Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

Nonsense! If a robot can do all jobs more efficiently than a human, then the resources are available to provide the same degree of prosperity, and even increased prosperity, to every individual whose job has been taken over. 

 

How that person spends his time, free of laborious work, is another issue. He might take up reading more books, studying Philosophy or other subjects, engaging in charity work, painting pictures, doing photography, engaging in scientific research, and so on.

 

If robots do all the work, then everyone can get free health care, free life-long education, free housing, free travel, and so on. It's the equivalent of paradise on Earth. ????

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Tell that to the denizens of northern England where 3 generations of unemployed live in the same house. I assure you not much studying of philosophy going on up there.

BTW they get free health care on the NHS, free or cheap council housing, education if they can be bothered ( but would rather watch garbage on tv, or go down pub ), If they are over 60 they get free travel on public transport.

It is NOT paradise on Earth.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

yes , but how will they make that money if they have no jobs? 

They'll be showered with money by the robots ?

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, one can agree that as white people, at least in this historical era, we are the most fortunate.

Yet, pls don't tell me that everyone's happy in US or Europe.
I can also agree that one is responsible for his/her well being, but to say that in the modern era life is easy, is, frankly, an exaggeration.

We got lazy, thats the problem, and when we experience peace, silence and no trouble we have a problem. Humanity at its best, we need challenges. 

[mauGR1]

Just now, Tagged said:

We got lazy, thats the problem, and when we experience peace, silence and no trouble we have a problem. Humanity at its best, we need challenges. 

Quite agree here, it's a cycle.

[Tagged]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

Im going to invest in a couple of robots to go to work for me! Good uppertunity for everyone when that happens. 

[VincentRJ]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Tell that to the denizens of northern England where 3 generations of unemployed live in the same house. I assure you not much studying of philosophy going on up there.

BTW they get free health care on the NHS, free or cheap council housing, education if they can be bothered ( but would rather watch garbage on tv, or go down pub ), If they are over 60 they get free travel on public transport.

It is NOT paradise on Earth.

Isn't education compulsory in developed societies? In an advanced society where every individual effectively has hundreds of slaves in the form of robots, producing everything the individual needs, including the construction of buildings for schools and universities, the emphasis in such a society would surely be on education.

 

A society in which large numbers of people can't be bothered with education is not the sort of society which would ever have highly developed and sophisticated robots doing most of the work.

 

A government in such a 'robotized' society could institute rules and regulations designed to encourage people to engage in more education. There could be a basic entitlement for everyone, that allows for a living standard significantly above the poverty line, whether one is stupid or not. There could be increased levels of entitlement for those who make the effort to achieve a higher level of education in whatever discipline, and a yet higher level of entitlement for those who are very highly educated and do work in developing and maintaining the robotic structure in the society.

 

What's the problem?
 

[sirineou]

13 hours ago, Tagged said:

Im going to invest in a couple of robots to go to work for me! Good uppertunity for everyone when that happens. 

actually not a bad idea, we already augment our capabilities with automated processes. In fact IMO it would be the only solution, but rather than owning a robot to do your work, be part owner of the whole robotic production process and receive a return in your investment. It starts with UBI , where every citizen has a basic investment by virtue of the fact   that he/she is a citizen, and then such return increases proportionally to additional investment/contribution.  

 But we are not ready for that and will not be until pain allowed as to get over our counter socialist bias.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by sirineou

[StreetCowboy]

On 2/3/2020 at 10:35 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

5555555555555555555555555

Tell that to the denizens of northern England where 3 generations of unemployed live in the same house. I assure you not much studying of philosophy going on up there.

BTW they get free health care on the NHS, free or cheap council housing, education if they can be bothered ( but would rather watch garbage on tv, or go down pub ), If they are over 60 they get free travel on public transport.

It is NOT paradise on Earth.

Paradise is not enough.  We tried it once, but we didn't like it.

[VincentRJ]

On 2/5/2020 at 12:38 AM, sirineou said:

actually not a bad idea, we already augment our capabilities with automated processes. In fact IMO it would be the only solution, but rather than owning a robot to do your work, be part owner of the whole robotic production process and receive a return in your investment. It starts with UBI , where every citizen has a basic investment by virtue of the fact   that he/she is a citizen, and then such return increases proportionally to additional investment/contribution.  

 But we are not ready for that and will not be until pain allowed as to get over our counter socialist bias.  

