Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats?

[CaliTransplant]

Before becoming an expat anywhere, one should do due diligence. Research such things as climate, medical facilities, cost of living, and government rules and regulations for expats. In the three years I've been here there are few substantive changes to expat regulations: A rejection of the (scam?) income verification letters and a tighter enforcement of existing regulations. What constantly amazes me is the number of people who feel they are *entitled* to live here because they *choose* to live here. The reality is that this is their game and the Thai government gets to make the rules, however friendly or onerous. We should know the rules before we arrive. Knowing the rules, we can choose to live here and play by their rules. Or not. For me, and speaking only for myself (I'm not one of those omniscient TVF members), I find the positive aspects of living in Thailand far outweigh the negatives. As to recommending Thailand to someone else, it's entirely their decision. I routinely catalogue the government regulations we must abide by and then say, Come to Chiang Mai and I will gladly show you some of why I wake up every day happy to be here. 

[Chicken George]

I can see myself leaving in a few years time.. I would take my 2 children with me but do not have funds to take the wife too.. Nightmare... 

I have some health issues that could get worse no insurance.. Maybe as I hope i will just drop dead not linger and waste our money.. 

I think many dont consider the reality of aging here if it goes wrong.. Would I go before a problem well no.. Hope to make it to an age when kids can look after themselves.. At least one of them anyway.

Maybe I think too much.. ????

 

[mngmn]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Dunno about 'lifetime security' they normally bunk off with a younger guy taking half your house and pension with them.

Australia gives a big discount on your pension if you marry a younger woman.

I was talking about security in regard to immigration.

 

Being in in Thailand doesn't make you immune to the problems you mention.  Many wives have a younger Thai 'brother' tucked away somewhere and most wives already own 100% of the 'family home' due to property laws.

[BritManToo]

41 minutes ago, CaliTransplant said:

What constantly amazes me is the number of people who feel they are *entitled* to live here because they *choose* to live here.

We should know the rules before we arrive. 

Come to Chiang Mai and I will gladly show you some of why I wake up every day happy to be here.

The UN seems to think it's a basic human right to be able to live in a country with your wife and children.

Does that 'amaze' you too?

The rules before I arrived (2009) was a 1 year VISA for 120 pounds, no questions asked, those rules changed after I started living here and had a Thai wife with a kid on the way.

Last week you would have needed a photo to show us, as you wouldn't have been able to see through the smog.

The mountains almost reappeared after the storm yesterday.

 

Sorry, your entire post is apologist Thai government suck, rose tinted BS.

[kokesaat]

Seems to me the only way to know what effect the visa requirements have on expats (coming or leaving) is to get access to a historical chart of the ever-elusive, super-secret longstay visa stats.  My guess is the exchange rate has much more to do with people coming/going than the recent changes to the visa program.  

[hansnl]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:54 PM, Jingthing said:

Irrelevant to this poll.

People if they leave, will not leave all at once.

Some will leave quickly based on an immigration meeting shock. 

Such as the guy in Krabi that went in with an income import application and was told go away no embassy letter no chance even though your embassy no longer offers letters.

Others will leave more on their own time frames, especially if they have strong ties in Thailand (relationships and assets).

Others will fork over the cash for a very expensive Elite Card based visa.

One of most expensive visa options on the planet for a nation at the economic level of Thailand. 

As retired expats in Thailand we understand the changes.

Some of us feel them intensely (I do) and others do not.

Surely that will color our feelings about recommendations to others.

Personally I strongly feel all not wealthy potential new retired expats need to be WARNED.

That seems to me to be the only decent and ETHICAL response to this situation.

Why wish the pain on others? 

I am slowly moving into old age, while wondering if I would be able to move to Pilipine areas.

Did a lot of checking, with some expats, the PH embassy and a few locals in and around Metro Manila.

Well, if it gets any more difficult, the proverbial last straw so to say, I am off.....to Pilipine joys.

Less income needed, no money in the bank needed but $8000 as basis for a long-term visa, no 90 day nonsense, possible to get into the healthcare system for around $70 a month, after one year a visum for longtime, etc, etc, etc.

