Thai death penalty threat over floating home sparks 'seasteading' debate

[webfact]

Thai death penalty threat over floating home sparks 'seasteading' debate

By Rina Chandran

 

A Royal Thai navy ship drags a floating home, lived in by an American man and his Thai partner, in the Andaman Sea, off Phuket Island in Thailand, April 22, 2019. REUTERS/Stringer

 

BANGKOK (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - The threat of death sentences against a couple who set up an offshore home near a Thai island, has sparked a debate on the growing "seasteading" movement and the right to create floating settlements to cope with the effects of climate change.

 

Thailand's navy on Monday towed to shore a floating cabin which had been set on top of a spar 14 nautical miles off Phuket.

 

Authorities said the structure was within the country's 200-mile exclusive economic zone, and charged U.S. citizen Chad Elwartowski and his Thai girlfriend with violating Thai sovereignty, punishable by death penalty or life in prison.

 

The whereabouts of the couple are unknown.

 

Ocean Builders, which funded and built the cabin, said on its website the structure was in international waters.

 

Advocates of seasteading say floating homes and villages are more sustainable than land reclamation, and that they can boost tourism, check rising land prices, and provide a solution to coastal cities at risk of flooding and rising sea levels.

 

"Most crowded cities are located on coastlines. There is tremendous availability of space in the ocean nearby, which can help ease congestion and lower costs of land acquisition," Nicolas Germineau, co-founder of start-up Blue Frontiers, said on Tuesday.

 

Like most technologies, it will become more efficient and have wider applications over time, said Germineau, whose Singapore-based firm builds seasteads and floating islands.

 

"It can already help with sea-level rise, governance innovation, foreign investment, high land and home prices, increased tourism, and economic diversification," he said.

 

With 90 percent of the world's largest cities vulnerable to flooding as glaciers melt and sea levels rise on a warming planet, a United Nations-backed partnership earlier this month said it will study the prospect of floating cities.

 

Modular platforms anchored to the sea floor can be connected in a ring to house communities atop the oceans, it said.

 

Before that commitment, the French Polynesian government in 2017 signed an agreement with Blue Frontiers to build a floating village.

 

Some community members have opposed the project on environmental grounds and fears that it will only benefit a wealthy few.

 

These are valid concerns for all countries considering the concept, said Peter Newman, a professor at the Curtin University's Sustainability Policy Institute in Australia.

 

"Seasteading is entirely elitist. It's a wealthy person's plaything, and has nothing to do with solving the problems of climate change," he told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

 

"If they want to use off-shore technology, they should start fixing low-lying cities like Bangkok and old cities like London or New York built on river mouths. Escaping and leaving cities will not work for long," he said.

 

The U.N. partnership said it is exploring sea-borne homes for the neediest, as well.

 

Meanwhile, the Seasteading Institute, a U.S.-based non-profit, urged compassion from Thai authorities, even though it was not involved in the project.

 

Undeterred by the actions of Thai authorities, Ocean Builders said it would continue to build seasteads.

 

"We already have been contacted by several countries that see the potential of the innovation, the tourism and economic growth that their nation will receive once they have a wealth of new commerce and tourism off of their coast," it said on its website.

 

(Reporting by Rina Chandran @rinachandran; Editing by Michael Taylor. Please credit the Thomson Reuters Foundation, the charitable arm of Thomson Reuters, that covers humanitarian news, women's and LGBT+ rights, human trafficking, property rights, and climate change. Visit http://news.trust.org)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-04-23

 

[HNWI]

or just buy a yacht like the rest of us

[NokNokJoke]

I suspect the bigger agenda they have is to avoid a documented or registered vessel.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RotBenz8888]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

death sentences against a couple who set up an offshore home near a Thai island,

If they where caught and actually got executed, how sick that would be

[mike787]

4 minutes ago, RotBenz8888 said:

If they where caught and actually got executed, how sick that would be

It's Thailand, wouldn't surprise me.  Thai immigration/gov has gone this far, no telling how far they will go.  However, no problems for Russians gangs/mafia, and crime going on 24/7 in the family resort town of Pattaya.  But Thailand needs to commission the Thai Navy to shut down one farang, his thai wife, and a home describing them as "Their action is seen as undermining the sovereignty of Thailand," he said.  AND threaten to kill them.  I just love the Land of smiles!  Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over again.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/1665172/navy-moves-floating-threat-to-thai-sovereignty-ashore

[Oziex1]

I think the photo of a patrol boat towing a building the size of a dog kennel says it all. As Thais might say,  for what!

[Sonhia]

Interesting report and a what a good idea too. So much for Thailands commitment to new technology plus ideas. 

 

Sentence both to death for being forward thinking, why not, good idea, after all the couple were hindering (shipping) traffic, creating pollution, were noisy and an eye sore, which can be found on the mainland. 

 

Death penalty! Really? I'm living in the dark ages... 

 

 

[Puchaiyank]

They must be killed...there is no other punishment which will pay for this egregious act of transgression against the fragile Thai ego...

