Do you believe in God and why

[Tagged]

9 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

And of course you haven't created your own truth.

That I born on planet earth and the sun give us life? From ashes to ashes and dust to dust? And the planet earth is travelling trough the universe. I believe that is part of the proven truth. Quite simple, but that how it is in this complexed world we are living in. For the rest, I truly do not state anything because I do not know. What I feel, is something different, but thats only what I feel, and for sure not necessery the truth, because my feeling changes the longer I live and the more I read, understand and experience. 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Tagged said:

That I born on planet earth and the sun give us life? From ashes to ashes and dust to dust? And the planet earth is travelling trough the universe. I believe that is part of the proven truth. Quite simple, but that how it is in this complexed world we are living in. For the rest, I truly do not state anything because I do not know. What I feel, is something different, but thats only what I feel, and for sure not necessery the truth, because my feeling changes the longer I live and the more I read, understand and experience. 

As John Lennon said ""The more I see the less I know for sure". That's an echo of earlier comments from, say, John Adams: "The longer I live, the more I read, the more patiently I think, and the more anxiously I inquire, the less I seem to know ... Do justly. Love mercy. Walk humbly".

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

That I born on planet earth and the sun give us life? From ashes to ashes and dust to dust? And the planet earth is travelling trough the universe. I believe that is part of the proven truth. Quite simple, but that how it is in this complexed world we are living in. For the rest, I truly do not state anything because I do not know. What I feel, is something different, but thats only what I feel, and for sure not necessery the truth, because my feeling changes the longer I live and the more I read, understand and experience. 

Good !

Among the perception by the physical senses, the complexity of the feelings and the proven truth lies the path to a higher consciousness.

My belief is the same, and i have faith in the Spirit to correct me when i lose the right path ????

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

As John Lennon said ""The more I see the less I know for sure". That's an echo of earlier comments from, say, John Adams: "The longer I live, the more I read, the more patiently I think, and the more anxiously I inquire, the less I seem to know ... Do justly. Love mercy. Walk humbly".

He was perhaps an imperfect human being, but songs like "Imagine", i have no doubt he found in a higher realm.

[ThaiBunny]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Good !

Among the perception by the physical senses, the complexity of the feelings and the proven truth lies the path to a higher consciousness.

My belief is the same, and i have faith in the Spirit to correct me when i lose the right path ????

Prove to us that it's not simply the placebo effect

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

Prove to us that it's not simply the placebo effect

I can't.

Take it or leave it.

 

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Good !

Among the perception by the physical senses, the complexity of the feelings and the proven truth lies the path to a higher consciousness.

My belief is the same, and i have faith in the Spirit to correct me when i lose the right path ????

I guess this is where we dissaggree, Im on the one in charge over myself, and the one who have to deal whith the challenges that comes my way. There might be some angels watching my back, and sometime it feels like it, and sometimes it doesnt and you are here just by yourselves against the whole world. 

 

The more I trusted myselves, the stronger I have been, and the less mistakes I have done, but I still do mistakes, when I let the guard down, and start to believe Im immortal again. The world is still not made of rubber, and it still hurt for every fall. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I guess this is where we dissaggree, Im on the one in charge over myself, and the one who have to deal whith the challenges that comes my way. There might be some angels watching my back, and sometime it feels like it, and sometimes it doesnt and you are here just by yourselves against the whole world. 

 

The more I trusted myselves, the stronger I have been, and the less mistakes I have done, but I still do mistakes, when I let the guard down, and start to believe Im immortal again. The world is still not made of rubber, and it still hurt for every fall. 

 

 

I don't know you, but i don't disagree at all.

Probably we just call "things" with different names, no big deal.

[canuckamuck]

23 minutes ago, Tagged said:

That I born on planet earth and the sun give us life? From ashes to ashes and dust to dust? And the planet earth is travelling trough the universe. I believe that is part of the proven truth. Quite simple, but that how it is in this complexed world we are living in. For the rest, I truly do not state anything because I do not know. What I feel, is something different, but thats only what I feel, and for sure not necessery the truth, because my feeling changes the longer I live and the more I read, understand and experience. 

I think we can agree on which planet we live on, and how the solar system functions. The rest you are undecided on. That is fair. But I do think we have a purpose and we are not just an incredible series unlikely accidents.

 

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

  You are free to think only within the limits of your genetic and social upbringing.

