Latest Retirement Extension a Warning .

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I always wonder where it all goes?... You never really see any paperwork stacked up... No filing cabinets or such.. Never a mention of “well check the archive”... Recycled?… Never a report of it washing up on a beach?...  

I often wondered the same thing until my last visit.  Outside in the back of the building was a "holding cell" (sign over the open but barred door) and a open door to a toilet which were both crammed full of large black trash bags tied at the tops, each having a piece of paper taped onto them with what looked like numbers and dates.  No way to get in or out of the rooms.

 

The bags appeared to be full of stacks and stacks of papers (though I cannot say for sure what was in them).  What else could it be?  It certainly wasn't regular garbage. 

 

Maybe they are storing them until the large truck comes to haul them off to some other location?  Off-site storage / landfill / bonfire?  who knows

[Andrew Dwyer]

I always wonder where it all goes?... You never really see any paperwork stacked up... No filing cabinets or such.. Never a mention of “well check the archive”... Recycled?… Never a report of it washing up on a beach?...  

In the past I’ve had a couple of receipts ( 90 days and TM30 etc ) that have been recycled , some one else’s passport details !!

[scubascuba3]

in jomtien the copy business just outside is a goldmine, you want to know why they want copies of absolutely every page of every book/document - because someone high up in immigration owns the copy business, lets not get into who owns/shares in most of the agency businesses in pattaya
 
the huge waste of paper is shocking

3 baht a sheet in Jomtien immigration or 0.5-1 baht on Threpassit opposite Night market

[rosst]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:12 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

All the immigration offices, and officers, around the country, have their own interpretation of the laws.

 

If you went to another office, on the same day, with the same paperwork, it probably would have been accepted.

 

My point being, no one really knows where they stand in Thai immigration law, because the interpretation of the laws are different from office to office, and from officer to officer.

 

Actually, for all we know, a guy walks into the same office as you, on the same day, with the same paperwork, in the same circumstances, but sees a different immigration officer, and is approved.  

 

It's a messy and unpredictable system, with no one really knowing where they stand within it.

 

Just look how ridiculous it is that you can be denied entry at an airport, despite a valid visa, but within hours, legally cross a land board with the same visa.    

I have made the transition to the Philippines for precisely these reasons, and I believe it will get worse rather than better. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, rosst said:

I have made the transition to the Philippines for precisely these reasons, and I believe it will get worse rather than better. 

Absolutely. People considering moving to Thailand take note. 

[2tall]

A different tack here, but, anyways what are the likely scenario and options for retirement extension renewal if applicant fails to maintain the minimum bank balance of 400,000 Baht? I see this requirement becoming "watered down" significantly and just eliminated soon!

Edited April 20, 2019 by 2tall

[Joe Mcseismic]

16 minutes ago, 2tall said:

A different tack here, but, anyways what are the likely scenario and options for retirement extension renewal if applicant fails to maintain the minimum bank balance of 400,000 Baht? I see this requirement becoming "watered down" significantly and just eliminated soon!

I would take a guess that if you go below the stipulated periods for keeping the 800k and the 400k, you won't get another extension because you have broken immigration law.

[khastan]

Judging from my recent experience I honestly do not think they have got a clue what rules to apply at the moment. The only way anyone will know otherwise for certain is when they come to renew their visa extensions. Even if you apply for a simple retirement extension the whole pack of paperwork that they have just spent the last hour plus collating and sorting has to go to a higher authority for final approval, so even they have not got the final say. If you can afford to do so I think you would be well advised for the foreseeable future to stick to the new rules they have drawn up, that is what I intend to do, but I will add with great reluctance.

[khastan]

Joe Mcseismic
2tall said:
A different tack here, but, anyways what are the likely scenario and options for retirement extension renewal if applicant fails to maintain the minimum bank balance of 400,000 Baht? I see this requirement becoming "watered down" significantly and just eliminated soon!

I would take a guess that if you go below the stipulated periods for keeping the 800k and the 400k, you won't get another extension because you have broken immigration law.

Joe I fully recognize what you say but for them to apply that rule in stone notification that the applicant have knowledge of these requirements has to be signed for when they do their visa extension beforehand , surely.