 

 

[anterian]

Thailand has just killed a golden innovation with potential for growth, I'm sure Singapore will easily find a more forward thinking country. 

[KMartinHandyman]

The Thais admit they were in international waters but within their exclusive economic zone,,okay but if the couple weren’t commercial fishing what’s the problem. There was a mention of navigational hazard and that would have needed addressing.
I guess it was easier to threaten to execute them and be done with it.

[MeePeeMai]

2 hours ago, HNWI said:

or just buy a yacht like the rest of us

Yea, I'll pass on the floating hippy hut in the middle of nowhere ...thanks.

[impulse]

30 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

The Thais admit they were in international waters but within their exclusive economic zone,,okay but if the couple weren’t commercial fishing what’s the problem. There was a mention of navigational hazard and that would have needed addressing.
I guess it was easier to threaten to execute them and be done with it.

 

Look up "contiguous zone"

[mike787]

1 hour ago, Puchaiyank said:

They must be killed...there is no other punishment which will pay for this egregious act of transgression against the fragile Thai ego...

 

 

Lets destroy their life's because we feel like it, and kill them if we find them....Remind me, WHY again?? Oh because we want to...Ok! got it!   

[khunpa]

LOL! Death Penalty for setting up a crappy hut in the middle of nowhere.

 

But nothing for setting forests on fire and choking thousands of people slowly to death. 

 

Sure...... makes sense 

[KMartinHandyman]

 
Look up "contiguous zone"

There’s a million random words I could look up but as the random words “contiguous zone” didn’t appear in the article I’ll pass, thank you.

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, mike787 said:

It's Thailand, wouldn't surprise me.  Thai immigration/gov has gone this far, no telling how far they will go.  However, no problems for Russians gangs/mafia, and crime going on 24/7 in the family resort town of Pattaya.  But Thailand needs to commission the Thai Navy to shut down one farang, his thai wife, and a home describing them as "Their action is seen as undermining the sovereignty of Thailand," he said.  AND threaten to kill them.  I just love the Land of smiles!  Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over again.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/1665172/navy-moves-floating-threat-to-thai-sovereignty-ashore

Seriously, what are you talking about?  

 

No one has threatened to kill them.  Did you see a death threat?   Perhaps just the particular law they could be charged with might carry the death penalty.  Quite a difference.

Honestly these people who set up these seasteads are morons.  Let's forget the build quality (they could easily drown when they collapse) but they are calling other people to join them in their commune.   Do you think you could set one of these up off the coast of Miami, fill it full of Mexicans, call on other people to join you in your anti government commune, and expect to be left alone by the government and/or navy of the USA?  Of course not!!  The US navy would be all over you.   Float one off the coast and exhort others to join you?  You think that will end well with a handshake?

 

Why do you think the Thai navy should behave any differently?

 

But no, of course, this should be seen as a bad Thai action.  Anti-foreigner blah blah blah....

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, KMartinHandyman said:

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 
Look up "contiguous zone"

There’s a million random words I could look up but as the random words “contiguous zone” didn’t appear in the article I’ll pass, thank you.

 

So, you'd prefer to post out of ignorance, and then to stay that way?   It's the concept that allows Thailand to do what they have done.

 

Here's a hint.  It goes out to 24 miles.  The seastead was 14 miles out.  If you don't know that, you don't understand what's going on.

 

[mania]

Floating homes looks interesting if they can withstand the waves etc.

 

But on the other hand I shudder to think what would happen to the ocean if this idea caught on with Thai's

considering how they treat land trash dumping wise etc

 

[Denim]

10 minutes ago, mania said:

Floating homes looks interesting if they can withstand the waves etc.

 

But on the other hand I shudder to think what would happen to the ocean if this idea caught on with Thai's

considering how they treat land trash dumping wise etc

 

 

Yes, we've polluted the land now lets do the sea.

 

Oh..........sorry.   Already been done.

[yellowboat]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Before that commitment, the French Polynesian government in 2017 signed an agreement with Blue Frontiers to build a floating village

New and great ideas are not welcomed in Thailand.  If you are Thai and not part of the inner circle, you must plot and scheme to become successful inside of Thailand.  The outside world is far kinder to you. 

 

The death threat for little more than an elaborate tree house just shows barbaric mentality. 

[ocddave]

They would have been better off if they hit a police officer with a Ferrari and dragged his dead body down the street, they would then get priority treatment and be allowed to travel at-will.

[josephbloggs]

34 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

New and great ideas are not welcomed in Thailand.  If you are Thai and not part of the inner circle, you must plot and scheme to become successful inside of Thailand.  The outside world is far kinder to you. 

 

The death threat for little more than an elaborate tree house just shows barbaric mentality. 

I'm no fan of the Thai military and the Navy has a pretty poor record in general, but I don't understand why people are siding with the hippies other than taking their usual anti-Thai stance.   Think about it.

 

So it is one elaborate tree house off the coast.  They call for others to join them.  So let's say there were 1,000 elaborate tree houses off the coast.  Still ok?  Ships should just route around them because, hey, they are seasteaders and they have the right to, like, be totally happy, chill out dude?  