  In other words the jail inmate is free to walk , but only within the confines of his jail cell.

 Escapes  from jail do happen but more often than not we re apprehended and returned to jail, sometimes we even return voluntarily. Those who remain at large are few and far inbetween.Sad to report I am not one of them. 

 

 

I would love to understand what you said here.

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I think we can agree on which planet we live on, and how the solar system functions. The rest you are undecided on. That is fair. But I do think we have a purpose and we are not just an incredible series unlikely accidents.

 

Again thats what you believe, and thats your personal belief, and it differ from my point of view. Still Im reading this tread, and many other news, articles, books of people who argue with themselves, argue with others, and also those who claim they have found it. 

 

All I know, is how fantastic our brain is, and how functional it can be, but also how destructive it can be. Most people live in the middle of all this as flatliners, and accept whatever the neighbour belief in, the society or the state, and just do not want to be bothered to much. And then you have the societies who act like a motorbik gangsters, and claim either you are with us or against us. Forced membership of their runners, prospects and members. Everythings comes with a promiss if you stand up for them or not. 

 

As I say, I care, but I want to be right and truly is, I do not know. I do not need to know anything else than this is my time, and it is short, to short to waste. 

 

Nature is great, the greatest of all, and that is what is closest to all of us, but most ignore for something higher than temselves, far beyond our imagination. So there you have your answer again as I stated before many times. 

[CMNightRider]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

What historical records are you talking about ? Even in the bible there are no first person accounts of his life eg. "Jesus said to me..." Julius Caesar's life is well documented, not only through other peoples reports but also from his own writings.

As for heaven he said that heaven is not a place it is within you.

You may want to read the Bible for yourself.  Have you ever heard of Jesus’ 12 original apostles?  They had plenty to say about Jesus and what they saw with their own eyes.  

 

You are a good example of a non-reader and lost soul.  Don't feel bad though, Thai Visa has a large group of like minded individuals posting silly comments daily on this subject..  After reading your comment, you could easily be their leader.  Thanks for sharing.    

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I would love to understand what you said here.

I thought it was clear

We are free to think within limits, so we are really not free to think .You have heard the term "thinking outside the box" ?

When I was studying developmental  psychology We were presented with a puzzle

"connect a nine dot grid with four straight lines without lifting your pencil of the paper. we were given 10 min to do so. 

 Everyone in the class failed because they tried to remain within the confines of the grid . Where nowhere within the rules did it say you could not depart the confines of the grid. We were all thinking inside the box,

So:

The solution is thinking outside the box

  

The point being that we are trapped in the jail of our upbringing (all of as,, no value judgment there)  and our thinking is limited within those confines , creating the illusion of freedom. But as Henry Ford said "you can choose any color car you want as long as it is black"  LOL

often times we can depart the confines of our upbringing and lately with technology our genes. but it is a difficult and exhausting task, it takes constant self evaluation. so when we stop thinking about thinking , we fall back to old patterns , back in the jail (confines) of our thinking patterns.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks LOL

I am sorry if the above sounded didactic, and I hope did not sound condescending, I know that often I have a tendency to do both but I assure you it is not intentional. Like everyone else I am also a prisoner of my own mind.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by sirineou
typo

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

I thought it was clear

We are free to think within limits, so we are really not free to think .You have heard the term "thinking outside the box" ?

When I was studying developmental  psychology We were presented with a puzzle

"connect a nine dot grid with four straight lines without lifting your pencil of the paper. we were given 10 min to do so. 

 Everyone in the class failed because they tried to remain within the confines of the grid . Where nowhere within the rules did it say you could not depart the confines of the grid. We were all thinking inside the box,

So:

The solution is thinking outside the box

  

The point being that we are trapped in the jail of our upbringing (all of as,, no value judgment there)  and our thinking is limited within those confines , creating the illusion of freedom. But as Henry Ford said "you can choose any color car you want as long as it is black"  LOL

often times we can depart the confines of our upbringing and lately with technology our genes. but it is a difficult and exhausting task, it takes constant self evaluation. so when we stop thinking about thinking , we fall back to old patterns , back in the jail (confines) of our thinking patterns.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks LOL

I am sorry if the above sounded didactic, and I hope did not sound condescending, I know that often I have a tendency to do both but I assure you it is not intentional. Like everyone else I am also a prisoner of my own mind.

