Do you believe in God and why

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Obviously an altered state of mind or a spiritual vision are personal.

But if i say that everything is created by an intelligent design, that includes you too.

Yet, nobody is forcing you to believe in an intelligent design, what you want to believe is entirely your choice.

Beliefs are not a choice. Either one believes something or they don't. If someone is genuinely convinced, then they believe... otherwise, not. I absolutely could not just choose right now to believe in god or that Earth is flat or I can flap my arms and fly off a skyscraper or that Donald Trump is an honest person. I could try to fool myself and fool others by pretending, but couldn't just choose to actually believe. It wouldn't be genuine. It would be deception.

 

So even though we have different beliefs, we all share and participate in this reality. You and another (or 2) claim other realities or spiritual realms with godlike aspects. I believe you're having some pleasant experience due to altered mind states, but I do not accept nor believe they are another actual reality, other than in your own body and based solely on your own opinion and interpretation.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Skeptic7

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Beliefs are not a choice.

What i say is just my opinion, perhaps i should have said : "some beliefs are a choice"

We can both agree that ice is cold and fire is hot, when it comes to an intelligent design, you can call it "random happening" or "chance", or "evolution", and it's fine for me.

I cannot prove to you that intelligent design is real, i consider this theory just a safe bet, after having considered various factors, thus, in this case i "choose" to believe in something.

 

[Skeptic7]

49 minutes ago, jvs said:

This is where karma enters the conversation.

What i kind of tasted in thaibeachlovers response was believers are better people

compared to non believers,he probably will clarify that for us.

 

He'll definitely opine until the next blue moon, but wouldn't hold your breath on any clarification! ????

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who is condemning atheists on here?

Take a look in the mirror. ????

[Skeptic7]

On 12/25/2019 at 5:34 PM, mauGR1 said:

Others post while completely drunk

This is a disturbing trend in the world these days...and especially here on this thread. BOLD unsubstantiated claims (and in this case, accusations), stated as fact...without the least bit of proof. How can you possibly know that another poster is drunk? What are they slurring their keyboards?!?  

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

This is a disturbing trend in the world these days...and especially here on this thread. BOLD unsubstantiated claims (and in this case, accusations), stated as fact...without the least bit of proof. How can you possibly know that another poster is drunk? What are they slurring their keyboards?!?  

Perhaps you missed the post where that poster admitted that he was drunk.

... It's not the first time btw you accuse me of something which is only in your imagination, haven't you got anything better than this ?

[Skeptic7]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps you missed the post where that poster admitted that he was drunk.

... It's not the first time btw you accuse me of something which is only in your imagination, haven't you got anything better than this ?

I did miss it, so there was one. However...your post was plural (others, them, they) and generally accusatory. And you're the one who has walked it back twice for false accusations. I haven't conjured up anything with regards to quoting or referring to anyone here. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

I did miss it, so there was one. However...your post was plural (others, them, they) and generally accusatory. And you're the one who has walked it back twice for false accusations. I haven't conjured up anything with regards to quoting or referring to anyone here. 

Well, i am not perfect, and i can do mistakes.

Now what about discussing the topic instead of bickering ?

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

If, after your last thought, you pose the question, "I wonder what my next thought will be"

If you pose the question "I wonder what my next thought will be " wouldn't then that be your next thought?

10 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

By turning consciousness (not thought!) inwards,

what is  consciousness if not thought?

Descartes said "I think therefore I am" If he is correct, wouldn't it follow that if you don't think  you are not?

What you think? Pun intended.

[Sunmaster]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

If, after your last thought, you pose the question, "I wonder what my next thought will be"

If you pose the question "I wonder what my next thought will be " wouldn't then that be your next thought?

I don't think that was one of my quotes, but nevermind.

 

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

By turning consciousness (not thought!) inwards,

what is  consciousness if not thought?

Descartes said "I think therefore I am" If he is correct, wouldn't it follow that if you don't think  you are not?

What you think? Pun intended.

Imagine you could stop the inner chatter that you hear all the time in your head. Close your eyes now and do a test! See how long you can witness a thought before another one quietly slings around your leg and has you in its grip and before you know it you will have followed half a dozen scenarios in your head before remembering to stand back again and be a witness of your thoughts. 
What happens if you eventually are able to not get attached to the arising thought forms, even for just a short time? Are you still there? Is your identity still intact? Who are you at that point? Are you not still aware of your environment? If a fly lands on your nose, will you not scratch it?

Have you lost consciousness?

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sunmaster

[ericthai]

I've thought about this many times....and I still dont know.   I want to believe,...maybe

that comes from going to catholic school.

