luckyluke Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, VincentRJ said: There is no evidence for an external existence of any God. This is also my opinion, others, like mauGR1 have a different opinion about it, I personally, and I think we all should, respect any formulated opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: What you consider an opinion may stay an opinion forever, but it may also become a fact. Sure, my opinion or yours may become a fact. In the meantime we have to agree to disagree about the subject. Edited January 31, 2020 by luckyluke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 5:48 PM, geronimo said: We could be in a simulation ...... I often think I am, but given everything we are is just electricity, how can I prove it? Perhaps the writer of The Matrix knew more than he was saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, VincentRJ said: There is no evidence for an external existence of any God. If God exists as I believe, why would God conform to the laws of primitive men? Men can't even cure cancer let alone create a galaxy. I always have a chuckle to myself when a poster comes on with the old "no evidence" mantra which is meaningless. When humans learn to use all of their brain, they might be able to see the evidence, but humans are still too ignorant to be able to do so at this point in time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Perhaps the writer of The Matrix knew more than he was saying. Or even Descartes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, mauGR1 said: No, i don't think so. In my opinion, the eternal God, or intelligent design if you prefer, is more real than you or me. You or me or this planet are temporary realities, God is an eternal reality. The planet has been around a few billion years, and humans for about 50,000. Before the sun destroys the planet and dies, there will probably be more than a few subsequent versions of intelligent life on the planet after all humans are dust. It perplexes me that some people consider humans to be the ultimate repository of intelligence and the species will live forever, when we know nothing much and are well on the way to polluting ourselves into extinction. Seems the only thing humans are really good at is finding new ways to kill each other. That seems pretty stupid to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said: The planet has been around a few billion years, and humans for about 50,000. Before the sun destroys the planet and dies, there will probably be more than a few subsequent versions of intelligent life on the planet after all humans are dust. It perplexes me that some people consider humans to be the ultimate repository of intelligence and the species will live forever, when we know nothing much and are well on the way to polluting ourselves into extinction. Seems the only thing humans are really good at is finding new ways to kill each other. That seems pretty stupid to me. Agree completely, but i would not be too harsh in judging humans as a whole. It's true that some humans are horrible beings, but some are wonderful, and the majority of us are not too bad. According to very ancient prophecies, we are living in the era of destruction, and, according to those prophecies the leaders and the rulers, which should be chosen among the best, are the worst of the whole bunch. Perhaps humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, i think it happened before, it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Agree completely, but i would not be too harsh in judging humans as a whole. It's true that some humans are horrible beings, but some are wonderful, and the majority of us are not too bad. According to very ancient prophecies, we are living in the era of destruction, and, according to those prophecies the leaders and the rulers, which should be chosen among the best, are the worst of the whole bunch. Perhaps humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, i think it happened before, it will happen again. Removing humans from the loop would be great news for every other living thing, with perhaps the exception of dogs. Edited January 31, 2020 by geronimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, geronimo said: Removing humans from the loop would be great news for every other living thing, with perhaps the exception of dogs. As i said in the previous post, we are not inherently better or worse than any other species, but in principle, from the point of view of the environment, one can agree that we are too many and too greedy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: As i said in the previous post, we are not inherently better or worse than any other species, but in principle, from the point of view of the environment, one can agree that we are too many and too greedy. also too exploitative and polluting. No other species, far as i know, is greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Agree completely, but i would not be too harsh in judging humans as a whole. It's true that some humans are horrible beings, but some are wonderful, and the majority of us are not too bad. According to very ancient prophecies, we are living in the era of destruction, and, according to those prophecies the leaders and the rulers, which should be chosen among the best, are the worst of the whole bunch. Perhaps humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, i think it happened before, it will happen again. humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, I've been saying for years that Gaia is going to rid itself of humans. Perhaps this coronavirus is the means to that end. If not this one then the next or the one after that, etc. The planet was overpopulated the instant the first person thought it was a good idea to immigrate illegally to a rich country because their country was unable to sustain all its people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said: also too exploitative and polluting. No other species, far