Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

So if, as you say, She is "above our comprehension" how can we begin to make useful comments?

I believe that the physical reality is a mirror of the higher realities.

Thus, observing the physical world, as free as possible from prejudices, we can have an image of the spiritual worlds.

I agree it may be superfluous to many, but personally i find it extremely interesting.

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but if you had little money and your children would have had no future worth living, I believe you would have not had them because you had enough "love" in you to not make children that would have a horrible life.

Love is a useless word to convey the multiple meanings it encompasses. Sex is "love" and someone willing to sacrifice their life for another also has "love". At it's most basic, I believe "love" is caring for another, or many, and if not having children is the better outcome for your wife or the environment, then it would be "love" not to have any.

Only parents are capable of love then? I guess that's why God hates the childless who are same-sex attracted

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I believe that the physical reality is a mirror of the higher realities.

Thus, observing the physical world, as free as possible from prejudices, we can have an image of the spiritual worlds.

I agree it may be superfluous to many, but personally i find it extremely interesting.

But only a hypothesis; there's no way to infer it, let alone know it?

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but if you had little money and your children would have had no future worth living, I believe you would have not had them because you had enough "love" in you to not make children that would have a horrible life.

Love is a useless word to convey the multiple meanings it encompasses. Sex is "love" and someone willing to sacrifice their life for another also has "love". At it's most basic, I believe "love" is caring for another, or many, and if not having children is the better outcome for your wife or the environment, then it would be "love" not to have any.

Of course "Love" has many meanings, and we could spend a life discussing the nuances of it.

Words are rarely perfect, but if we want to have a discussion, we have to use them, and try to agree on the meaning.

The purest form of love, on this planet, appears to be the unconditional love a mother has for her children.

 

As for the children, don't forget that, on one side, we have the desire of the humans to reproduce, and on the other side, we have the desire of spiritual beings to reincarnate to learn more and further their development..

[Lacessit]

There has never been a satisfactory answer to the problem of good and evil.

 

There are undoubtedly evil humans. Some courtesy of their background, others where their evil is inexplicable.

 

According to believers, God is omniscient and omnipotent. Why then does God permit evil?

 

If permitting evil serves a higher purpose, what is it, and why would anyone want to worship such a being?

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to believers, God is omniscient and omnipotent. Why then does God permit evil?

Good and evil are part of the life, at least on this planet. We are born here, and we have to make the best of it.

 

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If permitting evil serves a higher purpose, what is it, and why would anyone want to worship such a being?

I don't worship anything, but if i had to, i'd worship what for me is good and true.

Surely evil has a purpose, as everything. If you recognize evil, just don't do it.

Unfortunately, if you are a good human being, you cannot demand the same from others, as everyone has to do mistakes to learn the lessons.

As far as i can see, there are many extremely evolved humans on this planet, and many who are not very evolved, but, at least, one can choose his/her own direction.

[Sunmaster]

The search for knowledge can be divided into 2 categories: external and internal.

External knowledge comes from books, conversations, from the 5 senses and from intellectual endeavors.

You can know every verse of the bible or the Koran, know the intricacies of every philosophical current and human science.....  and not be one step closer to God. 
Internal knowledge comes when we switch off the 5 senses and interrupt the ceaseless flow of thoughts. In silence God speaks the loudest.

Even the most uneducated person in the world can know God if he puts in the effort to practice.

 

Talking about God, as we do here, is mainly for our own entertainment and for me, to sharpen my external knowledge.

 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Talking about God, as we do here, is mainly for our own entertainment and for me, to sharpen my external knowledge.

..Which is not a bad thing at all, i would add.

I believe that internal and external knowledge, though, and compenetrated in various forms, you can separate them sharply if you wish, but in the same time you can unify them.

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

In silence God speaks the loudest. Even the most uneducated person in the world can know God if he puts in the effort to practice.

How then do you distinguish between the self-induced religious experience and the well-documented religious experiences that can be encouraged via LSD, magic mushrooms and so on?

[Sunmaster]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

..Which is not a bad thing at all, i would add.

I believe that internal and external knowledge, though, and compenetrated in various forms, you can separate them sharply if you wish, but in the same time you can unify them.

I think the best combination is when external and internal work together towards the goal. 
Having an internal spiritual experience without the external knowledge to somehow make sense of it, can be dangerous. 

