FBI arrests leader of U.S. 'patriots' stopping migrants at border

[stevenl]

Just now, 55Jay said:

Said illegals ought to simply march up to an established border crossing and announce their intentions to seek asylum. 

 

Crossing in BF nowhere, up over a fence/barrier, or none at all, then attempting to elude BP, makes things fairly clear.  When they get caught, then they utter the magic word to exploit the system.

They do.

 

But budget cuts, lack of personnel and facilities have lead to an incredible backlog.

 

The present government seems to be asking for illegal immigration, and imo the only reason is to get Trump re-elected.

[Thainesss]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No wall but militias instead and you wholeheartedly support this.

 

The USA is driving as far away from a civilized society as can be. And no, don't blame that on illegal immigration, it is solely down to the USA.

 

I would have much more favored an explicit end to this mess once and for all through the government but the left unequivocally refuses to even acknowledge it. 

 

8 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Rubbish.

Supporting abolishing ICE does not equate to supporting illegal immigration.

 

7 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

You do spout some disingenuous c$@p.

How about this? If you support sanctuary cities and/or abolishing ICE, you are open borders and have no issue at all being part of the problem instead of the solution. 

[farcanell]

17 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

they are good us citizens and in defence against violent illegals the gun usage is correct.

wbr

roobaa01

Yes yes... good citizen that, at least in the case mentioned, happen to be a convicted felon.... ironically illegally detaining un convicted felons.

 

wheres the evidence backing up the claim that these illegal immigrants are violent?

[Thainesss]

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

democrats are not supporting the wall and ripping children from their parents, to put them in cages, whilst supporting the other measures of addressing illegal immigration.

 

First of all, alot of these children are being used as human shields to get favorability for asylum. You want those kids to stay with people that aren't their parents? 

 

Second, the last democrats offer was pocket change and a removal of detention beds. Removing detention beds, so spare me the "other measures of addressing illegal immigration"

 

11 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Meanwhile, can you support your claim about militia groups catching illegal immigrants by the hundreds, with a link?

 

Sure:

 

By the hundreds. 

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

I would have much more favored an explicit end to this mess once and for all through the government but the left unequivocally refuses to even acknowledge it. 

 

 

How about this? If you support sanctuary cities and/or abolishing ICE, you are open borders and have no issue at all being part of the problem instead of the solution. 

Yet more rubbish.... the left explicitly acknowledged the problem and offered a large sum of money which trump declined in favor of continuing with his ill conceived demands for a border wall or nothing.

 

sanctuary cities are all about reducing crime and improving safety, by encouraging illegal migrants  to report crimes without fear of persecution in return, which has absolutely no connection to supporting open borders.

[55Jay]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

They do.

 

But budget cuts, lack of personnel and facilities have lead to an incredible backlog.

 

The present government seems to be asking for illegal immigration, and imo the only reason is to get Trump re-elected.

That's the system and that's fine.  Even junior kids standing watch in the US Military receive basic training on asylum seeker protocol at military and embassy front gates, US ships moored in foreign ports, etc. 

 

The others in the scenario I put forth are simply taking the piss.  They know it.  BP knows it.  Everybody knows it.  Which contributes to the backlog. 

 

Oddly enough, I was just watching a YT vid the other night about these border "patriots" - not the guy in the OP, another group operating in Arizona.  Seem like a mixed bunch of kooks and otherwise balanced people. Granted the camera crew was there, but they corralled a pack of illegals and called BP for transport.   Got no problem with that procedure and outcome, which likely represent the majority of them.  Just tried to find the same video, it's lost in the Google algorithm, washed out by the story in this OP. 

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Yes yes... good citizen that, at least in the case mentioned, happen to be a convicted felon.... ironically illegally detaining un convicted felons.

 

If you are deported and re-enter the USA illegally, you are committing a felony. Being as there were hundreds in this one instance alone, care to speculate on how many are felons? 

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

Yet more rubbish.... the left explicitly acknowledged the problem and offered a large sum of money which trump declined in favor of continuing with his ill conceived demands for a border wall or nothing.

 

sanctuary cities are all about reducing crime and improving safety, by encouraging illegal migrants  to report crimes without fear of persecution in return, which has absolutely no connection to supporting open borders.