 

Would this be ok off the coast of the US, especially if they were packed full of Mexicans?  No doubt you would support them because new and great ideas are not welcome in the US, right?  Or is it only Thailand?

 

And when there is a storm, a fire, and they need rescuing we should just leave them to it?  Or would that be barbaric too?  No doubt you would think it is barbaric to leave them be.  The inhabitants of Sealand (an occupied WW2 platform) off the coast of the UK were happy to be rescued by a Royal Navy helicopter and the RNLI when a fire broke out there.  

 

By the way the "Seasteading Institute" has raised $27m in crowd funding so far.  If you feel so sorry for them feel free to donate, I am sure they would appreciate it, they really really would.

 

Yes, a charge carrying the death penalty is ridiculous, but these people deserve no sympathy, and if you think they do deserve sympathy go ahead and donate and help their cause.  The whole thing is ludicrous.

 

Edit:  And I would love to hear why setting up a rickety floating platform in the sea is such a "new and great" idea that we should all appreciate and welcome.  Off you go....

 

 

[josephbloggs]

17 minutes ago, ocddave said:

They would have been better off if they hit a police officer with a Ferrari and dragged his dead body down the street, they would then get priority treatment and be allowed to travel at-will.

Yeah, of course.

[stanleycoin]

Well well.

I'm most surprised and shocked that the Thai navy have done this.

Who would have ever thought, that this would be the

out come. !!!!!!!!!!  ,   

 

[josephbloggs]

12 hours ago, Sonhia said:

Interesting report and a what a good idea too. So much for Thailands commitment to new technology plus ideas. 

 

Sentence both to death for being forward thinking, why not, good idea, after all the couple were hindering (shipping) traffic, creating pollution, were noisy and an eye sore, which can be found on the mainland. 

 

Death penalty! Really? I'm living in the dark ages... 

 

 

I must have missed it in the article, can you tell me where the new technology is?  

 

It looked like a very rickety, basic platform.  What am I missing?  And what, exactly, is Thailand missing out on?

 

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

I must have missed it in the article, can you tell me where the new technology is?  

 

It looked like a very rickety, basic platform.  What am I missing?  And what, exactly, is Thailand missing out on?

 

If you are British then you will understand when I say it was really Dr Who's Tardis.????

[DLock]

Yeah, because living in a small plywood box 14km of shore, a hazard to shipping and fishing boats and putting you crap directly into the ocean is a good idea.

 

And claiming it's some sort of sustainable, environmentally friendly community, when it is just a greedy tax dodge, lawless environmental disaster letting anyone build a floating platform from leftover shipping pallets and repurposed plywood and claiming some sort of rights.

 

Who is going to save you when your plywood box gets destroyed by winds and waves? Which country is going to allow you to bypass immigration and customs by going in and out for food when you get sick of mackerel. What happens when your neighbor shoots you with his speargun for your last pop tart? 

 

This is just a dumbass idea that hasn't been at all thought through, but cheered on by the financially challenged.

 

[josephbloggs]

6 minutes ago, DLock said:

Yeah, because living in a small plywood box 14km of shore, a hazard to shipping and fishing boats and putting you crap directly into the ocean is a good idea.

 

And claiming it's some sort of sustainable, environmentally friendly community, when it is just a greedy tax dodge, lawless environmental disaster letting anyone build a floating platform from leftover shipping pallets and repurposed plywood and claiming some sort of rights.

 

Who is going to save you when your plywood box gets destroyed by winds and waves? Which country is going to allow you to bypass immigration and customs by going in and out for food when you get sick of mackerel. What happens when your neighbor shoots you with his speargun for your last pop tart? 

 

This is just a dumbass idea that hasn't been at all thought through, but cheered on by the financially challenged.

 

Brilliantly put!  

 

Here's a good article about what "seasteading" is really about.  Tax.  https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/04/the-unsinkable-dream-of-the-floating-city/559058/

 

You have to laugh at the anti-Thais jumping all over this without actually using their brain to think about it.

[overherebc]

25 minutes ago, DLock said:

Yeah, because living in a small plywood box 14km of shore, a hazard to shipping and fishing boats and putting you crap directly into the ocean is a good idea.

 

And claiming it's some sort of sustainable, environmentally friendly community, when it is just a greedy tax dodge, lawless environmental disaster letting anyone build a floating platform from leftover shipping pallets and repurposed plywood and claiming some sort of rights.

 

Who is going to save you when your plywood box gets destroyed by winds and waves? Which country is going to allow you to bypass immigration and customs by going in and out for food when you get sick of mackerel. What happens when your neighbor shoots you with his speargun for your last pop tart? 

 

This is just a dumbass idea that hasn't been at all thought through, but cheered on by the financially challenged.

 

It's not that different from sticking up a tent in the centre reservation of the M6 and calling it a good idea.

[stanleycoin]

1 hour ago, geoffbezoz said:

If you are British then you will understand when I say it was really Dr Who's Tardis.????

It could even have been,  a Master stroke.