Brexit cannot define us, says UK PM's deputy as ratings dip

[Loiner]

A worthwhile argument would not require the juvenile name calling.

555 there’s a new idea from a Remainer.

[Loiner]

Don't care. The Tories own this one and no amount of spinning alters the fact.

What about the facts of Liebour’s deception? Not even the teenzy weenzyest bit responsible?

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

What about the facts of Liebour’s deception? Not even the teenzy weenzyest bit responsible?

Nope. All down to the CON party...

[baboon]

13 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Are the Liebour MPs not responsible because they all voted for motions to actually Leave, as promised in their manifesto too?

No.

[SheungWan]

Hard Brexiteers have their stupid equivalents on the Remain Side as well. Making out that Brexit is solely a Tory issue has to rank right up there.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers have their stupid equivalents on the Remain Side as well. Making out that Brexit is solely a Tory issue has to rank right up there.

Whichever side one is on is irrelevant. Brexit defines the Tories whether they like it or not and that, my good man, is what this thread is about, not the rights of wrongs of leaving the EU or whatever the other lot are up to.

[Loiner]

Whichever side one is on is irrelevant. Brexit defines the Tories whether they like it or not and that, my good man, is what this thread is about, not the rights of wrongs of leaving the EU or whatever the other lot are up to.

Bexit cannot and does not define the Tory party which is so obviously split on the issue.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

And what was the little issue that led to the Labour Party MPs calling and securing a vote of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Please do remind us.

Utterly irrelevant- the point is the Tories own this absolute sham lock, stock, and barrel.

[wilcopops]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

What about the facts of Liebour’s deception? Not even the teenzy weenzyest bit responsible?

Corbyn is a BRexiteer, but a large part of his party isn't - he's been the worst opposition leader in history.

 

But let's not forget that it was that clown Cameron's misjudgment that started all this

[wilcopops]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers have their stupid equivalents on the Remain Side as well. Making out that Brexit is solely a Tory issue has to rank right up there.

how can you be a "hard remainer"?

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

What about the facts of Liebour’s deception? Not even the teenzy weenzyest bit responsible?

There are two factors here, when has any political party stuck exactly to their manifesto? Answer not in my lifetime, a party has to be ready to respond to changing circumstances (Events dear boy, as I believe Macmillan put it). The LP manifesto said that they would respect the result of the referendum, that wasn't a promise to follow any looney idea that the Tory party came up with, like May's deal for example which was/is widely disliked. They had already said that they would reject any deal that didn't respect workers rights. 

[malagateddy]

Many people do not wish to follow a dream built on economic quicksand

Where you got that nonsence from ? ?At least for Netherlands... just a 18% willing to commit economical suicide… propbqly the same as many Brits... do not have an idea what that means as too lazy and too stupid to read about all advantages of the EU. ...
 

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[malagateddy]

I totally agree..just kick us out..but wait..you lot need our taxpayers money

As usual, Brits do not have the slightest idea about how the EU works, and Brexiteers... believe Boris The Liar above all.
See https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies_en
European parliament, inclusive 75 elected British members.
Role: Directly-elected EU body with legislative, supervisory, and budgetary responsibilities
Members: 751 MEPs (Members of the European Parliament)
President: Antonio Tajani
European Council
 
Members: Heads of state or government of EU countries, European Commission President, High Representative for Foreign Affairs & Security Policy. For the U.K.: May.President: Donald Tusk, elected by the heads of state of the EU members.
The Council of the European Union
 
Role: Voice of EU member governments, adopting EU laws and coordinating EU policies
Members: Government ministers from each EU country, according to the policy area to be discussed
President: Each EU country holds the presidency on a 6-month rotating basis
European Commission
Role: Promotes the general interest of the EU by proposing and enforcing legislation as well as by implementing policies and the EU budget
Members: A team or 'College' of Commissioners, 1 from each EU country. For the U.K.: Julian King, nominated by David Cameron to succeed Jonathan Hill as the British European Commissioner
President: Jean-Claude Juncker
 
 
Civil servants are appointed by the EU, for instance Barrier, because of skills and knowledge. The U.K. negotiator was appointed because of ? ? see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_negotiations
 
