Do you believe in God and why

[BigStar]

On 1/10/2024 at 7:16 PM, save the frogs said:

I did some more reading on the elohim.

 

Excerpts from "The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible"

 

https://www.logos.com/grow/who-are-elohim/

 

This is not to say that an elohim could not interact with the human world. The Bible makes it clear that divine beings can (and did) assume physical human form, and even corporeal flesh, for interaction with people, but that is not their normal estate.

 

Spiritual beings are “spirits” (1 Kgs. 22:19–22; John 4:24; Heb. 1:14; Rev. 1:4). In like manner, humans can be transported to the divine realm (e.g., Isa. 6), but that is not our normal plane of existence. 

 

 

 

What you need is to read the extremely well-researched, scholarly

 

Jesus from Outer Space: What the Earliest Christians Really Believed about Christ

 

Gives a great account of how religions started up in the ancient world, in general.

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

19 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Gives a great account of how religions started up in the ancient world, in general.

 

How?

[BigStar]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

How?

 

By writing, in his book. Probably used Microsoft Word originally, but I dunno.

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

By writing, in his book. Probably used Microsoft Word originally, but I dunno.

Funny. Something I would have said. 55

So, you read the book? Can you give us a bit more on how religions started out?

 

[BigStar]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

Funny. Something I would have said. 55

So, you read the book? Can you give us a bit more on how religions started out?

 

 

I can't be bothered and am not going to argue any points with the uninformed on the forum. However, you can check the reviews and probably read an excerpt on Amazon, maybe also in Google books/reads. There's quite a lot in the book, it's pretty dense, though not as dense as his other book from which this derives. Better read it and get the whole context. Highly recommended.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, BigStar said:

I can't be bothered and am not going to argue any points with the uninformed on the forum.

Fair enough. I hope you don't mean me by "the uninformed on the forum" though. 

[Baht Simpson]

2,000 years of study and 18,395 posts on this thread and we still have no evidence of a creator God. Check out Karl Barth. He wrote 6 million words on the subject. 

 

"2,000 years and he ain't shown yet.

We've kept his seat warm and the table's set.

The second sitting for the Last Supper."

- 10cc

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

2,000 years of study and 18,395 posts on this thread and we still have no evidence of a creator God

What kind of evidence would set your heart at peace?

[BigStar]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Fair enough. I hope you don't mean me by "the uninformed on the forum" though. 

 

Not at all. If you are informed, then this book should be the more valuable, as you can appreciate that he does know what he's talking about. He makes a point of answering objections or potential counterarguments as he goes along, and explains where he differs from other scholars' positions.

[Baht Simpson]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

What kind of evidence would set your heart at peace?

My heart is at peace. But anything would do to start. What provable evidence do you have, or should I just accept Pascal's Wager?

[Baht Simpson]

"If there's a God, John, He's cruel.  He is there only to torture us; it amuses Him.  There's nothing new about that.  You know that, don't you?  Men have been finding that to be true for thousands of years but they can't bear to admit it.  They cheat themselves deliberately." 

 

" We are like these weeds, the gulls there.  We are born like them, millions of us, and are lost and forgotten as quickly.  We suffer, they suffer.  We torture ourselves and one another and the sea advances and retreats not caring.  Nothing cares." - Hugh Walpole (John Cornelius)

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Baht Simpson said:

My heart is at peace. But anything would do to start. What provable evidence do you have, or should I just accept Pascal's Wager?

This is a very large topic and I don't think that it's possible to condense it into a short post.

The major problem with evidence is that those who ask for it, expect "scientific evidence" and accept only that as the only real evidence. This they will never get, no matter how long or hard they demand it.
So, should they just believe what they are told about "God"? Of course not!
How then can they find proof that there is indeed something more to life than what you can explore through science?

For one, they have to be openminded enough to consider that there are other ways of verification. 
Use the right tool for the right job: science for the material, objective world; introspection, meditation for the inner, subjective world. There's no other way, I'm afraid.

