Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

Why are you guys wasting your time with this pointless quibbling? He doesn't believe...so be it. 

Some people are not ready for the red pill. No amount of bickering will change that.

 

It's either that or go to sleep. I assume he's stirring so I'm not treating his posts as a serious discussion.

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's either that or go to sleep. I assume he's stirring so I'm not treating his posts as a serious discussion.

The point is that an otherwise mature discussion gets drowned out by the noise of this childish nonsense.

Let's keep some standards. 

[Sparktrader]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The point is that an otherwise mature discussion gets drowned out by the noise of this childish nonsense.

Let's keep some standards. 

Show me proof god exists. If you cannot just admit it. Facts win discussions. Asking for a photo isn't childish. Dodging questions is, politicians do it.

 

1 show me a god photo

2 explain how this creature travels faster than the speed of light

Edited June 28, 2021 by Sparktrader

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

loftily dismissing calls for evidence is what “believers” do typically they cant even separate facts from faith nice god they have too; babies with cancer & deformities, evil everywhere poverty, violence, innocents murdered.....all powerful but powerless eh ? faith is a human right; everybody is free to hold irrational & stupid beliefs just don't impose this childish god stuff on others produce scientific evidence or shut up

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed.  

 

[faraday]

8 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

God doesnt exist

Do you?

[canthai55]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Bye.

Vaya Con Dios

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, faraday said:

Do you?

Topic is about god. 400 pages no proof. Case rested.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Topic is about god. 400 pages no proof. Case rested.

Nope, case is rested when science can disprove the existence of an intelligent design in the visible universe. 

Actually some top scientists, including Einstein, believe that an intelligent design running things is not only possible,  but quite likely. 

Saying "I don't see it, so it doesn't exist" is very poor science ????

[Skeptic7]

13 hours ago, faraday said:

God gave us free will.

 

 

Free will like Karma are ridiculous god arguments and loads of ????. 

 

Where's the free will of all the mal-nourished and abused children...or those suffering and dying horribly with childhood leukemia and other diseases? Where's the free will of the raped or murdered girl? Of trafficked people? 

 

Gimme a break! ????

[Sunmaster]

Picture this for a moment....

 

Imagine a pub where there is a small group of friends gathered around a table, sipping their beers. The atmosphere is friendly, heated at times, but always with a sense of respect for each other. They're talking about their relationships with their wives. Some have been married for a long time, others only for a few years...all share their experiences, worries and joys. 

 

In comes a young lad, visibly inebriated and sits down at the table. Although uninvited, the older guys play along and don't make much of a fuss about it. 

The new guy, fuelled by the carelessness of youth and alcohol, starts to loudly give relationship advise to the others, despite the fact that he has never had a girlfriend in his life and his only sexual experience was with himself. Granted, he was quite the expert in that field in regards to frequency, but his expertise finished there.

Some of the older guys could see right through him and resented the young lad giving advise and boisterously spouting his opinion in matters he clearly had no idea about. 

 

In comes the barman who became aware of this nuisance, takes the lad by the scruff of his neck and firmly accompanies him to the door, leaving the lad wondering what just happened. 

He goes on protesting in front of the pub for some time before leaving, in search for another victim for his ramblings.

 

Peace returns to the table and the conversation carries on as it did before the rude interruption.

 

Isn't this a nice story? And such a happy ending! ????????????

 

[Orinoco]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

Picture this for a moment....

 

Imagine a pub where there is a small group of friends gathered around a table, sipping their beers. The atmosphere is friendly, heated at times, but always with a sense of respect for each other. They're talking about their relationships with their wives. Some have been married for a long time, others only for a few years...all share their experiences, worries and joys. 

 

In comes a young lad, visibly inebriated and sits down at the table. Although uninvited, the older guys play along and don't make much of a fuss about it. 

The new guy, fuelled by the carelessness of youth and alcohol, starts to loudly give relationship advise to the others, despite the fact that he has never had a girlfriend in his life and his only sexual experience was with himself. Granted, he was quite the expert in that field in regards to frequency, but his expertise finished there.

Some of the older guys could see right through him and resented the young lad giving advise and boisterously spouting his opinion in matters he clearly had no idea about. 

