Admitted Russian agent Butina asks U.S. court to be lenient

[rooster59]

Admitted Russian agent Butina asks U.S. court to be lenient

By Ginger Gibson

 

Maria Butina appears in a police booking photograph released by the Alexandria Sheriff's Office in Alexandria, Virginia, U.S. August 18, 2018. Alexandria Sheriff's Office/Handout via REUTERS/Files

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Maria Butina, who has admitted to working as a Russian agent to infiltrate an influential U.S. gun rights group and make inroads with conservative activists and Republicans, asked the court to sentence her to time served ahead of her April 26 sentencing, according to court documents.

 

Butina, 30, a former graduate student at American University who publicly advocated for gun rights, pleaded guilty in December to one count of conspiring to act as a foreign agent for Russia. She has remained in custody since her arrest in July 2018.

 

"Although Maria has committed a serious offense, just punishment does not require additional incarceration," her attorneys argue in a sentencing memo filed on Friday.

 

Butina, a Russian citizen, expects to be sent back to her native country after being released from jail, her attorney said.

 

"She has been separated from her family, in a foreign country, for over nine months. She has languished for three of those months in administrative segregation - solitary confinement by another name — where she was enclosed in a small cell for 22 hours a day," the filing states.

 

Butina has admitted to conspiring with a Russian official and two Americans from 2015 until her arrest to infiltrate the National Rifle Association and create unofficial lines of communication to try to make Washington's policy toward Moscow more friendly. The NRA is closely aligned with U.S. conservatives and Republican politicians including President Donald Trump.

 

U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in February delayed sentencing at the request of prosecutors, who said Butina was cooperating in their ongoing investigation. Butina's attorney, Robert Driscoll, said at the time his client was ready for sentencing.

 

Russia in December accused the United States of forcing Butina to falsely confess to what it described as the "absolutely ridiculous charges" of her being a Russian agent.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-04-20

[mercman24]

oh how my heart bleeds, poor little girl, being locked up

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mercman24 said:

oh how my heart bleeds, poor little girl, being locked up

It should. There's no evidence she had any formal connection to the Russian government. The prosecutors kept making ominous charges and then walking them back after they realized they were false. She basically was tripped up by a questionable law requiring "reporting" of "foreign agents," which applied because she spoke to a Russian member of parliament about what happened when she attended a (public) campaign event.

 

This isn't some spy stealing government secrets. It's a graduate student who didn't realize that a registration law applied to her based on who she spoke to. 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

It should. There's no evidence she had any formal connection to the Russian government. The prosecutors kept making ominous charges and then walking them back after they realized they were false. She basically was tripped up by a questionable law requiring "reporting" of "foreign agents," which applied because she spoke to a Russian member of parliament about what happened when she attended a (public) campaign event.

 

This isn't some spy stealing government secrets. It's a graduate student who didn't realize that a registration law applied to her based on who she spoke to. 

Yeh right.

 

The NRA and a number of Republican politicians want us to believe that too.

[Guest]

I don't care what the NRA or Republicans want us to believe. I read the indictments and reports myself. She wasn't lobbying on anyone's behalf, nor did she have any access to government officials, documents, secrets, etc.

 

She attended a legitimate MA program, got straight As, and yes...she was active in gun rights organizations and attended some public political events. Those are things Americans have every right to do. Her mistake was having been born in Russia, telling a Russian with ties to the Duma about the events (silly, because they were televised anyway), then not "registering" as a "foreign agent." 

[Becker]

I'm sure a call from Trump's handler will sort this out forthwith.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

I don't care what the NRA or Republicans want us to believe. I read the indictments and reports myself. She wasn't lobbying on anyone's behalf, nor did she have any access to government officials, documents, secrets, etc.

 

She attended a legitimate MA program, got straight As, and yes...she was active in gun rights organizations and attended some public political events. Those are things Americans have every right to do. Her mistake was having been born in Russia, telling a Russian with ties to the Duma about the events (silly, because they were televised anyway), then not "registering" as a "foreign agent." 

Quote

 

 

Butina has admitted to conspiring with a Russian official and two Americans from 2015 until her arrest to infiltrate the National Rifle Association and create unofficial lines of communication to try to make Washington’s policy toward Moscow more friendly. The NRA is closely aligned with U.S. conservatives and Republican politicians including President Donald Trump.