Now, if you are curious enough and willing to take those steps, you will be all set to get that evidence yourself, without ever having to read, listen or believe anything someone else wrote or told you about your inner experience. You will be the scientist and you alone will verify your findings.

"God" is not something or someone outside of you. It is your innate nature. It is closer to you than your own breath is to you.

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

"If there's a God, John, He's cruel.  He is there only to torture us; it amuses Him.  There's nothing new about that.  You know that, don't you?  Men have been finding that to be true for thousands of years but they can't bear to admit it.  They cheat themselves deliberately." 

 

" We are like these weeds, the gulls there.  We are born like them, millions of us, and are lost and forgotten as quickly.  We suffer, they suffer.  We torture ourselves and one another and the sea advances and retreats not caring.  Nothing cares." - Hugh Walpole (John Cornelius)

Sooooooo, the creator of the universe in which we live, with all it's billions, nay trillions of stars and worlds, and perhaps a few more alternate universes is taking time out to torture you. Is that your position?

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

[thaibeachlovers]

52 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

2,000 years of study and 18,395 posts on this thread and we still have no evidence of a creator God. Check out Karl Barth. He wrote 6 million words on the subject. 

 

"2,000 years and he ain't shown yet.

We've kept his seat warm and the table's set.

The second sitting for the Last Supper."

- 10cc

LOL. There is plenty of evidence if one only looks beyond oneself.

Unfortunately, some on here will only accept God exists if a hand comes out of the screen and slaps the viewer a few times while shouting "Do you believe now?"

[prakhonchai nick]

Some years ago, I was having a meal with my daughter and her friend in a restaurant. We sat at a table for 4. After a while the friend suddenly started talking about God, and knowing my views, asked what would make me believe. I answered "if he came and sat in this empty chair and joined us for our meal"  Her response was how would I know it was God.  My answer " I'd ask to see his passport!"

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:58 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you were wasting your time. IMO they come on here to scorn the ones that believe. The post is just a vehicle for scorn. Without the believers to rail against they have no reason to post, IMO.

I may be wrong though, and that's OK. I often am, according to certain posters on this forum.

 

Seems I may have been right after all.

[Baht Simpson]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooooo, the creator of the universe in which we live, with all it's billions, nay trillions of stars and worlds, and perhaps a few more alternate universes is taking time out to torture you. Is that your position?

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

He literally tortures, murders and gets humans to torture, murder and enslave others in that book you're so fond of. If you believe that your God is all-powerful then you must believe he is resonsible for suffering instead of it being the nature of things. 

[Baht Simpson]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The post is just a vehicle for scorn.

 

Seems I may have been right after all.

Also you:

 

"Unfortunately, some on here will only accept God exists if a hand comes out of the screen and slaps the viewer a few times while shouting "Do you believe now?"

 

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.... eh.

[Baht Simpson]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. There is plenty of evidence if one only looks beyond oneself.

 

Sunmaster says to look within and you say to look without. So which is it? You are contradicting each other to prove the same point.

 

If you do have evidence of a Christian creator God you have the greatest discovery in the history of mankind, something that man has searched for for thousands of years, so please share.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems I may have been right after all.

Yep. Not worth replying to. 

[Baht Simpson]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Use the right tool for the right job: science for the material, objective world; introspection, meditation for the inner, subjective world. There's no other way, I'm afraid.

Now, if you are curious enough and willing to take those steps, you will be all set to get that evidence yourself, without ever having to read, listen or believe anything someone else wrote or told you about your inner experience. You will be the scientist and you alone will verify your findings.

"God" is not something or someone outside of you. It is your innate nature. It is closer to you than your own breath is to you.

But everything that you say your God is responsible for is the objective world, whether it be life, light, weather, food etc. and is understandable through science as far as we can yet explain it. 

 

Introspection does not naturally lead you to a Christian God. Buddhism is the greatest user of meditation and promoter of inner awareness yet famously has no creator god.

[Baht Simpson]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yep. Not worth replying to. 

Not sure if you're referencing me or someone else.

