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Do you believe in God and why


ivor bigun

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1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i honestly doubt that you know why the universe was built.

Pls take my imperfect comparison as it is, both cars and human bodies are the product of intelligent design, imho.

II doubt it was built, and certainly know it was not build for us. If it was why is 99.9% of it hostile to us, and inaccessible by us. I personally think it is a big waste of energy and material to create a whole planet to house a sand flea. I think a sandy beach would have being more than adequate. 

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9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

what other evidence is there?

The physical senses are meant to get knowledge about the physical world.

If you want to get some clue about spiritual worlds, you have to use the spiritual senses.

Perhaps you could try meditation ? That if you have the will, which i honestly doubt.

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I don't disregard the old testament at all, but for some reason, i refuse to take it literally.

I could say that we are part of God, and we are separated from God only temporarily.

The Hindus call all this "The game of God" and i am at ease with that definition.

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18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks for kind words, i also find our conversations stimulating.

My faith is not a block of granite, i find myself questioning it and weighting it every day.

Perhaps my life experiences brought me to have some kind of certainty about the existence of an intelligent design, but that doesn't mean that i'm always completely satisfied with it.

As Mahatma Gandhi said : "Be the change you want to see in the world"... If one doesn't want to make that effort, it's rather pointless to complain, imho.

 

As corny as it might sound, Life  is not a destination but a journey.   I believe it was Socrates or perhaps Plato putting words in Socrates mouth who said "The unexamined life is not worth living " you are doing the right thing don't ever stop.Enjoy the Trip.   

As the Grateful Dead said:

Sometimes the light's all shinin' on me
Other times, I can barely see
Lately, it occurs to me
What a long, strange trip it's been

 

Heading for the Gym now, you all have a good night . 

Edited by sirineou
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8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

As corny as it might sound, Life  is not a destination but a journey.   I believe it was Socrates or perhaps Plato putting words in Socrates mouth who said "The unexamined life is not worth living " you are doing the right thing don't ever stop.Enjoy the Trip.   

As the Grateful Dead said:

Sometimes the light's all shinin' on me
Other times, I can barely see
Lately, it occurs to me
What a long, strange trip it's been

 

Heading for the Gym now, you all have a good night . 

Ahh the Grateful Dead, i knew there was something, when i listen some of their music  (live '69) , it's like jumping carelessly from star to star, as on stones on a shallow river.

I believe that the concepts of "big" or "small" are just figments of our limited human imagination.

We can be at the same time dancing on some needle tip and embracing the whole universe. It's just the same, but different;)

Thoughts and desires exist, they are real, and from a spiritual point of view they are more real than the physical reality.

 

Ps

As i can see you are a knowledgeable kind of folk, i'll be glad to hear your definition of "time"

 

Someone said that time is God, i'm still thinking about it.

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1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

There is no shame in being ignorant of a certain subject, but it's inexcusable to be ignorant and be proud of it too. Especially when it comes from folks who value rational thinking and the pursuit of knowledge as high as they claim...but then do the exact opposite. 

A sad state of affairs...and the only 'sin' worthy of that name.

 

 

I appreciate very much this post, in fact i have had often the same feeling reading some contributions here.

All i can say is , give them time, as most of the truths are temporary, but not many are eternal.

Btw, thanks for your great contributions to this thread, pls keep them coming !

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44 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Ahh the Grateful Dead, i knew there was something, when i listen some of their music  (live '69) , it's like jumping carelessly from star to star, as on stones on a shallow river.

I believe that the concepts of "big" or "small" are just figments of our limited human imagination.

We can be at the same time dancing on some needle tip and embracing the whole universe. It's just the same, but different;)

Thoughts and desires exist, they are real, and from a spiritual point of view they are more real than the physical reality.

 

Ps

As i can see you are a knowledgeable kind of folk, i'll be glad to hear your definition of "time"

 

Someone said that time is God, i'm still thinking about it.

I started to go to the Gym but changed my mind, I woke up this morning , having probably slept wrong with a pain in my neck , and a mild headache , So I decided to leave things well enough , and not chance making the pain in the neck worst.

   Talking about "pain in the neck" today is Valentines day. If you all don't want to never hear the end of it. You better go out and get some flowers n Chocolate or both.

 Time is simply a concept to delineate one event from another . what is IMO referred to as time is the relationship of the sequence of events. and it is relative. 

IMO if you want to use the term "God, which I don't like, because it brings a lot of baggage with it. 

But if you want to go down that rabbit hole then "god" is information  and time is the order that that information relates to each other. 

For instance, you are information. if you possessed the computing power  to examine every aspect of your body , record all the information,  then digitize that information , transmite it to the other side of the Universe and reconstitute it , you would have effectively teleported yourself. 

