Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats?

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, VBF said:

Agreed on the difference - massive!

BUT in UK I have no doubts about my rights to live here for ever without jumping through (as yet unknown) hoops - on that subject it's the uncertainty that concerns me.

PLUS in UK if I go broke (ie my savings drop below a certain level) the Social Services are required to help me, albeit minimally. NO...it's NOT ideal but at some stage choices and decisions have to be made, do they not?

 

One size definitely does not fit all in this scenario.

I locked in my major expenses 20 years ago and now I'm reaping the benefits of the Thai currency and almost paid for house.  Of course my wife could kick me out but I'm worth nothing when I'm gone as my pension only continues while I'm alive and since I made a house payment instead of rent I'm no worse off.  Having to do it now?  Big difference. 

[malibukid]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They have for Belgians doing

 

800K applications (much more seasoning and also the lockup)

Combo methods (reports that at least one office isn't doing combo applications at all anymore). For offices still accepting them with or without letter, the enforcement rules are now much more complicated and confusing, even to the officers, because the bank portion must now somehow conform to similar rules at the 800K method super seasoning.

Many officers can't even tell you the specific mechanical rules.

It's a total mess. 

so your saying no one at IM knows WTH is going on and what the rules are?  wonderful.  time to get an agent.  to old for this BS.

[VBF]

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I locked in my major expenses 20 years ago and now I'm reaping the benefits of the Thai currency and almost paid for house.  Of course my wife could kick me out but I'm worth nothing when I'm gone as my pension only continues while I'm alive and since I made a house payment instead of rent I'm no worse off.  Having to do it now?  Big difference. 

I get you. Plus, you have a wife, and one would hope that the good lady will care for you and help you with these things as you age. Look at my post #83 where I mention that I'm likely to be alone - I have no plans to marry, that's for sure. 

 

As I said before "One size definitely does not fit all in this scenario." 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, VBF said:

I get you. Plus, you have a wife, and one would hope that the good lady will care for you and help you with these things as you age. Look at my post #83 where I mention that I'm likely to be alone - I have no plans to marry, that's for sure. 

 

As I said before "One size definitely does not fit all in this scenario." 

I didn't have any plans to marry when I got to Thailand but after the 37th person proposed I finally said yes.  It's not like there is a shortage of people asking here whatever your taste (I'm old and ugly). 

[VBF]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I didn't have any plans to marry when I got to Thailand but after the 37th person proposed I finally said yes.  It's not like there is a shortage of people asking here whatever your taste (I'm old and ugly). 

Ah but were you when she proposed?

Bet I'm more bad tempered though!

I said....... I BET I'M MORE BAD TEMPERED THOUGH - WILL YOU BLOODY LISTEN!!!!!! 

But you're right....never say never...again! 

 

[Felt 35]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand is the chaotic

???? 

[mngmn]

14 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

With my current visit to Australia, the costs for basics are similar now to Thailand as long as I do not eat out. Yet, if I do eat out, it is comparable to eating farang food prices in Thailand, so no real biggie.

 

And this is the real biggie - for around $7000 I can get my wife PR in Australia, something I am unable to do in Thailand.

 

Agree with both your comments and would add.

 

Quality of food in Australia is greater than Thailand so better value for money.

 

If retiring, you need to deposit $20k in a Thai bank which you will never see again so the $7k for a visa looks like a bargain in comparison. Especially as this will provide life time security for your relationship as opposed to year by year uncertainty.

 

Your wife can legally work in Australia for wages that far exceeded anything you or she could likely earn in Thailand.

 

She will pay exactly the same price as you for everything. If of retirement age, you will receive discount on many things.

 

Both of you will have access to free health care.

 

As a bonus house prices are at an all time low (still much more expensive than Thailand).

[mngmn]

14 hours ago, luckyluke said:

In Flanders one has to pay 4 month rent(3 months guarantee, 1 month rent) in advance now before receiving the apartment keys. 