 

In comes the barman who became aware of this nuisance, takes the lad by the scruff of his neck and firmly accompanies him to the door, leaving the lad wondering what just happened. 

He goes on protesting in front of the pub for some time before leaving, in search for another victim for his ramblings.

 

Peace returns to the table and the conversation carries on as it did before the rude interruption.

 

Isn't this a nice story? And such a happy ending! ????????????

 

That story made me think of the house of lords in the uk., LOL

 

[mauGR1]

Those who always complain about the state of the world forget that it could be better,  but it could be worse.

Life can be good or bad, but more often than not, it's our choices that determine the result.

Blaming a God while not believing in its existence is top, top nonsense, and a sign of a very confused mind imho.

[Sparktrader]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Nope, case is rested when science can disprove the existence of an intelligent design in the visible universe. 

Actually some top scientists, including Einstein, believe that an intelligent design running things is not only possible,  but quite likely. 

Saying "I don't see it, so it doesn't exist" is very poor science ????

Science doesnt have to prove ghosts dont exist cause no evidence says they do. Same same with god.

 

The onus of proof lies with the bible boys.

 

So far didley.

[Sparktrader]

You can't just make up a theory without evidence. God is just a theory. Nothing to support it.

 

It's like saying there's a planet Deo with aliens on it. . Ok so where's the proof? Same thing.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

You can't just make up a theory without evidence. God is just a theory. Nothing to support it.

 

It's like saying there's a planet Deo with aliens on it. . Ok so where's the proof? Same thing.

No, it's not.

The evidence is there for everyone who can see it. 

If you can't see it, that's fair enough, and no one else's business. 

In other words,  up to you ????

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

No, it's not.

The evidence is there for everyone who can see it. 

If you can't see it, that's fair enough, and no one else's business. 

In other words,  up to you ????

So it's imaginary evidence. Only exists in  the minds of the promoters. Bit like Loch Ness. A scam.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Sparktrader

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

So it's imaginary evidence. Only exists in  the minds of the promoters. Bit like Loch Ness. A scam.

Nope, it's not a scam, and I'm not interested in convincing anyone. 

Imagination,  btw, is one of the highest qualities of human mind, and nothing to be despised. 

Even logic or reason would be not that much without imagination. 

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Nope, it's not a scam, and I'm not interested in convincing anyone. 

Imagination,  btw, is one of the highest qualities of human mind, and nothing to be despised. 

Even logic or reason would be not that much without imagination. 

So it's a story like Harry Potter. Ok I get it.

 

 

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

top nonsense, and a sign of a very confused mind imho.

2 things at which a select few here are certainly expert! ????

[Fat is a type of crazy]

22 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

So, the next question would be "Why would anyone want to reach state 4 and 5?". Why not just be content with the life we're used to live at state 3 (the Waking Sleep)? 

 

In the same way we judge our dreams at state 2 to be less real compared to when we awaken from sleep, waking up to state 4 brings the realization that that state is more real than the preceding one. It isn't a coincidence that the root of the word Buddha means "to awaken"...awaken from the illusion that state 3 is all there is.
This is where we have a choice or free will; take the red pill and be willing to learn an unsettling or life-changing truth, or take the blue pill and remain content in the status quo, and well....ignorance.

 

The answer is quite simple in my opinion. Striving for state 4 and 5 is an evolutionary imperative. It's the mystery that will forever attract mankind like moths to a flame. It's what makes us complete. 

 

And while we're on the topic of evolution...I think it's safe to say that we, as a species, are not at the pinnacle of our evolution. What if the next big step for humankind is the development of a new sense of perception? This sense is already latent in each one of us, but what if, with every new generation born, this sense gets more acute and gradually enables us to tap into state 4 and 5 at will? What is now attained by a small group of people and usually through years of practice, may one day be as commonplace as the ability read.
Sure, it sounds like a science fiction story, but I kind of believe that it's not so far from the truth after all.
What do you think?

Interesting discussion but I am going to give what might sound like a lazy answer. For a time I was interested in Krisnamurti who describes the type of thing you talk about. 

A seemingly opposite but strong influence was The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand which, though a bit of a right wing economics bible and a bit nasty and repulsive in some ways, provided a counterpoint to my left leaning ways and it was about the thrill of being aware and reliant on yourself. 

