Selling UK Property

[topt]

8 minutes ago, SteveK said:

What can the landlord do? If he lets himself into the property or changes the locks, he can be arrested, even if the tenant has never paid a penny. If he keeps trying to go around to the house, or to find the tenant at their place of work, he can be arrested for harassment.

 

All a landlord can do is send a formal demand for the arrears with the threat of legal action. After they don't respond, then you can apply to the court to obtain possession of your property (section 8 I think), that takes months, costs money, and if the tenant appears at the hearing and defends their case for whatever spurious reason, you will probably need another court hearing. They can make something up like the house has no hot water, has a problem with mould or pests etc.

 

And if the tenant responds to your initial letter, saying "sorry I am behind with the payments, I've got a bonus coming from work in 2-3 months so just hold on and I'll pay you the arrears as a lump sum" - so the landlord gives them a chance before spending money on legal proceedings, but the money never arrives.

 

In both cases, many, many months will have passed, during which time the tenant will not be paying the rent, council tax and possibly bills as well, and they could even have sold any items of value such as washing machine, fridge etc or vandalised the property because they feel they have been mistreated by the landlord.

 

The landlord can spend thousands on legal proceedings to recover his losses, but they will never see a penny in most cases because often the tenant doesn't have any money or has simply left the country. The landlord has no choice but to suck it up and chalk it up to experience. For older couples who have invested their life savings in a buy-to-let property, this can be a complete and utter disaster - and as mentioned many tenants are very aware of their rights in the internet age, so go for as long as they can without paying a penny.

 

In the UK there are programmes on TV about these kinds of problems. There have been cases where tenants have lied about having a miscarriage and even being diagnosed with cancer to get the landlord to leave them alone for several months. The tenants have so much power, and if the landlord fails to complete one step of the eviction process precisely as he should, it goes back to the start and they have to send out the rent demands again.

I am not disagreeing with anything you said. 

However if you take out a section 8/21 properly or with legal help, and don't allow yourself to be swayed too much by "false promises" then most online sources suggest maximum of 8 months - allowing for delays. A lot less than 3 years.......

 

Yes of course there are exceptions but for a Landlord to allow something to go on for 3 years before taking any action (unless there were other reasons not mentioned) is careless to say the least.

 

And yes I agree that is still too long and can still be a disaster 

[SteveK]

You are very right, of course, 3 years is an exceptional case, probably the landlord had been getting strung along with excuse after excuse (possibly the landlord was living abroad and rarely came back to the UK). 12-18 months to get rid of bad tenants would be more common, which is still an eye-watering financial loss.

 

Signing a contract stating that you will pay rent when you have no intention of doing so should be a criminal matter, but landlord and tenant disputes almost always fall under civil law, which means it takes ages and the tenants won't get prosecuted.

 

Just out of interest, what happens in Thailand if you don't pay the rent? 

[NightSky]

as for investments everything is a risk, it’s a matter of choosing your poison. Whichever suits you best. I’ve done shares, business and property and I prefer a mix of all. Just remember, although unlikely, stocks and shares have the potential to goto zero whereas UK property will always have some value regardless how bad things get. 

[SteveK]

9 minutes ago, NightSky said:

as for investments everything is a risk, it’s a matter of choosing your poison. Whichever suits you best. I’ve done shares, business and property and I prefer a mix of all. Just remember, although unlikely, stocks and shares have the potential to goto zero whereas UK property will always have some value regardless how bad things get. 

Yes, a stock or share could go to zero, but a diversified portfolio containing individual shares, funds, commodities and bonds is very, very unlikely to go to zero.

 

A bad tenant who causes lots of damage to the property, and never pays rent, combined with maintenance costs like replacing a boiler, repairing the roof, or dealing with a flood which your insurer won't pay out for, because it was an act of God, would reduce most investors to their knees.

 

With British politicians hell-bent on destroying the country, any GBP denominated assets could soon not be worth much anyway.

 

The more you've got, the more you can lose, so spend it and enjoy your life before you kick the bucket (just don't forget to keep the 800k!).

[SteveK]

Don't forget that after Germany lost WW1, hyper inflation meant that people had to carry wheelbarrows full of almost worthless Deutschmarks to the shop to pay for a loaf of bread. The way the UK is headed, you could end up trading the deeds to your Hertfordshire home for a plate of som tam on soi 4.

[1FinickyOne]

I have used an agent and Fed Ex - - yes, things can get screwed up but they can get screwed up when you are right there also... price it fairly and be done with it...

[Tomahawk21]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:00 PM, beau thai said:

I gave a PoA to my lawyer in uk, specific to the house sale. All went smoothly and I escaped to the sun. The PoA cost was insignificant within the overall house sale costs, and improved my stare of mind to hightail from Uk weather!

i done the same the cost was hardly anything as i remember 

[Nurseynutcase]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:52 PM, RichardColeman said:

Very strongly recommend not selling it IF it is your property and IF it is your only property. 

 

There are so many stories of people going to Thailand, ending up with no money - mostly bad planning and even badder women - and now near potless with nowhere to return to. 

 

I had been living in Thailand previously on a retirement visa by only renting out my house - working fine until I ended up with a bad tenant - who luckily for me (not him) actually died thereby saving me the issues of evicting him. Just taken me away from Thailand and my family for 6 month to repair and repaint it !

 

Sure I could sell it and never worry about money in Thailand again - probably. If I sold it it would be about 310k £ - about 30 years worth at a grand a month spending. BUT, why bother - the rent on the house would be 1000 a month minimum anyhow ! (I now get a small pension on top for anyone worrying that is not enough)

 

But Thailand is NOT the UK, we are only guests - unless they change the law. We are at their biding and at the mercy of there immigration laws.

