Do you believe in God and why

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

How about the children? That if they die before they are baptised they burn forever. 

And what about all the people that went to hell for a sin that later was determined by the church not to me a sin, wold they be released from hell, and could the sue for wrongful condemnation?  

I think it is pretty clear that the church(es) hijacked religion for their own purposes, and I doubt that God takes much notice of their pontifications.  Again, those with a closer link to God here may correct me.

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Imagine god is like Trump? Who knows,,,,,,,,,

I would say be careful of your imagination ????

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

I think it is pretty clear that the church(es) hijacked religion for their own purposes, and I doubt that God takes much notice of their pontifications.  Again, those with a closer link to God here may correct me.

I would even go as far as saying that religions hijacked spirituality. I believe they started with good intentions, but when you have an "enlightened" teaching that gets corrupted by centuries of unenlightened followers, disaster is bound to happen. It's like the blind trying to guide the blind.
 

They crucified Jesus once, but his teaching have been crucified for centuries by misinterpretations.

How many eons of damnation will this post cost me? ????

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:21 AM, VincentRJ said:

Good point! If we don't change our ways and we insist on doing everything in accordance with ancient scriptures and ancient practices, and continue using obsolete technology, then we'll never realize that goal of achieving at least an adequate living standard for everyone everywhere.

 

I'm very skeptical about the claimed significance of anthropogenic emissions of CO2 on climate, but I understand the political motivation in demonizing CO2. It drives the creation of new sources of energy. Solar power with battery storage, eventually, will likely be cheaper than fossil fuels, and just as reliable as battery technology progresses.

The energy from the sun is effectively limitless. 

 

For example, if the entire area of the Sahara Desert were covered with solar panels, it would generate about 20 times the total amount of energy from all sources that is currently used world-wide, converting everything into equivalent Kilowatt Hours.

 

Nuclear power is another option. Nuclear fusion ( as opposed to nuclear fission) is still under development but will likely become a practical option eventually. The advantages of Nuclear Fusion are: no long-lived nuclear waste, no risk of melt-down as occurred at Fukushima during the Tsunami, and no bi-products that can be exploited for nuclear weapons.

 

The main problems we face into the future are incompetence, corruption, greed, power struggles, and religious and cultural squabbling which results in military conflict and huge amounts of resources wasted in maintaining large armies.

The main problems we face into the future

 

You missed the biggest one which is going to be more harmful than all the rest put together- AI robotics is going to destroy every menial job, and many more intellectual jobs as well.

In effect every job that a low skilled worker does will be done by a machine, which is a problem for every low skilled worker unemployable- billions of them.

 

I know about the Sahara thing, but I doubt there is enough raw materials to make all the panels and the batteries necessary. Getting the power from the Sahara to Greenland might present some problems- agree?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2020 at 7:10 PM, VincentRJ said:

What nonsense! Do you know that the total mass of earth worms in the soil, under your feet, is far greater than the total mass of humans above the soil? Do you know that the total amount of life below the surface of the soil, such as insects, worms, bacteria, micro-organisms, tree roots and plant roots, is far greater than the total amount of life above the soil, including all plants, all farm animals, all wild animals, and all humans and their pets?

 

We have the technology and resources to provide a good and prosperous lifestyle for far more than the current population which is approaching 8 billion.
 

What a deflection!

I made a statement referring to humans and you bring up earthworms.

Anything to say about Gaia and the end of humanity?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:53 PM, mauGR1 said:

That's true, but it's also true that if we look at the past, the present and the possible futures, we have to accept that we are built that way.

As individuals though, we have the ability to better ourselves, and consequently to better the world.

and therein lies the biggest mystery of all. Why do the humans that could make a difference not do so, preferring to do bad things instead? A few % of humans own most of the money, and work actively to become richer while consigning billions to a horrible life without hope.

I have no idea, but the shining light of possibility that Jack Kennedy ushered in died with him, and humans are IMO running in circles but not getting any further in banning war than was the case in the middle ages.

All western countries seem to do is come up with stupid things like more than two genders etc etc etc.

However, we have become exceedingly good at killing other people.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and therein lies the biggest mystery of all. Why do the humans that could make a difference not do so, preferring to do bad things instead? A few % of humans own most of the money, and work actively to become richer while consigning billions to a horrible life without hope.

Yes, after thousands of years of evolution, humans have still a caveman mentality, fighting each other in every possible way.

I came to the conclusion that we are made that way, great ideals are in conflict with the reality of the physical world, and the only way to get out of here is through spiritual means.

Belief in a better afterlife is the hope that keep many people going; it may well be a false hope, according to the dear atheists, but having hope is better than nothing anyway,  the other option being to sink in this material madness.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The main problems we face into the future

 

You missed the biggest one which is going to be more harmful than all the rest put together- AI robotics is going to destroy every menial job, and many more intellectual jobs as well.