For what it's worth  my instincts told me to  stop trying in relation to such issues. It's in a sense to admit  to being free and selfish, and to be careful but to believe in yourself such that being good is not contradictory to being selfish. The act of trying or striving is taking you away from yourself. If there is something out there I will discover it as much by living my normal life as by meditating. There could be nothing. 

 That doesn't contradict a lot of what you have said but I just note that from the point of the option of either just letting yourself be or in a sense striving to go up steps.

[Orinoco]

19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

2 things at which a select few here are certainly expert! ????

Only a three people table now . on this thread.

Get with the program, !!!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Skeptic7]

2 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Only a three people table now . on this thread.

As stated...2 out of 3 ain't bad! ????

[Sunmaster]

The fact that our resident skeptics and "scientists" keep whining about the same old issues and throwing temper tantrums when their silly demands are not met, is quite telling in my opinion. 

I posted several replies with scientifically verifiable facts (states of consciousness and related brain waves) that support the idea of a non-materialistic worldview, but those very same individuals who incessantly ask for proof, very conveniently ignore all that and prefer to flog the same old horse "Yeah, the bible bla bla...show me a picture of God bla bla". 
Or maybe it just went straight over their oh so rational minds? hmmm

Of course, it's much easier to make fun of Adam and Eve....it takes half a brain cell to do that. 
It's much more difficult to do some serious in-depth research about the topic you're trying to debate. Any first year wannabe scientist would certainly agree with me. 
Not so our dear friends here. No, they have already established that it's all bovine excrements using their well trained scientific minds and impeccable logic. Well, chapeau dear ones, your contributions and the replies to them certainly helped to raise the intellectual bar. Standing ovation. clap clap.  ???? 

[Skeptic7]

The fact that our resident believers and supernatural lot keep whining, deflecting and strawmanning when challenged and making silly claims for which they present zero supporting evidence is quite telling IMO. Blah blah blah...????

[Sunmaster]

Just now, Skeptic7 said:

The fact that our resident believers and supernatural lot keep whining, deflecting and strawmanning when challenged and making silly claims for which they present zero supporting evidence is quite telling IMO. Blah blah blah...????

Dear skeptic, it appears I have to ask you directly....Please tell me what you think about states of consciousness and brain waves (which are scientifically supported), and the evidence they bring to the non-materialistic worldview.
Care to tell us your opinion? Please use more than 2 sentences, if you can.
Thank you

[Orinoco]

Be careful skeptic, he will be on the report button double quick. LOL

 

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Orinoco said:

Be careful skeptic, he will be on the report button double quick. LOL

 

I'm sure nobody got reported who didn't deserve it. ????

[Sparktrader]

32 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The fact that our resident skeptics and "scientists" keep whining about the same old issues and throwing temper tantrums when their silly demands are not met, is quite telling in my opinion. 

I posted several replies with scientifically verifiable facts (states of consciousness and related brain waves) that support the idea of a non-materialistic worldview, but those very same individuals who incessantly ask for proof, very conveniently ignore all that and prefer to flog the same old horse "Yeah, the bible bla bla...show me a picture of God bla bla". 
Or maybe it just went straight over their oh so rational minds? hmmm

Of course, it's much easier to make fun of Adam and Eve....it takes half a brain cell to do that. 
It's much more difficult to do some serious in-depth research about the topic you're trying to debate. Any first year wannabe scientist would certainly agree with me. 
Not so our dear friends here. No, they have already established that it's all bovine excrements using their well trained scientific minds and impeccable logic. Well, chapeau dear ones, your contributions and the replies to them certainly helped to raise the intellectual bar. Standing ovation. clap clap.  ???? 

Credible proof not wishy washy stuff. You haven't presented any facts that 1 pass the pub test or 2 pass in a court of law.

 

Then you get upset and blame the other side.

 

Epic fail.

[Sparktrader]

23 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Dear skeptic, it appears I have to ask you directly....Please tell me what you think about states of consciousness and brain waves (which are scientifically supported), and the evidence they bring to the non-materialistic worldview.
Care to tell us your opinion? Please use more than 2 sentences, if you can.
Thank you

Even brain surgeons don't understand the brain that much.