Renting a nice place, house or apartment bit more expensive as Thailand, true.

But English is spoken nearly everywhere.

Elderly care is available, reasonably priced, food nearly the same price.

Outside MM living is cheap.

I am interested!

[totally thaied up]

1 minute ago, kokesaat said:

My guess is the exchange rate has much more to do with people coming/going than the recent changes to the visa program.  

Cost of living and exchange rate is a big factor. This is what drives me in deciding to stay or go.

 

48 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

I have some health issues that could get worse no insurance.. Maybe as I hope i will just drop dead not linger and waste our money.. 

Getting old in Thailand worries me. My biggest worry would be priors on a health insurance that made it impossible to use. Starting to think the older I get, less chance of sticking around. Dying ten years early just due to your not covered for something is not my cup of tea.

[malibukid]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:54 PM, dbrenn said:

I would only recommend Thailand to cashed up expats, never to those who are anywhere near the minimum financial requirements. 

i am cashed up expat, but so many first world options

[malibukid]

54 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The UN seems to think it's a basic human right to be able to live in a country with your wife and children.

Does that 'amaze' you too?

The rules before I arrived (2009) was a 1 year VISA for 120 pounds, no questions asked, those rules changed after I started living here and had a Thai wife with a kid on the way.

Last week you would have needed a photo to show us, as you wouldn't have been able to see through the smog.

The mountains almost reappeared after the storm yesterday.

 

Sorry, your entire post is apologist Thai government suck, rose tinted BS.

CM also has good today. finally

[malibukid]

33 minutes ago, hansnl said:

I am slowly moving into old age, while wondering if I would be able to move to Pilipine areas.

Did a lot of checking, with some expats, the PH embassy and a few locals in and around Metro Manila.

Well, if it gets any more difficult, the proverbial last straw so to say, I am off.....to Pilipine joys.

Less income needed, no money in the bank needed but $8000 as basis for a long-term visa, no 90 day nonsense, possible to get into the healthcare system for around $70 a month, after one year a visum for longtime, etc, etc, etc.

Renting a nice place, house or apartment bit more expensive as Thailand, true.

But English is spoken nearly everywhere.

Elderly care is available, reasonably priced, food nearly the same price.

Outside MM living is cheap.

I am interested!

and most Philippine girls speak English and are pretty hip

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, perconrad said:

Why should I lie? On my embassy website the new way they can make a pension attest is only in Danish as far as I can see, here is the link

 

http://thailand.um.dk/da/rejse-og-ophold/borgerservice/attester/

 

Google translate show:

 

Certificates The Danish Embassy can assist Danish citizens with certifications of documents from official Danish authorities. There are three models for certifications: The Danish authority (including pension funds) sends the document directly to the embassy in English. The embassy then makes a verification statement, which costs DKK 200, -. If the relevant Danish authority sends a Danish document, which the embassy must translate into English and then prepare a certificate, the hourly rate costs DKK 970 per hour commenced. If, for example, the embassy receives a pension statement directly from a pension fund, it is considered to take one hour to prepare a certificate. If the embassy receives documents directly from the citizen, the embassy must have the correctness of the information confirmed by the relevant authority, which can take between 1-3 hours / hours started by DKK 970, -.

 

If you believe me and Google Translate is up to you

Congratulations it seems that Denmark have join the world and left USA/UK/Australia behind. So there were only three now, three out of how many hundreds of countries???

 

glegolo

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

I have left Thailand after 18 years as the rules as written would leave me hostage to fortune as a brown envelope would be needed even though I meet the income requirements. All my pensions are paid to a UK bank account and my address for all my pensions is a UK forwarding address. It is a nightmare changing addresses for many of my pension providers and Transferwise requires a UK address. 

I have not left Thailand after 18 years as my 12 year old nephew does my immigration and banking stuff so I don't have to mess with it. 

 

Naw, just kidding.  But do you really think anyone believes you?  The Visa stuff is really simple. 

