Do you believe in God and why

[Tagged]

A soldier who go to war, will be a different soldier before combat and after, thats the nature of life! 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

I would say it was strange if people stayed status Q all their life, I would go so far that they never progressed, experienced, or evolved nothing. I would call that sad! 

Agree, mind and intelligence are not made of stone, yet i appreciate when one's actions are consistent with one's words.

[Tagged]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Agree, mind and intelligence are not made of stone, yet i appreciate when one's actions are consistent with one's words.

????????

 

well, every time someone treathen to kill me, I quite happy their lack of consistent With their words ???? 

[sirineou]

27 minutes ago, Tagged said:

A soldier who go to war, will be a different soldier before combat and after, thats the nature of life! 

never mind before and after combat, which is ifcourse true. but Interesting fact: 

in between 7 and 10 years every single cell in your body has being replaced to the point where, aside from memories nothing of your original self remains. 

[CMNightRider]

"The Bible is scientifically accurate. One must always be cautious against using circular reasoning such that scientific theories are enlightened by the scripture and then those theories are used to show that the scriptures are reliable. But quite aside from the evidence for controversial theories like special creation, or the co-existence of men and dinosaurs; there are a number of rather startling statements in the Bible which appear to be far more advanced than the scientific knowledge at the time of writing. Moreover, there has never been an irreconcilable discrepancy between scientific facts or laws and the scriptures.

 

• Jeremiah 33:22 claims that the stars of the heaven are innumerable. Hippocrates, before the invention of the telescope charted and numbered 1,022 stars. Kepler later recounted and revised the number. Today scientists agree with Jeremiah. There are billions just in our galaxy! It is interesting that the Bible makes the number of stars roughly equivalent to the number of grains of sand on the seashore (Genesis 22:17; Hebrews 11:12). Carl Sagan also compared these two, leaning towards the number of stars being greater. Amazingly, the latest estimates of the gross number of sand grains are comparable to the modern estimated number of stars in the universe!
• Judges 5:20 mentions “the stars in their courses.” While it was once believed that the stars were fixed, today we know that they too move in a predictable way.
• Job 38:19 is accurate in the way it characterizes light. Note that darkness is in a place but light is in a way. It travels a path.
• Job 38:24 indicates the light of the sun (by heating) makes the wind.
• In Genesis 1:1 and Hebrews 1:10-12 the Bible is unequivocal that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written many people believed the universe was eternal. Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900’s and continuing still today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning.
• Moreover, the universe is expanding (Job 9:8; Isaiah 42:5; Jeremiah 51:15; Zechariah 12:1). Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens. During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it oscillated and would eventually collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth. This discovery revolutionized the field of astronomy. Einstein admitted his mistake, and today most astronomers agree with what the Creator told us millennia ago – the universe is expanding!
• Job 36:27 asks how the rain drops stay small (discrete even in a strong wind)? One of the key reasons is found in Psalm 135:5-7 and again in Jeremiah 51:16. Because of the electrical charges in the clouds, the rain drops repel each other as they fall. This is why electrical static during a rain or snow storm can be so disruptive of electronic transmissions.
• Ezekiel 5:5, 38:12 claims that Jerusalem is the center of the earth. ICR commissioned a computer analysis of the earth’s land-masses and discovered that the geographic center is in Palestine, near the holy city.
• Psalm 103:12 The Psalmist seeks to describe how far away God has removed the sins of those who have been forgiven. Interestingly, one can go west or east forever, unlike north and south.
• Hebrews 1:11-12 describes the wearing down of the creation in language that nicely mirrors the second law of thermodynamics and II Peter 3:12 describes the heavens one day passing away in a fire that causes the elements to melt in fervent heat (a pretty accurate description of nuclear meltdown).
• Ecclesiastes 1:4-6 describes the whirling motion of the winds and the movement of storm fronts long before the advent of modern meteorology. Unlike other ancient wisdom narratives, like The Book of Enoch 33:3-4, that claim the wind comes from a heavenly portal, this Biblical passage explains that the winds circle back to their starting point.
• Many ancient cultures believed that there was one heaven, like a hard dome over the Earth. The stars were planted in it like overhead lights and the clouds moved along the face of it. This whole heavenly sphere would then rotate around the Earth. But Genesis 1:1 states that God created the heavens (plural) and Deuteronomy 10:14 talks about multiple heavens: “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord‘s…” The Bible accurately separates the first heaven (our atmosphere where the birds fly and the clouds form) from the second heaven where the cosmic bodies are: “Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host” (Nehemiah 8:6). Moreover, II Corinthians 12:2-4 mentions a third heaven as being “paradise,” the dwelling place of God.
• Ecclesiastes 1:7 says, “All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.” Such a correct view of the hydrologic cycle eluded ancient civilizations up until a few centuries ago. Only in recent times have scholars appreciated the remarkable significance of the clear, scientifically-accurate description of water found in the Bible’s section of wisdom literature. For example, Job 36:27-28 states, “He draws up the drops of water, which distil as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind” (Job 36:27-29).
• Job 37:16 also gives significant meteorological information, including the balancing of the vapors in the clouds. Job 36:27 adds that the quantity of the rain is proportional to the amount of vapor aloft.
• Job 26:7 The ancients Greeks believed that the world was held up by Atlas. Other civilizations held similar ideas. The Bible made an unusual claim: God did not hang the world on anything."