 

You have the Dem talking points down pat dont ya? When I read your words I hear Nancy Pelosi's voice. 

 

So let me get this straight, the left wants to abolish ICE, have Sanctuary Cities, give illegal aliens drivers licenses, and do literally everything they can to make them as comfortable as humanly possible all the while shielding them from immigration and deportation, but they don't support illegal immigration because..... Safety ????

 

Now THAT is the real "rubbish". 

[farcanell]

11 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

First of all, alot of these children are being used as human shields to get favorability for asylum. You want those kids to stay with people that aren't their parents? 

 

Second, the last democrats offer was pocket change and a removal of detention beds. Removing detention beds, so spare me the "other measures of addressing illegal immigration"

 

 

Sure:

 

By the hundreds. 

Rubbish... and the link back to this post does not support the claim that there are hundreds of illegals being illegally detained by militia groups, or not that I saw anyway.... perhaps you could be more specific.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/27/kirstjen-nielsen-claims-women-children-were-human-shields-tear-gas-attack-border/

 

The embattled Cabinet secretary also sought to fend off criticism of the severe tactics taken Sunday against women and children who appeared in searing photos from the border by suggesting without evidence that they were being used as “human shields.”

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

That's the system and that's fine.  Even junior kids standing watch in the US Military receive basic training on asylum seeker protocol at military and embassy front gates, US ships moored in foreign ports, etc. 

 

The others in the scenario I put forth are simply taking the piss.  They know it.  BP knows it.  Everybody knows it. 

 

Oddly enough, I was just watching a YT vid the other night about these border "patriots" - not the guy in the OP, another group operating in Arizona.  Seem like a mixed bunch of kooks and otherwise balanced people. Granted the camera crew was there, but they corralled a pack of illegals and called BP for transport.   Got no problem with that procedure and outcome, which likely represent the majority of them.  Just tried to find the same video, it's lost in the Google algorithm, washed out by the story in this OP. 

No, that's not fine.

 

I have a problem with armed militias rounding up people they don't like.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

You have the Dem talking points down pat dont ya? When I read your words I hear Nancy Pelosi's voice. 

 

So let me get this straight, the left wants to abolish ICE, have Sanctuary Cities, give illegal aliens drivers licenses, and do literally everything they can to make them as comfortable as humanly possible all the while shielding them from immigration and deportation, but they don't support illegal immigration because..... Safety ????

 

Now THAT is the real "rubbish". 

No, you don't have that straight, and since you don't listen to people who have a different opinion from yours there is no point in this.

[Thainesss]

21 minutes ago, stevenl said:

But budget cuts, lack of personnel and facilities have lead to an incredible backlog.

 

Can I ask you an honest question? 

 

What should Americans monetary taxpayer burden be? To date we spend hundreds of billions on this system that is so vehemently abused and overburdened, while at the same time have actual citizens in abject poverty that are totally forgotten. We cant, and have no obligation to do both and can easily change the laws, but the left REFUSES and effectively perpetuates this mess. 

 

Seems like to you guys its unlimited and it boggles my mind

[farcanell]

5 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

You have the Dem talking points down pat dont ya? When I read your words I hear Nancy Pelosi's voice. 

 

So let me get this straight, the left wants to abolish ICE, have Sanctuary Cities, give illegal aliens drivers licenses, and do literally everything they can to make them as comfortable as humanly possible all the while shielding them from immigration and deportation, but they don't support illegal immigration because..... Safety ????

 

Now THAT is the real "rubbish". 

No.... they don’t support persecuting illegal immigrants within their jurisdiction because of safety considerations to both illegals within their jurisdiction, and US citizens within that jurisdiction.

 

immigration per say, is nothing to do with it.

[Thainesss]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Rubbish... and the link back to this post does not support the claim that there are hundreds of illegals being illegally detained by militia groups, or not that I saw anyway.... perhaps you could be more specific.

Not "rubbish" at all. 

 

Quote

A militia group near the US-Mexico border detained hundreds of people this week, New Mexico's attorney general told CNN.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/19/us/border-militia-migrants/index.html

[farcanell]

3 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Can I ask you an honest question? 