[malibukid]

1 hour ago, CaliTransplant said:

Before becoming an expat anywhere, one should do due diligence. Research such things as climate, medical facilities, cost of living, and government rules and regulations for expats. In the three years I've been here there are few substantive changes to expat regulations: A rejection of the (scam?) income verification letters and a tighter enforcement of existing regulations. What constantly amazes me is the number of people who feel they are *entitled* to live here because they *choose* to live here. The reality is that this is their game and the Thai government gets to make the rules, however friendly or onerous. We should know the rules before we arrive. Knowing the rules, we can choose to live here and play by their rules. Or not. For me, and speaking only for myself (I'm not one of those omniscient TVF members), I find the positive aspects of living in Thailand far outweigh the negatives. As to recommending Thailand to someone else, it's entirely their decision. I routinely catalogue the government regulations we must abide by and then say, Come to Chiang Mai and I will gladly show you some of why I wake up every day happy to be here. 

hello, but i was told today that CM immigration will  not accept a SS1099 form from Social Security as proof of income.  this not the same as the previously issued affidavits form the consulate.  this is a hard copy document from the United States government. i was told that i need to transfer SS into my bank account here every month.  this is bogus.  you cannot scam an official document.  so where are they coming from.  money grab.

[tlandtday]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

This is nothing to do with China. The Thai elite are superior and dislike foreigners as much as they do the peasantry.

Thailand and most of SE Asia are largely controlled by wealthy Chinese who have moved here long ago and have become Thai Chinese, Indo Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and the list goes on... don't be fooled...

[seasia]

Just now, CaliTransplant said:

Before becoming an expat anywhere, one should do due diligence. Research such things as climate, medical facilities, cost of living, and government rules and regulations for expats. In the three years I've been here there are few substantive changes to expat regulations: A rejection of the (scam?) income verification letters and a tighter enforcement of existing regulations. What constantly amazes me is the number of people who feel they are *entitled* to live here because they *choose* to live here. The reality is that this is their game and the Thai government gets to make the rules, however friendly or onerous. We should know the rules before we arrive. Knowing the rules, we can choose to live here and play by their rules. Or not. For me, and speaking only for myself (I'm not one of those omniscient TVF members), I find the positive aspects of living in Thailand far outweigh the negatives. As to recommending Thailand to someone else, it's entirely their decision. I routinely catalogue the government regulations we must abide by and then say, Come to Chiang Mai and I will gladly show you some of why I wake up every day happy to be here. 

Hi

 

Yes, we should all do our research .

What happens though if there are changes ?

Chaing Mai looks horrible recently and did get voted most polluted city in the world recently for a few days.

Could one have predicted that ? Going back many years, not just 3 years.

 

I have lived in naklua 10 years, never really noticed the pollution but I am sure it has changed, for the worse..

Many people now wearing dust masks and I am mostly talking about the Thais, never really saw it as important before.

 

Cost of living, could anyone have predicted the hard drop in GBP as well as AUS $, many years ago ?

 

I think not, therefore one has to have flexibility 

 

As to Government regulations, there are a lot of posts in the Visa section where people are treated differently according to where they are and even which IO they see.

 

How do you prepare for that ?

 

People change, countries change.

 

As do needs and wants.

 

 

[dbrenn]

47 minutes ago, malibukid said:

i am cashed up expat, but so many first world options

I can understand that. I'm sitting on my balcony looking out on Narrabeen beach in Australia right now. Clean air, and nothing between me and South America.

 

[marcusarelus]

38 minutes ago, malibukid said:

hello, but i was told today that CM immigration will  not accept a SS1099 form from Social Security as proof of income.  this not the same as the previously issued affidavits form the consulate.  this is a hard copy document from the United States government. i was told that i need to transfer SS into my bank account here every month.  this is bogus.  you cannot scam an official document.  so where are they coming from.  money grab.

Didn't you ask that question before and were told it would not work?

[marcusarelus]

28 minutes ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

Yes, we should all do our research .

What happens though if there are changes ?

Chaing Mai looks horrible recently and did get voted most polluted city in the world recently for a few days.

Could one have predicted that ? Going back many years, not just 3 years.