Of course you still have the problem of the original that you will have to destroy during the examination, and the problem of that you can't examine something at the quantum level without altering it. but both are technological problems. 

 So we are information, and you can't destroy information because it exists independently. 

      so do you ever die? 

You are possible because you exist. that is clear. but however improbable.  An unimaginable sequence of event have to occur for you, and every event in your life to occur.   But not an infinite sequence of events.. 

 So the only limitation is time, How long will it take for those event to occur in the same sequence?

     A very long time but not an infinite  amount of time.  

As we said time is the concepts that delineates one event from another.

  But when you die , for you time stops, Nothing is happening. you are dead, for others time continues, but for you it stops.  From a different perspective an unimaginable amount of time pasess,but from your perspectine none. 

 Cingularity, Big bang, expansion, Black holes in the heart of every galaxy, Black hole consuming every galaxy, Black holes consuming each other,  one huge black hole. 

A singularity.

 another big bang, another expansion , and another contraction so on and so forth.

And eventually the same sequence of events that created you and your life occurs again. 

It took an unimaginable length of time but for you was immediate. 

So you are eternal, every possible version of you and everything else exists simultaneously  

Multiverse in a few words. 

I hope I did not confuse more than I explained. 

 

  

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I hope I did not confuse more than I explained. 

 

  

Well, reading your little poem reminded me of some funny mushrooms i ate many years ago.

So, do you agree that matter is condensed thought ? And on other levels of consciousness, time simply doesn't exist, but it's just a concept relative to the physical world.

Or, let's put it in another way, does consciousness exist because you exist ?

I don't think so.

Consciousness exists, but while in the physical world is limited by time and space, on a spiritual level is unlimited, we can see just a tiny part of it.

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Is happiness, well-being, serenity... measurable? 

In other words by believing or not, practising things or not, is one individual more than another one. 

He of course can feel the difference personally, but can he pretend he is better off than the one doing/believing something or not. 

I am personally ok in my way, and convinced that others feel the same by their way. 

I will/can not pretend that I feel better or less as I don't know how they feel, just as they don't know how I feel. 

I just believe them when they say they feel "good". 

They may believe me I feel " good" too, or than not; some believing one can only reach the level of "good" in their way only. 

 

Edited by luckyluke
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3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

There is no shame in being ignorant of a certain subject, but it's inexcusable to be ignorant and be proud of it too. Especially when it comes from folks who value rational thinking and the pursuit of knowledge as high as they claim...but then do the exact opposite. 

A sad state of affairs...and the only 'sin' worthy of that name.

On 2/13/2020 at 8:25 PM, Sunmaster said:

God also created opportunities to better ourselves through knowledge. Men's ignorance is men made.

Too many people prefer to choose the blue pill of ignorance than being rattled by the inconvenient and uncomfortable red pill.

On 2/13/2020 at 8:29 AM, Sunmaster said:

I've started to meditate regularly again thanks to this thread.

So, while it hasn't changed my belief system, it certainly has rekindled and intensified the longing for union with the divine. 

On 2/1/2020 at 6:17 PM, Sunmaster said:

Don't worry about me. God in his infinite wisdom will already know everything about me and my intentions. I'm sure he doesn't care if I read the bible or not.

But thanks for caring.

 

Summarizing a few of the points from your posts shown above:

 

1) It's inexcusable to be ignorant and to be proud of it, too.

2) God created opportunities to better ourselves through knowledge.

3) You want to have greater knowledge of God, having a "longing for union with the divine."

4) You don't think God cares if you read His Word or not?

 

It looks like you are so close to the truth.  You want the truth.  And the Bible has it.

 

I can respect a man who has studied something and decided not to accept it.  I cannot respect someone who has deliberately rejected something before they learned anything about it.

 

I will tell you this:  God does care if you read the Bible or not.  He says in it:

Quote

Romans

 10:9    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  
 10:10    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.  
 10:11    For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.  
 10:12    For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.  
 10:13    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.  
 10:14    How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?  
 10:15    And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!  
 10:16    But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?  
 10:17    So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.  

 

 

It is difficult to believe or have faith without understanding, and understanding does not come through ignorance.  But without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

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16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Everything at its most basic is just energy. Some choose to believe that that energy came from the creator, while others claim it just happened, all by itself, out of nothing.

I know what seems more logical, but you should feel free to believe that all the energy in the universe is just magic.

With the universe made up of "positive/negative energies" and "particle/antiparticle pairs" with "positive/negative charges" then this could suggest that the universe did indeed come from nothing.

 

In the 1920's Paul Dirac combined special relativity and quantum mechanics, and his equations predicted that antimatter exists... Later, lab experiments have shown that the vacuum of space is filled with a form of particle - antiparticle pairs being created from nothing, where energy is borrowed from nothing creating the particle pairs which then annihilate, paying back the borrowed energy.