 

 

Good stuff! I agree with everything you said, just wanted to add another dimension, so to speak.

Since we're talking about 'thinking' and that our freedom is influenced and limited by our thinking patterns, what would it mean if we could stop the thinking altogether, even if it's for a short time?

If our actions are a consequence of our thoughts and our thoughts are directed by limiting factors such as genes, environment, upbringing etc, how would our actions look like if they came from a place that is not dictated by those factors?

[oldhippy]

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Good stuff! I agree with everything you said, just wanted to add another dimension, so to speak.

Since we're talking about 'thinking' and that our freedom is influenced and limited by our thinking patterns, what would it mean if we could stop the thinking altogether, even if it's for a short time?

If our actions are a consequence of our thoughts and our thoughts are directed by limiting factors such as genes, environment, upbringing etc, how would our actions look like if they came from a place that is not dictated by those factors?

Ah. How I envy being a slave.

 

NOT!

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Ah. How I envy being a slave.

 

NOT!

Please share your way to freedom, so that we all may benefit from it!

Edited December 27, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Please enlighten all of us how you managed to rise to freedom, so that we may benefit from your wisdom!

Interesting question, what is freedom or a free man? Where does the freedom start? 

 

My list right here en right now!

I would say it starts with economic freedom. 

1. No dept

2. Steady income salery or pention

3. Own a house, car, motorbike

4. Have freedom to travel own a passport

5. Political and religious freedom "free your mind"

6. Free of guilt

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Tagged said:

Interesting question, what is freedom or a free man? Where does the freedom start? 

 

My list right here en right now!

I would say it starts with economic freedom. 

1. No dept

2. Steady income salery or pention

3. Own a house, car, motorbike

4. Have freedom to travel own a passport

5. Political and religious freedom "free your mind"

6. Free of guilt

 

Oh yes, those are all good points, especially motorcycles!

 

[Skeptic7]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's a troll, IMO. He enjoys baiting us, IMO.

Please don't feed the troll.

You KNOW am not a troll. Ask you and the fantasylanders here valid questions that disagree with your fantasies and most of you grab your toys, call names, stomp home and whine.

 

Telling the truth, asking tough questions and calling out BS is not trolling no matter how many times you repeat it. ????

16 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Agree on the truth, but what is your definition of reality ?

Do you mean your reality, or a general reality ?

We've been over this before, but I'll try again as it's been quite a while. I don't have, nor claim, a personal reality. We all are sharing this reality where we live in (or spend considerable time in) Thailand and here on TV. Now whether we're just brains in vats or part of a computer program may be the case...I don’t think so, but even if so...we're all part of that particular (general) reality. We can make plans and meet at the same places and interact with one another in myriad ways. We can all watch and read news independently, yet still nearly all agree on current events around the world. Business news, weather, tragedy, disaster, sports, politics, etc. The reality in which ALL of us are participating and sharing is what I'm talking about...NOT just a select few whom claim other realities. To me that is just an altered state of mind, which all takes place inside the physical body, brain and world. Fascinating and awesome, sure...but nothing mystical, spiritual or supernatural IMO. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Skeptic7

[oldhippy]

21 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Interesting question, what is freedom or a free man? Where does the freedom start? 

 

My list right here en right now!

I would say it starts with economic freedom. 

1. No dept

2. Steady income salery or pention

3. Own a house, car, motorbike

4. Have freedom to travel own a passport

5. Political and religious freedom "free your mind"

6. Free of guilt

 

Good list!

Of course some points are debatable or not clear, such as economic freedom, free of guilt.

I would not mention owning houses, cars, motorbikes though - I'd prefer "house to live in" and public transport....

But yes, good list.

Especially since it does not mention religions or gods or wishy washy higher powers.

And I would add free sex.

[oldhippy]

May I quote Janice Joplin - off topic, rather depressing and very debatable....

 

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin', don't mean nothin' hon' if it ain't free, no no

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

May I quote Janice Joplin - off topic, rather depressing and very debatable....

 

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin', don't mean nothin' hon' if it ain't free, no no

Nothing else to loose, would say you have enough money and safety. I do not believe in the romantic 70ies could make you happy. It is ok when it is enough money in the society and easy to get money day by day working, but not everyone live in California, and for sure it is not the golden 70ies anymore. 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Good stuff! I agree with everything you said, just wanted to add another dimension, so to speak.