 

I traveled allot when I was young learning about other customs religions finding that things dont always add up. So I keep ending up with I dont know... 

 

Is our brain just another organ in the body doing it's job? Are we real? or is it just our brain in over drive? these are some of my thoughts that bring me back to I dont know... 

 

How can I believe there's a god with all the atrocities that happen everyday in this world.

We are told that we are all his children, seems some are loved more than others. 

Why would a father allow a child to get cancer if he could fix it?  Maybe there are reasons and we just dont know why, so again I come to I dont know...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, ericthai said:

I've thought about this many times....and I still dont know.   I want to believe,...maybe

that comes from going to catholic school.

 

I traveled allot when I was young learning about other customs religions finding that things dont always add up. So I keep ending up with I dont know... 

 

Is our brain just another organ in the body doing it's job? Are we real? or is it just our brain in over drive? these are some of my thoughts that bring me back to I dont know... 

 

How can I believe there's a god with all the atrocities that happen everyday in this world.

We are told that we are all his children, seems some are loved more than others. 

Why would a father allow a child to get cancer if he could fix it?  Maybe there are reasons and we just dont know why, so again I come to I dont know...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you start on page 1, and read trough all the posts, you will find the members answers to your questions asked and answered or avoided several times. The most correct answer on the believers point of view, is to read and understand the bible! Others make up their own personal view inspired by what they have found out from studying scripts and life itself. 

 

What do you think yourselves about a god, superpower or coincidences of the art of life, art, nature, space and so on? 

 

Why are we here? (Not why we are on TV, but why are we at all here at this place called the blue planet earth)

[Elad]

24 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Why are we here?

We are a product of an evolving universe, its like the universe is creating a way to know itself. ????

[Tagged]

9 minutes ago, Elad said:

We are a product of an evolving universe, its like the universe is creating a way to know itself. ????

I like your thinking! 

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Elad said:

We are a product of an evolving universe, its like the universe is creating a way to know itself. ????

So it's like the universe is intelligent and can create self replicating beings ?

Who would have thought

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, jvs said:

However, those that believe are more likely to be good than those that believe in nothing.

Those are your words nobody used the word condemning but you.

Can you prove what you said?

 

You said "I have met atheists who are far better people then the people who condemn them."

I asked who on this thread is condemning atheists.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, ericthai said:

I've thought about this many times....and I still dont know.   I want to believe,...maybe

that comes from going to catholic school.

 

I traveled allot when I was young learning about other customs religions finding that things dont always add up. So I keep ending up with I dont know... 

 

Is our brain just another organ in the body doing it's job? Are we real? or is it just our brain in over drive? these are some of my thoughts that bring me back to I dont know... 

 

How can I believe there's a god with all the atrocities that happen everyday in this world.

We are told that we are all his children, seems some are loved more than others. 

Why would a father allow a child to get cancer if he could fix it?  Maybe there are reasons and we just dont know why, so again I come to I dont know...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All your questions been answered several times.

[mauGR1]

Given that we all are, more or less, thinking beings, and suppose that tomorrow planet earth explodes, and we are all wiped out of existence, would it be logical to speculate that the laws of the universe cease to exist ?

I think not.

Given that there are millions of stars, it is logical to think that there are millions of solar systems, with an average, say, of 8 planets each.

It seems logical to think that there are other forms of life living out there, it's also logical to think there might be some more advanced, and some less advanced than us.

Are the ancient mythological Gods space travellers ? Possible.

Now, it has been discussed whether mathematics is an opinion or not, imho, mathematics is pure truth.

Mathematics would exist without the humans.

Would infinite numbers exist without the 1 ?

My answer is : Nope, there can be infinite numbers, but without the 1 , there would be none.

Not sure many would see a logic here, but i'm ok with that ????

[balo]

We are just human flesh , lucky to have a brain . When we die it's all gone. Billions of humans, animals, plants , it will all die in the end.  

[soalbundy]

22 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Why?

Because the absolute isn't something out of Harry Potter nor is it personal ie the absolute doesn't answers Joe Bloggs prayers, Joe Bloggs is of the absolute, his body and mind are manifestations of the one consciousness, what happens to the manifestation Joe Bloggs isn't important. Religions, all religions, only point to a truth that can't be explained in words or understood by the mind so stories, parables and metaphors have to be used especially in the iron age of the old and new testament where education of the farmers and fishermen would have been minimal at best.

As a modern man with a western education do you really believe in a virgin birth ? (because sex is sinful ! )

That a man destroyed by crucifiction rose from the dead ?