I assume you get the three months guarantee back as opposed to Thailand where most landlord regard the two months deposit as non refundable 'key money'.

[Ahab]

If you meet the financial and other requirements sure why not. If you don't (or have not been) meet the financial requirements it will be much harder to cheat the system. If they ever make the requirements so high that I don't meet them anymore I will consider other options or move somewhere else.

[BritManToo]

43 minutes ago, mngmn said:

If retiring, you need to deposit $20k in a Thai bank which you will never see again so the $7k for a visa looks like a bargain in comparison. Especially as this will provide life time security for your relationship as opposed to year by year uncertainty.

If of retirement age, you will receive discount on many things.

Dunno about 'lifetime security' they normally bunk off with a younger guy taking half your house and pension with them.

Australia gives a big discount on your pension if you marry a younger woman.

[DepDavid]

My rules would be:
 
1. If over 64 and not able to afford an international medical insurance policy or already have medical insurance, absolutely not. (See my information below on that topic).
 
2. If not able to handle the heat, not.
 
3. If not able to handle loneliness and isolation,  not.
 
4. If not having a minimum off 100k USD available for funding your life and "buying" the lifestyle you want,  not.
 
5. If not able to live with unpredictable government and immigration law and rules,  not......
 
 
On obtaining medical insurance in Thailand when over 65. 
 

I researched this until I was exhausted.  Pacific Cross kept coming up as the great option always suggested by TV members.

 

For the record,  at 67 years old  I was not eligible for any except 3 of a dozen different companies.   Pacific Cross was very clear on the quote they gave me.  I am only eligible for an "international plan", and because I have had laser treatment for my retinas and take medication for high cholesterol,  those are both preexisting conditions.   Any vision or coronary artery or heart disease is not covered.

 

The cheapest plan with Pacific Cross was around 9000 USD a year. The better plan was around 12,000 USA a year.

 

I grew tired of everyone telling me how I could get an affordable policy, and I applied for several different plans that I was not already eliminated. The best I could find that would actually pay and cover me was Cigna International and Geoblue with no exclusion on preexisting conditions.

 

The Geoblue expatriate policy for my age starts at 1200 USA dollars a month and goes up, as do they all with age.

 

For Pacific Cross, I've included the links and information.

 

I state again.  I actually applied and got quotes.  Here are the links you can read for yourselves. 

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Standard_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Comprehensive_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Major_Medical_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Premier_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

So did you go with Cigna? I did. My rates are a bit less because of age. They cover me anywhere except America because healthcare is so expensive there. If I need an outpatient visit for something I go to the local government hospital. I use a private lab for yearly blood tests which costs about 1500 baht. Cigna was certainly the best bet for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[watcharacters]

17 hours ago, glegolo said:

As usual you guys needs to have a reality check, most of you it seems. The thread should indicate that you are thinking about expats from the 4 primtive one countries, the ones without income-letters, they are; Denmark, UK, Australia and USA. The rest of ALL OF US as a majority are just fine...... And can look forward to many fine years here in Thailand in the future hopefully......

 

glegolo

 

The expats from the four countries   you list can no longer depend on income letters from their embassy.   Other than that fact how does your visa situation differ from theirs?

 

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I would recommend anyone thinking about retiring to Thailand to only come on an OA visa ( therefore avoiding the Thai banks requirements), not to burn any bridges in their home country and to rent not buy ( a home ).

After 2 years on the OA expats can then decide whether to continue or not .

[CaptainJack]

50 minutes ago, DepDavid said:

So did you go with Cigna? I did. My rates are a bit less because of age. They cover me anywhere except America because healthcare is so expensive there. If I need an outpatient visit for something I go to the local government hospital. I use a private lab for yearly blood tests which costs about 1500 baht. Cigna was certainly the best bet for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I desided on Geoblue.   It is part of Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  The key factor for me was because I already have retina issues and high cholesterol, I did not want to risk exclusions based on preexisting conditions.   Not cheap, but covers me as good as my Medicare/Advantage plan in the USA. 