[CMNightRider]

If the Bible gives evidence of being the word of God and it is reliable when it speaks historically, prophetically, etc.; than it is also likely to be trustworthy when it speaks theologically and gives the simple plan of salvation as follows…

• • • • You are a sinner. (Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”)
      • The penalty for sin is eternal death, separation from God. (Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”)
      • Christ died as a substitute, paying your penalty (Romans 5:8 “But God showed His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.”)
      • If you repent and call upon Jesus to save you, He promises you eternal life as a free gift. (Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”)

The Bible is very clear in making an exclusive claim on the path to God. “He that believes on the Son has everlasting life; but he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him”. (John 3:36) “Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). 

[Sunmaster]

Yeah, but that's just your opinion.
And for me the best example that not every opinion is equal to all other opinions.

[VincentRJ]

6 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Scientific rationality is just as welcomed as creative intuition...left brain + right brain...one without the other will tend to fall out of balance and move towards an extreme. 
 

Yes, of course. Anyone who was able to use only one side of their brain, whether just the left side or just the right side, would be in trouble. Whilst the right brain is associated with creativity, both sides of the brain are in constant contact, and scientific innovation tends to be reliant upon 'whole brain' activity.

 

The following Scientific American article explains it quite well.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-it-true-that-creativit/

 

"But having personally researched both brain function and creativity for the same 20 years, I have concluded that creativity is a mental process utilizing all of the brain's specialized capabilities. It is, therefore, "whole brained."

 

"From a left brain/right brain perspective, the creative process can be diagnosed as follows: Interest (left and right), preparation (left), incubation (right), illumination (right), verification (left) application (left and right). It is a balanced process--four "lefts" and four "rights."

[Sunmaster]

The following is something I came across early in my research (20+ years ago) and has influenced me deeply.

This system is called Spiral Dynamics:
Spiral dynamics is a psychological model that highlights stages of development specifically around values. This hierarchy of value structures consists of eight levels that individuals express in their psychological life. These eight stages are developmental in that we grow through these stages.

 

This system is not related to religious entities and isn't  biased towards any one side, but is an attempt to map out the development of values throughout the history of mankind. Each one of us can find the stage that most resonates with our belief system. Instead of saying "I'm red", it would be more correct to say that an individual gravitates more towards one stage than another. 
Every stage is necessary in the development of the next stage, so there's not a "good" or "bad" stage, but there are "healthy" and "unhealthy" developments at each stage. 
Each stage transcends and includes the previous one.

For example: At the amber stage, one values rules and discipline, the believe in a personal God is widespread and this idea of God will reflect the stage around which this person gravitates to: a God that sets clear rules, unshakable laws and dire punishments for those who transgress those rules and laws. We have one such example here in this thread.

The unhealthy version of amber, would be rigid conformity to a set dogma, that in extreme cases can degenerate in violence (suicide bombings).

 

Atheists and materialists will find themselves more at home at the orange level, where rationality, individualism and science play a central role and are most valued. 
The unhealthy version of amber can be seen in the unchecked exploitation of nature in the name of progress. 
There are several posters here on the orange level.