That the absolute spoke to Abraham behind a burning bush and wrote down the 10 commandments on a stone tablet (without a hammer and chisel obviously)

Adam and Eve, the rib, the fruit of knowledge, the talking serpent.

The six day creation story (oh and a God has to rest for a day, all that creating can take it out of you)

 

Jesus (I believe such a spiritual teacher existed) was born a Jew and died a Jew, he was a product of his time as well as being charismatic and having great spiritual insight that he himself couldn't fully understand. No he didn't live without sin nor was he perfect, just a man on a mission to fulfill the prophesies of the Jewish religion.

You have to think of the political tensions existing at the time, the Jews with their religion were being oppressed by the unassailable maschine called the Roman empire, they yearned for freedom, for a messiah, anybody who could free them and along came a spiritual teacher who could maybe do that, he was of course completely misunderstood but at the same time probably felt he had to fulfill the prophesies (and maybe believed in them) and so he died in agony and a legend was born. The Romans probably at first encouraged the flowering religion, what oppressor wouldn't want the people to have a peaceful religion. Nero ruined any further diplomatic measures and in a way furthered the myths.

Think of things that happened in the history of the European nations just 500 years ago or a thousand years ago and what myths have grown up around historical events that modern archeologists have to painstakingly correct, how much more confusion would there be after more than two thousand years. All religions have their myths and mysteries and all are misunderstood because the mere pointing was mistaken as the absolute truth. Jesus didn't think it necessary to have temples to worship in, so they built him cathedrals, the Buddha considering the question whether there was a God said that could never be known therefore the question was irrelevant so the made him into a deity and built temples (something he also thought was unnecessary) and myths of miracles grew up.

Adults are like little children when they don't switch on the enormous brain that they have, truth is their birthright but they reject it for myths.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Because the absolute isn't something out of Harry Potter nor is it personal ie the absolute doesn't answers Joe Bloggs prayers, Joe Bloggs is of the absolute, his body and mind are manifestations of the one consciousness, what happens to the manifestation Joe Bloggs isn't important. Religions, all religions, only point to a truth that can't be explained in words or understood by the mind so stories, parables and metaphors have to be used especially in the iron age of the old and new testament where education of the farmers and fishermen would have been minimal at best.

As a modern man with a western education do you really believe in a virgin birth ? (because sex is sinful ! )

That a man destroyed by crucifiction rose from the dead ?

That the absolute spoke to Abraham behind a burning bush and wrote down the 10 commandments on a stone tablet (without a hammer and chisel obviously)

Adam and Eve, the rib, the fruit of knowledge, the talking serpent.

The six day creation story (oh and a God has to rest for a day, all that creating can take it out of you)

 

Jesus (I believe such a spiritual teacher existed) was born a Jew and died a Jew, he was a product of his time as well as being charismatic and having great spiritual insight that he himself couldn't fully understand. No he didn't live without sin nor was he perfect, just a man on a mission to fulfill the prophesies of the Jewish religion.

You have to think of the political tensions existing at the time, the Jews with their religion were being oppressed by the unassailable maschine called the Roman empire, they yearned for freedom, for a messiah, anybody who could free them and along came a spiritual teacher who could maybe do that, he was of course completely misunderstood but at the same time probably felt he had to fulfill the prophesies (and maybe believed in them) and so he died in agony and a legend was born. The Romans probably at first encouraged the flowering religion, what oppressor wouldn't want the people to have a peaceful religion. Nero ruined any further diplomatic measures and in a way furthered the myths.

Think of things that happened in the history of the European nations just 500 years ago or a thousand years ago and what myths have grown up around historical events that modern archeologists have to painstakingly correct, how much more confusion would there be after more than two thousand years. All religions have their myths and mysteries and all are misunderstood because the mere pointing was mistaken as the absolute truth. Jesus didn't think it necessary to have temples to worship in, so they built him cathedrals, the Buddha considering the question whether there was a God said that could never be known therefore the question was irrelevant so the made him into a deity and built temples (something he also thought was unnecessary) and myths of miracles grew up.

Adults are like little children when they don't switch on the enormous brain that they have, truth is their birthright but they reject it for myths.

You are absolutely correct when it comes to religion, which is why some of us refer to faith and NOT religion. Personally I don't have any belief in religion as it is an artificial construct of humans wishing to control other humans, the men in funny hats as I call them.

Faith is an individual thing that comes from within. I didn't come to believe in faith because I was religious, but when I found faith I rejected religion.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Adults are like little children when they don't switch on the enormous brain that they have, truth is their birthright but they reject it for myths.