,,,

Court records have pointed to the involvement of several others with Butina’s actions including Paul Erickson, a conservative political activist with deep Republican ties who was romantically linked to her. Erickson is referred to as “Person 1” court records, which stated that he helped advise her on which American politicians to target for meetings.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-butina/admitted-russian-agent-butina-to-be-sentenced-in-u-s-on-april-26-idUSKCN1R91RY

[from the home of CC]

what would happen to an American caught in Russia doing the same thing?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And from the Washington Post:

 

Quote

 

Capitalizing on her novelty as a Siberian-born gun activist in restrictive Russia, Butina and Torshin invited NRA leaders to Moscow in December 2015, including Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke and David Keene, a former NRA president and past head of the powerful American Conservative Union.

 

Butina stressed to Torshin the importance of setting up meetings with top Russian politicians, including a successful gathering with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Afterward, she wrote Torshin: “We should let them express their gratitude now, we will put pressure on them quietly later.”

 

Later, she wrote Torshin that “she had laid the groundwork for an unofficial channel of communication with the next U.S. administration.”

 

 

She wasn't just some air headed academic. She was dealing with Russian government figures and working to bring them into contact with NRA and prominent Republican conservatives. And she was in bed literally with a U.S. Republican political operative.

 

"We should let them express their gratitude now, we will put pressure on them quietly later."

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

what would happen to an American caught in Russia doing the same thing?

Far worse, I'm sure. But that's "whataboutism." Just because the Russian criminal justice system is worse, doesn't make 22-hour-a-day solitary for something like this OK.

 

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

She wasn't just some air headed academic. She was dealing with Russian government figures and working to bring them into contact with NRA and prominent Republican conservatives.

Never said she was air-headed. If you earn straight As in an M.A. program at American U. you clearly have something in your head. Still, the charges against her are largely based on stupid bragging. For example, her AU classmates reported her because she got drunk and bragged to them about her contacts in the Russian government. And her messages to Torshin, a Russian politician for whom she previously worked as a secretary, locked her in.

 

As for "contact," yeah, I get it. She opened up channels of communication between Russian and American officials. She founded a Russian activist group based on gun rights (which are virtually non-existent in Russia) and tried to make connections to the NRA. None of that is illegal, either for Americans or non-Americans. What crime was failing to register, and it was "triggered" by the fact that she was, as you wrote "dealing with Russian government figures." The "put pressure on them" line was the most damning. Still, there's zero evidence that she actually did this at the behest of the Russian government. She's never even been accused of being a "spy" or anything of the sort. Everything she did was legal. Basically, under FARA, she qualifies as an "agent" of a foreign power and broke the law simply by not filing the paperwork. The FBI used her as a pawn, tracking her from the moment she arrived, hoping she'd slip up, so they could leverage her.

 

I'm not making light of the need to keep tabs on foreign agents. But it's overkill to lock someone like this up for a year, force them into 22-hour-a-day isolation, ask for a lengthy prison term on top of this, etc. They have already been devastated. They'll be deported, where they could face additional problems. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

 

I can imagine analogous situations happening to Americans, including myself. I know some elected officials. What happens if, through my work, or through some folks I meet in Thailand, I'm asked to speak about something in my area of expertise? If I then mention what happened to a State Rep. I know, or to a House Committee staffer I know, or to someone I know on a presidential campaign, can that be used to prove that I'm an "agent" of the United States? 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

But it's overkill to lock someone like this up for a year, force them into 22-hour-a-day isolation, ask for a lengthy prison term on top of this, etc. They have already been devastated. They'll be deported, where they could face additional problems. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

 

She should consider herself lucky that she wasn't arrested and jailed in Thailand. Solitary confinement in the U.S. would be a blessing compared to regular prison confinement in Thailand....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

Everything she did was legal.

 

No, everything she did was NOT legal... She was working to influence U.S. politics on behalf of a foreign government without having legally registered as a foreign agent, as required by federal law.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, everything she did was NOT legal... She was working to influence U.S. politics on behalf of a foreign government without having legally registered as a foreign agent, as required by federal law.

John, you seem like an intelligent person. So I won't accuse you of being stupid in how you quoted me out of context. But the only other option is that you were being a bit sneaky. ????

 

Everything she did, in and of itself, was legal. Her crime was failing to register.

 

We can quibble back and forth over to what extent she was acting "on behalf of" the Russian government, and to what extent she was "working to influence U.S. politics." The intelligence analysts I read found the case curious because she really wasn't asking anything. *Maybe* she was a "spotter," who sought to make those early connections so that others could exploit them. *Maybe* she was just trying to promote herself and/or her causes, and the governmental contacts were incidental. 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

 

Everything she did, in and of itself, was legal. Her crime was failing to register.