Since we're talking about 'thinking' and that our freedom is influenced and limited by our thinking patterns, what would it mean if we could stop the thinking altogether, even if it's for a short time?

If our actions are a consequence of our thoughts and our thoughts are directed by limiting factors such as genes, environment, upbringing etc, how would our actions look like if they came from a place that is not dictated by those factors?

A very profound question . So if we were to agree that has biomechanical factors ( for lack of a better term),

and that that memories necessary for thinking  have a specific location in the brain,then one needs to concede that there is a time factor assigned to each thought process.. So if that's correct there must be a section of time delineating one thought from another. and since we "think therefore we are"   where are we   when we are not thinking?

Do we cease to exist for that brief moment?

IMO we are in the realm of infinite possibilities (some might call it god) until these  possibilities are limited by onc's experiences and mental capacity. You can not consider that which you don't even know exists and you cant exceed your physical limitations.

a cursory analysis at best. Where are you between thoughts?  is a subject that one can spend a lifetime thinking about. Sorry if I confused more than I explained.

 

[soalbundy]

18 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Not sure you are aware of it, but your vision of the world is "filtered" through your ideas, preconceptions, experience and whatnot.

What you think can be true for yourself, but not necessarily for another living being.

yes, that applies to all of us

[Skeptic7]

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

Sad to report I am not one of them. 

??? 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

??? 

One whose thinking is compromised by nature and nurture.

I recognise my mental limitations and try to compensate for them but only while I think to think, when I forget to think about my thinking ,( which is often), I fall back to business as usual,,

[Skeptic7]

15 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

He was perhaps an imperfect human being, but songs like "Imagine", i have no doubt he found in a higher realm.

What about L ucy in the S ky with D iamonds? 

[canuckamuck]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

I thought it was clear

We are free to think within limits, so we are really not free to think .You have heard the term "thinking outside the box" ?

When I was studying developmental  psychology We were presented with a puzzle

"connect a nine dot grid with four straight lines without lifting your pencil of the paper. we were given 10 min to do so. 

 Everyone in the class failed because they tried to remain within the confines of the grid . Where nowhere within the rules did it say you could not depart the confines of the grid. We were all thinking inside the box,

So:

 

The solution is thinking outside the box.  

The point being that we are trapped in the jail of our upbringing (all of as,, no value judgment there)  and our thinking is limited within those confines , creating the illusion of freedom. But as Henry Ford said "you can choose any color car you want as long as it is black"  LOL

often times we can depart the confines of our upbringing and lately with technology our genes. but it is a difficult and exhausting task, it takes constant self evaluation. so when we stop thinking about thinking , we fall back to old patterns , back in the jail (confines) of our thinking patterns.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks LOL

I am sorry if the above sounded didactic, and I hope did not sound condescending, I know that often I have a tendency to do both but I assure you it is not intentional. Like everyone else I am also a prisoner of my own mind.

 

 

You are right on a certain level, but you are also assuming that our upbringing is full of error and needs to be left behind. Whereas I believe there are a great many truths passed from generation to generation. There are values that are fortify life and harmony. And many of these values we get in our upbringing. There is wisdom already learned that is available.

I think it is better to start with a foundation of basic truths and then filter the noise from there.

[Skeptic7]

19 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

What you think can be true for yourself, but not necessarily for another living being.

Well this is something I've been saying since Genesis of this thread. Things can appear be true to an individual and not necessarily to the vast majority of others...or even not so to all others. 

 

To me it seems that each of the "spiritual" here have their own version and experiences SOLO. No shared interactions with others while in this altered state of mind. Which goes back to something I've pounded since the beginning...while personal experience seems real to the person experiencing, they mean nothing to anyone else. And cannot prove anything to anyone else. That's why they're called personal experience. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Skeptic7

[balo]

The reason we invented Gods we could worship on planet Earth is simple, we can't explain how the Universe was created. If you say it was a Big Bang, I ask how did it get there? 
In the world we live in, life has a start and an end.  But up in the endless Universe there seem to be no beginning and no end.  So we can't explain it, not even the scientists. 
So we still need a God if you want to believe it was created by someone.

 

 Finally , after a few more drinks, you want to ask another question, if God created the Universe, who created God ?  So we're back to square one.