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3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Food for thought as you say, but according to Hindu ancient theories, God is called the Non-born; if S/He had a beginning and an end, thus S/He would not be God, so i'm afraid that we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Interesting thoughts about time though.

If you believe in God or anything else , you must also by definition believe hr/she exists . Nothing can exist without time because time is the concept that simply delineated a sequence of events.

when people talk about time travel they really don' talk about changing time, time is simply a concept, they talk about changing sequence of events. 

  So  something either exists or does not, and if it does it exists  with in time (a sequence of events) To say something has no beginning and no end  is a nonsensical  (no sense ) comment with in the above concept.

  people like to use it to end a conversation when they don't like the direction the conversation takes , but it does not further anyones understanding. Then people say. "we cant understand God" if we can't understand God, then why are we even talking about the concept? Why we believe in a concept we don't even understand? 

PS: I am not using "Nonsensical" as a pejorative term   

Edited by sirineou

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10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you believe in God or anything else , you must also by definition believe hr/she exists . Nothing can exist without time because time is the concept that simply delineated a sequence of events.

when people talk about time travel they really don' talk about changing time, time is simply a concept, they talk about changing sequence of events. 

  So  something either exists or does not, and if it does it exists  with in time (a sequence of events) To say something has no beginning and no end  is a nonsensical  (no sense ) comment with in the above concept.

  people like to use it to end a conversation when they don't like the direction the conversation takes , but it does not further anyones understanding. Then people say. "we cant understand God" if we can't understand God, then why are we even talking about the concept? Why we believe in a concept we don't even understand? 

PS: I am not using "Nonsensical" as a pejorative term   

Interesting thoughts, but it's much simpler than that, if you only can accept that your physical senses can perceive only an infinitesimal portion of reality, consequently your logic is limited by your limited perception of reality.

We can't understand a lot of things, but i find nonetheless useful to talk about them, and to talk about, or admitting the possibility, it's not the same as believing.

Yet, as i think that matter is just "condensed" thought, i tend to believe that thoughts are as real as matter, ergo everything you think exists in one reality or another.

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34 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Then people say. "we cant understand God" if we can't understand God, then why are we even talking about the concept?

 

Why? Isn't that obvious? We talk about and discuss issues and concepts in order to understand them. In the 'hard sciences' we test our hypotheses under controlled experiments, repeatedly, before we become certain they are correct. Even after certainty, further discussions, observations and experiments, often reveal later that we were wrong.


Why we believe in a concept we don't even understand?

 

Probably to make us feel good and give us confidence in the absence of certainty, and sometimes because we have a psychological problem, such as a phobia about snakes, which is a belief that all snakes are extremely bad and harmful. 😉

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1 minute ago, VincentRJ said:

Why? Isn't that obvious? We talk about and discuss issues and concepts in order to understand them. In the 'hard sciences' we test our hypotheses under controlled experiments, repeatedly, before we become certain they are correct. Even after certainty, further discussions, observations and experiments, often reveal later that we were wrong.

Sure , I agree, but the other side says "we can never understand God"

  Whatever I say they will always say "yea you now understand this thing, but you can't understand another. 

 If that's the attitude then why even bother talking about it? IMO it is a lazy debating tactic, that ends conversation probably developed by those who use religion to derive their power .

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, his existence is beyond your understanding. To which I respond , "bull <deleted>" , especially if the man behind the curtain is attempting to pick my pocket. 

25 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Interesting thoughts, but it's much simpler than that, if you only can accept that your physical senses can perceive only an infinitesimal portion of reality,

Our physical senses are indeed  limited, but  we do increase the spectrum with technology and derive conclusions trough extrapolation.

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8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Sure , I agree, but the other side says "we can never understand God"

  Whatever I say they will always say "yea you now understand this thing, but you can't understand another. 

 If that's the attitude then why even bother talking about it? IMO it is a lazy debating tactic, that ends conversation probably developed by those who use religion to derive their power .

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, his existence is beyond your understanding. To which I respond , "bull <deleted>" , especially if the man behind the curtain is attempting to pick my pocket. 

Our physical senses are indeed  limited, but  we do increase the spectrum with technology and derive conclusions trough extrapolation.

Really, i find this thread interesting, and i'm not lazy to debate, so if i say that we cannot understand God, or intelligent design, i'm not lying.

Yet, i'm trying.