 

 

Try applying some common sense:

 

--How did a Russian woman from Siberia of all places end up getting a student visa to study in  the U.S.?

--Who paid for her studies at American University?

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up at a university in Washington DC of all places?

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up in bed/involved with a Republican political operative.

--How did it come to pass that this Russian woman from Siberia was working with/on behalf of a senior Russian politician?  Why her of all people?

 

I could go on.... But anyone with half a whiff of common sense can pretty well figure what was going on here.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Try applying some common sense:

Aww...do I have to? Only if you promise to stop pulling mid-paragraph sentences out of context.

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--How did a Russian woman from Siberia of all places end up getting a student visa to study in  the U.S.?

--Who paid for her studies at American University?

You might think these are poignant questions. I find them offensive, as someone who is very close with a Russian woman from Siberia (of all places), who got a student visa and did graduate study in the United States. Read the indictments and read the reporting. Is there even an allegation that the Russian government paid for her studies? Is your next argument going to be that the FSB paid for her undergraduate and her teaching degree, or that Putin gave her the startup funds for her retail business? I see that she once owned seven furniture stores, and that her parents are an engineer and a business owner. But I guess it's just easier to assume that everyone from Siberia is too unsophisticated to qualify for a tourist visa, and too poor to pay for it. 

 

In all seriousness, maybe she had help. She seemed to be good at getting close to men. Paul Erickson was probably her sugar daddy, and he set up a business to help pay for Butina's expenses. Maybe she also had an assistantship at AU (that's how I got my graduate degrees). Whatever the case, there's zero evidence of Russian government money bankrolling her studies.

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up at a university in Washington DC of all places?

Maybe, maybe not. She had already been with Erickson, who has D.C. connections. She visited while working as Torshin's assistant, too. And AU's international affairs program is extremely strong.

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up in bed/involved with a Republican political operative.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe she got involved with him and THEN was approached by Torshin about exploiting the relationship (there's no evidence of this). Maybe she saw a potential sugar daddy, green card, or chance to network and promote herself. 

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--How did it come to pass that this Russian woman from Siberia was working with/on behalf of a senior Russian politician?  Why her of all people?

Again, this is offensive. You frame it like she lived in an igloo. She comes from a district with 2.5 million people, and a city with 600,000+. She won a local election at age 19. She's clearly an enterprising person. She liquidated most of her businesses, moved to Moscow, and got involved in politics. I know plenty of Russians, and given this woman's background, it's not surprising that she'd be able to get a job like that.

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I could go on.... But anyone with half a whiff of common sense can pretty well figure what was going on here.

So could I, but how's this for common sense:

 

You are suggesting that she was much more than someone who made connections, communicated with elected officials (not the FSB or the military, mind you), and failed to register for those activities. I'm not naive enough to say you're definitely wrong. I'm sure there are aspects we don't know about. But to suggest that she was up to significantly more, and that her activities were deliberately managed by the Russian government, is:

1. Not supported by the publicly available evidence,
2. Calls for some suspensions of "common sense," itself. Think about it: if this was a much bigger plot, then the Russians are taking a successful young woman, pimping her out to a relatively insignificant political consultant, sending her to public events where images and video of her are all over the place, allowing her to go out drinking with her American classmates (where she brags about her government contacts (!?!?!?!)), all in order to...spend a bunch of money giving free trips to American political nobodies with pro-gun ideologies, for the purposes of???

Yeah, there could be more. But if that's how the Russians want to waste their money, I'm laughing. And if that's how they "burn" their assets ("agents"), I'm laughing even more. 

 

It's amateur hour, and that's not usually how the Russians operate.

[rudi49jr]

9 minutes ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

It's amateur hour, and that's not usually how the Russians operate.

Remember those two Russian GRU agents who came to Salisbury "to see the cathedral"? I would call that pretty amateurish. In Holland four Russian agents were caught who were planning to hack into the wifi network of the OPCW. Also not a very professional job there. And the list goes on.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Remember those two Russian GRU agents who came to Salisbury "to see the cathedral"? I would call that pretty amateurish.

That's a really interesting point.

 

Buuuut, if you think about it, it's the M.O. of Russians when they want to send a message and scare people. They poisoned Skripal and his daughter. Most people intuitively knew it was them. So they probably knowingly gave that ridiculous interview to thumb their noses at the world. It's the plausible deniability version of a mafioso describing where they got stolen merchandise: "It fell off a truck."

 

Acts of violence are one thing. When it comes to spies and gathering information, compromising foreign leaders, etc., I wouldn't expect them to operate like that. I mean, if Butina really is an important asset, she either wouldn't have been bragging about it over drinks with grad students, or she would've registered and been nigh-untouchable.

