No foreign bank transaction code required by Korat immigration

[Chongalulu]

While doing my 90 day report Friday having extended my retirement visa by BE income letter in January I asked an IO at Korat about monthly income method. I showed her an example of my fx company paperwork and a print out of Kasikorn bank statement which designated the transaction "Domestic Transfer " . I explained why this happens (the intermediary being Bangkok bank). She appeared to fully understand and was clear that they were not concerned with any code/designation and are happy simply with bank statements showing 65k going in each month. I did reiterate to ensure no misunderstanding to which she only added there must be 12 months (correct since I renewed in January)and I could take it out straight away. This is encouraging and Korat is one of the better offices ,yet I remain intrinsically concerned as to what would really happen when the time came next January should one have relied upon this. 

[thequietman]

Interesting!

 

Perhaps some back tracking OR as you say, trying to do it next year following what she said, could be problematic.

 

There are no consistent carved in stone rules, so everyone has to stay on tender hooks. It must be frustrating for those on the income method. ????

[Briggsy]

Wait till you actually try and get the extension. You may find a different answer or you may not. Easy for some IO to just say, "Yes, yes" to get you to shut up and go away.

 

As a technique, when dealing with non-native speakers of English, don't ask them yes/no questions. You are able to gauge more effectively how much they really know. "Yes, yes," could mean anything.

 

But thanks for the report.

[thequietman]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Wait till you actually try and get the extension. You may find a different answer or you may not. Easy for some IO to just say, "Yes, yes" to get you to shut up and go away.

 

As a technique, when dealing with non-native speakers of English, don't ask them yes/no questions. You are able to gauge more effectively how much they really know. "Yes, yes," could mean anything.

 

But thanks for the report.

That's very true.

 

I have learned that YES can mean No and also Possibly Maybe , but probably, NOT.

 

Thai's say Yes, when they mean No, all the time. They don't want you to lose face, so they will say Yes, when they actually mean No.

 

It is so confusing and frustrating and I still don't understand it after 15 years here. ????

[Thailand Outcast]

Your OP raises a couple of points of interest.

 

Firstly, as you allude to, can this information be relied upon?  As another member has said, in the future you may have some problems.

 

Also, not just in your case, but in general, what happens should you ever move away from Korat?  You may move to an area where the immigration office in that area implements different interpretations of the rules. In any case, they could change their interpretation next week.

 

It's hard to know where one stands in this crazy visa system, not only at the time of application, but 90 days from now, and 12 months from now. 

 

   

 

 

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

That's very true.

 

I have learned that YES can mean No and also Possibly Maybe , but probably, NOT. 

 

Thai's say Yes, when they mean No, all the time. They don't want you to lose face, so they will say Yes, when they actually mean No.

 

It is so confusing and frustrating and I still don't understand it after 15 years here. ????

You're right.

 

But I would add that Thais say, "Yes," most often when they understand just one or two words in the sentence that they have recognised, and then have constructed their own meaning around that. They then answer, "Yes," to their own question!

 

So in this particular example the IO may have understood "foreign transfer" but not all the rest about what transaction code is required and then said, "Yes, yes," as a foreign transfer method does exist.

 

As you point out, if the OP had asked what transaction code is required to qualify for the foreign transfer option for a retirement extension, the response may very well have been the blank face. That is the standard response for 'I know it is not a yes/no question but I don't understand what was asked."

[jesimps]

18 hours ago, thequietman said:

Interesting!

 

Perhaps some back tracking OR as you say, trying to do it next year following what she said, could be problematic.

 

There are no consistent carved in stone rules, so everyone has to stay on tender hooks. It must be frustrating for those on the income method. ????

This is what I find frustrating reading the posts from the rosey specs brigade on here wobbling on about expats struggling to meet the financial demands of the new system. In most cases people are ok with the financial side of things, it's the uncertainty when we present ourselves at immigration, whether or not our proof is going to be accepted or not. If not, by then in many cases it'll be too late to put things right.

[mikosan]

I am one who uses the income method when I apply for my extension for the purposes of retirement and always have done, although previously using an income letter from my embassy.  For many years I have tended to bring in in excess of 65000 baht per month in any case, but as soon as there was a suggestion that this might be a prerequisite, around October last year, I have made sure it was always over the 65000 mark.  This year I am due to extend towards the end of August and things may be clearer by then.  However, as it stands at the moment, I intend to present myself at immigration in Hua Hin with all the usual documentation, plus bank statements from Kasikorn bank for a year and my Transferwise receipts and see how it goes.  I shall make sure I renew at the soonest possible moment, so that I have the necessary time to obtain any further documentation and I will make sure I take my Thai girlfriend and her very cute and smiley 6 year old daughter, who we look after together, with me. As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat and we all know how Thais are with children!

