EU's Tusk says "dream" of Brexit U-turn not dead

[welovesundaysatspace]

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Germany gets most of it's gas supply from Russia, and the recently built €9.5bn Nord Stream 2 pipeline will result in a further increase. This is from Reuters: 

 

"The EU bloc is divided in its support for the project. Eastern European, Nordic and Baltic Sea countries view the 1,225 km (760 mile) pipeline as holding the EU hostage to Moscow, while those in northern Europe, especially Germany, prioritizes the economic benefits."

How does that answer my question or supports the OP’s claim?

[CG1 Blue]

50 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How does that answer my question or supports the OP’s claim?

It's fair to say Merkel is reluctant to face up to (and talk honestly about) the political ramifications of the pipeline expansion. I assume that's what the OP meant.  

[bomber]

9 hours ago, Tilacme said:

Yeah, project fear never far away with these idiots, we have a plan, its called WTO rules and UK will do very nicely thank you.

sorry but the govt has had more than enough experts tell them that WTO would be a disaster,a couple of highly paid/bribed guest speakers (just as much likely to be remainers) with a few hundred youths screaming WTO in the audience and with WTO placards you see on-line hasnt fooled them,they have listened and the overwhelming majority do NOT want WTO,please no replies about the experts not predicting the 2008 crisis.

[bomber]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

I find it amazing that after 40 odd years people cannot see where the EU is heading.

 

It started as a trading block of a few countries and has slowly morphed into a German led political monster now with aspirations towards becoming  a Military Empire - seriously ????

40 years ago the UK was in tatters,once Labour were removed and maggie got to work its done very well and probably narrowed the gap in living standards on the wealthier germans,french,dutch etc,no way would that of happened if we had not joined.the nissans/honda's/toyota's/airbus jobs would never of came to these shores

[bomber]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find it amazing that after 3 years Brexiteers can’t see where Brexit is heading.

 

Fail to plan, plan to fail.

but farage has started planning 6 years to late,rolf harris is going to show him how to sketch 

[bomber]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Germany gets most of it's gas supply from Russia, and the recently built €9.5bn Nord Stream 2 pipeline will result in a further increase. This is from Reuters: 

 

"The EU bloc is divided in its support for the project. Eastern European, Nordic and Baltic Sea countries view the 1,225 km (760 mile) pipeline as holding the EU hostage to Moscow, while those in northern Europe, especially Germany, prioritizes the economic benefits."

europe has no option but to take russia's gas,the mighty uk also,are brexiteers now wanting to dend the UK back to the ice age,they sure are a paranoid bunch,portugal wont be effected,yippeee ???? 

[smedly]

4 hours ago, bomber said:

40 years ago the UK was in tatters,once Labour were removed and maggie got to work its done very well and probably narrowed the gap in living standards on the wealthier germans,french,dutch etc,no way would that of happened if we had not joined.the nissans/honda's/toyota's/airbus jobs would never of came to these shores

no country 40-60 years ago was doing well, we had in the UK industry that was funded by 35% tax and no incentive to improve - companies employed people and could care less about profit because the government made up the shortfall, I remember sitting in a pub with some friends and they were on double time - how does that work - well one guy goes in and clocks all the cards - the company couldn't care less because the government payed for it - go figure

 

Then we had a pile of greedy well paid dockers - power workers - miners - shipyards etc that brought the country to its knees through prolonged strikes - I remember the powercuts and the shortages and the transport strikes - all lead by power hungry people - Thatcher put an end to it, no longer would tax payers bail out anyone or any industry

 

Either  make a profit or (deleted) off

 

a second industrial revolution that was hard on some to adjust but needed to happen

 

we survived and thrived

[smedly]

yes it was tough on miners who did a very difficult job - but at the end of the day they priced themselves out of the market - shipbuilding went pretty much the same way, people back then were making good money but some ass lead them to believe they could hold the whole country to ransom - what happened - they shot themselves in the foot - Thatcher happened, some of the then best paid in the county wanted more and ended up with nothing - sorry but that is the hard truth

[bartender100]

May was a complete remainer, she must thanked the heavens when she got the job of keeping us in.

