Do you believe in God and why

[CMNightRider 3,769]

21 hours ago, Tagged said:

So you are an extremist? Littely word for word, and no what so ever any self reflection on the bible? 

 

I know we have been trough every aspect of the bible, as a belief system and political tool, but still surprised that some do not understand the meaning of using an prophet as a political tool? That even the bible should not be littely taken, but also use som visdom as well when reading and understanding. 

 

You sir contribute to alot of misury the bible has forsaken among the humanity for all the years that it have been used as a political tool, and not as a religious experience. I call that abuse. 

An "extremist," I think not.  The Bible is the word of God, so why shouldn't I believe every word it says.    

[jvs 5,977]

8 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

An "extremist," I think not.  The Bible is the word of God, so why shouldn't I believe every word it says.  

I have a brother who seems to be like you,very "religious" and believes everything in the bible.

The things he does and says i consider to be extremists and in that way he is dangerous.

All but one person in my family does not speak to him anymore.

I consider him a total idiot!

[jvs 5,977]

22 hours ago, Tagged said:

So you are an extremist? Littely word for word, and no what so ever any self reflection on the bible? 

I believe if Nightrider was born into another religion he would whistle a different tune.

That is just one wrong aspect of religion,the arrogance and entitlement ,'my religion/god is better then yours."

Edited January 9 by jvs

[Tagged 2,678]

16 minutes ago, jvs said:

I believe if Nightrider was born into another religion he would whistle a different tune.

That is just one wrong aspect of religion,the arrogance and entitlement ,'my religion/god is better then yours."

Im just tired of the total respect for others belief and respect for other peoples feelings. Always an underlaying threat when they debate, and also almost consequent post quotes from the bible as proof without any reflections at all. 

 

Yes I can be joking, teasing and be an ass to debate with, but never ever in a serious way, or serving "facts" with a camuflage threat, because the bible give you exactly that. The base of bible is love an hate and a perfect dosage of threat if you do not as I say or want. 

[Sunmaster 1,524]

2 hours ago, Tagged said:

Im just tired of the total respect for others belief and respect for other peoples feelings. Always an underlaying threat when they debate, and also almost consequent post quotes from the bible as proof without any reflections at all. 

 

Yes I can be joking, teasing and be an ass to debate with, but never ever in a serious way, or serving "facts" with a camuflage threat, because the bible give you exactly that. The base of bible is love an hate and a perfect dosage of threat if you do not as I say or want. 

I think you mean "disrespect". That one is prevalent in a lot of posters here, believers and not.

[Sunmaster 1,524]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I think you mean "disrespect". That one is prevalent in a lot of posters here, believers and not.

Actually, a lot more in non-believers than in believers...

[Tagged 2,678]

23 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Actually, a lot more in non-believers than in believers...

Yes, disrespect, of course

 

but for pushing the envelope, you needto also bush the debate a bit further, and it can be a great way to make others think twice? Dont you think so?

 

what I do not like to see is religion used as psykhological weapon. 

[Sunmaster 1,524]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:01 PM, Ladidaa said:

 

The good old Plato was right, ey? 2000 years and still the same story...

 

The ‘Allegory Of The Cave’ is a theory put forward by Plato, concerning human perception. Plato claimed that knowledge gained through the senses is no more than opinion and that, in order to have real knowledge, we must gain it through philosophical reasoning.

 

‘The Allegory of the Cave’ by Plato

 In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes between people who mistake sensory knowledge for the truth and people who really do see the truth. It goes like this:

 

 The Cave

• Imagine a cave, in which there are three prisoners. The prisoners are tied to some rocks, their arms and legs are bound and their head is tied so that they cannot look at anything but the stonewall in front of them.
• These prisoners have been here since birth and have never seen outside of the cave.
• Behind the prisoners is a fire, and between them is a raised walkway.
• People outside the cave walk along this walkway carrying things on their head including; animals, plants, wood and stone.

 The Shadows

• So, imagine that you are one of the prisoners. You cannot look at anything behind or to the side of you – you must look at the wall in front of you.
• When people walk along the walkway, you can see shadows of the objects they are carrying cast on to the wall.
•  If you had never seen the real objects ever before, you would believe that the shadows of objects were ‘real.

The Game

• Plato suggests that the prisoners would begin a ‘game’ of guessing which shadow would appear next.
• If one of the prisoners were to correctly guess, the others would praise him as clever and say that he were a master of nature.