 

The first postmodern stage is green. 
This is the most recent stage...one that values the environment, equality between races, religions and social standings. At this level one sees himself as a citizen of the world and becomes socially engaged beyond the borders of his country.
The unhealthy version here are obnoxious social warriors, political correctness gone wild and refusal of any hierarchies ("no opinion is better than any other", yet this opinion automatically sets itself above all others. Ironic,really).
Many posters here at green also.

The upcoming stage in social development is teal. Hopefully that will solve some of the problems created by the unhealthy developments of previous stages.

 

 

It's also interesting to look at entire countries through the lens of spiral dynamics. The US for example appear pretty much divided between amber and orange with a rising green. More progressive countries like Norway and Sweden seem to be more green. Italy, Spain and France are mostly orange and green.

If you'd like to learn more about this theory, I recommend Don Beck's "Spiral Dynamics" and Ken Wilber's "A Theory of Everything".

 

 

It's also interesting to note that spirituality emerges and is interpreted at every level, maybe takes a backseat at orange. ????

The problem is that orange looks at spirituality interpreted by say amber (pre-modern, personal vengeful God, exclusive) and teal (inclusive, Spirit as the Ground of all Being, post-modern); but sees no difference. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Sunmaster

[CMNightRider]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

This system called Spiral Dynamics:
Spiral dynamics is a psychological model that highlights stages of development specifically around values. This hierarchy of value structures consists of eight levels that individuals express in their psychological life. These eight stages are developmental in that we grow through these stages.

 

This system is not related to religious entities and isn't  biased towards any one side, but is an attempt to map out the development of values throughout the history of mankind. Each one of us can find the stage that most resonates with our belief system. Instead of saying "I'm red", it would be more correct to say that an individual gravitates more towards on stage than another. 
Every stage is necessary in the development of the next stage, so there's not a "good" or "bad" stage, but there are "healthy" and "unhealthy" developments at each stage. 
Each stage transcends and includes the previous one.

For example: At the amber stage, one values rules and discipline, the believe in a personal God is widespread and this idea of God will reflect the stage in which to which this person gravitates to: a God that sets clear rules, unshakable laws and dire punishments for those who transgress those rules and laws. We have one such example here in this thread.

The unhealthy version of amber, would be rigid conformity to a set dogma, that in extreme cases can degenerate in violence (suicide bombings).

 

Atheists and materialists will find themselves more at home at the orange level, where rationality, individualism and science play a central role and are most valued. 
The unhealthy version of amber can be seen in the unchecked exploitation of nature in the name of progress. 
There are several posters here on the orange level.

 

The first postmodern stage is green. 
This is the most recent stage...one that values the environment, equality between races, religions and social standings. At this level one sees himself as a citizen of the world and becomes socially engaged beyond the borders of his country.
The unhealthy version here is obnoxious social warriors, political correctness gone wild and refusal of any hierarchies (no opinion is better than any other).
Many posters here at green also.

The upcoming stage in social development is teal. Hopefully that will solve some of the problems created by the unhealthy developments of previous stages.

 

 

It's also interesting to look at entire countries through the lens of spiral dynamics. The US for example appear pretty much divided between amber and orange with a rising green. More progressive countries like Norway and Sweden seem to be more green. Italy, Spain and France are mostly orange and green.

If you'd like to learn more about this theory, I recommend Don Beck's "Spiral Dynamics" and Ken Wilber's "A Theory of Everything".

 

 

It's also interesting to note that spirituality emerges and is interpreted at every level, maybe takes a backseat at orange. ????

The problem is that orange looks at spirituality interpreted by say amber (pre-modern, personal vengeful God, exclusive) and teal (inclusive, post-modern); but sees no difference. 

 

When you take your last breath and kneel before Jesus, I wouldn't mention "Spiral Dynamics "as a reason you didn't believe the Bible, failed to accept God as your creator or the fact Jesus Christ died for your sins.  

 

The good news is you have until you take your last breath to make the most important decision in your life to accept Jesus as your savior and repent of your sins.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

 

When you take your last breath and kneel before Jesus, I wouldn't mention "Spiral Dynamics "as a reason you didn't believe the Bible, failed to accept God as your creator or the fact Jesus Christ died for your sins.  

 

The good news is you have until you take your last breath to make the most important decision in your life to accept Jesus as your savior and repent of your sins.

 

 

Don't worry about me. God in his infinite wisdom will already know everything about me and my intentions. I'm sure he doesn't care if I read the bible or not.