In effect every job that a low skilled worker does will be done by a machine, which is a problem for every low skilled worker unemployable- billions of them.

 

Nonsense! If a robot can do all jobs more efficiently than a human, then the resources are available to provide the same degree of prosperity, and even increased prosperity, to every individual whose job has been taken over. 

 

How that person spends his time, free of laborious work, is another issue. He might take up reading more books, studying Philosophy or other subjects, engaging in charity work, painting pictures, doing photography, engaging in scientific research, and so on.

 

If robots do all the work, then everyone can get free health care, free life-long education, free housing, free travel, and so on. It's the equivalent of paradise on Earth. ????

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What a deflection!

I made a statement referring to humans and you bring up earthworms.

Anything to say about Gaia and the end of humanity?

The end of humanity has nothing to do with the concept of Gaia, which is a human construct. Humanity will probably survive for as long as rationality dominates. I say probably because there might be cosmic events, such as massive meteorites descending on the Earth, which could cause massive extinction of life, which is beyond our control, or even a massive nuclear war due to the plain stupidity of politicians and the people who elected them.

 

 

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

If robots do all the work, then everyone can get free health care, free life-long education, free housing, free travel, and so on. It's the equivalent of paradise on Earth. 

Definitely you have some faith in technology !

[VincentRJ]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Definitely you have some faith in technology !

Absolutely! Because it works. Because I can see the results. Because it's rational and logical. Because it can be explained clearly with supportive evidence of the highest quality, and so on.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, VincentRJ said:

Absolutely! Because it works. Because I can see the results. Because it's rational and logical. Because it can be explained clearly with supportive evidence of the highest quality, and so on.

I wish i could share a bit of your optimism, but i just can't.

If we look at the past 100 years, technology has increased and improved exponentially, but our lives have not improved at the same pace. Imho.

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I wish i could share a bit of your optimism, but i just can't.

If we look at the past 100 years, technology has increased and improved exponentially, but our lives have not improved at the same pace. Imho.

How can you say our life have not improved? We live longer, with better healt, and better healt care than any other generation. More babies survive, and have a great uppertunity to choose what they want to do in life. Less slavery, less poverty, and less hunger. 

 

Edit note: you have no reasons to say life have not improved. How dare you ????

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Tagged

[VincentRJ]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I wish i could share a bit of your optimism, but i just can't.

If we look at the past 100 years, technology has increased and improved exponentially, but our lives have not improved at the same pace. Imho.

Mine has. There's no way I would prefer to live during the period 100 years ago, and I'm certainly not rich.

[mauGR1]

Just now, Tagged said:

How can you say our life have not improved? We live longer, with better healt, and better healt care than any other generation. More babies survive, and have a great uppertunity to choose what they want to do in life. Less slavery, less poverty, and less hunger. 

 

 

I didn't say that our life didn't improve.

I just don't believe technology to be the answer to ALL the problems.

Nowadays we have more and more stressed people, and a lot of people are slaves, even if they don't realise it.

[sirineou]

37 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Nonsense! If a robot can do all jobs more efficiently than a human, then the resources are available to provide the same degree of prosperity, and even increased prosperity, to every individual whose job has been taken over. 

 

How that person spends his time, free of laborious work, is another issue. He might take up reading more books, studying Philosophy or other subjects, engaging in charity work, painting pictures, doing photography, engaging in scientific research, and so on.

 

If robots do all the work, then everyone can get free health care, free life-long education, free housing, free travel, and so on. It's the equivalent of paradise on Earth. ????

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

[VincentRJ]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Nowadays we have more and more stressed people, and a lot of people are slaves,

I think what you mean is that nowadays we have many more people and many more psychological specialists who can diagnose the conditions of stress that were overlooked in the past.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

I think what you mean is that nowadays we have many more people and many more psychological specialists who can diagnose the conditions of stress that were overlooked in the past.

Lol, many psychological specialists have mental problems themselves, and from what i heard lots of young people in US and Europe are already addicted to anti-depressants.

But, i don't want to disagree with you at all costs, simply, the picture you paint is a bit too rosy !

[VincentRJ]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

With money, obviously. Money is printed by the government. If there are no resources to back up the value of the money, then the economy can collapse. However, as long as we have the energy to fuel the robots that provide all the products we need, then no problem. The money can be distributed to all citizens, in proportion to the amount of products the robots produce, taking into consideration the cost of operating and maintaining the robots.

[VincentRJ]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, many psychological specialists have mental problems themselves, and from what i heard lots of young people in US and Europe are already addicted to anti-depressants.

But, i don't want to disagree with you at all costs, simply, the picture you paint is a bit too rosy !