 The Escape

• One of the prisoners then escapes from their bindings and leaves the cave.
• He is shocked at the world he discovers outside the cave and does not believe it can be real.
• As he becomes used to his new surroundings, he realizes that his former view of reality was wrong.
• He begins to understand his new world, and sees that the Sun is the source of life and goes on an intellectual journey where he discovers beauty and meaning
• He see’s that his former life, and the guessing game they played is useless.

 The Return

The returning prisoner, whose eyes have become accustomed to the sunlight, would be blind when he re-enters the cave, just as he was when he was first exposed to the sun. The prisoners, according to Plato, would infer from the returning man's blindness that the journey out of the cave had harmed him and that they should not undertake a similar journey. Plato concludes that the prisoners, if they were able, would therefore reach out and kill anyone who attempted to drag them out of the cave.

 

 

Sounds familiar, right?  

I've been pondering on this one a lot since you've posted it, and I'm quite amazed how well it fits in the whole discussion here. 

Starting with what Vincent said about being "blinded by the light"...just like what happens in Plato's story. Or the fact that he called me an "explorer" not just a "believer"....the same way the prisoner in the cave starts to look elsewhere and goes to explore the outside, comes back (temporarily) blinded to tell the others what he found. What he found is not a matter of belief anymore, it's something that has become more real than anything he ever experienced in the cave.

 

And the way Plato describes the return of the explorer...
Of course, those still in the cave rebel with all their strength to the good news. Some deride him, some question his sanity, some  accuse him of wanting to be "special" and "haughty". But he knows that this is not the case. If they could just see what he saw, they too would become "special" and realize that that specialness is in reality our normal state of being, so not special at all.
If they could just retrace the steps he took to get out, they too could see the magnificent world he's describing. But no, those shadows in the cave are the only thing they can see and consider real. He is unable to convince them and he can't force them to follow the instructions. The cavemen, sorry...the prisoners in the cave are prisoners of their own doing. But one day, sooner or later, they too will realize that they've always been free to leave the cave. They just have to make the conscious decision to take the first step. 

Thanks Ladidaa and Plato. 

[Sunmaster 1,524]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Yes, disrespect, of course

 

but for pushing the envelope, you needto also bush the debate a bit further, and it can be a great way to make others think twice? Dont you think so?

 

what I do not like to see is religion used as psykhological weapon. 

Yes, I guess that's true. 
I remember when my father tried to teach me something and my first reaction was "Pffff...You don't know what you're talking about", "I know better", "Don't tell me what to do"...
Years later though, I came up to the same situation and my father's teaching was still there in my head. This time though I realized he was right all along and it was me who couldn't see the full picture before. He planted the seed so to speak, and it blossomed when the time was right for it.
I think that's a common experience for everybody.

As for religion...I agree 100% with you. I've argued with those ideas last year, so (for me) no need to start again.

[CMNightRider 3,769]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

I have a brother who seems to be like you,very "religious" and believes everything in the bible.

The things he does and says i consider to be extremists and in that way he is dangerous.

All but one person in my family does not speak to him anymore.

I consider him a total idiot!

Chances are he feels the same about you.  Thanks for sharing.  

[Tagged 2,678]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

As for religion...I agree 100% with you. I've argued with those ideas last year, so (for me) no need to start again.

Everything have an start and an end, for the restart a new cycle again  
 

Just have to say, Im not drunk when I am writing, even it looks like it. Just lazy spell checking and texting on a phone. 

[jvs 5,977]

6 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Chances are he feels the same about you.  Thanks for sharing.  

No he does not,he hopes i am still stupid enough to accept all of that shxt!

[CMNightRider 3,769]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

No he does not,he hopes i am still stupid enough to accept all of that shxt!

After reading so many of your intelligent and well written posts, I doubt if anyone thinks you are stupid

[jvs 5,977]

12 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

After reading so many of your intelligent and well written posts, I doubt if anyone thinks you are stupid

Ok, i will let you win,after all that is the christian thing to do!

You are the smartest,have the biggest one and are backed up by fairy tales,i surrender.

[CMNightRider 3,769]

8 hours ago, jvs said:

Ok, i will let you win,after all that is the christian thing to do!

You are the smartest,have the biggest one and are backed up by fairy tales,i surrender.

Don't surrender to me, surrender to Jesus.