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, mikosan said:

I am one who uses the income method when I apply for my extension for the purposes of retirement and always have done, although previously using an income letter from my embassy.  For many years I have tended to bring in in excess of 65000 baht per month in any case, but as soon as there was a suggestion that this might be a prerequisite, around October last year, I have made sure it was always over the 65000 mark.  This year I am due to extend towards the end of August and things may be clearer by then.  However, as it stands at the moment, I intend to present myself at immigration in Hua Hin with all the usual documentation, plus bank statements from Kasikorn bank for a year and my Transferwise receipts and see how it goes.  I shall make sure I renew at the soonest possible moment, so that I have the necessary time to obtain any further documentation and I will make sure I take my Thai girlfriend and her very cute and smiley 6 year old daughter, who we look after together, with me. As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat and we all know how Thais are with children!

Your (and many others) problem will be that you will have relied upon the supporting paperwork of transferwise to verify foreign transfer when your Kasikorn statement will say domestic. You are expecting the IO to examine up to 12 sets of paperwork. Others have reported IOs willing to accept only bank statements which isolate designated foreign transfers because anything else is too complicated for them to grasp.Should That be the case when you actually come to do your extension there is no other paperwork you can subsequently produce to overcome that requirement,you will have to leave the country to reapply I understand.

As the OP my plan B is to revert to marriage visa and ensure 400k in my account 2 months before if I deem at that cut off point that the assurances I was given cannot be relied upon. I at least have that luxury.

[Chongalulu]

23 hours ago, Briggsy said:

You're right.

 

But I would add that Thais say, "Yes," most often when they understand just one or two words in the sentence that they have recognised, and then have constructed their own meaning around that. They then answer, "Yes," to their own question!

 

So in this particular example the IO may have understood "foreign transfer" but not all the rest about what transaction code is required and then said, "Yes, yes," as a foreign transfer method does exist.

 

As you point out, if the OP had asked what transaction code is required to qualify for the foreign transfer option for a retirement extension, the response may very well have been the blank face. That is the standard response for 'I know it is not a yes/no question but I don't understand what was asked."

A valid assessment. Unfortunately different banks have different codes so it can’t be reasonably expected for the IO to know them so the blank face should be expected. Also my bank book has a code against the transaction which isn’t even in the list in the passbook and only the statement says domestic transfer! My feeling is that for the most part IOs will need something as close as possible in simplicity to the income letter,hence a statement containing ONLY foreign transactions.Only  As this unfolds over the next few months will the picture become clearer - and I don’t mean clear!- so we remain in a kind of limbo.

[Longcut]

Let's cut to the chase. Is it that Thai immigration is not that fluent in English or other languages? Or are they just playing dumb to avoid any extra work?

[theboogeyman]

It's true Korat Immigration is very helpful I know because I live in Korat to and they're awesome.  Korat Immigration is by the book though which is good because you always know what to expect there.  But Korat Immigration will not deviate from the rules they stick to the rules and they're by the book.  But they are also VERY FRIENDLY AND VERY HELPFUL.  

 

What the OP is posting is no surprise at all Korat Immigration has always been very helpful, friendly, but also exactly by the book which is actually also a very good thing because you know that they're not going to make up their own rules they never do.  They're by the book, helpful, and, always very friendly.  I think Korat Immigration is probably the best in Thailand based on everyone else's complaints about other immigration offices.  I love Korat and I wouldn't want to live in any other city but I do like to visit as much of Thailand as I can but I would only want to live in Korat nowhere else.  

[gk10002000]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 12:34 AM, thequietman said:

That's very true.

 

I have learned that YES can mean No and also Possibly Maybe , but probably, NOT.

 

Thai's say Yes, when they mean No, all the time. They don't want you to lose face, so they will say Yes, when they actually mean No.

 

It is so confusing and frustrating and I still don't understand it after 15 years here. ????

Same same but different as the famous Thai T-shirt says

[thequietman]

9 hours ago, theboogeyman said:

It's true Korat Immigration is very helpful I know because I live in Korat to and they're awesome.  Korat Immigration is by the book though which is good because you always know what to expect there.  But Korat Immigration will not deviate from the rules they stick to the rules and they're by the book.  But they are also VERY FRIENDLY AND VERY HELPFUL.  