During my time in Antarctica I discovered that no matter how confident a wo/man may appear on the outside, on the inside we are probably scared. It's likely, IMO, part of our genes, part of fight or flight which has allowed humans to survive.

We all, IMO look for something to protect us. For some it's becoming a policeman or a firefighter or a politician, for others it's belonging to a gang of some sort. Even being an atheist is belonging to a group of like minded individuals.

In the absence of a real protector, myths will suffice- hence religion.

Given that no one is willingly going to run around saying "I'm scared", it's something I learned by observation.

[Sunmaster]

[Skeptic7]

Seems to me that the thread is not really any longer about believing in a god, but rather exploring the untapped capabilities of the brain. Some, most or even all people may derive benefits or good feelings from such brain exercises and training...such as relaxation, rejuvenation, reduction in stress, visions and vivid and/or lucid dreams, etc. However, what does this have to do with believing in any "god"? All this is just an altered sub or semi-conscious state of mind and of the reality that we all share right here on Planet Earth...yes? How does this prove or even hint at any "god"...unless we all have our own personal "god", just waiting to be tapped, hiding inside our craniums. 

 

Personal story...about 30 years ago "lucid dreams" were a semi-popular topic and very interesting to me. TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR DREAMS and mold them to your fancy! There were even devices sold that would monitor your sleep and when REM sleep was detected, they would trigger tiny light pulses to make the dreamer aware they were dreaming, but not wake up. Supposedly it took some practice, but ultimately supposedly worked. I read all about them, but never bought one. Rather I kept delving into lucid dreaming and discovered there were unaided methods of lucid dreaming. I went through the process of each night and within a few days had twice realized I was dreaming, but stayed in the dream. In the first I was in a harrowing and bad circumstance. I decided to fly away...and I did! It was marvelous and sublime, not to forget thrilling! Sadly I awoke all too soon, but was determined to do it again. I succeeded a few days later and it was wonderful all over again. After that, I stopped trying and have realized a few times since that I'm dreaming, but always immediately wake up. I do feel that had I kept on with the practice, would have become much more adept at it.

 

The human brain is a wonderful and fascinating organ, computer, VR machine...but IMO don't see any evidence or even any reason to insert/crowbar any "god" or supernatural into that wonderful reality. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Skeptic7

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

unless we all have our own personal "god", just waiting to be tapped, hiding inside our craniums. 

 

That's what we are trying to tell you since aeons.

Of course you have your personal God, everybody has ????

[Skeptic7]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's what we are trying to tell you since aeons.

Of course you have your personal God, everybody has ????

Yes y'all have been saying it but I ain't buying it...which has been my point since eons/aeons. I said it in jest, of course. No valid reason for me to think such a thing. I may as well have said we all have have our own magical pink unicorn hiding in our heads...or a Genie! Regardless, I disagree and consider the notion ridiculous. 

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Yes y'all have been saying it but I ain't buying it...which has been my point since eons/aeons. I said it in jest, of course. No valid reason for me to think such a thing. I may as well have said we all have have our own magical pink unicorn hiding in our heads...or a Genie! Regardless, I disagree and consider the notion ridiculous. 

You can do what you want of it, but that theory it's worth consideration imho.

 

Btw, not many atheists know that Noah, apart from saving humans and beasts from the flood, possibly invented the wine, as he's historically recorded as the first man in history to get drunk.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwicjdXMl9vmAhWz7XMBHaJbBjUQFjABegQICxAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNoah%27s_wine&usg=AOvVaw3AUxrM5-BBVyQcUhkbI2Pe

[yodsak]

On 12/20/2019 at 8:11 PM, AsianAtHeart said:

Notice that adding eight mouths plus month equals a ship, patterned after the first ship, Noah's ark.  Noah was righteous (see the symbol for "righteous" in place of the eight mouths), and his boat safely landed on the bank of a mountain after the flood.  And there just happened to be eight people in the ark.  How did the Chinese know?

 

[Tagged]

43 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

You can do what you want of it, but that theory it's worth consideration imho.

 

Btw, not many atheists know that Noah, apart from saving humans and beasts from the flood, possibly invented the wine, as he's historically recorded as the first man in history to get drunk.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwicjdXMl9vmAhWz7XMBHaJbBjUQFjABegQICxAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNoah%27s_wine&usg=AOvVaw3AUxrM5-BBVyQcUhkbI2Pe

When I read Atheist as some state here in this tread, it sounds like a right wing state about leftish and socialists! 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

When I read Atheist as some state here in this tread, it sounds like a right wing state about leftish and socialists! 

I am very light wing about it, atheist is not an insult, and btw, right and left wing belong to the same bird ????