Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats?

[gk10002000]

I hate the current retiree visa situation, but I would say that is a reason to not retire to Thailand.  If one is fully funded and willing to deposit the 800K baht or one is willing to do the constant monthly transfers, get bank book updates, and all the constant reporting etc.. then the rest of Thailand and reasons to retire there haven't changed much.  Who knows, maybe nonsensical 90 day reporting will go away and 180 day or just yearly reporting will take over.  I guess it all depends on how the expat community handles the situation.  If retires drop vy 50% well, the economics may weigh in and expats will get some relief

[Jingthing]

Just now, Orton Rd said:

I would no longer recommend Thailand for a holiday never mind retiring here

I wouldn't go that far but if I do eventually leave the region I doubt I would ever come back even for a holiday. 

[totally thaied up]

18 minutes ago, CaptainJack said:

grew tired of everyone telling me how I could get an affordable policy,

This is the part that worries me. To be 70, have to pay huge premiums and have no real cover for priors. How can someone planning 30 years of life know they can cover this. I doubt that not many put this requirement into their retirement plans and once locked into Thailand, understand later that they made a mistake.

[marcusarelus]

Lets take a dispassionate look at the situation.  The crash of the Pound vs the Baht 3 years ago was the major reason for expats leaving. 

 

Lately the 4 large embassies who wanted to work less really messed up their citizens who were lying on their extension applications. 

 

The seasoning of deposits for an extra few months has effected almost no one and is easily avoided by getting a 2 year visa at home or changing to an income method. 

 

Why all the negative threads?  I can only guess at the motive. 

[55Jay]

Oddly enough though, I was just musing about this last night.  That all this hub bub about Immigration will bleed into the internet blogs/magazines.  Thailand's self-inflicted gun shot wounds serve to knock them off the TOP 10 CHEAPEST  PLACES TO RETIRE OVERSEAS list. 

 

And then I thought they don't actually care.  In fact, it's a dubious distinction, and one they would rather be shot of.  All they had to do was fiddle with the requirements, introduce a bit more stupid nonsense into the procedures, and Bob's Ur Uncle.

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Lately the 4 large embassies who wanted to work less really messed up their citizens who were lying on their extension applications. 

Wasn't it just the US where you could actually just lie? Others checked to a degree, but not to the level required by Thai immigration?

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

As usual you guys needs to have a reality check, most of you it seems. The thread should indicate that you are thinking about expats from the 4 primtive one countries, the ones without income-letters, they are; Denmark, UK, Australia and USA. The rest of ALL OF US as a majority are just fine...... And can look forward to many fine years here in Thailand in the future hopefully......

 

glegolo

Wait a minute.  Are you saying that only those four countries are the ones that are not doing income letters?  Does that mean Thailand is accepting income letters from many other embassies/countries?  If so, don't you think the Thais will start not accepting those and demanding similar monthly transfers as "proof" of income that they are now mandating? 

 

   It comes down to what is actually driving the less use of income letters?  Is it the Thais not believing the letters, regardless of the country?  If so, how long before all such affirmations are denied?

[BritManToo]

Thailand is a nasty vicious dangerous country for white folk, I wouldn't even recommend it for a two week holiday. 

The neighbouring countries are almost all more welcoming and safer these days.

 

If it weren't for my house and son, I wouldn't be here either.

[beachproperty]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Not without health insurance. Thats the first thing and if you think 800k is expensive just wait until your stroke bill after 2 weeks in ICU !

Not sure how in touch with reality you are ......but I recently had a stroke and spent only 3 days in ICU and 3 days in a private room...cost=73,000 Baht AND that was at Bangkok Hospital

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Wait a minute.  Are you saying that only those four countries are the ones that are not doing income letters?  Does that mean Thailand is accepting income letters from many other embassies/countries?  If so, don't you think the Thais will start not accepting those and demanding similar monthly transfers as "proof" of income that they are now mandating? 

 

   It comes down to what is actually driving the less use of income letters?  Is it the Thais not believing the letters, regardless of the country?  If so, how long before all such affirmations are denied?

No.  It was not the Thai's idea it was the lazy 4 embassies.

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thailand is a nasty vicious dangerous country for white folk, I wouldn't even recommend it for a two week holiday. 

The neighbouring countries are almost all more welcoming and safer these days.

 

If it weren't for my house and son, I wouldn't be here either.

I would not go that far but it is certainly not a destination for seasteaders.

[gk10002000]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

No.  It was not the Thai's idea it was the lazy 4 embassies.

ok.   But it seems like the idea may spread and the thais may like the idea of the constant transfers, fees, or inducing people to use the cash method and tie up more loose cash in Thailand.etc.