as i know, is greedy. That's true, but it's also true that if we look at the past, the present and the possible futures, we have to accept that we are built that way. As individuals though, we have the ability to better ourselves, and consequently to better the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, I've been saying for years that Gaia is going to rid itself of humans. Perhaps this coronavirus is the means to that end. If not this one then the next or the one after that, etc. The planet was overpopulated the instant the first person thought it was a good idea to immigrate illegally to a rich country because their country was unable to sustain all its people. I believe that there are a few ways for Gaia to survive the ever-growing hordes of greedy humans. Pandemic disease surely is one way, earthquakes, climate changes, asteroids, you name it. Nothing to worry, imho, our bodies only last for a while, but life will always be, one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: That's true, but it's also true that if we look at the past, the present and the possible futures, we have to accept that we are built that way. As individuals though, we have the ability to better ourselves, and consequently to better the world. As individuals there are some wonderful people I have known, but as a species we are diabolical. I recently had a couple of religious people come around to convert me, but they lost their case when I asked them for help and they went away quickly. It was a test more than a genuine request, but there was little of the love they professed to be offering in the name of Jesus. If I were cynical, I'd say they were more about what they could get from me rather than what they could offer me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, mauGR1 said: I believe that there are a few ways for Gaia to survive the ever-growing hordes of greedy humans. Pandemic disease surely is one way, earthquakes, climate changes, asteroids, you name it. Nothing to worry, imho, our bodies only last for a while, but life will always be, one way or another. Indeed, the spark of life from the Creator imbues all living things, whatever they look like. The spark may become parked when humans kill themselves off, finally, but will invigorate the next form of intelligent life on planet Earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentRJ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, I've been saying for years that Gaia is going to rid itself of humans. Perhaps this coronavirus is the means to that end. If not this one then the next or the one after that, etc. The planet was overpopulated the instant the first person thought it was a good idea to immigrate illegally to a rich country because their country was unable to sustain all its people. What nonsense! Do you know that the total mass of earth worms in the soil, under your feet, is far greater than the total mass of humans above the soil? Do you know that the total amount of life below the surface of the soil, such as insects, worms, bacteria, micro-organisms, tree roots and plant roots, is far greater than the total amount of life above the soil, including all plants, all farm animals, all wild animals, and all humans and their pets? We have the technology and resources to provide a good and prosperous lifestyle for far more than the current population which is approaching 8 billion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: As individuals there are some wonderful people I have known, but as a species we are diabolical. I recently had a couple of religious people come around to convert me, but they lost their case when I asked them for help and they went away quickly. It was a test more than a genuine request, but there was little of the love they professed to be offering in the name of Jesus. If I were cynical, I'd say they were more about what they could get from me rather than what they could offer me. The last time i was approached by a couple of Jeovah witnesses, i started to talk them about the evil of humankind, enumerating all the possible catastrophes which have happened in the past, and, no doubt, are going to happen in the future. I stopped short of telling them "Repent, the end is nigh", but i could see some light of relief in their eyes when i finally let them go on their way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: The last time i was approached by a couple of Jeovah witnesses, i started to talk them about the evil of humankind, enumerating all the possible catastrophes which have happened in the past, and, no doubt, are going to happen in the future. I stopped short of telling them "Repent, the end is nigh", but i could see some light of relief in their eyes when i finally let them go on their way. Next time, read them one of my poems ... you'll never see them again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said: We have the technology and resources to provide a good and prosperous lifestyle for far more than the current population which is approaching 8 billion. No doubt the technology and the resources are there, but is there the will ? Just for the sake of adding a voice of dissent, try to imagine if every poor, ignorant peasant of the 3rd world could have a car, a bike, air-con, internet and whatnot, and fly around the world a few times a year... Have we got enough resources for that ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: The last time i was approached by a couple of Jeovah witnesses, i started to talk them about the evil of humankind, enumerating all the possible catastrophes which have happened in the past, and, no doubt, are going to happen in the future. I stopped short of telling them "Repent, the end is nigh", but i could see some light of relief in their eyes when i finally let them go on their way. I tend to say (they hunt in pairs) to one of them "How about you read to us from the Bible" and to other "While you give me a head job". They don't last