996858985_vpgiff.gif.c2790580a9853e2997514da13f9087c7.gif 

 

We call them 'virtual particles' because they only exist for a very short period of time and are not considered real particles. However, in an accelerating frame, 'virtual particles' can become 'real particles' and in the very early universe according to the BB theory the universe had a period of inflation where the space expanded so rapidly,  virtual particles became real. Somehow though there was an imbalance of particle pairs and matter was favoured over antimatter.

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2 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

 

Summarizing a few of the points from your posts shown above:

 

1) It's inexcusable to be ignorant and to be proud of it, too.

2) God created opportunities to better ourselves through knowledge.

3) You want to have greater knowledge of God, having a "longing for union with the divine."

4) You don't think God cares if you read His Word or not?

 

It looks like you are so close to the truth.  You want the truth.  And the Bible has it.

 

I can respect a man who has studied something and decided not to accept it.  I cannot respect someone who has deliberately rejected something before they learned anything about it.

 

I will tell you this:  God does care if you read the Bible or not.  He says in it:

It is difficult to believe or have faith without understanding, and understanding does not come through ignorance.  But without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

Wow, that must have taken some effort. 

 

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate the intention. 

However, on point 4...I said I don't think God cares if I read the bible or not. Meaning, if I can find Truth from another source, reading the bible becomes irrelevant and God certainly won't mind, as long as I'm moving towards Him.

 

Believe it or not, there are other sources of wisdom out there, and my personal opinion is they greatly outshine the bible when it comes to the practical matters of introspection and meditation. 

While the bible may simply offer prayer and faith, the Yoga Sutras by Patanjali for example describe the inner journey in great detail, from the very beginning to the final realization of the oneness with God. For my purpose it's the more logical and practical choice.

 

If you can find the answers you're seeking in the bible, that's great, I'm happy for you. My search though,  is taking me beyond just having faith and hoping for the best. 

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1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

My teacher said:

"You cannot know God by intellect or by mind. You have to feel Him, you have to experience Him. Self-realization is what you realize within yourself. All truth must be assimilated, not just kept on the intellectual plane. When we assimilate truth, then we find the harmony of all religions. "

Did you say the same to him  when he asked, where was his tuition payment? :tongue:

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35 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Meaning, if I can find Truth from another source, 

.... 

 

Believe it or not, there are other sources of wisdom out there... 

There are indeed many sources to find "Truth" and "Wisdom". 

 

Truth and wisdom being relative concepts everyone can found/reach it, whatever the way used. 

 

The aim is the same, the paths are different,

but there are no major and minor roads in this quest. 

 

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8 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

There are indeed many sources to find "Truth" and "Wisdom". Truth and wisdom being relative concepts everyone can found/reach it, whatever the way used. The aim is the same, the paths are different, but there are no major and minor roads in this quest. 

The "self" is a made up construct, a story we concoct as we go along to make sense of the experiences we think we're having - https://www.newscientist.com/round-up/self/

 

Religion, truth, wisdom are merely elements of that story. Consider the known unreliability of eye-witness testimony - https://www.ncsc.org/microsites/trends/home/Monthly-Trends-Articles/2017/The-Trouble-with-Eyewitness-Identification-Testimony-in-Criminal-Cases.aspx

Edited by ThaiBunny
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1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I doubt he cares about money, since he has left his body behind.

Btw, I don't mind if you mock me or my beliefs, but please try to be mature enough not to mock my teacher, if you can. Thanks

How did he said that if he had left his bodY? 

By the way did you notice the tongue in cheek emoji after my comment?   

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Just now, sirineou said:

How did he said that if he had left his bodY? 

By the way did you notice the tongue in cheek emoji after my comment?   

I didn't say he said it to me in an eye to eye sitting. He wrote it down before he died, obviously. 

 

If I seem to be too cranky this early morning, I'll just blame Trump. ????

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3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

 I don't mind if you mock me or my beliefs, but please try to be mature enough not to mock my teacher, if you can. Thanks

Mocking is something not advisable. 

However there is no one, or nothing, more subject or less, to not been mocked if one feel the need to use mockery. 

 

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1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I didn't say he said it to me in an eye to eye sitting. He wrote it down before he died, obviously. 

 

If I seem to be too cranky this early morning, I'll just blame Trump. ????

A syndrome we all suffer  from. :smile:

Hung in there.

image.png.14db39ce5235012c818d4a6a8be9fbd0.png

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6 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The "self" is a made up construct, a story we concoct as we go along to make sense of the experiences we think we're having - https://www.newscientist.com/round-up/self/

 

Religion, truth, wisdom are merely elements of that story

The Self is the ego. It is indeed a construct and quite a despotic one.

 

Truth is there with or without the Self and not an invention of it.

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