[55Jay]

3 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Wait a minute.  Are you saying that only those four countries are the ones that are not doing income letters?  Does that mean Thailand is accepting income letters from many other embassies/countries?  If so, don't you think the Thais will start not accepting those and demanding similar monthly transfers as "proof" of income that they are now mandating? 

 

   It comes down to what is actually driving the less use of income letters?  Is it the Thais not believing the letters, regardless of the country?  If so, how long before all such affirmations are denied?

No, Glegelo is a constant Income Affidavit goon.  Any thread about them, he's among the first to show up and regurgitate his usual krap.  So he railed about the Yanks as Liars for years.  Now that they, and a few other Embassies, have withdrawn from the fray, which seems to be what he wanted to see all along..... now he calls them Primitive.  A knob of the highest order.

[farcanell]

I would most definitely recommend it to one and all... right up until I get my property sold.... then, not so much. ????

[mokwit]

Just now, gk10002000 said:

ok.   But it seems like the idea may spread and the thais may like the idea of the constant transfers, fees, or inducing people to use the cash method and tie up more loose cash in Thailand.etc.

Yes, the original legislation was poorly thought out - they assumed that retirees would transfer their required money to Thailand without legislating that.

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it weren't for my house and son, I wouldn't be here either

If it wasn't for my wife, the still easy 1 year stay conditions, the weather, the cheap rent, the easiness of finding European products, 

I wouldn't be here. 

 

In Flanders one has to pay 4 month rent(3 months guarantee, 1 month rent) in advance now before receiving the apartment keys. 

[Vacuum]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it weren't for my house and son, I wouldn't be here either.

1: It's not 'your house'.

2: What's hindering you to take your son elsewhere?

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

1: It's not 'your house'.

2: What's hindering you to take your son elsewhere?

1. The Amphur divorce settlement says it's my house, but in reality 60% of it still belongs to SCB.

2. My son gets free education, free health care, and loves seeing his mom, grandmom and older sister, who am I to part them?

[glegolo]

18 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Wait a minute.  Are you saying that only those four countries are the ones that are not doing income letters?  Does that mean Thailand is accepting income letters from many other embassies/countries?  If so, don't you think the Thais will start not accepting those and demanding similar monthly transfers as "proof" of income that they are now mandating? 

 

   It comes down to what is actually driving the less use of income letters?  Is it the Thais not believing the letters, regardless of the country?  If so, how long before all such affirmations are denied?

FROM ALL OTHER COUNTRIES.....  The problem that started the whole thing was the frequent obvious lying part on income-letters....  All these guys more or less now, have to face the consequenses and leave Thailand due to lack of income.....

 

glegolo

[Thaidream]

There is still many things about Thailand that are great= but I would not recommend that anyone retire here unless they were very wealthy- large  monthly income stream plus  at least one million US Dollars/Pounds in a bank (not a Thai Bank) 

 

The real problem in Thailand is the chaotic Immigration system that operates.  The actual Visa structure has a visa type for  a variety of people who may want to stay in Thailand.  The  requirements for the O-A; O-X and O Visa are clearly spelled out at the Embassies in one's home country.  You give the Embassy the documentation and the Visa is issued.

 

The problem comes in when one needs to get their extension of stay after the initial  permission to stay expires.  The O X Visa  gives an applicant 5 years of Visa but the requirements are onerous-  3 Million Baht in a Thai Bank plus  Health Insurance can only be bought from a Thai provider.  One still has to report to Immigration each year to make sure the requirements are still being met-  Bank Book; Bank Letter plus letter from Thai Insurance Company.  If you fail to keep the requirements up to date- your visa becomes void  but if you meet the requirements of the  extension based upon marriage or the normal retirement scheme- you can change to that but that requires another set of documentation.

Then there is the issue of Health Insurance- why would a retiree want to purchase health insurance from the list of Thai companies which provide  poor coverage at high prices.

 

Many people have their own Health Insurance from their country of Origin. Some of us have Worldwide Healthcare under the  US Veterans Admin or Retired Military Tricare.   Others cannot purchase healthcare due to not being covered.  The Malaysia Long stay program allows  a waiver on Health care if it cannot be found.

 

Can you as a retiree imagine walking into  CM Immigration; Phuket; CW; Jomtien etc etc and expecting that you will get the same treatment with the same requirements at each Immigration Office. We know it isn't happening but a new retiree to Thailand would have the expectation that each office operate the same.