[Joe Mcseismic]

47 minutes ago, khastan said:

Joe Mcseismic
2tall said:
A different tack here, but, anyways what are the likely scenario and options for retirement extension renewal if applicant fails to maintain the minimum bank balance of 400,000 Baht? I see this requirement becoming "watered down" significantly and just eliminated soon!

I would take a guess that if you go below the stipulated periods for keeping the 800k and the 400k, you won't get another extension because you have broken immigration law.

Joe I fully recognize what you say but for them to apply that rule in stone notification that the applicant have knowledge of these requirements has to be signed for when they do their visa extension beforehand , surely.

I'll be doing my extension next week, but, it's been reported multiple times that you do have to sign a piece of paper saying you understand the new rules. Surely, that document is the one you are talking about.

[khastan]

Yes but I did not sign one and no mention whatsoever about new rules.

[marcusarelus]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:59 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

I'll happily leave before I lose control over 800k baht of my money.

 

I'll see how it plays out with the agents, and if they can't get around it, I'm off to Vietnam, and will come back frequently on tourist visas.   

Bin the control talk.  Everyone knows you don't lose control of your money.  If you don't want to stay take your money and leave.  No loss of control. 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, rosst said:

I have made the transition to the Philippines for precisely these reasons, and I believe it will get worse rather than better. 

How many years ago did you move to the Philippines?  In 2016? 

[Thailand Outcast]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I would take a guess that if you go below the stipulated periods for keeping the 800k and the 400k, you won't get another extension because you have broken immigration law.

I'm sure they will invent a "fee" for going under the 400k.  Yet another money spinner, and farang are easy targets.  Money number one here.

[Thailand Outcast]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Bin the control talk.  Everyone knows you don't lose control of your money.  If you don't want to stay take your money and leave.  No loss of control. 

If you don't lose control of your money, how about you explain how you can't touch 800k of your own money for 5 months, and 400k of your own money for 12 months, which is, basically, perpetually, equals no loss of control.  ????

Edited April 20, 2019 by Thailand Outcast

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

If you don't lose control of your money, how about you explain how you can't touch 800k of your own money for 5 months, and 400k of your own money for 12 months, equals no loss of control.  ????

Exactly. This is onerous. This is highly unusual compared to any other international retirement visa program. Of course your money is locked up and if you do go under presumably to prepare to leave Thailand, you instantly put yourself into questionable legal status. Really, many of us are kind of stuck here more or less for various reasons, but these changes should put all prospective future expats on high alert. 

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

If you don't lose control of your money, how about you explain how you can't touch 800k of your own money for 5 months, and 400k of your own money for 12 months, which is, basically, perpetually, equals no loss of control.  ????

You can touch it all you want.  You can take it out.  You can leave it in.  Up to you.  There are many ways to live in Thailand.  One method is income another is a 2 year Visa from your home country with no money in Thai banks.  If you choose the 800/400k method you must leave the money in the bank but at all times it is under your control.  The variable is the visa/extension. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You can touch it all you want.  You can take it out.  You can leave it in.  Up to you.  There are many ways to live in Thailand.  One method is income another is a 2 year Visa from your home country with no money in Thai banks.  If you choose the 800/400k method you must leave the money in the bank but at all times it is under your control.  The variable is the visa/extension. 

No. You are severely restricted from touching it if you want to use it for the bank method. That's what the point is. People using the bank method. 

[Thailand Outcast]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. This is onerous. This is highly unusual compared to any other international retirement visa program. Of course your money is locked up and if you do go under presumably to prepare to leave Thailand, you instantly put yourself into questionable legal status. Really, many of us are kind of stuck here more or less for various reasons, but these changes should put all prospective future expats on high alert. 

When you look at it, objectively, they say the deposit of this money is to ensure you can support yourself, but you can't use it to support yourself this year, otherwise, you don't get a visa for next year.  So, it's not money you can use at all, really.  ????

 

It's just a cheap loan to Thai banks. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Thailand Outcast said:

When you look at it, objectively, they say the deposit of this money is to ensure you can support yourself, but you can't use it to support yourself this year, otherwise, you don't get a visa for next year.  So, it's not money you can use at all, really.  ????

 

It's just a cheap loan to Thai banks. 

Yep. It's a cloud cuckoo land rule. We're being jerked around. End of. 

[Thailand Outcast]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

No. You are severely restricted from touching it if you want to use it for the bank method. That's what the point is. People using the bank method. 

Yes, and not to mention the lousy 1.5% return you get to be able to get next year's visa. 