Nothing in comparison with the opium addiction in China around 200 years ago, plus and minus a few decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

 

"Imports of opium into China stood at 200 chests annually in 1729, when the first anti-opium edict was promulgated. By the time Chinese authorities reissued the prohibition in starker terms in 1799, the figure had leaped; 4,500 chests were imported in the year 1800. The decade of the 1830s witnessed a rapid rise in opium trade, and by 1838, just before the First Opium War, it had climbed to 40,000 chests. The rise continued on after the Treaty of Nanking (1842) that concluded the war. By 1858 annual imports had risen to 70,000 chests (4,480 long tons (4,550 t)), approximately equivalent to global production of opium for the decade surrounding the year 2000."

[Sunmaster]

The big problem is still energy. Wars are fought about energy (oil for now), because the resources are limited. Great social disparity is caused by who has vast resources of energy and who is dependedn on other countries. 
Hopefully, some time in the future, a new energy source will become available. A source that is unlimited, with low production cost and available to everybody. This will be the true equalizer.
Technology without access to unlimited energy is still subject to control by those who control the energy.
 

[Tagged]

33 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I didn't say that our life didn't improve.

I just don't believe technology to be the answer to ALL the problems.

Nowadays we have more and more stressed people, and a lot of people are slaves, even if they don't realise it.

The people who is slaves, and who are stressed, is by their own foult. Yes I have been a slave, and I have been stressed, but everything is a learning process. With all knownledge at an average mans reach, he still choose his life path. We all do, and most of us have choices, compare to a Japanese or Chinese. You of all of us in here have read and studied your all life to find the answers, but what you find, is stress and slavery? Is that point of view? 

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, sirineou said:

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

Have you not been observing what is going on? The "living wage" is what most will have to live on. It's a lie of course as it's a survival wage, and not much living on it.

 

BTW, the output of the robots will be mainly for the rich, and those that serve them. The rest of us will be a permanent underclass. It's been written about for at least all my life, but now looks like it will actually happen.

[mauGR1]

The belief that some political system, or technology, or some clean, unlimited energy will make this world a perfect place for everyone is naive imho.

History repeat itself, the power and the resources have always been in the hands of a few, who have the best interest in fomenting conflicts to divide the masses and keep on ruling the planet.

The best revolution is to improve oneself, and the only just war is the one one fights with one's low instincts, to reach a higher state of consciousness.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The big problem is still energy. Wars are fought about energy (oil for now), because the resources are limited. Great social disparity is caused by who has vast resources of energy and who is dependedn on other countries. 
Hopefully, some time in the future, a new energy source will become available. A source that is unlimited, with low production cost and available to everybody. This will be the true equalizer.
Technology without access to unlimited energy is still subject to control by those who control the energy.
 

Joking right? The rich will keep that energy source for themselves, and keep the masses poor. If they can steal all the water and make the poor pay for it, they can get away with anything.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The belief that some political system, or technology, or some clean, unlimited energy will make this world a perfect place for everyone is naive imho.

History repeat itself, the power and the resources have always been in the hands of a few, who have the best interest in fomenting conflicts to divide the masses and keep on ruling the planet.

The best revolution is to improve oneself, and the only just war is the one one fights with one's low instincts, to reach a higher state of consciousness.

The Romans perfected "divide and rule". Their descendants continue to do so.

 

[sirineou]

14 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

With money, obviously. Money is printed by the government. If there are no resources to back up the value of the money, then the economy can collapse. However, as long as we have the energy to fuel the robots that provide all the products we need, then no problem. The money can be distributed to all citizens, in proportion to the amount of products the robots produce, taking into consideration the cost of operating and maintaining the robots.

yes , but how will they make that money if they have no jobs? 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

The people who is slaves, and who are stressed, is by their own foult. Yes I have been a slave, and I have been stressed, but everything is a learning process. With all knownledge at an average mans reach, he still choose his life path. We all do, and most of us have choices, compare to a Japanese or Chinese. You of all of us in here have read and studied your all life to find the answers, but what you find, is stress and slavery? Is that point of view? 

Well, one can agree that as white people, at least in this historical era, we are the most fortunate.

Yet, pls don't tell me that everyone's happy in US or Europe.
I can also agree that one is responsible for his/her well being, but to say that in the modern era life is easy, is, frankly, an exaggeration.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Romans perfected "divide and rule". Their descendants continue to do so.

 

Ok, blame the Romans, if you wish so, but surely they learned the tricks from their predecessors ????

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Joking right? The rich will keep that energy source for themselves, and keep the masses poor. If they can steal all the water and make the poor pay for it, they can get away with anything.

Not necessarily. What if there's an open source technology, where you can simply download the plans from the internet for anyone to replicate...how will the rich stop that?
Of course we're talking hypothetically here...such a free energy still has to be discovered. In any case, I'm optimistic about that. The energy is there, we just don't know how to tap into it yet.