 

Instead of getting better- we see constant reports of IO's not understanding their own regulations and requirements; asking for documents that are not spelled out in the Immigration Act; refusing applications  that have the proper paperwork but the IO doesn't want to accept it.

 

Those of us who have been here  for several years manage to muddle through  each year but with the new changes and not knowing if our own application will need more documentation- it has become stressful   I just can't imagine a newly retired person who has worked hard for decades- wanting to go through some of this nonsense when there are so many other destinations that do not have this type of bureaucracy

 

When a person retires- they want to enjoy the rest of their life- not be a prisoner to an Immigration system in which one has to track their income steam each month; make sure that bank book or credit advice is up to date; make sure you don't go one baht under 800K for a certain period; make sure you report to Immigration on time every 3 months or at another time to check you adherence to money in the bank; watch the calendar to top your money up again. 

So- to answer the question- I would recommend someone retire in another country more friendly to retirement.  Unfortunately- It is not Thailand.

[marcusarelus]

22 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

ok.   But it seems like the idea may spread and the thais may like the idea of the constant transfers, fees, or inducing people to use the cash method and tie up more loose cash in Thailand.etc.

No they don't.  There still exists the income method only you don't have to go to the embassy to get a letter only your local bank or go home and get a 2 year visa with no money in a Thai bank.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There is still many things about Thailand that are great= but I would not recommend that anyone retire here unless they were very wealthy- large  monthly income stream plus  at least one million US Dollars/Pounds in a bank (not a Thai Bank) 

 

The real problem in Thailand is the chaotic Immigration system that operates.  The actual Visa structure has a visa type for  a variety of people who may want to stay in Thailand.  The  requirements for the O-A; O-X and O Visa are clearly spelled out at the Embassies in one's home country.  You give the Embassy the documentation and the Visa is issued.

 

The problem comes in when one needs to get their extension of stay after the initial  permission to stay expires.  The O X Visa  gives an applicant 5 years of Visa but the requirements are onerous-  3 Million Baht in a Thai Bank plus  Health Insurance can only be bought from a Thai provider.  One still has to report to Immigration each year to make sure the requirements are still being met-  Bank Book; Bank Letter plus letter from Thai Insurance Company.  If you fail to keep the requirements up to date- your visa becomes void  but if you meet the requirements of the  extension based upon marriage or the normal retirement scheme- you can change to that but that requires another set of documentation.

Then there is the issue of Health Insurance- why would a retiree want to purchase health insurance from the list of Thai companies which provide  poor coverage at high prices.

 

Many people have their own Health Insurance from their country of Origin. Some of us have Worldwide Healthcare under the  US Veterans Admin or Retired Military Tricare.   Others cannot purchase healthcare due to not being covered.  The Malaysia Long stay program allows  a waiver on Health care if it cannot be found.

 

Can you as a retiree imagine walking into  CM Immigration; Phuket; CW; Jomtien etc etc and expecting that you will get the same treatment with the same requirements at each Immigration Office. We know it isn't happening but a new retiree to Thailand would have the expectation that each office operate the same.

 

Instead of getting better- we see constant reports of IO's not understanding their own regulations and requirements; asking for documents that are not spelled out in the Immigration Act; refusing applications  that have the proper paperwork but the IO doesn't want to accept it.

 

Those of us who have been here  for several years manage to muddle through  each year but with the new changes and not knowing if our own application will need more documentation- it has become stressful   I just can't imagine a newly retired person who has worked hard for decades- wanting to go through some of this nonsense when there are so many other destinations that do not have this type of bureaucracy

 

When a person retires- they want to enjoy the rest of their life- not be a prisoner to an Immigration system in which one has to track their income steam each month; make sure that bank book or credit advice is up to date; make sure you don't go one baht under 800K for a certain period; make sure you report to Immigration on time every 3 months or at another time to check you adherence to money in the bank; watch the calendar to top your money up again. 

So- to answer the question- I would recommend someone retire in another country more friendly to retirement.  Unfortunately- It is not Thailand.

If it was a requirement to post the location of every critical immigration information post we could move to the best office and let the nutters kill tourism in their location. 

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

f it was a requirement to post the location of every critical immigration information post we could move to the best office and let the nutters kill tourism in their location. 

Every Immigration office should operate the same as every other office and simply follow the Police Order.  Some offices  ask for information/documentation that are not part of the Immigration Act nor Police Order . In some offices it varies from which IO you get and on what day of the week you apply.

 

The majority of people will follow the rules as long as they know what the rules are and that they are  executed in a fair and reasonable manner.

 

[Vacuum]

13 minutes ago, glegolo said:

All these guys more or less now, have to face the consequenses and leave Thailand due to lack of income

No they don't. They can use the now so popular agents  to do this for them (which is a part of the plan).

