55Jay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Just now, Pib said: Yeap...the new carpet bombing rules are creating a lot of collateral damage...some innocent good guys are getting blown-up (unable to meet extension renewal requirements) because they were not given enough advance warning time to reach the bomb shelter...develop an alternate battle plan. A few embassies took direct hits and waved the white flag. Others carry on with income affidavits same as before and it's all good with TI. Don't know whether to laugh or cry. ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pib Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, 55Jay said: A few embassies took direct hits and waved the white flag. Others carry on with income affidavits same as before and it's all good with TI. Don't know whether to laugh or cry. ???? I would cry. The UK/US/AU/DK embassies bugged-out and pretty much left their wounded citizens on the battlefield. And no one can convince me the embassies still providing the income letters do any real income verification. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Pib said: And no one can convince me the embassies still providing the income letters do any real income verification. Real income verification is a relative concept. I assume if Immigration is pleased with it, it is all what matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Pib said: I would cry. The UK/US/AU/DK embassies bugged-out and pretty much left their wounded citizens on the battlefield. And no one can convince me the embassies still providing the income letters do any real income verification. May have mentioned elsewhere before, chatted with a Canadian guy on Facebook. He got a fresh income affidavit from his Embassy. Appointment. Show pension doc printed off the internet. Letter issued. In and out, 20 minutes, same as before. Said TI accepted it no questions. Funny old world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, 55Jay said: May have mentioned elsewhere before, chatted with a Canadian guy on Facebook. He got a fresh income affidavit from his Embassy. Appointment. Show pension doc printed off the internet. Letter issued. In and out, 20 minutes, same as before. Said TI accepted it no questions. Funny old world. "....printed off the internet." Wonder if he first made some modification to the printout to meet the 65K requirement before showing it to his embassy. In today's world of computers and software it so easy to make from scratch or modify docs to make them say what your want...especially if you know that no real verification will be done by the embassy...the embassy just takes your word for it...that the docs you show them are legit/unmodified. No, I'm not saying he did this....I'm sure the great majority are honest....but it's the minority that causes the carpet bombing....causes the rest of us to scramble for cover. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Golden Triangle Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 I really do hate the 'I'm OK Jack' Brigade, every time I see one I just wish that their next experience at an immigration office is as unpleasant experience as can possibly be, but then they wouldn't report that would they as their worlds are complete and untroubled. I'm not usually a vindictive person but these people P**s me off royally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pagallim Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 Like quite a few I suspect, this year (in fact, this coming week), I'm going the Marriage extension route. Financially, the Retirement option is still there and I qualify either through income or funds in the bank, however I object to the requirement of minimum balance etc, and thus enforced transfers when the exchange rate is less than favourable. In preparation for this, yes there are a few more documents to be photocopied, and M'Sahib went to our Amphur for the document Koror 2 (essentially confirming you're still married), plus a couple of extra photos. December will be our 10th wedding anniversary, so why not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 We can approach all this in a positive way : Thailand Immigration give us different possibilities to acquire, or/and change the way to obtain a yearly extension. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NoshowJones Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Just1Voice said: I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but the bottom line is: It's their country, it's their rules. You either comply, or you leave. Nothing hard about that. I used to really like your posts and even followed them and making a point of reading them especially, now that goes right out the window, imagine coming out with that nonsensical "Nothing hard about that" statement. There is plenty hard about that for some expats who have set their roots here without expecting, to jump through all these new hoops. "It's their country, it's their rules." We all know that, but surely the Thai government have a moral duty to treat expats fairly after so many of them came over here for a peaceful retirement, buying houses, contributing to the Thai economy, and helping to take Thai families out of poverty. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said: I really do hate the 'I'm OK Jack' Brigade, every time I see one I just wish that their next experience at an immigration office is as unpleasant experience as can possibly be, but then they wouldn't report that would they as their worlds are complete and untroubled. I'm not usually a vindictive person but these people P**s me off royally. There is some of the "I'm OK Jack" Brigade on this topic, one in particular. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, possum1931 said: ... contributing to the Thai economy, and helping to take Thai families out of poverty. Is this a subtle way to describe sexpats? ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, luckyluke said: Is this a subtle way to describe sexpats? ☺ All expats are not sexpats, are they? I'm an expat, but not a sexpat, and I would think there are many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 ^ What I was afraid of, Belgian humor is only funny for Belgians. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, possum1931 said: I used to really like your posts and even followed them and making a point of reading them especially, now that goes right out the window, imagine coming out with that nonsensical "Nothing hard about that" statement. There is plenty hard about that for some expats who have set their roots here without expecting, to jump through all these new hoops. "It's their country, it's their rules." We all know that, but surely the Thai government have a moral duty to treat expats fairly after so many of them came over here for a peaceful retirement, buying houses, contributing to the Thai economy, and helping to take Thai families out of poverty. I'm not disputing anything you have said, and I've lost 2 acquaintance who had to leave over this nonsense. It has affected a lot of good people. But I'm also a "realist" who looks at things the way they are, not the way we would like them to be. And as sad as it may be, what I said stands true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: I'm not disputing anything you have said, and I've lost 2 acquaintance who had to leave over this nonsense. It has affected a lot of good people. But I'm also a "realist" who looks at things the way they are, not the way we would like them to be. And as sad as it may be, what I said stands true. The statement "nothing hard about that" in your post sounds very much like an opinion. It seems to me like you are saying "it's OK to give expats more hoops to jump through, if they don't like it they can leave", without any thought for the expats themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Triangle Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Just1Voice said: I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but the bottom line is: It's their country, it's their rules. You either comply, or you leave. Nothing hard about that. But what you don't realise is that YOU do sound obnoxious, for about 6 years I have self funded and self completed my retirement extension, then maybe 18 months ago they started to turn the screws, extra check of this, extra check of that, this paperwork is no good, etc etc. Literally pushing the honest retiree down the path of the agent, so that they get their backhanders, why are you so blind ? why can't you see this ?, it may not have impacted you yet but experience tells me that it will in the not too distant future. So enjoy your gloating for now, and please, when you get kicked back for some flimsy excuse, please have the balls to report it here, promise we won't gloat at your misfortune. ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Sheryl said: For the 800k method there has been a substantial change to the rules. in the past you were allowed to spend the money to live on. Now you are not. Very, very big change. It is a big change, but you can still spend 400K and it only really affects when you bring in your living expenses. If you spend the 800K it needs replacing at sometime. 5 hours ago, Sheryl said: And for the 65K/month there have also been meaningful changes. In the past one only had to have 65k/month gross income, and were free to bring in as much as needed when needed into Thailand through any transfer mechanism that suited you - ATM, Currency transfer services etc. Now you must bring in 65k or more every single month in a manner that generates the required bank codes. For many people to be able to bring in 65K a month means having to have more than 65k/month gross income due to deductions for insurance, tax etc. for example, Americans often have Medicare premium deducted from their SS before it is paid...in which case they would have ot have an income of over 69K/month to meet the new requirement of bringing 65K into the country. It has always been net income. The embassy letters just created a loophole for people on the margin to exploit. 5 hours ago, Sheryl said: And the 800K method clearly has been changed such that the actual required income now is at least 50% higher. It's not that bad. You have always needed 800K plus whatever you spend during the year. You can still bring in the living expanses as and when you want. If transferring sufficient living expenses for the year on day one you now need to transfer an additional three months living expenses. Someone that spends 66.7K pm (800K annually) would only need to bring in an extra 200K on day one to cover their expenses for the year (works out at an extra 21%). Someone spending 40K pm needs to bring in an extra 120K (14%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 1:32 PM, Moonlover said: 3 years ago when the GBP crashed following the referendum. What GBP crash 3 yrs ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Some of you are taking what I said TOTALLY wrong. I am NOT unsympathetic to the plight of some (many) with the rule changes. As I stated, I've lost 2 acquaintances who had to pack it in and go home because of this. I also know they could change the rules again tomorrow in a way that might force me to do the same. But no matter how you look at it, or how you feel about it, the bottom line is that we are basically “guests” here, regardless of how long we've been here, or what family ties we may have established. We have NO, ZERO. ZIP say so on how they choose to run their country, or what rules they may enforce, or come up with. And that is the bottom line. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but we can't do a damn thing about it, other than to comply as best as we can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlover Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, scottiejohn said: What GBP crash 3 yrs ago? The one that sent my monthly income down from 72,000 THB to 62,000 THB per month around about July 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, scottiejohn said: What GBP crash 3 yrs ago? As the post to which you replied, after the EU referendum of 2016, since which sterling has lost 20% against the baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post billd766 Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) On 4/20/2019 at 5:41 PM, ivor bigun said: Been married and together for well over 20 years ,so i reckon its genuine lol 5 hours ago, superal said: Dont be so sure , some of the Thai women have 10 , 15 , 20 , and 25 year plans , just be careful lol???? I am with Ivor on that. We have been married for 18 years next week and we knew each other for 7 years prior to that so that will be 26 years next month and we are still together with our 14 year old son. Why would I have the need to be careful? Perhaps if I had only known her for a couple of months and only married for a year or so I would be concerned. We do have long term plans though, as it is until one of us dies off. Probably me as I will be 75 next month and my wife is a mere spring chicken of a young woman who will be 54 in October. Edited April 21, 2019 by billd766 Added extra text 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike787 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 1:01 PM, ratcatcher said: The only problem is that you have to be married and in a genuine relationship. A situation that doesn't appeal to everyone. A little bit more trouble in some provinces and a nightmare in others. Good advice by ratcatcher. Additionally, if the marriage fails, which they do = NO marriage visa. Make sure you have alternate plans. As well, make sure you are VERY faithful to one woman - HER. If not, you will see what a jealous Thai woman can do to a man. If you survive, next you will be dealing with immigration. Not sure which is worse. To each his own. Good luck whatever you choose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, elviajero said: It is a big change, but you can still spend 400K and it only really affects when you bring in your living expenses. If you spend the 800K it needs replacing at sometime. It has always been net income. The embassy letters just created a loophole for people on the margin to exploit. It's not that bad. You have always needed 800K plus whatever you spend during the year. You can still bring in the living expanses as and when you want. If transferring sufficient living expenses for the year on day one you now need to transfer an additional three months living expenses. Someone that spends 66.7K pm (800K annually) would only need to bring in an extra 200K on day one to cover their expenses for the year (works out at an extra 21%). Someone spending 40K pm needs to bring in an extra 120K (14%). Think that you're missing the point. Given that the majority of the retirement option applicants are indeed retired, and many under that category have limited resources, though adequately sustainable under the previous criteria. There are also those who's Thai lifestyle requirements are substantially less than 65k a month and have no need of such sums and the associated transfer costs as an additional burden. I would also question your 'net income' comment. Having done mostly income letter criteria (though occasionally banked money) extensions for the past 11 years, never have I seen a 'net income' definition, and as such it wasn't an Embassy 'loophole'. My own pension providers send me annual increase letters that are gross amounts, copies of which were supplied for my Embassy letters. Net amounts of pensions can only be calculated though documents such as the P60 (issued annually by the UK tax authorities) as an example, with these bearing no relevance to Thai Immigration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, scottiejohn said: What GBP crash 3 yrs ago? The GBP crash due to Brexit. From January to June 2016 I was getting a forex rate of around 50 thb. In July the rate dropped to 45 thb and around 43 in December 2016 In 2017 it varied between 42.11 to a high of 44.26 In 2018 it varied between 41.64 and 43.87 In 2019 it varied between 40.18 and 42.06. That puts me at about 61,500 to 63,xxx a month which disqualifies me from the retirement extension. These are the actual forex rates I got at the bank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GinBoy2 Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 It's always fascinating to read all this turmoil. Many of us go through the hassle of getting our spouses permanent residency for home countries, and yes most of the time it's a total pain in the ass to get through But once it's done, that it. No money in the bank, no trips to immigration, full rights as any citizen. It just feels like they want to make it as difficult as possible....forever! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Marriage seems to be a rather drastic step to obtain some financial relief. In the case of Australian pensioners, nonsensical because they would lose about 10,000 baht/month of their pension due to Centrelink rules about single vs. couples pension. That's assuming they report their changed status. I've been married once. I was stupid; however, not stupid enough to repeat. My Thai GF and I get along just fine without a piece of paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, pagallim said: I would also question your 'net income' comment. Having done mostly income letter criteria (though occasionally banked money) extensions for the past 11 years, never have I seen a 'net income' definition, and as such it wasn't an Embassy 'loophole'. My own pension providers send me annual increase letters that are gross amounts, copies of which were supplied for my Embassy letters. Net amounts of pensions can only be calculated though documents such as the P60 (issued annually by the UK tax authorities) as an example, with these bearing no relevance to Thai Immigration. The criteria is to have a monthly income of at least 65K, not 65K less tax. A fact born out now by having to transfer at least 65K every month and not your 65K income less tax. It is not stated as net income anywhere in the rules, but it’s implied. As embassy letters did not have to specify net or gross income someone with a gross income of 65K could claim that as their income. That is a loophole. Edited April 21, 2019 by elviajero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gecko123 Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) There's so much irony about all these immigration changes. All these changes are supposed to be ensuring expats have the financial wherewithall to live here, that we're all spending plenty of money and won't ever become wards of the state, right? That's what's behind making sure people really have 800K in the bank or have 65K coming in, right? But those changes are likely inhibiting expat spending patterns more than anything. For one thing, the 800K on deposit for 5 months, 400K on deposit for the remaining 7 months, impairs access to your own money. How is impairing access to your own money going to do anything but inhibit your spending habits? The draconian TM-30 housemaster reporting requirement has made the expat community feel like a criminal element which needs to be monitored 24 hours around the clock. This has sent a jolt of uncertainty through the expat community about how welcoming Thailand will be to expats going forward. And what about rumors about possible future mandatory medical insurance, or possible further hikes in the financial requirements for retirement and marriage visas? Some people are going to start considering the possibility of an unplanned repatriation, won't they? All this uncertainty has to be inhibiting expat spending patterns (cars, new appliances, home improvements, etc.) Any sensible person would have to be setting aside funds to prepare for these potential eventualities, wouldn't they? And for anyone who is managing to skirt these new requirements by hook or crook, of course this is going to cost them more money, likely further crimping their already limited disposable income. So if immigration thinks they're driving out all the Cheap Charlies, maybe they're right. But guess what? For every Cheap Charlie they drive out, all this uncertainty has probably created ten Frugal Freddies in the process! I really question if the Thai government understands the basics of consumer behavior. And another thing that the tourism/immigration department doesn't seem to yet realize is that a big part of Thailand's appeal as a western TOURISM destination, was the selling of the dream-slash-fantasy of a retirement swinging in a hammock under a palm tree beside a loving Thai wife, and if word gets around - as it already undoubtedly has - that Thailand's government is actively working at making that dream less feasible, that's gonna have a long-term negative ripple effect on Western tourism. As much as I hate to admit it, Western tourism does lend a certain caché to a country's global tourism appeal. Put in simple terms, people don't travel as much to places which aren't in vogue with Western tourists. It is also my opinion, that contrary to the endlessly upbeat reports from TAT about neverending increases in tourist arrivals, Thailand's relative tourism appeal is very vulnerable to climate change, not to mention a downturn in the global economy, which many say is overdue. For these reasons, it's my prediction that Thailand may very soon regret how they have treated the expat community. Edited April 21, 2019 by Gecko123 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post elviajero Posted April 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gecko123 said: It's my prediction that Thailand will very soon be regretting how they have treated its expat community. Don’t bet your house on that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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