long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said: humans are wired to destroy themselves once the planet gets overpopulated, I've been saying for years that Gaia is going to rid itself of humans. Perhaps this coronavirus is the means to that end. If not this one then the next or the one after that, etc. The planet was overpopulated the instant the first person thought it was a good idea to immigrate illegally to a rich country because their country was unable to sustain all its people. Did you say it about SARS too? People freaked and said same about SARS 15+ years ago. In the end only 774 deaths attributed to SARS worldwide. Not even a blip on the extermination map and this Coronavirus is said to be less severe...more infectious, but less severe. Just as a numbers comparison...on average over 3200 humans perish in motor-vehicle accidents every single day. Bubonic Plague killed 100,000,000 give or take. Highly doubtful this is Gaia's revenge. Edited January 31, 2020 by Skeptic7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: I tend to say (they hunt in pairs) to one of them "How about you read to us from the Bible" and to other "While you give me a head job". They don't last long Any preference as to which is doing the reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: I tend to say (they hunt in pairs) to one of them "How about you read to us from the Bible" and to other "While you give me a head job". They don't last long Well, apparently there is something we agree on, some of them, if not most, can be rather annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Well, apparently there is something we agree on, some of them, if not most, can be rather annoying. No different than here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: No different than here then. Agreed ???? Edited January 31, 2020 by Sunmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said: No different than here then. Very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentRJ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 hours ago, mauGR1 said: No doubt the technology and the resources are there, but is there the will ? Just for the sake of adding a voice of dissent, try to imagine if every poor, ignorant peasant of the 3rd world could have a car, a bike, air-con, internet and whatnot, and fly around the world a few times a year... Have we got enough resources for that ? Good point! If we don't change our ways and we insist on doing everything in accordance with ancient scriptures and ancient practices, and continue using obsolete technology, then we'll never realize that goal of achieving at least an adequate living standard for everyone everywhere. I'm very skeptical about the claimed significance of anthropogenic emissions of CO2 on climate, but I understand the political motivation in demonizing CO2. It drives the creation of new sources of energy. Solar power with battery storage, eventually, will likely be cheaper than fossil fuels, and just as reliable as battery technology progresses. The energy from the sun is effectively limitless. For example, if the entire area of the Sahara Desert were covered with solar panels, it would generate about 20 times the total amount of energy from all sources that is currently used world-wide, converting everything into equivalent Kilowatt Hours. Nuclear power is another option. Nuclear fusion ( as opposed to nuclear fission) is still under development but will likely become a practical option eventually. The advantages of Nuclear Fusion are: no long-lived nuclear waste, no risk of melt-down as occurred at Fukushima during the Tsunami, and no bi-products that can be exploited for nuclear weapons. The main problems we face into the future are incompetence, corruption, greed, power struggles, and religious and cultural squabbling which results in military conflict and huge amounts of resources wasted in maintaining large armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, VincentRJ said: Good point! If we don't change our ways and we insist on doing everything in accordance with ancient scriptures and ancient practices, and continue using obsolete technology, then we'll never realize that goal of achieving at least an adequate living standard for everyone everywhere. Glad that for once we agree on something, including the rest of your post. Yet, i am afraid it's not going to happen very easily. Achieving an adequate living standard for everyone would mean probably having one world government, and a socialist one. I am not against it, but surely it won't end problems, and possibly create other ones. Not to talk about the fact that better living standards would most probably increase natality rates. Of course, science could be able to solve, at least in theory, all these problems, but do we really want a world ruled by scientific rationality ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentRJ Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 10 hours ago, mauGR1 said: Not to talk about the fact that better living standards would most probably increase natality rates. Just the opposite, according to the history of economic development. Two main causes of population increase in undeveloped countries are: the need for more family members to take care of the parents in their old age, due to a lack of social services in the country, and the need for more 'effectively free' labour to manage and develop the farm or whatever business, in the hope of raising living standards at least a little. Of course, science could be able to solve, at least in theory, all these problems, but do we really want a world ruled by scientific rationality ? Absolutely, yes. A world ruled by 'irrationality' summarizes all the problems mankind faces in the present and the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: humans for about 50,000 Seriously? I think you're a few tens of thousands out there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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