[Kasane]

There are no visa changes. Only stricter implementation of the current laws. Farangs who were falsifying their income through affidavits from their Embassies are finding it difficult to extend their stay. If retirees have the required income and/or bank balance then Thailand is a great place to live. 

Cost to build home 1/3 to what it cost me in States. Medical bills are minimal, whereas I was always in fear of going bankrupt due to medical emergency in the States, even though on Medicare. Water bill per month is $1. Electric bill is $20/mo. Can eat reasonably well in under $10/day. Have more independence, freedom, and peaceful existence. Can tend to my farm, grow what I want, and eat organic. Have escaped my loneliness in States. Found warm companionship. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Every Immigration office should operate the same as every other office and simply follow the Police Order.  Some offices  ask for information/documentation that are not part of the Immigration Act nor Police Order . In some offices it varies from which IO you get and on what day of the week you apply.

 

The majority of people will follow the rules as long as they know what the rules are and that they are  executed in a fair and reasonable manner.

 

In a perfect Thailand but until then the only defense against rampant agen-titis is reporting locations so we can individually combat the eccentricities of each location.  Of course if you want to promote agen-titus..........

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Kasane said:

There are no visa changes. Only stricter implementation of the current laws. Farangs who were falsifying their income through affidavits from their Embassies are finding it difficult to extend their stay. If retirees have the required income and/or bank balance then Thailand is a great place to live. 

There are changes-  I used to be able to get a letter from the US Embassy - swear under Oath it was correct and go to Immigration with no issues.  I never lied on my Income Letter and always had back up proof. Everyone I know was the same.

 

When I needed funds- I simply went to a Thai ATM and took out what I needed- usually  around 75,000 Baht per month.  

 

Now, I have to have a monthly transfer from the US to my Thai Bank account -each month- approx $40 fee- even if I don't need 65K. I have to make sure I do this each month and have my  credit advice showing a foreign transfer and updated bank books.   I could easily take 65K out of my US bank and deposit it into my Thai bank-  no can do says- Thai Imm- has to be a transfer.   Why? At age 70- I doubt  I am going to work illegally in Thailand at minimum wage.

 

Then there is the silly nonsense about money in the bank- 800K  deposit 2 months  prior to application;  keep it in bank 3 months after approval; then can take out 400K untill time to  put in another 400K to make it 800K again.  Report to Immigration in the interim to make sure I didn't drop below the amount.

 

However, I can make all the aggravation go away by paying an agent to do everything for me- All I have to do is give him my passport- 

 

The  4 Embassies have done a huge disservice to their citizens -  all they had to do is  make some cosmetic changes- actually spend a few seconds looking at some documentation ; have the applicant swear an Oath of honesty and Thai Immigration would still accept these letters.

 

I can agree that if one is in the right location in Thailand and living off the land- it can be a pleasant experience. Never had an issue with a Thai person.

 

It is the inconsistent bureaucracy and the whims of  Officials that do not follow the law that are causing issues.

[Thaidream]

18 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

n a perfect Thailand but until then the only defense against rampant agen-titis is reporting locations so we can individually combat the eccentricities of each location.  Of course if you want to promote agen-titus..........

 

No= not promoting anyone use agents- I never have- I try and follow the whims of Immigration- I would agree- follow the eccentricities of the Office of jurisdiction where one lives.  Nice to have reports coming in from others-  Thanks to them we can make our way through the maze.

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, Kasane said:

There are no visa changes. Only stricter implementation of the current laws. Farangs who were falsifying their income through affidavits from their Embassies are finding it difficult to extend their stay. If retirees have the required income and/or bank balance then Thailand is a great place to live. 

...

Incorrect!

To wit --

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Lets take a dispassionate look at the situation.  The crash of the Pound vs the Baht 3 years ago was the major reason for expats leaving. 

 

Lately the 4 large embassies who wanted to work less really messed up their citizens who were lying on their extension applications. 

 

The seasoning of deposits for an extra few months has effected almost no one and is easily avoided by getting a 2 year visa at home or changing to an income method. 

 

Why all the negative threads?  I can only guess at the motive. 

I can only guess the motivations of people trying to sell the BIG LIE that there haven't been major and very onerous changes, when indeed there have been. I think that's unethical. Massively so. If I was a local at some lake that had some kind of unmarked major hazard in it and I saw outsiders approaching it to go swimming, I would feel like I was a really bad person if I didn't WARN them. After that, they can go swimming if knowing the hazard they still choose to, but I would know that I did the right thing.