Of course, the British system, for the House of Commons of England, coming out of the 14th century, is far and far more democratic.[emoji23].  The Reform Act 1832 reduced the number of parliamentary boroughs in England and Wales. The Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 equalised the population of constituencies. Nothing really evaluated since then.
As 'the winner takes it all" per constituency, you must be crazy NOT to vote for the two main parties, unless a regional effect can be harvested. 
Lib Dem, with  2,371,910  votes = 7,4% of all, a mare 12 seats are won, while DUP with 292,316 votes = 0,9% got 10 seats. This is democracy ?
The House of Lords... all appointed: Life peers (about 680 of Members are appointed for their lifetime, Archbishops and bishops ( 26), Elected hereditary Members (15 officeholders elected by the House; 75 party and Crossbench Members (elected by their own party or group); and two who hold royal appointments ).
So, like the French Assemblée before the French Revolution, 1789. Nothing improved since then.
Happily soon we will get rid of the British, who were frustrating a further Union since Heath, and sabotaged under Thatcher. Charles de Gaulle was right. Pity two chances are already missed.

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[malagateddy]

Utterly irrelevant- the point is the Tories own this absolute sham lock, stock, and barrel.

R u serious???

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[baboon]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Bexit cannot and does not define the Tory party which is so obviously split on the issue.

Yes it does. Not Corbyn, Cable or anyone else. No amount of wishful thinking or desperate whataboutery changes the fact.

[Baerboxer]

13 hours ago, Loiner said:

Well he would say that wouldn't he. He's a Remainer who has been working against a real Brexit. The party has far too many of those for it to be defined as the Brexit party, which is why they have got themselves into the mess. Of course they were assisted into the mess by the Liebour Remainers and the other Remainers in Parliament overall.

The trouble with the Conservative Party is that it is not conservative enough and hasn't been for sometime. There's only a few good men in the ERG who are saving CON from imploding, but if it does that's OK too.

 

ERG - "Good men" - 555555555555!

[Baerboxer]

38 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

I totally agree..just kick us out..but wait..you lot need our taxpayers money

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You prove his first sentence. The ignorance and lack of willingness to learn the reality from Brexiteers is staggering. Not only on the EU but also on British parliamentary process.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

how can you be a "hard remainer"?

Certainly not by pretending that it is nothing to do with Labour and turning it into priority for Party tribal affiliations that don't match up. Easy but shallow.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

R u serious???

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Yes.

 

I guess if you think Labour has been obstructive to Brexit by not voting through the May Deal, then I guess to that end they have been equally at fault.  And the same reasoning would follow if you believe the result gave a mandate for a No Deal Brexit.  But I think most reasonable people would not take that view.

 

 

[Scott]

A post without a link to a source and violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

 

[damascase]

10 hours ago, malagateddy said:

I totally agree..just kick us out..but wait..you lot need our taxpayers money

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One would have to be utterly stupid to believe what you are spreading here. Maliciousteddy would be a more apropriate name for you to use..

[vogie]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Yes.

 

I guess if you think Labour has been obstructive to Brexit by not voting through the May Deal, then I guess to that end they have been equally at fault.  And the same reasoning would follow if you believe the result gave a mandate for a No Deal Brexit.  But I think most reasonable people would not take that view.

 

 

I think Labour made it quite clear from the beginning that they would not vote for any deal, no matter how benificial it was to the country, Labours no red lines alternative tantamounts to remaining in the EU and it has taken Labour 3 years to come clean about their mandate for leaving the EU, and that is still on the table.

As for being an opposition party supposedly keeping the government to account, they have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Any opposition party that cannot capitalise on the shambles of the government we unfortunately have at the moment deserves all the criticism and contempt they deserve.

Technically a 'no deal brexit' is still on the table, but the EU knows our MPs have not got the bottle to use it, therefore we have lost the only bargaining chip we had left, the EU can offer us anything they like now.

And I really cannot understand why the remainers dislike this government so much, are they not giving you the outcome you all so desire because they are certainly not giving the leavers what they want.

[Jip99]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think Labour made it quite clear from the beginning that they would not vote for any deal, no matter how benificial it was to the country, Labours no red lines alternative tantamounts to remaining in the EU and it has taken Labour 3 years to come clean about their mandate for leaving the EU, and that is still on the table.

As for being an opposition party supposedly keeping the government to account, they have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Any opposition party that cannot capitalise on the shambles of the government we unfortunately have at the moment deserves all the criticism and contempt they deserve.

Technically a 'no deal brexit' is still on the table, but the EU knows our MPs have not got the bottle to use it, therefore we have lost the only bargaining chip we had left, the EU can offer us anything they like now.