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

That's a really interesting point.

 

Buuuut, if you think about it, it's the M.O. of Russians when they want to send a message and scare people. They poisoned Skripal and his daughter. Most people intuitively knew it was them. So they probably knowingly gave that ridiculous interview to thumb their noses at the world. It's the plausible deniability version of a mafioso describing where they got stolen merchandise: "It fell off a truck."

 

Acts of violence are one thing. When it comes to spies and gathering information, compromising foreign leaders, etc., I wouldn't expect them to operate like that. I mean, if Butina really is an important asset, she either wouldn't have been bragging about it over drinks with grad students, or she would've registered and been nigh-untouchable.

So you're telling me that Russia willingly compromised two high-ranking GRU officers - one of them was a colonel, I believe - just to send a message? That doesn't make any sense at all, because the poison that was used - novichok - was indication enough that the Russians were behind it.

[Ulic]

Time served sounds reasonable to me. A big nothing as far as I am concerned. It's not like she had or revealed any state secrets. Just another NRA hard-line gun enthusiast who happened to be Russian and didn't register as a foreign lobbyist. Big whoops. 

[Proboscis]

6 hours ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

It should. There's no evidence she had any formal connection to the Russian government. The prosecutors kept making ominous charges and then walking them back after they realized they were false. She basically was tripped up by a questionable law requiring "reporting" of "foreign agents," which applied because she spoke to a Russian member of parliament about what happened when she attended a (public) campaign event.

 

This isn't some spy stealing government secrets. It's a graduate student who didn't realize that a registration law applied to her based on who she spoke to. 

Exactly, this would not be a criminal offence in other Western countries. The USA does this kind of thing all the time in other countries, trying to influence in a positive way the politics of other countries. So why make it a criminal offence in their own?

 

Please understand that I am not so naive as to believe that the Russians did not try to influence the 2016 election and that China and Russia are not actively hacking their way into political entities - but this is criminal activity in any country. In the case of this woman, she stole no state secrets or classified documents and is therefore not a spy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Time served sounds reasonable to me. A big nothing as far as I am concerned. It's not like she had or revealed any state secrets. Just another NRA hard-line gun enthusiast who happened to be Russian and didn't register as a foreign lobbyist. Big whoops. 

 

You're mixing up the difference between being a spy in the traditional sense of things vs. what Russia has been doing a lot lately under Putin, and that's to covertly gain influence. Just as they tried to do in Ukraine and elsewhere around the world.

 

It's not illegal in the U.S. to lobby or advocate on behalf of a foreign government, obviously. But it is illegal to do it secretly and without disclosing it to the federal government so that such activities can be known and monitored by U.S. intelligence agencies.

 

No, this woman wasn't a Russian James Bond. And AFAIK there's no evidence she was trying to steal any secret U.S. government information.

 

But what she clearly WAS trying to do was to gain Russian government influence over and connections with various NRA and Republican Party/conservative political figures in the U.S., who Russia obviously hoped would be in charge of the U.S. government after the 2016 presidential election that they secretly and illegally influenced in a variety of ways in favor of Trump.

 

Which is fine, of course, if you're someone who thinks it's great that Trump and Co. are working more on behalf of their own financial interests and the Russian government than they are on behalf of the American people.

 

She didn't just HAPPEN to be a Russian woman who HAPPENED to get a visa to study in the U.S. that HAPPENED to be in Washington DC, where she HAPPENED to end up in bed with a Republican political strategist at the same time she was working with and/or for a senior Russian political figure by the name of Torshin, while she just HAPPENED be arranging Moscow tour trips for NRA and conservative gun nuts to meet with the Russian foreign minister, among others. Please!!!!

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, look at the Russian woman's activities through the same legal lens that Thailand is using to threaten the death penalty or life imprisonment against the American bitcoin guy over his seastead structure off the coast of Thailand.

 

How are the two cases related at all?  Look at the legal offense that Thailand claims the seastead was/is violating:

 

Quote

 

but Thai authorities insist that it violates Article 119...

 

According to law firm Siam Legal international, “Section 119: Intent to cause injury to the nation” states that, “Whoever does any act with intent to cause the country or any part thereof to descend under the sovereignty of any foreign state, or to deteriorate the independence of the state, shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life.”

 

 

OK, so let's explore Butina's activities through the context of Thai law banning "any act with intent to cause the country [the U.S.] or any part thereof to descend under the sovereignty of any foreign state [Russia], or to deteriorate the independence of the state".