But thanks for caring.

[Skeptic7]

Last gasp... 

 

SPIRAL DYNAMICS!!! ☠️

Edited February 1, 2020 by Skeptic7

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Last gasp... 

 

SPIRAL DYNAMICS!!! ☠️

Yes, the important thing is to comment quickly, without knowing anything about the subject, to give some impression of superiority, right Mr Orange? ????

Edited February 1, 2020 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, the important thing is to comment quickly, without knowing anything about the subject, to give some impression of superiority, right Mr Orange? ????

Well, give him some credit, he has used a new emoticon ????

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Jeremiah 33:22 claims that the stars of the heaven are innumerable. Hippocrates, before the invention of the telescope charted and numbered 1,022 stars. Kepler later recounted and revised the number. Today scientists agree with Jeremiah.

Science certainly does not agree with jeremiah.  Jeremiah could not count the stars , Hippocrates using the technology available to him came with a number and later as technology advanced so did the accuracy of the count.

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Judges 5:20 mentions “the stars in their courses.” While it was once believed that the stars were fixed, today we know that they too move in a predictable way.

No one believed that the stars were fixed, Planet in Greek means wondered, 

"Aristarchus of Samos (/ˌærəˈstɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἀρίσταρχος ὁ Σάμιος, Aristarkhos ho Samios; c. 310 – c. 230 BC) was an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known heliocentric model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe with the Earth revolving around it. He was influenced by Philolaus of Croton, but Aristarchus identified the "central fire" with the Sun, and he put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun.[2] Like Anaxagoras before him, he suspected that the stars were just other bodies like the Sun, albeit further away from Earth. His astronomical ideas were often rejected in favor of the geocentric theories of Aristotle and Ptolemy. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos

I wont even bother to read the rest , if interested , counter with one of them that you find most convincing of your argument and I will be happy to debunk it. 

 

[VincentRJ]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

2 such stories stood out from the rest. One is about a young Israeli guy who abstained from food and water for 8 days, constantly video monitored (it was also a TV show) and checked daily by a (skeptic) doctor. He lost 9 kg in that time, but contrary to what the accepted scientific opinion dictates, he didn't die.

Dry fasting is more challenging that water fasting, but 8 days of dry fasting for a healthy person who is experienced in fasting, should not be too difficult or dangerous, especially considering that the Israeli in the video was allowed to swim and take showers. Even though he did not drink water, the skin would have absorbed some water, and the fat reserves that the body consumes during fasting also contain a certain amount of water.

 

However, the story of the Yogi who did not eat or drink for 70 years is plain ridiculous. ????

The hospital tested him for only 10 days. I think what is likely to be true is that the Yogi had been fasting frequently during a period of 70 years, but obviously not continuously.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, the important thing is to comment quickly, without knowing anything about the subject, to give some impression of superiority, right Mr Orange? ????

Best go back to your drawing board and draw yourself another picture. The fundamentalist evangelical lovingly and caringlly threatened you with eternal torture unless you change your thinking to match his before your last breath. I know you think it's all about you, but my use of "your" term was nothing to do with you, but rather the ridiculous and thinly veiled threat. 

 

(Impression??? Hardly, Mr. Teal is it? ????)

Edited February 1, 2020 by Skeptic7

[Sunmaster]

20 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Best go back to your drawing board and draw yourself another picture. The fundamentalist evangelical lovingly and caringlly threatened you with eternal torture unless you change your thinking to match his before your last breath. I know you think it's all about you, but my use of "your" term was nothing to do with you, but rather the ridiculous and thinly veiled threat. 

 

(Impression??? Hardly, Mr. Teal is it? ????)

Well, if it was meant like that, I admit it was funny and I apologise. Frankly though, it wasn't clear at all from your comment.

[ThaiBunny]

13 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

And for me the best example that not every opinion is equal to all other opinions.

Some opinions are better described as hypotheses as they can be supported by evidence. Others - the deist argument for intelligent design, for example - are merely inferences based on perceptions. And then there's "blind faith" which is just a perception based on prejudice

[Thainess]

No, because every time I arrive in Thailand and see pretty young women smiling at me and trying to get to know me, I realize I am indeed a god in human form.