[malagateddy]

Germany gets most of it's gas supply from Russia, and the recently built €9.5bn Nord Stream 2 pipeline will result in a further increase. This is from Reuters: 
 
"The EU bloc is divided in its support for the project. Eastern European, Nordic and Baltic Sea countries view the 1,225 km (760 mile) pipeline as holding the EU hostage to Moscow, while those in northern Europe, especially Germany, prioritizes the economic benefits."

CG1 BLUE

Thank You very much for explaining things so accurately. Cheers

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JAG]

12 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Of course you can, especially when that referendum was a non-binding opinion poll affected by wide spread desinformation and manipulation which, had it been in fact a binding vote, would have led to “the election commission” declaring it void.

 

I would assume any simpleton gets that, but even if you have a different opinion, let’s just do what people do when they cannot agree: stick to the laws.

Indeed, let's stick to the laws.

 

The relevant laws in this case are those created by The European Union (Withdrawal) Act of 2018. This act, was passed by a thumping majority (some 500) MPs. Those MPs had been sent to parliament by a General Election in which both the party which formed the government and the main opposition stood on manifestos declaring that the UK would leave the EU. So that is the law, it clearly stated that the UK would leave. 

 

Now, that law can of course be repealed by parliament. In doing so they would spark a massive constitutional crisis, since such a repeal, unless preceded by a general election would contradict both the referendum instruction and the subsequent general election. I guess that neither party has the courage to do that.

 

So that is the law, it is not affected by the meandering dreams and wishes of Mr Tusk, or your enthusiasm for telling us what we should do!

[Ulic]

Has that not been the EU plan all along. Turn the screws hard enough in negotiations that the UK taps out.

[welovesundaysatspace]

41 minutes ago, JAG said:

Indeed, let's stick to the laws.

 

The relevant laws in this case are those created by The European Union (Withdrawal) Act of 2018. This act, was passed by a thumping majority (some 500) MPs. Those MPs had been sent to parliament by a General Election in which both the party which formed the government and the main opposition stood on manifestos declaring that the UK would leave the EU. So that is the law, it clearly stated that the UK would leave. 

 

Now, that law can of course be repealed by parliament. In doing so they would spark a massive constitutional crisis, since such a repeal, unless preceded by a general election would contradict both the referendum instruction and the subsequent general election. I guess that neither party has the courage to do that.

 

So that is the law, it is not affected by the meandering dreams and wishes of Mr Tusk, or your enthusiasm for telling us what we should do!

Indeed parliament is sovereign and can enact laws and change laws and undo laws as it likes, and Brexiteers see a constitutional crisis when parliament is carrying it out the constitution in a way that Brexiteers don’t like. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

It's fair to say Merkel is reluctant to face up to (and talk honestly about) the political ramifications of the pipeline expansion. I assume that's what the OP meant.  

Apart from obviously not being the case, how exactly does Nordstrom 2 prove the other guy’s claim of a secret oil deal? 

[Stupooey]

18 hours ago, Tilacme said:

This of course being the guy who believes 17.4m brits should go to hell.

I think you'll find that about 1m of your 17.4m are already there. Probably a step up from being in a no-deal, post-Brexit Britain though.

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find it amazing that after 3 years Brexiteers can’t see where Brexit is heading.

 

Fail to plan, plan to fail.

quote "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

 

This line of your post reminds me of who is actually and "in control" of Brexit.

 

It is the Remainer PM, the majority of her cabinet (at least those who don't have the decency to resign) who took on the task of delivering Brexit, fully and completely to the people, who entrusted her/them with this task.

 

From what I have seen in the past 3 years make me weep with frustration and rage.

 

IMHO Blind Freddie's dog could do a better job.