 

As I said before, she's very lucky she's not being prosecuted in Thailand. Or she might be facing life in prison or the death penalty instead of a year-plus in a U.S. federal prison.

 

And perhaps the U.S. needs to have a law like Thailand's Section 119 to better prevent all the foreign influence buying and peddling that's occurring under the Trump Admin.

 

 

[IAMHERE]

Her sentence will depend on how the Judge feels about guns. Wonder if he is a Democrat judge or a Republican judge. Guess we'll know soon.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

So you're telling me that Russia willingly compromised two high-ranking GRU officers - one of them was a colonel, I believe - just to send a message? That doesn't make any sense at all, because the poison that was used - novichok - was indication enough that the Russians were behind it.

They were already compromised. There was video footage, etc. 

 

The "we're tourists" interview gave the Russians a chance to poke the west further, while also clouding the issue for the Russian public. The polling data for Russians is hilarious (only 3% of Russians believed their own intelligence officers were responsible). Even many who, in the back of their minds, are willing to entertain the possibility of Russian involvement, have a lingering feeling that Skripal is a traitor and deserved it. These are the same people who reelect Putin with 70+%.

 

Overall it had a very predictable feel to it. We know they did it. They deny it and present enough of a fig leaf that you can't conclusively prove it. The west reacts (expelling diplomats, etc.), the Russian people galvanize.

[Inn Between]

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Butina, a Russian citizen, expects to be sent back to her native country after being released from jail, her attorney said.

 

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in February delayed sentencing at the request of prosecutors, who said Butina was cooperating in their ongoing investigation. 

So, she's cooperating with US authorities, one would assume, by giving info about her Russian handlers, methods, etc. to the US, and then she will be sent back to Russia. If that's the case, perhaps she'd be better off spending the rest of hers days in the protection of a US prison. 

[utalkin2me]

i was really hoping for a better photo.

[usviphotography]

10 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

what would happen to an American caught in Russia doing the same thing?

I've never heard of Russia randomly arresting foreign graduate students. So first, it would never happen. If Russia didn't like your "political" activities in the country, the most likely outcome would be they'd revoke your passport and put you on a plane home (very similar to what Thailand would probably do- assuming it was just something silly like what Butina was doing and no agitating against the actual government or monarchy). 

[usviphotography]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Try applying some common sense:

 

--How did a Russian woman from Siberia of all places end up getting a student visa to study in  the U.S.?

--Who paid for her studies at American University?

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up at a university in Washington DC of all places?

--Was it just a coincidence she ended up in bed/involved with a Republican political operative.

--How did it come to pass that this Russian woman from Siberia was working with/on behalf of a senior Russian politician?  Why her of all people?

 

I could go on.... But anyone with half a whiff of common sense can pretty well figure what was going on here.

 

She is one of the most prominent gun rights activists in Russia. That is why she was known to one of the most famously Pro-Gun Rights Politicians in Russia. Butina was in fact born in "Siberia" to an upper middle class family, but moved to Moscow as soon as she graduated and speaks fluent English. Does that answer all your questions?

 

Even the oldest and most prestigious Left Wing magazine in the United States denounced the prosecution of Butina as a farce. She is not a "spy". Not an "agent". Just a political activist interested in gun rights:

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/153036/maria-butina-profile-wasnt-russian-spy

[Redline]

16 hours ago, GrumblesMcGee said:

I don't care what the NRA or Republicans want us to believe. I read the indictments and reports myself. She wasn't lobbying on anyone's behalf, nor did she have any access to government officials, documents, secrets, etc.

 

She attended a legitimate MA program, got straight As, and yes...she was active in gun rights organizations and attended some public political events. Those are things Americans have every right to do. Her mistake was having been born in Russia, telling a Russian with ties to the Duma about the events (silly, because they were televised anyway), then not "registering" as a "foreign agent." 

Hillary did it

[mooping20Baht]

The Russkies, just need to play by  the rigged rules, that the  Citizens LLC   (with Chinese subsidiaries)  write for themselves ,  

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chinese+subsidiary+pac+money+us+electron+&t=ffab&ia=web

 

Citizens United v. FEC opened the floodgates for contributions from foreign-owned corporations. One of the first major instances occurred in 2012 when pro-Mitt Romney super PAC Restore Our Future took $1 million from OdysseyRe, an American subsidiary of Canadian insurance firm Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited.

Members of the FEC have long been divided along partisan lines over rules dictating contributions from U.S.-based subsidiaries of foreign-owned companies. In 2016, current FEC Chair Ellen Weintraub proposed creatin