[mauGR1]

57 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Some opinions are better described as hypotheses as they can be supported by evidence. Others - the deist argument for intelligent design, for example - are merely inferences based on perceptions. And then there's "blind faith" which is just a perception based on prejudice

Fair enough, there's a lot of hair splitting to be done about opinions, at least that's my opinion.

Should we consider a "non-opinion" an opinion too ?

 

[mauGR1]

13 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

The good news is you have until you take your last breath to make the most important decision in your life to accept Jesus as your savior and repent of your sins.

 

Did Jesus say that ?

In my very personal opinion, Jesus was against fundamentalism and bigotry.

[ThaiBunny]

57 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Should we consider a "non-opinion" an opinion too ?

Only if you're dealing in quantum opinions I guess - Schrodinger's Opinion rather than Schrodinger's Cat. I try not to have an opinion on too many things - people seem to believe that everyone should be able to justify their opinions, and as thread after thread (including this one) on TV amply demonstrates, many are prepared to battle to the death for the opportunity to assert their opinion over and over and over and over. My view is that that's my opinion, take it or leave it, but I'm not going to argue it one way or the other since - again as TV amply demonstrates - rational argument does not change opinions. I'd rather just point up the inconsistencies by asking a question, but I don't expect an answer

Edited February 2, 2020 by ThaiBunny

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

My view is that that's my opinion, take it or leave it, but I'm not going to argue it one way or the other since - again as TV amply demonstrates - rational argument does not change opinions. I'd rather just point up the inconsistencies by asking a question, but I don't expect an answer

But is it fair to assume that, since you are here, on this thread, among others, discussing opinions, is because you are interested ?

I think that hearing a vast range of opinions, and discussing them fairly, can be a good exercise for the brain and can enrich one's culture.

I don't see any negatives in that.

[StreetCowboy]

5 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Did Jesus say that ?

In my very personal opinion, Jesus was against fundamentalism and bigotry.

We don’t really know what Jesus said, since we only have third-party testimony.  Even a saint might be tempted to add in an “only” to enforce the message...

[mauGR1]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

We don’t really know what Jesus said, since we only have third-party testimony.  Even a saint might be tempted to add in an “only” to enforce the message...

I don't think that God is a vengeful old geezer, i believe the concept of "eternal damnation" to be a complete fabrication.

Have a look at the parable of the prodigal son.

[StreetCowboy]

30 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't think that God is a vengeful old geezer, i believe the concept of "eternal damnation" to be a complete fabrication.

Have a look at the parable of the prodigal son.

He was only forgiven when he came back.

The church always had to offer the return of the prodigal son to tithe the arrant sinners on their deathbeds.

However, salvation was only on sale through the licensed monopoly of the church, to maximise the revenue from potential heathen converts.

Personally, I’m sceptical that any God who created everything would condemn our brothers and sisters who did not follow a middle-eastern prophet to eternal damnation; that must be tough for the late Incas, and for aliens on other worlds.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

He was only forgiven when he came back.

The church always had to offer the return of the prodigal son to tithe the arrant sinners on their deathbeds.

However, salvation was only on sale through the licensed monopoly of the church, to maximise the revenue from potential heathen converts.

Personally, I’m sceptical that any God who created everything would condemn our brothers and sisters who did not follow a middle-eastern prophet to eternal damnation; that must be tough for the late Incas, and for aliens on other worlds.

Not sure i fully understand your post, but, although i believe we have to pay a price for our mistakes, there is always a way back.

Rule by fear belongs to humans, there is nothing divine about it.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

He was only forgiven when he came back.

The church always had to offer the return of the prodigal son to tithe the arrant sinners on their deathbeds.

However, salvation was only on sale through the licensed monopoly of the church, to maximise the revenue from potential heathen converts.

Personally, I’m sceptical that any God who created everything would condemn our brothers and sisters who did not follow a middle-eastern prophet to eternal damnation; that must be tough for the late Incas, and for aliens on other worlds.

How about the children? That if they die before they are baptised they burn forever. 

And what about all the people that went to hell for a sin that later was determined by the church not to me a sin, wold they be released from hell, and could the sue for wrongful condemnation?  

[Tagged]

45 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't think that God is a vengeful old geezer, i believe the concept of "eternal damnation" to be a complete fabrication.

Have a look at the parable of the prodigal son.

Imagine god is like Trump? Who knows,,,,,,,,,