 

I cannot return to Thailand because of my visa being obtained by the visa company bribing an IO (without my knowledge) and depositing 800k bt and withdrawing it the next day, which immigration caught on my 1st 90 report.   

 

If I do want to live in Thailand (as of now no), I had very clear instructions from a 20 year veteran officer in immigration to depart Thailand,  let my retirement Visa expire and reapply. 

 

I have no problem meeting the income requirements.   It was a horrible screw up and I took the fall.  

 

If I was to come back, my medical insurance will be between 1200 and 1400 US dollars a month. 

 

I have the exact same coverage when I'm traveling for fun or work for 200 US dollars a month,  so I will likely just go back to my old program and visit Thailand once a year.

 

Bottom line for me was I caught grief at my second 90 report and I was clearly informed that I had to produce my original bankbook for my renewal.   I was risking arrest for collusion.   The visa company has already left Thailand and are nowhere to be found. 

 

So, Geoblue for me.  Expensive,  but worth my eyesight and heart....

[Gecko123]

I would say that there's a fair amount of insecurity associated with living here "for the duration" which starts to prey on your mind as you get older. The recent changes and rumored future changes to immigration rules are just the latest manifestation of this uncertainty. Whether it's the thought of running to immigration to renew your visa at age 85, or worrying about what would happen if you forgot to file a 90 day report, absentmindedly or in an emergency withdrew money from your "immigration" bank account, failed to file a housemaster report, or - God forbid - forgot to renew your visa, sooner or latter those uncertainties and worries start to take their toll on your peace of mind.

 

And stepping back from immigration issues, fears about what social or elder care support you would have if your physical or mental capacity was impaired start to weigh even further. For many foreigners the extent of their social support drops off precipitously beyond their spouse. For this reason, I imagine many guys say a silent prayer every night that they pass away before their wife, out of fear about what the outlook would be were they to outlive their spouse.

 

In many ways, Thailand and Thai people are best thought of as fair weather friends. At the end of the day, their level of commitment and interest in your welfare is fairly limited. I'd advise anyone thinking about retiring here to bear that in mind and consider carefully what the realities of your golden years are likely to be like before retiring here, or for that matter, anywhere else abroad.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

The expats from the four countries   you list can no longer depend on income letters from their embassy.   Other than that fact how does your visa situation differ from theirs?

 

 

 

THAT fact is a HUGE fact and THAT difference is all that matters.....

 

glegolo

[tlandtday]

I think the writing is on the wall unless things change dramatically which I don't see happening.   Thailand is on a path of assimilation with China.  A colony which is heavily influenced by China in its economy as well as politics.   Westerners are second class citizens here and this has never been more apparent than now.  If you want to live with such insecurity and rights "up to you" but not recommended.

[tlandtday]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I would suggest if you can really afford to commit to Thailand's lack of residence security going forward for potentially decades, then you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand. Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City, Uruguay levels too. So my point in saying that is that in my view the vast majority of retirees in Thailand up till now are largely motivated by the bang for the baht factor, geographical arbitrage as it were. Given the trend in immigration policies here I see the future of this place only for the quite wealthy retiree. I think most of such very wealthy retirees would be better off elsewhere, but if they really really love Thailand in an exclusive way, then of course it would be Thailand. 

I think many very wealthy may have an estate in Phuket.  Many of these very wealthy individuals  have houses around the world and are not silly enough to commit full time to a country with such instability lurking below the surface.

[Rimmer]

An abusive personal attack has been removed also a reply

[perconrad]

21 hours ago, glegolo said:

As usual you guys needs to have a reality check, most of you it seems. The thread should indicate that you are thinking about expats from the 4 primtive one countries, the ones without income-letters, they are; Denmark, UK, Australia and USA. The rest of ALL OF US as a majority are just fine...... And can look forward to many fine years here in Thailand in the future hopefully......