Well done! You've answered your own question that you raised in post #5986. ????

 

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

 

Everyone gets a basic salary by virtue of being a citizen, or a Universal Basic Investment entitlement, whatever you want to call it.
 

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Well done! You've answered your own question that you raised in post #5986. ????

 

On 2/4/2020 at 9:38 PM, sirineou said:

actually not a bad idea, we already augment our capabilities with automated processes. In fact IMO it would be the only solution, but rather than owning a robot to do your work, be part owner of the whole robotic production process and receive a return in your investment. It starts with UBI , where every citizen has a basic investment by virtue of the fact   that he/she is a citizen, and then such return increases proportionally to additional investment/contribution.  

 But we are not ready for that and will not be until pain allowed as to get over our counter socialist bias.  

Well done! You've answered your own question that you raised in post #5986. ????

 

 

Quote

if people did not work, how will they buy the products of the robots?

 

 

Everyone gets a basic salary by virtue of being a citizen, or a Universal Basic Investment entitlement, whatever you want to call it.
 

 

 

 

Yeah, right.

More likely, an elite minority will have the control of armies of robots and keep the rest of the population enslaved and under total supervision.. oh, wait..

It's happening right now. Same old story.

[VincentRJ]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Yeah, right.

More likely, an elite minority will have the control of armies of robots and keep the rest of the population enslaved and under total supervision.. oh, wait..

It's happening right now. Same old story.

Yes. It's happening right now in many countries. I'm talking about the potential in the future, of the application of rational thought, free of the dogmatism of religious and cultural beliefs which results in social conflict, poverty, and turmoil.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Yes. It's happening right now in many countries. I'm talking about the potential in the future, of the application of rational thought, free of the dogmatism of religious and cultural beliefs which results in social conflict, poverty, and turmoil.

On some day i like to dream too ????

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

On some day i like to dream too ????

These thoughts occurred whilst I was fully awake. ????

[mauGR1]

23 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

These thoughts occurred whilst I was fully awake. ????

No doubt, and perhaps i am a bit cynical, but i have no great hopes for the humans to change their nature anytime soon.

[ivor bigun]

13 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

No doubt, and perhaps i am a bit cynical, but i have no great hopes for the humans to change their nature anytime soon.

humans have been killing each other since we stood up and walked ,,i suppose many killed each other over which God they worshiped, those that worshiped the sun killed those that worshiped the moon , "my god is better than your god ".

[CMNightRider]

On 2/7/2020 at 6:23 AM, VincentRJ said:

Well done! You've answered your own question that you raised in post #5986. ????

 

 

 

 

Everyone gets a basic salary by virtue of being a citizen, or a Universal Basic Investment entitlement, whatever you want to call it.
 

Where would the money come from to pay every citizen a basic salary or Universal Basic Investment entitlement?

[ThaiBunny]

11 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Where would the money come from to pay every citizen a basic salary or Universal Basic Investment entitlement?

Indirect taxes and enterprise (business) taxes

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

humans have been killing each other since we stood up and walked ,,i suppose many killed each other over which God they worshiped, those that worshiped the sun killed those that worshiped the moon , "my god is better than your god ".

As far as i know, main motives for killing people are greed and lust, mixed with different doses of sheer madness, but carry on blaming God ..

[VincentRJ]

20 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Where would the money come from to pay every citizen a basic salary or Universal Basic Investment entitlement?

Money always comes from the government. It's printed. The government can print as much money as it wants.

 

However, the value of the money depends on the goods and services that the money represents. If there are no goods or services to buy, the money is worthless. 

 

If a society employs efficient, sophisticated and advanced robots that can do most work far more efficiently than humans, at a much lower cost, then the goods and services are available for distribution to all the citizens. Money is an efficient method of distribution of goods and services.
 

[ivor bigun]

15 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

As far as i know, main motives for killing people are greed and lust, mixed with different doses of sheer madness, but carry on blaming God ..

Tell that to the Allha Akbar crowd

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

Tell that to the Allha Akbar crowd

Well, to be frank, i have better things to do ????

[ThaiBunny]

8 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

If a society employs efficient, sophisticated and advanced robots that can do most work far more efficiently than humans, at a much lower cost, then the goods and services are available for distribution to all the citizens. Money is an efficient method of distribution of goods and services.