 

What the OP is posting is no surprise at all Korat Immigration has always been very helpful, friendly, but also exactly by the book which is actually also a very good thing because you know that they're not going to make up their own rules they never do.  They're by the book, helpful, and, always very friendly.  I think Korat Immigration is probably the best in Thailand based on everyone else's complaints about other immigration offices.  I love Korat and I wouldn't want to live in any other city but I do like to visit as much of Thailand as I can but I would only want to live in Korat nowhere else.  

Tell the other immigration officers there that we all say Hi and thank them for their service. ????

[mtls2005]

Interesting news.

 

At Chaeng Watthana I think my ext/stay-ret gets reviewed by four (4) levels of rank, including the initial IO. On my first est/stay application, the first three levels approved it, after having paid, received a receipt and had the stamp applied in my passport. This is when you used to meet individually with each subsequent officer back in the "L" area cubicles (now this review is handled somewhat opaquely, while intern/trainees ferry your passport back out to you in the waiting area).

 

Then the fourth level officer proceeded to deny my ext, after which my money was refunded and the stamp red-lined. I had to employ legal assistance (3,000 THB all in) who wrote a letter and accompanied me to CW, where this fourth level officer granted my extension. I was extending a Non-Imm B (investment), so there was some concern on her part that I was employed here, I guess.

 

My somewhat long-winded response is simply meant to say that what one IO says today may not reflect reality, especially months from now in what is a transition period regarding financial requirements and proof.

 

 

[Sheryl]

What they told you does nto accord with the Police Order which specifically says bank statement showing 65k/month from abroad.

 

Even if this Imm office initially allows what you describe, there is good chance that sooner or later they will be told otherwise. Don't count on it.

 

If you are using Transferwise see the many threads on this issue -- it i possible for them to "tag" your transfers so that they come in to Kasikorn Bank directly, solving the problem.

 

You should also get the "Credit Advice" for each transfer from Kasikorn Bank and see what that says as it may show the origin abroad (i.e. the full route the money took starting from abroad to Bangkok Bank and then onward to Kasikorn). Assuming it shows this, should be possible to present that to Kasikorn and have them include the information in the letter the provide. Credit Advices more than 3 months old have to be gotten from the head office and there will be I think a 100baht charge (head office can fax them to the local branch for you to pick up -- call their call center). . Those less than 3 months old can be gotten from branch and are free.

 

 

[theoldgit]

23 hours ago, mikosan said:

However, as it stands at the moment, I intend to present myself at immigration in Hua Hin with all the usual documentation, plus bank statements from Kasikorn bank for a year and my Transferwise receipts and see how it goes.  I shall make sure I renew at the soonest possible moment, so that I have the necessary time to obtain any further documentation and I will make sure I take my Thai girlfriend and her very cute and smiley 6 year old daughter, who we look after together, with me. As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat and we all know how Thais are with children!

I spoke to Kasikorn yesterday and the guy I spoke to, who understood the issue perfectly, advised me that with the "Dummy Branch" and "MCL" codes they will not be able to issue a letter confirming that the funds have come from overseas, he added that he gets numerous calls on this subject.
I was also considering using my Transferwise receipts and hoping the IO would marry them up against my Kasikorn statements, but I suspect they wouldn't be inclined to do so.
Transferwise have told me that they're aware of the issue and are in discussion with Thai bank and the Authorities to try and get it resolved, not sure if that's the case or a stock answer.
I renewed my extension earlier this month using my UK Embassy letter, so I now need to start my twelve months of deposits.
There are a number of options available to me, having one of my pensions paid here, hoping Transferwise will work, opening an account with Bangkok Bank here and in London, or calling my bank, Santander, in the IoM every month and making the transfer, you cannot transfer Sterling via their online portal, or using an agent, which I'm not inclined to do.
My thinking is that I'll be calling the IoM every month, it'll cost more, the cost of the call, the higher transfer cost, worse exchange rate, the cost of their middleman bank and the receiving fee by the Kasikorn.
My back of a fag packet calculation indicates that it will cost me an extra 28,000 Baht a year, just to satisfy an IO that funds I've been sending here for the last 12 years do actually originate from overseas, I suspect he/she will do little more than glance at the letter.
Why do they have to make things so difficult?

[theoldgit]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If you are using Transferwise see the many threads on this issue -- it i possible for them to "tag" your transfers so that they come in to Kasikorn Bank directly, solving the problem.

 

You should also get the "Credit Advice" for each transfer from Kasikorn Bank and see what that says as it may show the origin abroad (i.e. the full route the money took starting from abroad to Bangkok Bank and then onward to Kasikorn). Assuming it shows this, should be possible to present that to Kasikorn and have them include the information in the letter the provide. 