 

What should Americans monetary taxpayer burden be? To date we spend hundreds of billions on this system that is so vehemently abused and overburdened, while at the same time have actual citizens in abject poverty that are totally forgotten. We cant, and have no obligation to do both and can easily change the laws, but the left REFUSES and effectively perpetuates this mess. 

 

Seems like to you guys its unlimited and it boggles my mind

Perhaps your bipartisan government might be more effective if it acted in a bipartisan manner vs party line politics, and therein solve the problem

[55Jay]

Just now, stevenl said:

No, that's not fine.

 

I have a problem with armed militias rounding up people they don't like.

I think you're mis-characterising that to fit make it more emotive, and deflect from the actual point.  The militias are rounding up illegals because that's what they are.  They could be from anywhere, wouldn't matter.  But it's ok, we're used to the race card being played. 

 

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

You should really stop calling me a liar. I honestly believe that people shouldn't say on the internet what they wouldnt say to someones face. These migrants get coyotes (through CARTELS) and those coyotes figure out the best way for them to get through at any given time. Cartels DO pass illegal drugs, guns, weapons, contraband with illegal aliens. This is a fact. 

 

 

WOW the mental gymnastics your going through here is spectacular. The thread is about militias and illegal aliens and youve dragged me into some border wall drug trafficking argument, and then had the audacity to blame me for it. 

Okay, you're not lying. You're making things up. 

"Cartels DO pass illegal drugs, guns, weapons, contraband with illegal aliens. This is a fact. "

No, it's basically a falsehood. Unless you think it's significant that a tiny percentage of drugs gets over the border that way. Not only does the DEA say that's not true, but as the drug trials of narcotraficantes show, it's not true. No mention of individuals in the service of narcotraficantes carrying that stuff over over border.

Trump claims that you can’t smuggle drugs at ports of entry, which would likely surprise Border Patrol

His former chief of staff John F. Kelly testified before Congress in 2017, when he was the Homeland Security director, saying that most drugs come through ports of entry. Paul A. Beeson of U.S. Customs and Border Protection said points of entry are “the major points of entry for illegal drugs” in testimony that same year. The Drug Enforcement Administration released a report indicating that only a “small percentage” of heroin that crossed the border was seized between ports of entry."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/15/trump-claims-that-you-cant-smuggle-drugs-ports-entry-which-would-likely-surprise-border-patrol/?utm_term=.449972b25e77

 

Here's a bit of Beeson's testimony

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.492239aaa3fc

But if you persist in believing it, that's because your true criterion in deciding these issues is truthiness:

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectualexamination, or facts.[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

If you are deported and re-enter the USA illegally, you are committing a felony. Being as there were hundreds in this one instance alone, care to speculate on how many are felons? 

Unfortunately for those militia members, unless they know a specific felony has been committed they are not entitled to perform a citizens arrest. Invoking the odds is not valid.

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, farcanell said:

No.... they don’t support persecuting illegal immigrants within their jurisdiction because of safety considerations to both illegals within their jurisdiction, and US citizens within that jurisdiction.

 

immigration per say, is nothing to do with it.

 

I find this such an amazingly hypocritical statement its almost infuriating. 

 

So we can have Sanctuary Cities for illegal immigrants that shield them from federal law and opposing jurisdictions but god help you if your an American citizen and break the law. Jurisdictions? No problem. Feds? No problem. "Safety Considerations"? LOL. Illegal immigrant? Oh you poor baby here have sanctuary in my city. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Thainesss said:

 

I find this such an amazingly hypocritical statement its almost infuriating. 

 

So we can have Sanctuary Cities for illegal immigrants that shield them from federal law and opposing jurisdictions but god help you if your an American citizen and break the law. Jurisdictions? No problem. Feds? No problem. "Safety Considerations"? LOL. Illegal immigrant? Oh you poor baby here have sanctuary in my city. 

It was Conservatives on the Supreme Court who ruled that the Federal government cannot suborn the services of state or municipal employees. This was based on the principle of Federalism. And why should being an American shield someone from the consequences of breaking the law? Read up on the 14th Amendment.

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Thainesss said:

Not "rubbish" at all. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/19/us/border-militia-migrants/index.html

Great... now trumpeters are using CNN as a reliable source... I suppose that progress

 

but... from your link...