 

No do not risk it if its your only home.

 

 

 

I too have a property in the UK which I rent out.  In my previous job in the UK I met so many people who sold up and moved abroad - Spain, France, Cyprus, Greece, Italy etc and when 'something' happened to a partner - ill-health/death they wanted to move back to the UK.  The only trouble was that house prices had shot up in the meantime and the only option was to buy somewhere much smaller or move to the North of England(I am from the South).

 

I am single with only a brother as a family member and I do intend staying in Thailand 'til I hand in my dinner ticket.  But you never know what may happen in the future.  For this reason I will never sell my house.  I agree whole heartedly with the above poster

[NightSky]

16 hours ago, SteveK said:

Yes, a stock or share could go to zero, but a diversified portfolio containing individual shares, funds, commodities and bonds is very, very unlikely to go to zero.

 

A bad tenant who causes lots of damage to the property, and never pays rent, combined with maintenance costs like replacing a boiler, repairing the roof, or dealing with a flood which your insurer won't pay out for, because it was an act of God, would reduce most investors to their knees.

 

With British politicians hell-bent on destroying the country, any GBP denominated assets could soon not be worth much anyway.

 

The more you've got, the more you can lose, so spend it and enjoy your life before you kick the bucket (just don't forget to keep the 800k!).

Haha very true although I must admit your picture of the tenant is worst case scenario

 

as for spending to enjoy, easier said than done, but true nevertheless 

[salavan]

On 4/24/2019 at 8:49 AM, nchuckle said:

Be aware that as it’s not been your main residence for over 18 months ( shortly to be reduced to 9) you will be liable for CGT on disposal (Capital gains tax) for any profit on a proportional basis related to time you didn’t live there. The 40k lettings allowance is also being scrapped.Obviously this is greater on a higher Value house and you do have about 12k CGT allowance. Look into it. I’ve only been here 4.5 years but because of the gain on my house i would lose tens of thousands in tax if I sold. You are still liable for that proportion even if you move back in and subsequently sell. 

Yoir only escape  is when you die (that tax liability dies with you) !

CGT as from 2015

[stanleycoin]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:15 PM, roo860 said:

'It's so miserable and expensive'

Where is this place in the UK?

Please dont say everywhere.

No 10,  Downing Street London SW1 2Ab Uk.   

[Mike Teavee]

On 4/24/2019 at 9:49 AM, nchuckle said:

Be aware that as it’s not been your main residence for over 18 months ( shortly to be reduced to 9) you will be liable for CGT on disposal (Capital gains tax) for any profit on a proportional basis related to time you didn’t live there. The 40k lettings allowance is also being scrapped.Obviously this is greater on a higher Value house and you do have about 12k CGT allowance. Look into it. I’ve only been here 4.5 years but because of the gain on my house i would lose tens of thousands in tax if I sold. You are still liable for that proportion even if you move back in and subsequently sell. 

Yoir only escape  is when you die (that tax liability dies with you) !

If you're Non UK Resident for Tax, then it's based on the difference between the sale price & the value of your house as at 6th April 2015 not the price you paid for it, unless that works out better for you... 

Properties sold on or after 6 April 2015.

A new CGT charge was introduced from 6 April 2015 where a non-UK resident sells residential property in the UK. You can choose how to calculate the gain on which the charge is based in one of three ways:

1. On the difference between a) the amount the property is sold for and b) its value at 6 April 2015. You will need to establish the value of the property at 6 April 2015; or

2. Over the whole period of ownership and then time apportion it and the part of the gain that relates to the period from 6 April 2015 would be subject to these provisions; or

3. If you owned the residential property before 6 April 2015 and sold it for less than it cost you then you can calculate the loss over the whole period of ownership but the way you can use this loss is restricted.

 

[stanleycoin]

Think i read some place that it was only about 3% of landlords, experience

serious problems with tenants, like evictions.  ( could be wrong )

Thats a 97% sucksess rate, 

I rent two properties out in the uk, have had no serious issues. so far.

Choose your letting agent well. Get good landlord insurance cover.

don't be a cheep Charlie. 

 

Ps, keep your house in the uk,  and rent it out, if you can.

Yes it can go wrong on you,   but odds on it won't

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rodentwarrior]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:48 AM, SteveK said:

Because of Brexit, things are painfully slow

Brexit has nothing to do with the mechanics of selling or buying property in the UK. 

 

The post referendum period has caused the market to pause, and prices have stabilised, but it still takes the same amount of time to sell or buy.  Try blaming inept solicitors/borrowers/lenders.  Years ago I bought a house in London, exchanged and completed within a month.  The biggest delays are usually because of chains.

 

Giving your solicitor POA would make sense if you don't want to be in the UK when you eventually have a serious buyer.  Solicitors are regulated by the Law Society.

[Mover1]

Hi Steve K,

 

Yes I've sold many of my own properties in the UK while living in Thailand, and all sales were pretty straightforward (apart from the sale of one flat because of the freeholder being a nightmare). 

 

I never did a POA with my solicitors, instead I completed all the paperwork for each property before I left the UK, just don't put the date on anything and you're away. You need a good solicitor for this, and luckily I'd dealt with my local UK one beforehand, and she was fantastic. 

 

Bear in mind once the sale completes you'll need to complete a NRCGT form within 30 days for HMRC, otherwise you'll have late penalties applied. Sounds like you have nothing to worry about anyway in regards to CGT payable, but the form still needs to go in within 30 days.

 

Good luck with it.