Having only external knowledge without any internal insights, is much more dangerous in my opinion, because it leads to all kinds of suffering...physical, mental and spiritual.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

How then do you distinguish between the self-induced religious experience and the well-documented religious experiences that can be encouraged via LSD, magic mushrooms and so on?

Good question, i think it's very personal.

Your results may be different from mine, but not necessarily more true or false.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think the best combination is when external and internal work together towards the goal. 
Having an internal spiritual experience without the external knowledge to somehow make sense of it, can be dangerous. 

Having only external knowledge without any internal insights, is much more dangerous in my opinion, because it leads to all kinds of suffering...physical, mental and spiritual.

Well said, but isn't it the suffering in the physical world, in the end, which forces your consciousness to expand above it ?

[Sunmaster]

Just now, ThaiBunny said:

How then do you distinguish between the self-induced religious experience and the well-documented religious experiences that can be encouraged via LSD, magic mushrooms and so on?

There is the spiritual experience and different methods to reach it.

 

Imagine New York. You live in Amsterdam, I live in Bangkok....we both have to travel to NY for an appointment. In the beginning, our trips will be very different from each other. Yours may start with a quick visit at your local "coffee shop", then take a taxi and catch a flight. My trip on the other hand, will start with a visit to my local temple for a prayer and then off to Suvarnabhumi. The closer we get to NY though, the more similar our travel experiences become: we fly over the same ocean, experience the same weather, see the same clouds perhaps. Once we both land in NY, our experiences will be almost identical...we see the same buildings and people and maybe eat the same oversized hamburgers.

 

So, how do you distinguish your NY experience from mine? Does it even matter? We both arrived there...

There is a big difference though between a spiritual level reached through years of meditation and one reached through LSD or mushrooms. 

Imagine the Empire State building. Meditation is like climbing each floor slowly, step by step. Each floor you look out from the window and you see the world beneath you from an increasingly higher perspective. You 'earn' each floor and perspective through your hard work and completely integrate it in your Self, permanently. With each floor, your body gets stronger, you get more confident and can envision a progression of your efforts.

 

Psychotropic substances are the high speed elevator that will take you to the top floors in a very short time. But since you haven't 'earned' it to be there, you can only stay there for the duration of the substance and then have to come down. You will remember (some) of the things you saw looking out of the windows there, but you certainly can't integrate what you saw. Your body, mind and soul are just not ready to assimilate all that knowledge.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Of course "Love" has many meanings, and we could spend a life discussing the nuances of it.

Words are rarely perfect, but if we want to have a discussion, we have to use them, and try to agree on the meaning.

The purest form of love, on this planet, appears to be the unconditional love a mother has for her children.

 

As for the children, don't forget that, on one side, we have the desire of the humans to reproduce, and on the other side, we have the desire of spiritual beings to reincarnate to learn more and further their development..

God gave humans the ability to not reproduce if desired and I never had any desire to reproduce. No other animal has a choice in that way.

However, this is getting away from God and into the realms of to have or not have children and I'm in the have not club, so probably best to leave it there.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well said, but isn't it the suffering in the physical world, in the end, which forces your consciousness to expand above it ?

Yes, the suffering in the physical world can be physical (illness, handicap), mental (stress, depression, instability...) and spiritual (sense of disconnection and separateness). Any of these on their own, but more often a combination of them, can make you question your status quo and look for something else.

 

Let's not forget that EVERYTHING we experience here is always a consequence of a simple choice: avoid pain and seek happiness/bliss. 

When you realize that material things don't bring you the happiness you were seeking, a new target has to be found. If material stuff doesn't bring true happiness, perhaps immaterial stuff will?
Once we realize that being judgmental, resentment, jealousy and hate don't let us avoid pain and certainly don't bring us happiness, another source has to be found. Perhaps compassion, love and understanding will?
Once we realize that we're all in this together, that we are all connected...people, nature, the universe, God...then we will have hit the target.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

God gave humans the ability to not reproduce if desired and I never had any desire to reproduce. No other animal has a choice in that way.

However, this is getting away from God and into the realms of to have or not have children and I'm in the have not club, so probably best to leave it there.

It's a choice for humans, i agree, and of course i respect your choice.

I was of the same opinion, until 24, then i met a special woman (or at least i thought she was )

Still, it's related to the intelligent design, imho, and i have the impression that we, as spiritual beings, we choose a certain family and a certain environment, and a certain bodily form for the spirit to express itself.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, the suffering in the physical world can be physical (illness, handicap), mental (stress, depression, instability...) and spiritual (sense of disconnection and separateness). Any of these on their own, but more often a combination of them, can make you question your status quo and look for something else.