 

We cannot allow racist and armed vigilantes to kidnap and detain people seeking asylum," the ACLU said in a letter to state authorities denouncing the actions and asking the government to step in. "We urge you to immediately investigate this atrocious and unlawful conduct."

 

ergo.... the report to the Mexican AG is unverified and the AG is requesting an investigation into the matter, wherein there is no supporting evidence or comment from BP to verify the claims made

[Thainesss]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Unfortunately for those militia members, unless they know a specific felony has been committed they are not entitled to perform a citizens arrest. Invoking the odds is not valid.

 

I asked you this before but you went and spent over an hour trying to research a rebuttal which is nothing more in a lesson in deflection and denial. 

 

If what the militia members did was so "unfortunate" for them, why weren't they arrested? 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Thainesss said:

 

I asked you this before but you went and spent over an hour trying to research a rebuttal which is nothing more in a lesson in deflection and denial. 

 

If what the militia members did was so "unfortunate" for them, why weren't they arrested? 

Because enforcement authorities can exercise discretion.

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It was Conservatives on the Supreme Court who ruled that the Federal government cannot suborn the services of state or municipal employees. This was based on the principle of Federalism. And why should being an American shield someone from the consequences of breaking the law? Read up on the 14th Amendment.

 

Haha, so its conservatives fault that americans can be screwed by the gov and illegal immigrants can get sanctuary from the gov. 

 

Gawd dang the absurdity of that statement. 

 

2 minutes ago, farcanell said:

ACLU said

 

????

 

[farcanell]

6 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

I find this such an amazingly hypocritical statement its almost infuriating. 

 

So we can have Sanctuary Cities for illegal immigrants that shield them from federal law and opposing jurisdictions but god help you if your an American citizen and break the law. Jurisdictions? No problem. Feds? No problem. "Safety Considerations"? LOL. Illegal immigrant? Oh you poor baby here have sanctuary in my city. 

Sanctuary cities do not support illegals who break the law... they persecute them for all but the heinous crime of entering illegally.

[55Jay]

Just now, farcanell said:

Perhaps your bipartisan government might be more effective if it acted in a bipartisan manner vs party line politics, and therein solve the problem

That's right, it's like smashing your head against the wall thinking about it.  As far as illegal immigration goes, it's been going on for so long, it's just normal - a convenient football to toss around for a while during a political campaign, then forgotten.

 

I'll say one thing, Trump, as reprehensible a figure as he is, has really stirred the pot and keeps it stirred.  Not all in a good or even effective way, but he's chucking necessary spears and saying things that need to be said, for a long time.  He's terrible at it, but that doesn't make what he's bangin' on about wrong.  It's not.   

 

I still hold the Aussies up in high regard for finally ignoring the wailers and race card players. They grew a spine, made a decision to act and did, without apology.  Can't always be a people pleasing softie.  If you let people take the piss out of you, they will.  So, on'ya, Oz!

[Thainesss]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because enforcement authorities can exercise discretion.

 

And why would they do that? If they are such racist horrible people that clearly and publicly broke the law they why did they "exercise discretion"?

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Haha, so its conservatives fault that americans can be screwed by the gov and illegal immigrants can get sanctuary from the gov. 

 

Gawd dang the absurdity of that statement. 

 

 

????

 

It was the Conservative justices who ruled that the federal government cannot suborn state or municipal employees to perform for them. If that's your idea of americans being screwed by the government, so be it. But you clear don't have a clear about Conservative legal jurisprudence and the doctrine of Federalism.

[bristolboy]

Just now, Thainesss said:

 

And why would they do that? If they are such racist horrible people that clearly and publicly broke the law they why did they "exercise discretion"?

Why are you so eager to display your ignorance of how law enforcement works? Possibily because of whatever the alleged views of these people, the law enforcement agents didn't think it was worth the bother. Now, if these people start killing undocument aliens, I suspect law enforcement won't be nearly so lenient.

[Thainesss]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Sanctuary cities do not support illegals who break the law... they persecute them for all but the heinous crime of entering illegally.

 

And refuse to report them to other jurisdictions and, which is particularly infuriating, refuses to acknowledge requests from other jurisdictions... 

 

If youre a citizen though? 

 

There isnt any way to squirm out of this without putting the "safety" of illegal immigrants over the safety of citizens.