 

I have lived in naklua 10 years, never really noticed the pollution but I am sure it has changed, for the worse..

Many people now wearing dust masks and I am mostly talking about the Thais, never really saw it as important before.

 

Cost of living, could anyone have predicted the hard drop in GBP as well as AUS $, many years ago ?

 

I think not, therefore one has to have flexibility 

 

As to Government regulations, there are a lot of posts in the Visa section where people are treated differently according to where they are and even which IO they see.

 

How do you prepare for that ?

 

People change, countries change.

 

As do needs and wants.

I went to a course by an economist named Peter Drucker when I was a young man.  He said the only thing you can be sure of is change.  This I knew when I was 22.  The course really cost a lot of money.  He was correct. 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I can understand that. I'm sitting on my balcony looking out on Narrabeen beach in Australia right now. Clean air, and nothing between me and South America.

 

I am sitting on my balcony looking out over the Gulf of Thailand and I have 100 grand in my pocket that I would not have if I lived in Australia. 

[Odysseus123]

32 minutes ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

Yes, we should all do our research .

What happens though if there are changes ?

Chaing Mai looks horrible recently and did get voted most polluted city in the world recently for a few days.

Could one have predicted that ? Going back many years, not just 3 years.

 

I have lived in naklua 10 years, never really noticed the pollution but I am sure it has changed, for the worse..

Many people now wearing dust masks and I am mostly talking about the Thais, never really saw it as important before.

 

Cost of living, could anyone have predicted the hard drop in GBP as well as AUS $, many years ago ?

 

I think not, therefore one has to have flexibility 

 

As to Government regulations, there are a lot of posts in the Visa section where people are treated differently according to where they are and even which IO they see.

 

How do you prepare for that ?

 

People change, countries change.

 

As do needs and wants.

 

 

Very sensible post.

[onera1961]

On 4/22/2019 at 2:14 AM, madmen said:

Not without health insurance. Thats the first thing and if you think 800k is expensive just wait until your stroke bill after 2 weeks in ICU !

There is always GoFundMe and the made up sob story of Thai tyranny. 

[onera1961]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

He said the only thing you can be sure of is change. 

Two thousand five years ago, a prince-turned-monk said the same ????

[onera1961]

I would recommend only if someone has at least 2 million liquid assets and a 40K income per month. If your income is higher the better. But the reserve requirements remain the same. Never move to Thailand if you have less than 2 million. Stay in your own country. Believe me, it is cheaper if you have a place to stay for almost free (like your house, you children's basement etc.). Of course, if your goal is to avail cheap sex, Thailand is the place. In most countries, girls working in bars doesn't go to sleep with somebody 20 years older than her unless the person is a millionaire. 

[malibukid]

3 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I voted no. Thailand has become more amore unwelcoming. This obsession with foreigners committing crimes, wanting to know where they are every minute, overcharging them at every opportunity, and making visas more and more hassle (although I did not experience this directly) is not really conducive to a happy life for an ex-pat. 

The beer and fags are cheap but I don't smoke and drink only once or twice a week, saving myself a few quid. I am thinking seriously of moving elsewhere as I am 65 and wouldn't wish to be forced to move in 10 or 15 years time. The problem of course is where to move too. As an American I can go almost anywhere, maybe I'll even move back to the States.

also thinking of moving back to the States. Santa Barbara, miss my friends, and will take the cat with me.

[madmitch]

I want to leave but it doesn't really have anything to do with the visa issues, though I really will have to curb my spending to avoid using the 800,000 baht in the three months after renewing my extension and keeping the balance at 400,000 thereafter.

 

No, I'm one of those who made the decision to come here when the baht was nearly 70 to the pound, when I could invest the proceeds from the sale of my house at nearly 7% interest in an offshore bank, enabling me to live off that interest without touching the capital, and at a time when Thailand was both cheaper and more fun. Even health insurance was affordable at my younger age.