 

glegolo

A couple of month ago the Danish Embassy in Bangkok resumed to do income letters. Before we used the tax return as evidence, but now our pension giver(s) must send proof of the pension(s) for the current year in English directly to the Embassy.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, perconrad said:

A couple of month ago the Danish Embassy in Bangkok resumed to do income letters. Before we used the tax return as evidence, but now our pension giver(s) must send proof of the pension(s) for the current year in English directly to the Embassy.

I do not know what to believe?? Are you  lying???? This is from the danish website of their embassy;

Stopping pension letter services for one-year visas with immediate effect

The Danish Embassy in Bangkok can no longer issue income certificates/pension letters as a supporting document for obtaining a one-year visa through the Thai authorities....pplicants who have applied for the income certificate/pension letter...if the letter has not yet been issued by the embassy

[Pedrogaz]

I voted no. Thailand has become more amore unwelcoming. This obsession with foreigners committing crimes, wanting to know where they are every minute, overcharging them at every opportunity, and making visas more and more hassle (although I did not experience this directly) is not really conducive to a happy life for an ex-pat. 

The beer and fags are cheap but I don't smoke and drink only once or twice a week, saving myself a few quid. I am thinking seriously of moving elsewhere as I am 65 and wouldn't wish to be forced to move in 10 or 15 years time. The problem of course is where to move too. As an American I can go almost anywhere, maybe I'll even move back to the States.

[Pedrogaz]

4 hours ago, tlandtday said:

I think the writing is on the wall unless things change dramatically which I don't see happening.   Thailand is on a path of assimilation with China.  A colony which is heavily influenced by China in its economy as well as politics.   Westerners are second class citizens here and this has never been more apparent than now.  If you want to live with such insecurity and rights "up to you" but not recommended.

This is nothing to do with China. The Thai elite are superior and dislike foreigners as much as they do the peasantry.

[Pedrogaz]

19 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Replied: 28 minutes ago

I hear you.  Everyone I know, even those with plenty of money and those just getting by are waiting to see if they goes through with their plan to tie medical insurance to retirement Visas. 

 

They got it all ready with the draft proposal written and signed off by all the Thai key players.   I think they are going to do it.  They don't want us here, else none of what has gone down would have happened.   Sorry bro.  I said scr*w it and went home while I still was able. 

 

CJ

 

PS. I hope for all that have lives, family and Thailand is home for them this rollercoaster ride is about over.  Nobody needs this c*rap in their retirement years. 

 

https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4000318/thailand-health-insurance-mandatory-expats

Yes mandatory insurance would make me move on. First it is stupidly expensive for poor quality care, and second the pre-exisiting conditions would mean refusals or very very high premiums. I take 20,000 baht of medicine each month, that would not be covered. I self-insure because I have the assets to cover a major emergency (or two).....but the constant and endless tightening of immigration rules, seemingly to no purpose, is hacking me off. I spend 3 to 4 million baht each year in the Thai economy, if that still makes me unwelcome here, I'll leave.

[JAFO]

I have always personally felt that moving anywhere outside your home country takes a solid plan and means. The expat that planned to pack up camp in his home country and flee to another in hopes his life will some how be magically better was flawed from the outset. There are many lost souls that wash up here sadly and then it unravels and they have no financial means to sustain themselves. Then the government changes the rules and this pushes them over the edge. 

 

As to the OP question, Hmmm, would I recommend Thailand to another expat....??? Yes and No. If coming here to retire, I'd say NO!, Stay a tourist and visit. The current immigration rules for retirees is not very favorable unless you have no concerns about tying up some cash and dealing with what appears to be constant rule changes. The unknown speculation of medical insurance plays a role in it as well. I know I would not personally do it even though I have the means.  However If coming here for employment opportunities I'd absolutely say YES!!!. Lots of perks and very affordable COL. If the expat is married to a Thai, again I'd say Yes. Why not. The marriage visa extension is easy to acquire and your cash outlay is far less then the retirement rules plus I seriously suspect they will not mandate med insurance for the expat married to a Thai. It just doesn't seem to be on their radar. 