We're a long way from advanced AI. I was listening to a podcast recently where the real-life example was given of a woman who dialed 9-1-1 and initiated a pizza order. The human despatcher almost immediately recognised the woman need help and was being menaced by someone at the other end; an AI robot would have terminated the call. The same limitations apply to self-driving cars. Humans can apply lessons learned from various circumstances to a set of completely different circumstances almost without thinking; AI used to "self" drive a car has to have experience of the particular environment in which the car is being driven

[VincentRJ]

28 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

We're a long way from advanced AI.

Not at all. We have very advanced AI compared with a hundred years ago, and the sophistication is increasing year by year. 

 

There are a number of countries that  'effectively' provide a basic, minimum salary for every adult. That is, if you are not able to find a job, for any reason, you get an unemployment benefit or a disability allowance. If you are too old to work and don't have a private pension, you get a government funded 'old-age pension'. If you are sick and have no private health insurance, you get free medical care. Such people also get rental assistance, if they don't own their own home, according to certain conditions.

 

Of course, some people complain that such payments are not high enough to maintain a good living standard. However, as such societies develop, producing goods and services more efficiently as a result of advances in AI, and creating an increase in the national wealth, there is no rational and practical reason why such benefits to the unemployed could not increase in proportion.

[ivor bigun]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, to be frank, i have better things to do ????

seems they dont ,its their main aim in life ,to kill anyone who doesnt worship God the way they do .

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

seems they dont ,its their main aim in life ,to kill anyone who doesnt worship God the way they do .

I would not call them religious people; for the little i know about Islam and other religions, true believers don't go around killing people.

[Sunmaster]

The thread has come to its well deserved end. It has passed on to a better life perhaps, or just extinguished itself into eternal oblivion. 

 

Once so bright...now gone, but not forgotten!

 

You had your ups and downs, there were moments of fierce fighting, touching displays of reconciliation, some minds were blown, others remained untouched, threats of eternal damnation were made, zero fcks were given, ....theories explained, others exposed, others misunderstood,.... T.V. records were broken, lives changed, seeds laid, trolls redeemed, bridges built, differences overcome....

 

Let it all sink in now, let the seeds of knowledge grow in the fertile soil of silence. May all partake from the fruits of wisdom until a new generation of believers and sceptics rekindle the flames of discord, and the circle of mind numbing arguments will roll once more.

 

So long gentlemen...and thanks for all the fish.????????

 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The thread has come to its well deserved end. It has passed on to a better life perhaps, or just extinguished itself into eternal oblivion.

i disagree, the thread is not ended yet

..Also, i didn't see any redeemed trolls, but i can concede that they might be tired to click on the "confused emojis".

????

[ivor bigun]

10 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

i disagree, the thread is not ended yet

..Also, i didn't see any redeemed trolls, but i can concede that they might be tired to click on the "confused emojis".

????

It Amazes me that the thread has gone on so long ,and that in this day and age anyone can believe that there is a "God" who made everything ,i have always believed that religion was just a form of control over the people ,take for instance Catholic "confession" that way the local priest held all the cards as he knew who had done wrong ,just a way of getting rich ,as all the religions are ,fantastically wealthy .

[mauGR1]

50 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

It Amazes me that the thread has gone on so long ,and that in this day and age anyone can believe that there is a "God" who made everything ,i have always believed that religion was just a form of control over the people ,take for instance Catholic "confession" that way the local priest held all the cards as he knew who had done wrong ,just a way of getting rich ,as all the religions are ,fantastically wealthy .

Even the most eminent scientists recognize the role of religion in creating a fairly homogeneous society, yet no one can deny that horrible crimes and abuses have been committed in the name of some god or religion, or ideologies like communism and fascism.

Perhaps even capitalism can be considered an ideology.

I think we should take the positive sides of ideologies, and never become fanatics.

 

A question for you, how can you imagine humankind without ideals and ideologies ?

Perhaps we would be just another species of mammals, fighting other species for food and territory.

 

PS

Congratulations, apparently this thread have broken some record.

(And thanks to the mods for tolerating a few off topic posts)

[Pennywise]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. I came here 3 years ago in a Buhddist family and maintained my believe in the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. And I am very gratefull that my Thai wife was baptised end of last year and we visit a bi-lingual christian church in CR since July 2019! God is good and the reason I believe is because he called me a long time ago. Let me close wishing all could be open to hear His voice thru His Holy Spirit and as a result repent of your sins, don't get me wrong, I sin daily myself,  and start a greater and better life. God Bless.