 

Let's not forget that EVERYTHING we experience here is always a consequence of a simple choice: avoid pain and seek happiness/bliss. 

When you realize that material things don't bring you the happiness you were seeking, a new target has to be found. If material stuff doesn't bring true happiness, perhaps immaterial stuff will?
Once we realize that being judgmental, resentment, jealousy and hate don't let us avoid pain and certainly don't bring us happiness, another source has to be found. Perhaps compassion, love and understanding will?
Once we realize that we're all in this together, that we are all connected...people, nature, the universe, God...then we will have hit the target.

If there were an organisation like monks, but without the getting up at 4 am to chant for hours and sleeping in a cold cell I'd be in for it. I know that "stuff" is never going to make me happy, and I'm long past needing female company, so I'd be happy to give it all up to live a self sufficient life with like minded individuals. Sadly, I know of no such organisation in NZ.

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Once we realize that being judgmental, resentment, jealousy and hate don't let us avoid pain and certainly don't bring us happiness, another source has to be found. Perhaps compassion, love and understanding will?

Yes, i think you nailed it ????

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

It's a choice for humans, i agree, and of course i respect your choice.

I was of the same opinion, until 24, then i met a special woman (or at least i thought she was )

Still, it's related to the intelligent design, imho, and i have the impression that we, as spiritual beings, we choose a certain family and a certain environment, and a certain bodily form for the spirit to express itself.

I can agree that we "choose" our life subconsciously, but unfortunately as a result of my childhood "chose" a life where the people I "chose" to be with were toxic to me. I don't believe that we "choose" our life before we are born, but sometimes life, even for those that don't want to be unhappy, just sucks.

 

[Sunmaster]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

If there were an organisation like monks, but without the getting up at 4 am to chant for hours and sleeping in a cold cell I'd be in for it. I know that "stuff" is never going to make me happy, and I'm long past needing female company, so I'd be happy to give it all up to live a self sufficient life with like minded individuals. Sadly, I know of no such organisation in NZ.

I know what you mean. ????

 

Once you get results though, the feeling of peace, the calm and the ever new bliss that comes from your practice, then you will start to gladly wake up at 4am and see sleep as an unwanted distraction. 
I don't say this from personal experience (I wish), but this is what I've learned from other, more advanced people.

Maybe try contacting one of these groups in NZ:
https://yogananda.org/locations-map

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Once we realize that being judgmental, resentment, jealousy and hate don't let us avoid pain and certainly don't bring us happiness, another source has to be found. Perhaps compassion, love and understanding will?

I agree, but despite my best efforts to be the latter, the people I have been involved with do not reciprocate. I don't believe that everyone in the world is a horrible user, but I have not been fortunate enough to become friends with more than a couple. I meet nice people all the time, but few people under 50 want to be "friends" with geriatrics, and I have little in common with people my own age that I meet..

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I know what you mean. ????

 

Once you get results though, the feeling of peace, the calm and the ever new bliss that comes from your practice, then you will start to gladly wake up at 4am and see sleep as an unwanted distraction. 
I don't say this from personal experience (I wish), but this is what I've learned from other, more advanced people.

Maybe try contacting one of these groups in NZ:
https://yogananda.org/locations-map

Thank you, but I want to withdraw entirely from the world and live with a group of like minded people. The modern world, IMO, sucks and I'd rather have nothing to do with it, but it's a step too far to become a hermit. Few of us are islands.

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can agree that we "choose" our life subconsciously, but unfortunately as a result of my childhood "chose" a life where the people I "chose" to be with were toxic to me. I don't believe that we "choose" our life before we are born, but sometimes life, even for those that don't want to be unhappy, just sucks.

 

While i'm not claiming to understand the laws of "Karma" or "cause and effect" , i am convinced that we have to accept what we are given.

In other words, we are given some tools to do a job, and we have to do the job with those tools.

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can agree that we "choose" our life subconsciously, but unfortunately as a result of my childhood "chose" a life where the people I "chose" to be with were toxic to me. I don't believe that we "choose" our life before we are born, but sometimes life, even for those that don't want to be unhappy, just sucks.

 

I am sure that there are many positive things in your life.