 

For avoidance of doubt:

 

Do I believe in a Creator God? No, I'm an athiest?

Do I respect all your beliefs? No, because many of them are preposterous.

Do I believe you have the right to hold those beliefs? Of course

Do I believe you should proselytize? No. 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

Not sure if you're referencing me or someone else.

 

For avoidance of doubt:

 

Do I believe in a Creator God? No, I'm an athiest?

Do I respect all your beliefs? No, because many of them are preposterous.

Do I believe you have the right to hold those beliefs? Of course

Do I believe you should proselytize? No. 

Of course I'm referring to you and those like you. Like BigStar, who comes to drop a link to a book but can't be bothered to elaborate his point. 

 

You come here, guns blazing, talking about "your God this, your God that", assuming that everyone here subscribes to the idea of a Christian God. None of us do. None of us are religious in the sense you talk about. 

So where does that leave us?

 

Perhaps read some of the previous pages to get an idea, but like many other people with your attitude you will say "I don't have time for this nonsense" and will retreat with a feeling of false superiority. Seen it all before. 

Hence my comment.

Edited January 12 by Sunmaster

[Baht Simpson]

39 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course I'm referring to you and those like you. Like BigStar, who comes to drop a link to a book but can't be bothered to elaborate his point. 

 

You come here, guns blazing, talking about "your God this, your God that", assuming that everyone here subscribes to the idea of a Christian God. None of us do. None of us are religious in the sense you talk about. 

So where does that leave us?

 

Perhaps read some of the previous pages to get an idea, but like many other people with your attitude you will say "I don't have time for this nonsense" and will retreat with a feeling of false superiority. Seen it all before. 

Hence my comment.

No, I'm going to sincerely apologize for misreading you. You're correct I have come late to this thread and there is no way I could wade through 18,000 posts to see who said what. I incorrectly assumed that because you were talking about finding an Inner God, using the capital G like Thaibeachlover that you were coming at it from a Christan perspective. An honest mistake but nothing in your reply led me to think otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

21 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

No, I'm going to sincerely apologize for misreading you. You're correct I have come late to this thread and there is no way I could wade through 18,000 posts to see who said what. I incorrectly assumed that because you were talking about finding an Inner God, using the capital G like Thaibeachlover that you were coming at it from a Christan perspective. An honest mistake but nothing in your reply led me to think otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

 

All good.

No need to start from the beginning, unless you are in prison and have nothing better to do.

If the topic interests you and you come at it with an open mind, then you are welcome to contribute of course. We don't have to be of the same opinion, that would be boring. But a respectful attitude goes a long way.

🖖

[save the frogs]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

What you need is to read the extremely well-researched, scholarly

 

Jesus from Outer Space: What the Earliest Christians Really Believed about Christ

 

Gives a great account of how religions started up in the ancient world, in general.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's right up my alley.

I'll check it out.

Thanks.

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Some years ago, I was having a meal with my daughter and her friend in a restaurant. We sat at a table for 4. After a while the friend suddenly started talking about God, and knowing my views, asked what would make me believe. I answered "if he came and sat in this empty chair and joined us for our meal"  Her response was how would I know it was God.  My answer " I'd ask to see his passport!"

 

[Sunmaster]

4 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

Sunmaster says to look within and you say to look without. So which is it? You are contradicting each other to prove the same point.

"God" as I see it, is All There Is, within and with-out, so in that sense there is no contradiction. 

TBL has his own view of course, but that's no problem. Different approaches to the same thing.

My approach is based on direct experience through the help of meditation and self-inquiry. Swami Sarvapriyananda, a monk I deeply respect, gave this analogy: spiritual knowledge without direct experience is like a donkey carrying a load of sugar on its back. It has the precious load so close to it, but never gets to taste its sweetness. 

[save the frogs]

Tesla Biohealers (NOT approved by the FDA ... don't try this at home, kids)

 

"Life force energy is the body's ability of innate intelligence to repair itself"

 

 

[Sunmaster]

This one is for you @thaibeachlovers