morning, then the blue shirt is as inevitable as the comb-over.

 

Now for questions from experimental philosophers:

1) In this deterministic universe, is it possible for a person to be fully morally responsible for his actions?

2) This year, as he has often done in the past, Mark arranges to cheat on his taxes. Is he fully morally responsible for his actions?

3) Bill falls in love with his secretary, and he decides that the only way to be with her is to murder his wife and three children. Before leaving on a trip, he arranges for them to be killed while he is away. Is Bill fully morally responsible for his actions?

To a classic philosopher, these are just three versions of the same question about free will. But to the new breed of philosophers who test people’s responses to concepts like determinism, there are crucial differences, as Shaun Nichols explains in the current issue of Science.

Most respondents will absolve the unspecified person in Question 1 from full responsibility for his actions, and a majority will also give Mark a break for his tax chiseling. But not Bill. He’s fully to blame for his heinous crime, according to more than 70 percent of the people queried by Dr. Nichols, an experimental philosopher at the University of Arizona, and his Yale colleague Joshua Knobe.

Is Bill being judged illogically? In one way, yes. The chain of reasoning may seem flawed to some philosophers, and the belief in free will may seem naïve to the psychologists and neuroscientists who argue that we’re driven by forces beyond our conscious control — an argument that Bill’s lawyer might end up borrowing in court.

But in another way it makes perfect sense to hold Bill fully accountable for murder. His judges pragmatically intuit that regardless of whether free will exists, our society depends on everyone’s believing it does. The benefits of this belief have been demonstrated in other research showing that when people doubt free will, they do worse at their jobs and are less honest.

 

Full article here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/science/22tier.html

[jvs]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Very many smokers have stopped smoking, drinkers have quit, so the obvious answer is yes.

Many smokers and drinkers are still doing it,free will?

I do not think free will is as easy as it sounds.

The things you learned as a child guide or haunt you for the rest of your life.

I mean to say if you are born into one religion that is usually the religion

you will stay in.

If you learn your god is named allah then that is the one you believe in.

I have always looked with disgust at the arrogance of people who say their god

is the only one,there are many.!!

[jvs]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

does not necessarily make them good. However, those that believe are more likely to be good than those that believe in nothing. Why be good if one has no soul to lose?

This goes straight against what i believe,why would unbelievers be worse people?

People do bad things because?

On the other hand people do good things,why?

I believe so called good deeds are not really that,it is part of a reward system.

The person who buys a kid icecream does it because?In the end it makes him feel better.

He is rewarding himself,many more examples to give but i hope you catch my drift.

I have met atheists who are far better people then the people who condemn them.

Isnt god all about forgiveness and not judging other people?

Then again that is only one god out of 3000.

 

[canuckamuck]

11 minutes ago, jvs said:

Many smokers and drinkers are still doing it,free will?

I do not think free will is as easy as it sounds.

The things you learned as a child guide or haunt you for the rest of your life.

I mean to say if you are born into one religion that is usually the religion

you will stay in.

If you learn your god is named allah then that is the one you believe in.

I have always looked with disgust at the arrogance of people who say their god

is the only one,there are many.!!

Some have quit, some have not, this is free will. Are you suggesting some are smoking and drinking against their will?

Of course it isn't easy. but many choices lead us to difficult situations. even by accident.

You are free to think, that is the main point though. Actions are different than thoughts and some things we are not free to do. But we are free to think what we like.

You believe there are many gods, no one forced you to think that.

Personally I have less problem with someone who says there are many ways to see God, than someone who says there are many.

Many for me is problematic. One creator makes more sense, but that is just me. multiple gods brings the problem of back story and who made what, very messy.

 

 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Many for me is problematic. One creator makes more sense, but that is just me. multiple gods brings the problem of back story and who made what, very messy.

 

 

Nothing messy imho.

One Supreme Being, the eternal non-born. The mystery of the Trinity. One is Three.

Would you question His/Her ability to appear/incarnate into different forms ?

[sirineou]

27 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Some have quit, some have not, this is free will. Are you suggesting some are smoking and drinking against their will?

Of course it isn't easy. but many choices lead us to difficult situations. even by accident.

You are free to think, that is the main point though. Actions are different than thoughts and some things we are not free to do. But we are free to think what we like.

You believe there are many gods, no one forced you to think that.

Personally I have less problem with someone who says there are many ways to see God, than someone who says there are many.

Many for me is problematic. One creator makes more sense, but that is just me. multiple gods brings the problem of back story and who made what, very messy.

 

 

  You are free to think only within the limits of your genetic and social upbringing.

  In other words the jail inmate is free to walk , but only within the confines of his jail cell.

 Escapes  from jail do happen but more often than not we re apprehended and returned to jail, sometimes we even return voluntarily. Those who remain at large are few and far inbetween.Sad to report I am not one of them. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by sirineou

[ThaiBunny]

I had a chat to God only a few moments ago and She told me to stop wasting my time on this thread

[Tagged]

19 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 

Personally I have less problem with someone who says there are many ways to see God, than someone who says there are many.

Many for me is problematic. One creator makes more sense, but that is just me. multiple gods brings the problem of back story and who made what, very messy.

 

 

This is quite interesting reading, and shows how we create our own truths how it suits us. Im sure there have been many people who bending the stories trough time until they finely managed to pin it down like a factory and mass copy the book the stories under stright supervision and stright rules. Now when it is no risk having personal view on religion, chaos erupts when everybody is going to find themselves and have their personal religion. 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

I had a chat to God only a few moments ago and She told me to stop wasting my time on this thread

You should listen to her. Many more threads for you to waste your time in.

[canuckamuck]

37 minutes ago, Tagged said:

This is quite interesting reading, and shows how we create our own truths how it suits us. Im sure there have been many people who bending the stories trough time until they finely managed to pin it down like a factory and mass copy the book the stories under stright supervision and stright rules. Now when it is no risk having personal view on religion, chaos erupts when everybody is going to find themselves and have their personal religion. 

And of course you haven't created your own truth.

[canuckamuck]

57 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Nothing messy imho.

One Supreme Being, the eternal non-born. The mystery of the Trinity. One is Three.

Would you question His/Her ability to appear/incarnate into different forms ?

Different forms, but not multiple entities. The trinity describes Himself as one with three aspects

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

Different forms, but not multiple entities. The trinity describes Himself as one with three aspects

Agree.

If we start to discuss semantics we could go on forever.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Agree.

If we start to discuss semantics we could go on forever.

Where if we keep it simple , we should have this god thing wrapped up in no time at all.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Where if we keep it simple , we should have this god thing wrapped up in no time at all.

Hey, wait a second, my aim is to unwrap the thing !