[flossie35]

19 hours ago, smedly said:

in your opinion

 

the election commission in the UK might think otherwise as would our current government as do 17.4+ million people

 

you cannot rerun a referendum before the first one is implemented - any simpleton gets it

You implement an ADVISORY referendum by listening to the advice. Full stop. You are not obliged to take the advice, especially when it results from lies and fraud that would have rendered it null and void had it been decisive. Which it wasn't.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

You implement an ADVISORY referendum by listening to the advice. Full stop. You are not obliged to take the advice, especially when it results from lies and fraud that would have rendered it null and void had it been decisive. Which it wasn't.

 

 

STILL wet dreaming................pathetic.

[smedly]

9 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

You implement an ADVISORY referendum by listening to the advice. Full stop. You are not obliged to take the advice, especially when it results from lies and fraud that would have rendered it null and void had it been decisive. Which it wasn't.

it might have advisory if that was how it was intended - it wasn't and everyone knew that before they voted

 

what lies ?

 

decisive ? you don't think that 1.3 million people was decisive - that's almost a 3rd of the total population of Ireland decisive

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, Loiner said:

Keep dreaming Mr Tusk. There are signs the EU is cracking, while the Leavers resolve is becoming stronger in the UK.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Sounds like his dreams are better than your's! Certainly more realistic!!

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

it might have advisory if that was how it was intended - it wasn't and everyone knew that before they voted

 

what lies ?

 

decisive ? you don't think that 1.3 million people was decisive - that's almost a 3rd of the total population of Ireland decisive

 

Wrong. For the millionth time. Referendum's can only be advisory under British constitutional law. The fact the Tories and Labor parties chose to say they would respect the results, and Cameron promised, with no authority to do so, is neither here nor there.

 

Parliament is the sovereign body and must decide. Not clown Cameron, treasonous Theresa, commie Corbyn and his marxist mates or the Tory and Labor parties. MP's have to decide.

 

Lies - were you asleep when Boris, Gove, Farage, and the sinister R-Mogg deliberately mislead the electorate over and over again. You really think the NHS will get the 350m GBP per week?? 

An expert was recently interviewed on the BBC. She said the average trade deal negotiation and concluding takes 7 years! Boris had people believing it could be done on the back of a fag packet in Sparrow's fart time! Gove with his "Britain will hold all the cards - <deleted>!" Just a few.

 

The UK population is 67 million. Ireland's population size is of no relevance. What is relevant is that the % difference was very small.

[Baerboxer]

31 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

STILL wet dreaming................pathetic.

 

So please explain to us all why you believe leaving the EU is the right decision.

[Baerboxer]

40 minutes ago, billd766 said:

quote "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

 

This line of your post reminds me of who is actually and "in control" of Brexit.

 

It is the Remainer PM, the majority of her cabinet (at least those who don't have the decency to resign) who took on the task of delivering Brexit, fully and completely to the people, who entrusted her/them with this task.

 

From what I have seen in the past 3 years make me weep with frustration and rage.

 

IMHO Blind Freddie's dog could do a better job.

 

And pray tell what happened to all those champions of Brexit politicians?

 

They all buggered off and to date have not issued one single plan of their own. Promised but not delivered. <deleted>!

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So please explain to us all why you believe leaving the EU is the right decision.

 

 

 

Because that is what 17.4m voted to do.

[Thingamabob]

20 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

He never said that; it’s just another example of Brexiteers manipulating facts. 

 

No, it doesn’t. 

Yes it does.

[smedly]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Wrong. For the millionth time. Referendum's can only be advisory under British constitutional law. The fact the Tories and Labor parties chose to say they would respect the results, and Cameron promised, with no authority to do so, is neither here nor there.

 

Parliament is the sovereign body and must decide. Not clown Cameron, treasonous Theresa, commie Corbyn and his marxist mates or the Tory and Labor parties. MP's have to decide.

 

Lies - were you asleep when Boris, Gove, Farage, and the sinister R-Mogg deliberately mislead the electorate over and over again. You really think the NHS will get the 350m GBP per week?? 