Perhaps sometimes we tend to focus on the positives, other times we focus on the negatives, but it's just a spiritual experience, and whatever has a beginning, must have an end.

Jesus said (or at least i think he said) it in 3 words: "Love your enemy".

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

I am sure that there are many positive things in your life.

Perhaps sometimes we tend to focus on the positives, other times we focus on the negatives, but it's just a spiritual experience, and whatever has a beginning, must have an end.

Jesus said (or at least i think he said) it in 3 words: "Love your enemy".

 

I sometimes think that we are all set a task in our lives, and my task is to learn to truly forgive, but so far I have failed at that. Perhaps I will in years to come.

 

I'm just looking out the window at the most amazing sky I've seen in a long time, and there have been a lot of amazing skies recently. Truly God/ Gaia is wondrous to behold.

[ravip]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I am sure that there are many positive things in your life.

Perhaps sometimes we tend to focus on the positives, other times we focus on the negatives, but it's just a spiritual experience, and whatever has a beginning, must have an end.

Jesus said (or at least i think he said) it in 3 words: "Love your enemy".

 

Aparently, man'y do.

When reading comments about wives, it is very clear.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I sometimes think that we are all set a task in our lives, and my task is to learn to truly forgive, but so far I have failed at that. Perhaps I will in years to come.

I think you are spot on with that, i guess it's true for the majority of us.

Personally i would not say that you failed, it takes the time that it takes, and it's not an easy job for anyone.

Perhaps i find as hard to forgive others as i find hard to forgive myself, we cannot change the past, but we have always the chance to improve.

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, ravip said:

Aparently, man'y do.

When reading comments about wives, it is very clear.

I think i get some humour in your comment, personally i have chosen to end those relationships where the S.O. becomes a potential enemy, but i can understand it's not always easy, especially if there are young children who may suffer from that.

[partington]

9 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Where is that physically located within the brain? The prefrontal lobe? The cerebrum? Where's your medical evidence that there are parts of the brain we are not using?

Just as a follow up : the idea that humans do not use most of their brain capacity is another urban myth, beloved of woo merchants who do not critically examine received ideas.

 

Explained in this Scientific American article (as well as many other sources that use facts rather than fantasy.)

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-people-only-use-10-percent-of-their-brains/
 

 

Extract:

"Adding to that mystery is the contention that humans "only" employ 10 percent of their brain. If only regular folk could tap that other 90 percent, they too could become savants who remember to the twenty-thousandth decimal place or perhaps even have telekinetic powers.

 

Though an alluring idea, the "10 percent myth" is so wrong it is almost laughable, says neurologist Barry Gordon at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore. Although there's no definitive culprit to pin the blame on for starting this legend, the notion has been linked to the American psychologist and author William James, who argued in "The Energies of Men" that "We are making use of only a small part of our possible mental and physical resources." It's also been associated with Albert Einstein, who supposedly used it to explain his cosmic towering intellect.

 

The myth's durability, Gordon says, stems from people's conceptions about their own brains: they see their own shortcomings as evidence of the existence of untapped gray matter. This is a false assumption. What is correct, however, is that at certain moments in anyone's life, such as when we are simply at rest and thinking, we may be using only 10 percent of our brains.

"It turns out though, that we use virtually every part of the brain, and that [most of] the brain is active almost all the time," Gordon adds. "Let's put it this way: the brain represents three percent of the body's weight and uses 20 percent of the body's energy."

 

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, partington said:

Just as a follow up : the idea that humans do not use most of their brain capacity is another urban myth, beloved of woo merchants who do not critically examine received ideas.

Perhaps @thaibeachlovers was not using the right scientific words, but to say " woo merchants who do not critically examine received ideas" is a bit of an hype, isn't it ?

Yet, i agree with your scientific approach, but am i wrong if i say that the study of the human brain is just at the beginning ?

So, it's not that because 2 or 3 scientists explain a theory we have to believe that it's the top of human achievements, right ?

 

The size of our brain is lots bigger than any mammals, compared to the body size, that is the physical aspect.

Our extreme physical sensibility produce joy and pain not comparable to other animals.

Animals have simple needs, if we look at humans, a city like New York or London, you can see metaphorical heaven and hell co-existing in the same place.

 

What is intelligence ? Lots of answers to that, that's an interesting topic in itself.

 

My point is, we don't know much about the brain, but the human brain has created computers, so just imagine how intelligent can be the one, or the many, who create the human brains.