And I really cannot understand why the remainers dislike this government so much, are they not giving you the outcome you all so desire because they are certainly not giving the leavers what they want.

 

 

Absolutely correct. Labour's inability to take advantage of the shambles, that is this Conservative government, simply highlights their own inabilities and shortcomings. A Tony Blair would have seized the opportunity like a rat down a drainpipe. In the absence of a successful no confidence vote, Labour will remain in opposition for another 3 years - by which time the Tory may have repaired itself.

[malagateddy]

 
 
Absolutely correct. Labour's inability to take advantage of the shambles, that is this Conservative government, simply highlights their own inabilities and shortcomings. A Tony Blair would have seized the opportunity like a rat down a drainpipe. In the absence of a successful no confidence vote, Labour will remain in opposition for another 3 years - by which time the Tory may have repaired itself.

As long as jezza( bel ) is the labour leader..they will never form a Govt.
Also..diane abbot as home secy. let that sink in!!

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[stephenterry]

20 hours ago, jinners said:

Agreed, if Brexit has done one thing it has shown how totally useless the current crop of MP's and ministers are. In general doing their utmost to frustrate the will of the people. Suicide by the ballot box.

They're doing what's best for Britain - and even had Remain won, the same. I find it intensely annoying that 27% of the total population think they can override the most important scenario; that is to ensure Britain prospers, not fall down the toilet. 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

They're doing what's best for Britain - and even had Remain won, the same. I find it intensely annoying that 27% of the total population think they can override the most important scenario; that is to ensure Britain prospers, not fall down the toilet. 

Ah yes I remember that all important speech, "the government will implement what you decide" as long as you vote remain.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been reported and removed.  

[stephenterry]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ah yes I remember that all important speech, "the government will implement what you decide" as long as you vote remain.

I would still have the same view had remain won. It's what's best for Britain that is the most important factor - and I would have hoped that - if remaining - the government would act to ensure that by negotiating from within the EU. However, on current form, they would probably fall at the first hurdle.

 

It's about 'what's best for Britain' that overrides any other scenario. If a Brexit deal can demonstrate that, all well and good, but I still haven't seen ANY EVIDENCE that it would benefit Britain.  

 

All I get on here is we must leave - and then what? Expect the government to actually do something beneficial for the population.   Big joke.

 

[stephenterry]

On my mantra of 'what's best for Britain', and whenever we eventually leave or remain, I would expect the government - either Con or Lab - to actually DO something to ensure that the main aim materialises - that is to see the UK prosper.

 

However, I cannot see that happening, possibly because the UK is NOT a wholly democratic union. The awarding of parliamentary seats should be based on proportional representation, and not as it is now. That the DUP can earn 10 seats is a ludicrous skewing of a minority.

 

I also cannot see that happening because there is NO plan in place to make it happen. At the moment it's all about getting May's deal over the line - and does that ensure prosperity or catastrophe? Or is it just to 'respect' - a ridiculous concept  - the referendum result with the support of 27% of the eligible voting population, instead of what's best for Britain?

 

As any father like myself would want, is to see their children and grandchildren prosper, have freedom of movement,  great health facilities, and not to be stuck with a government that is worse than big brother, only interested in taxing them to death to pay off the Brexit bill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I would still have the same view had remain won. It's what's best for Britain that is the most important factor - and I would have hoped that - if remaining - the government would act to ensure that by negotiating from within the EU. However, on current form, they would probably fall at the first hurdle.

 

It's about 'what's best for Britain' that overrides any other scenario. If a Brexit deal can demonstrate that, all well and good, but I still haven't seen ANY EVIDENCE that it would benefit Britain.  

 

All I get on here is we must leave - and then what? Expect the government to actually do something beneficial for the population.   Big joke.

 

It could be argued that remain has won, as Nick Berry sang 'every loser wins' which is a sad day for democracy, oh I know I'll get the "democracy didn't end in June 2016" blah di blah, but by trying to overturn democracy will split the country more than Brexit could ever have done.

Again trying to negotiate from the inside of the EU has been tried, they are so arrogant, they won't listen, but it has been covered many times on here.

Your interpretation is only that 'your interpretation' I'm sure you have listened to these so called experts, but so have we all, and never the twain shall meet, they all come out with differring opinions, In the end we have all got different reasons for wanting to leave the EU, which again we have covered substantially in the last three years.

We need a government that actually wants to leave the EU and there isn't one in parliament at the moment.