 

Now, it's ok for those already embedded here, but a lousy deal like this is hardly going to to attract new expats to Thailand in the future. 

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes, and not to mention the lousy 1.5% return you get to be able to get next year's visa. 

 

Now, it's ok for those already embedded here, but a lousy deal like this is hardly going to to attract new expats to Thailand in the future. 

You can get more than 2%, and it's more that what is offered by many western banks...

 

And for the new expats, if they don't like this method (800k) to stay, at least 3 other methods have been given in this thread. Hard to think that none of these 3 can be easy for them.

[Thailand Outcast]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You can touch it all you want.  You can take it out.  You can leave it in.  Up to you.  There are many ways to live in Thailand.  One method is income another is a 2 year Visa from your home country with no money in Thai banks.  If you choose the 800/400k method you must leave the money in the bank but at all times it is under your control.  The variable is the visa/extension. 

 

"The variable is the visa/extension." - No.  The variable is the punishment for using your own money.  

 

The 800k / 400k for next year's visa is akin to "can you send 800k for sick buffalo."  ????

[Thailand Outcast]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You can get more than 2%, and it's more that what is offered by many western banks...

 

And for the new expats, if they don't like this method (800k) to stay, at least 3 other methods have been given in this thread. Hard to think that none of these 3 can be easy for them.

2% is way under the 6% to 8% I am currently getting on my money, with minimal risk.

 

Anyway, for me, it's agents in the future, or leave, but no way I will have my finances manipulated.  

 

Thai authorities seem to think there are no other alternatives to Thailand in the region, but there is, and they are looking better by the day.

[rabas]

"It's under your control...."  If you've lived here 35 years, all your investments are here, have a 3 generation family that depends on you, which you helped bring up, all your friends here, ...

 

... then to say it's under your control you can always remove it,  is technically correct the same way as parachuting school teaching, if something goes wrong on the way down, don't panic, you have the rest of your life to fix it. 

[Thailand Outcast]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

"It's under your control...."  If you've lived here 35 years, all your investments are here, have a 3 generation family that depends on you, which you helped bring up, all your friends here, ...

 

... then to say it's under your control you can always remove it,  is technically correct the same way as parachuting school teaching, if something goes wrong on the way down, don't panic, you have the rest of your life to fix it. 

Or, your reserve chute is Vietnam, Bali, Philippines etc, and everyone needs a reserve chute.    ????

[GinBoy2]

21 minutes ago, Thailand Outcast said:

 

"The variable is the visa/extension." - No.  The variable is the punishment for using your own money.  

 

The 800k / 400k for next year's visa is akin to "can you send 800k for sick buffalo."  ????

You are right whether it's 1% or 2% interest on that ฿800K it's pretty worthless, so yeah invest in a couple of cows that would probably yield more, in a Thai context of course!

 

Oh but of course you cant. It has to be tied up in tht next to worthless bank account

Edited April 20, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Thailand Outcast]

11 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

You are right whether it's 1% or 2% interest on that ฿800K it's pretty worthless, so yeah invest in a couple of cows that would probably yield more, in a Thai context of course!

 

Oh but of course you cant. It has to be tied up in tht next to worthless bank account

Yes, and it makes for an expensive visa, when compared to nearby countries. 

[BertM]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

And for the new expats, if they don't like this method (800k) to stay, at least 3 other methods have been given in this thread. Hard to think that none of these 3 can be easy for them.

You are correct. There are several ways to stay here. It's just not as easy as it was before when all someone needed was an income affidavit with no proof of income needed. Let's see, 1) an O-A visa from your home country without having to keep money in Thai bank, or 2) xfer 65k monthly and pay the xfer fees, or 3) keep 800k/400k in Thai bank earning a low interest rate, or 4) the combination (income & bank) method, or 5) the tourist visas & border runs, or 6) get the US gov't to send SS directly over if > 65k. Just have to choose which option is best or choose to live somewhere else.

Edited April 20, 2019 by BertM

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes, and not to mention the lousy 1.5% return you get to be able to get next year's visa. 

 

Now, it's ok for those already embedded here, but a lousy deal like this is hardly going to to attract new expats to Thailand in the future. 

They don't want more expats. That's exactly the point. Unless, of course, you can meet the requirements.

Good guys in (rich), bad people out (poor).