I spoke to TW last week and they routed the funds into KK via BKK Bank, however it still showed as a Dummy Branch Deposit.

 

The guy I spoke to yesterday at KK said that as well as not being able to produce a letter confirming the funds came from abroad, he also said that a Credit Advice with the money being received from Bangkok Bank wouldn't show as a deposit from overseas.

[SEtonal]

18 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

My back of a fag packet calculation indicates that it will cost me an extra 28,000 Baht a year, just to satisfy an IO that funds I've been sending here for the last 12 years do actually originate from overseas, I suspect he/she will do little more than glance at the letter.

28,000 baht is about what is costs to get a "no proof of funds" extension through a visa agent.

[theoldgit]

28,000 baht is about what is costs to get a "no proof of funds" extension through a visa agent.

Indeed, I mentioned using an agent was an option, so frustrating when I have a paper trail indicating regular deposits, just not in the form they require.

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I spoke to TW last week and they routed the funds into KK via BKK Bank, however it still showed as a Dummy Branch Deposit.

 

The guy I spoke to yesterday at KK said that as well as not being able to produce a letter confirming the funds came from abroad, he also said that a Credit Advice with the money being received from Bangkok Bank wouldn't show as a deposit from overseas.

 

It will always show as Dummy Branch deposit if it came through a different Thai bank first. Solution is to get it sent to Kasikorn to begin with, TW does work with Kasikorn as well as with BBL.

 

On the second point that is what I used to think but another poster said that the Credit Advice would have to show the initial origin in order to comply with Anti-Money laundering rules....which does seem to make sense.  I know that for SWIFT transfers that use a correspondent bank, the Credit Advice shows the originating bank as well as the one the money passed through.

 

Rather thn take the word of the person you spoke to I suggest you get the actual Credit Advice for your most recent transfer and see what it shows. IF it shows an international point of origin Kasikorn will accept it. If it does NOT next step would be to try to get the Credit Advice of Bangkok Bank for the same transfer, that has to show it for sure. I have no experinece of getting Credit Advices for transfers to a bank that I did not have an account at so can't say how feasible. But for sure get the Kasikorn Bank Credit Advice first.

 

You should be getting Credit Advices routinely anyhow, useful in case you ever need to send the money back out of the country or otherwise establish where your funds came from.

[SEtonal]

35 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I spoke to TW last week and they routed the funds into KK via BKK Bank, however it still showed as a Dummy Branch Deposit.

 

The guy I spoke to yesterday at KK said that as well as not being able to produce a letter confirming the funds came from abroad, he also said that a Credit Advice with the money being received from Bangkok Bank wouldn't show as a deposit from overseas.

There is a conversation in the link between Tanoshi and Pib on "tagging" or the "tag" method.  "Tagging" a transfer gets it sent directly to one of the three banks of your choice that TW uses in Thailand -- in your case Kasikorn, and the tagged transfer will show up at Kasikorn as an foreign transfer because it did not go through Bangkok Bank but went directly to Kasikorn.  The second link suggest that you can ask to always have your bank of choice, Kasikorn, tagged as a recipient/intermediary bank.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1090197-switching-from-bank-method-to-income-method/page/2/

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1095431-permission-to-stay-using-monthly-payments/?tab=comments#comment-14054333

 

[Sheryl]

P.S. See

for explanation of how to choose which bank  TW transfer initially comes into.

[riclag]

On 4/21/2019 at 2:39 PM, Thailand Outcast said:

Your OP raises a couple of points of interest.

 

Firstly, as you allude to, can this information be relied upon?  As another member has said, in the future you may have some problems.

 

Also, not just in your case, but in general, what happens should you ever move away from Korat?  You may move to an area where the immigration office in that area implements different interpretations of the rules. In any case, they could change their interpretation next week.

 

It's hard to know where one stands in this crazy visa system, not only at the time of application, but 90 days from now, and 12 months from now. 

 

   

 

 

Best to put inquires first before buying a house or deciding to live in another province. Reminds me of the Banking system here! Every province is is different but the banks have the same name

[Thailand Outcast]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Best to put inquires first before buying a house or deciding to live in another province. Reminds me of the Banking system here! Every province is is different but the banks have the same name

Mmmm.  I wonder if some people will now move closer to a land boarder, or go "immigration office shopping" and move because of an easier visa experience. 

 

People using tourist visas are certainly "boarder shopping" now.