Just imagine a bunch of ants discussing the complexity of a jet-plane, do you think that giving them some sophisticate instrument would change their perception of reality ?

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1 hour ago, sirineou said:

If you believe in God or anything else , you must also by definition believe hr/she exists . Nothing can exist without time because time is the concept that simply delineated a sequence of events.

when people talk about time travel they really don' talk about changing time, time is simply a concept, they talk about changing sequence of events. 

 

The way we perceive time is relative. A boring lecture way feels longer than it is while 1 hour of fun with friends will feel much shorter than the actual hour.
The theory of relativity also states that time goes faster the higher a gravitational potential is.

Seems to me that time is not a constant at all, neither with-in nor with-out of me. So, from a purely scientific point of view, I would say a state where time is zero is indeed possible. But don't quote me on that, I'm not a scientist. 🙂


My personal theory is that time works like a carousel. Time passes much faster at the edges of the carousel, and slows down the further inward you go. If you take this example to an infinite center, it follows that in that (infinite) center, time will be equal to zero.

For me this is also a great model to explain what happens during meditation. An untamed mind will race all the time at high speeds. Through the practice of meditation, you learn to quieten the mind for longer and longer periods and slow down the chattering, until you reach the center, where there is no movement, no time and you become the observer, the witness of the world that passes you by.

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Nobody can prove or disprove anything regarding the existence of a supreme being, so which is the best case scenario:

 

A. God doesn't exist, and therefore no continuation of consciousness

B. God exists and it becomes proven. We will be judged in the afterlife according to our actions from this point forward in time and based on the bible's laws.

C. God exists and it becomes proven, and a good afterlife is assured for all, but the internet will disappear for eternity in 10 seconds, including Netflix. (There will be a Blockbuster Video, but returns are 24 hours and you MUST rewind!)

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1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Sure , I agree, but the other side says "we can never understand God" 

That's a reasonable assumption. To understand the creator of the entire universe with its billions of galaxies and trillions of planets and different life forms; Wow! what a feat! Such a person would be far more knowledgeable than the entire community of modern scientists of all disciplines. 😉

 

Socrates advised 'know thyself'. 2400 years later, most people even have trouble knowing themselves, never mind knowing God. 😉

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47 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The theory of relativity also states that time goes faster the higher a gravitational potential is.

Seems to me that time is not a constant at all, neither with-in nor with-out of me. So, from a purely scientific point of view, I would say a state where time is zero is indeed possible.

A photon of light doesn't experience time, and doesn't experience distance either because time and distance are linked. When an electron emits a photon of light, there is no acceleration curve to reach the speed of light because anything massless will always travel at the speed of light in a vacuum.

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2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

That's a reasonable assumption. To understand the creator of the entire universe with its billions of galaxies and trillions of planets and different life forms; Wow! what a feat! Such a person would be far more knowledgeable than the entire community of modern scientists of all disciplines. 😉

 

Socrates advised 'know thyself'. 2400 years later, most people even have trouble knowing themselves, never mind knowing God. 😉

Then why are  god heads so militand about something they don't even understand????

Edited by sirineou
removed "you"

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2 hours ago, ThaiRebound said:

Nobody can prove or disprove anything regarding the existence of a supreme being, so which is the best case scenario:

 

A. God doesn't exist, and therefore no continuation of consciousness

B. God exists and it becomes proven. We will be judged in the afterlife according to our actions from this point forward in time and based on the bible's laws.

C. God exists and it becomes proven, and a good afterlife is assured for all, but the internet will disappear for eternity in 10 seconds, including Netflix. (There will be a Blockbuster Video, but returns are 24 hours and you MUST rewind!)

Netflix is proof that god does not exist!

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1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Netflix is proof that god does not exist!

Settle it with a DUEL! Repent, pagan!

Edited by ThaiRebound

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NO!! Absolute <deleted>. God does not excist. Its just a fairy tale imho.

I was born and raised catholic...but since 25 years or so I am completely Atheist. I even refuse to enter Churches..temples or whatsoever religeous buildings.

 

All this religeous humbug has caused the world much suffering...pain... and deaths.

 

If I see the treath that Islam and some other extreme religeous fanatics are making towards the world nowadays its just frightening. They truly want us back in the stone age.

 

Hans.

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Well..whatever one's position on the vexed question of "God" I am certainly amazed that the conversation has-in the main-been carried on in a civil and courteous manner for a couple of thousand posts.

 

Quite an achievement,really.

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