 

 

 

 

[wwest5829]

We meet newcomers or those investigating retiring in Thailand at the Chiang Mai Expats Breakfasts on the 1st & 3rd Fridays of the month. We try our best to give sound advise, allowing that we are dealing with the uncertainty at Immigration. The biggest issue is the inconsistency with enforcing the same law through Thailand or even at the same office from day to day. Yep, the easiest way would be to park the 800K in a Thai bank. But I do point out I use the monthly income method and intend to continue to do so. If push comes to shove? Then, I am a free man and would plan to leave. My retirement dollars are invested and helping fund my moderately comfortable stable retirement. At 72, there is a limit to my spending my time and retirement dollars in a  country which welcomes the income.

[perconrad]

3 hours ago, glegolo said:

I do not know what to believe?? Are you  lying???? This is from the danish website of their embassy;

Stopping pension letter services for one-year visas with immediate effect

The Danish Embassy in Bangkok can no longer issue income certificates/pension letters as a supporting document for obtaining a one-year visa through the Thai authorities....pplicants who have applied for the income certificate/pension letter...if the letter has not yet been issued by the embassy

Why should I lie? On my embassy website the new way they can make a pension attest is only in Danish as far as I can see, here is the link

 

http://thailand.um.dk/da/rejse-og-ophold/borgerservice/attester/

 

Google translate show:

 

Certificates The Danish Embassy can assist Danish citizens with certifications of documents from official Danish authorities. There are three models for certifications: The Danish authority (including pension funds) sends the document directly to the embassy in English. The embassy then makes a verification statement, which costs DKK 200, -. If the relevant Danish authority sends a Danish document, which the embassy must translate into English and then prepare a certificate, the hourly rate costs DKK 970 per hour commenced. If, for example, the embassy receives a pension statement directly from a pension fund, it is considered to take one hour to prepare a certificate. If the embassy receives documents directly from the citizen, the embassy must have the correctness of the information confirmed by the relevant authority, which can take between 1-3 hours / hours started by DKK 970, -.

 

If you believe me and Google Translate is up to you

[Shiver]

I would say the same as many have said here in more detail already regarding being cashed up.  If not, or even if you are but want less Visa or potentially banking hassles (as a result of not having the right visa) then there are alternatives.  I'm kind of committed here, but if not, I'd a least have gone travelling for a couple of months to experience other places, either here in Asia, or perhaps South/Central America.

 

I'm committed to my girl and our business, but thankfully don't rely on income from inside Thailand.  Working here is another compliance hurdle.

[seasia]

I voted No in the poll. I could hardly vote yes when I myself am looking at several alternatives to Thailand, after 10 years of living here.

 

Various reasons :

 

I am currently OK visa wise until next year/permission extension valid until then.Probably OK after that.

Emphasis on currently and probably. I am not being smug, feel for those who have family and investment here.

I do not own property here, other than possessions. No wife, no kids, yes a Thai GF of 9 years.

 

For me it is more to do with potential health issues going forward.

In my mid 50s .

What about when I hit 60 +, so far no real health issues, bar a minor one.

My day for a major event could come, not wishing it of course.

Some of the health insurance amounts that some in their later 60s and also 70s  state scare me a bit.

As do some of the private hospital costs.

 

I am not in love with Thailand, do not regard it as the best country in the world, as it appears some others do.

 

I can obtain more or less free health care in at least 2 other countries, one of which is rated No. 2 in the world by WHO.

 

I am in no rush to make a decision.

 

Soon taking a 5 month break from Thailand.

 

I would also like to do some more general travelling whilst still able to.

 

Plenty of interesting and attractive countries to choose for visits/stays.

[JusticeGB]

I have left Thailand after 18 years as the rules as written would leave me hostage to fortune as a brown envelope would be needed even though I meet the income requirements. All my pensions are paid to a UK bank account and my address for all my pensions is a UK forwarding address. It is a nightmare changing addresses for many of my pension providers and Transferwise requires a UK address.