An expert was recently interviewed on the BBC. She said the average trade deal negotiation and concluding takes 7 years! Boris had people believing it could be done on the back of a fag packet in Sparrow's fart time! Gove with his "Britain will hold all the cards - <deleted>!" Just a few.

 

The UK population is 67 million. Ireland's population size is of no relevance. What is relevant is that the % difference was very small.

nice try 

 

I'm going to guess from that post you are either Irish or Scottish or just a sore deluded loser - the referendum was run - the leave vote won - get over it and move on

 

 

and on the subject of Irish - their only concern is possibly losing free access to the UK's NHS for which they contribute nothing  

[smedly]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So please explain to us all why you believe leaving the EU is the right decision.

because 17.4 (and a majority of 1.3) million people said so - get over it 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, JAG said:

Indeed, let's stick to the laws.

 

The relevant laws in this case are those created by The European Union (Withdrawal) Act of 2018. This act, was passed by a thumping majority (some 500) MPs. Those MPs had been sent to parliament by a General Election in which both the party which formed the government and the main opposition stood on manifestos declaring that the UK would leave the EU. So that is the law, it clearly stated that the UK would leave. 

 

Now, that law can of course be repealed by parliament. In doing so they would spark a massive constitutional crisis, since such a repeal, unless preceded by a general election would contradict both the referendum instruction and the subsequent general election. I guess that neither party has the courage to do that.

 

So that is the law, it is not affected by the meandering dreams and wishes of Mr Tusk, or your enthusiasm for telling us what we should do!

 

You are correct and illustrate how parliament and the two main political parties in the UK have created the constitutional mess we are now in.

 

Many MP's who voted for the EU (Withdrawal)Act 2018, I believe did so out of: obedience to party whips; a desire for their own political survival; career advancement etc rather than a conviction that leaving was in the best interests of the country. Ever since they have been trying to find a way to water it down, to leave without "leaving" whilst still be able to claim with some weasely words that they implemented Brexit and pat themselves on the back. Labor have the added objective of trying to discredit the government and Tories and get themselves in power to wreak their havoc.

 

In short, our current bunch of MP's haven't got the courage of their convictions, are too self interested and failed to do the job they were elected to do.

 

The only two real choices were to stay in the EU, with the deal we had, or leave with no deal and then negotiate a new trade deal and relationship. One they went down the road of seeking a watered down exit, with all sorts of links still there; and paying a big price for it, they played in the hands of certain EU leaders and governments. The out put was May's crap deal which very few want because most can see it's crap. Labor are proposing worse, which will cost more, but spending tax payer's money comes very easy to them!

 

Now parliament has hamstrung itself. They have voted that leaving with no deal is not an option; have rightly rejected May's crap deal; don't have the stomach for a GE or another advisory referendum and are even more scared, for their own careers, of withdrawing Article 50.

 

I have no idea what the solution will be, but I doubt it will be good.

[Baerboxer]

12 minutes ago, smedly said:

because 17.4 (and a majority of 1.3) million people said so - get over it 

 

And 16.1 million said so.

 

Now, explain why you think leaving is the right decision. Or is the question too hard?

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, smedly said:

nice try 

 

I'm going to guess from that post you are either Irish or Scottish or just a sore deluded loser - the referendum was run - the leave vote won - get over it and move on

 

 

and on the subject of Irish - their only concern is possibly losing free access to the UK's NHS for which they contribute nothing  

 

Ignoring your insults to different peoples within the UK, and assertions that voting for Brexit means that someone is English or isn't deluded which it doesn't, I will try to answer civilly and simply for you.

 

You clearly don't understand or want to understand the constitution and governance of your own country. So I suspect you have no idea about the EU either.

 

Repeating parrot fashion, over and over, that "we won" isn't of any consequence. No one denies that more people voted in an advisory (that is what it legally was regardless of what you think or wish) referendum.

 

The advice does not have to be taken and can be ignored at any time by parliament. It does not "have to be implemented first" as you keep also insisting.