 

Fast forward to 2019 and I'm "stuck" here in "paradise"! Yes, some people still use that term while in reality Phuket had stopped being a paradise long before I arrived. I have a business (well the GF does!), long-term partner and teenage daughter at International School. House prices in the UK didn't stagnate, as was forecast when I sold my property in London, they went through the roof. Interest rates are bugger all and we all know about the baht. I'm drawing my pension earlier than anticipated, from a sum that has been diminished following my decision to follow the suggestions of a "financial advisor" who managed to lose a large portion of my fund!

 

I've never been in love with Thailand and I really consider it as the place I happen to be living. It is not my home. I'm missing England more and more as I get older, though must not forget the reasons I left in the first place.

 

I have made the decision that when my daughter reaches sixth form age that we will go to the UK; she will learn free at sixth form college, I'll rent a property with the money saved by not having to pay for her school and it'll get her used to life in the UK before, hopefully, she goes to university there. The GF will join me during the summer and she'd work back in Thailand during the high season. It'd be a two year "test the water" plan at first and I'll decide therefter what's best for our futures.

 

Sorry, I've rambled a little off-topic butI know I'm not alone in this situation and sometimes it's good to share with others who may or may not be in a similar predicament.

[yellowboat]

Who wants to put up with such lunacy when you are looking for peace and quiet ? 

 

You can live in Vietnam, have the same sort of life without the stupidity and hassles and still spend time in Thailand to get your fill of lunacy without the hassles. 

 

Thailand is kaput. A waste of time.   Even China offers more certainty than Thailand. 

[KhunFred]

Had I known of the changes coming, I could never have come here. I would probably have ended up in Panama or Colombia. Only problem is lack of firm Spanish skills. I knew that I could get by in Thailand without speaking the language. Instead of concentrating on making things EASIER for their western benefactors, they've decided to make it as difficult and inconvenient as they possibly can. Odd, since the western countries pulled Thailand's chestnuts out of the fire during the Vietnam War years, when there was widespread fear of a communist uprising. Once they were safe, they went back to being the xenophobes they've always been.

[RobMuir]

On 4/22/2019 at 3:03 PM, Jingthing said:

I would suggest if you can really afford to commit to Thailand's lack of residence security going forward for potentially decades, then you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand.

 

Yes yes spending your retirement, sitting on the beach, sipping cocktails in JUne on a New Zealand beach is what everyone wants.

 

Quote

Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City, Uruguay levels too. So my point in saying that is that in my view the vast majority of retirees in Thailand up till now are largely motivated by the bang for the baht factor, geographical arbitrage as it were.

 

Thailand is trying to dissuade these types. And rightly so. They use public hospitals that should be for the thai taxpayer, they steal, they contribute nothing and whine the loudest. 

No country wants or needs economic refugees.

 

Quote

 

Given the trend in immigration policies here I see the future of this place only for the quite wealthy retiree. I think most of such very wealthy retirees would be better off elsewhere, but if they really really love Thailand in an exclusive way, then of course it would be Thailand. 

There is nowhere better. If there was I would move there.

 

When are you off?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 4/22/2019 at 3:36 PM, gk10002000 said:

Wait a minute.  Are you saying that only those four countries are the ones that are not doing income letters?  Does that mean Thailand is accepting income letters from many other embassies/countries?  If so, don't you think the Thais will start not accepting those and demanding similar monthly transfers as "proof" of income that they are now mandating? 

 

   It comes down to what is actually driving the less use of income letters?  Is it the Thais not believing the letters, regardless of the country?  If so, how long before all such affirmations are denied?

 

You might wonder whether was just a coincidence, or something else, that the embassies that stopped issuing income affidavits for their expats just happened to be the largest western country senders of expat residents of Thailand -- the U.S., UK and Australia.  And meanwhile, all kinds of other countries' embassies continue issuing income affidavits, Thai Immigration apparently has no problem with them, and surely many of them doing no more checking than the UK Embassy had been doing prior.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

 

You can live in Vietnam, have the same sort of life without the stupidity and hassles

 

AFAIK, living in Vietnam as a western expat typically requires pretty regular visa run exits out of the country....I wanna say every 90 days or so... Yes, no???

 

I'd count that in the "hassle" category, especially as folks get older and may be less inclined or able to make international travel trips.