Immigration won't accept my TM30 registration

[shady86]

 
What Immigration Office?
 
Re the answer to your question above, of course it's because you're a shady criminal in waiting who's clearly on the verge of some serious offense to national security like jaywalking or slamming your house door too loud....

Chaeng Watthana. Got all my documents ready and being told at the end I need to do TM30 due to strict enforcement. Took another queue and wasted 3 hrs more.

[OJAS]

24 minutes ago, shady86 said:

38 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
What Immigration Office?
 
Re the answer to your question above, of course it's because you're a shady criminal in waiting who's clearly on the verge of some serious offense to national security like jaywalking or slamming your house door too loud....

Chaeng Watthana. Got all my documents ready and being told at the end I need to do TM30 due to strict enforcement. Took another queue and wasted 3 hrs more.

Looks like the TM30 requirement is now starting to become rigorously enforced in Bangkok.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Looks like the TM30 requirement is now starting to become rigorously enforced in Bangkok.

 

I hope @UbonJoe sees Shady's post above. Because in another thread just the other day, Joe seemed to be saying that he didn't believe BKK Immigration was really enforcing the TM30 requirement when people only come up for routine retirement and marriage extensions. (The topic of that thread was a Non-O 90-day visa for marriage, I believe).

 

I replied back to Joe in that thread that I'd seen a number of posts and reports here in recent months of officers at CW BKK requiring TM30s for marriage or retirement extensions, and refusing to do the new extension until the person had completed the TM30 process. And of course fining them as well.

 

But, in the main threads on that issue, the posts have been somewhat mixed. Some folks have said they've gotten thru CW BKK without being asked about TM30s, and others have reported the opposite. So it's kind of hard to tell whether it's being uniformly enforced, or just selectively enforced. Shady obviously was one of the "lucky" ones...

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[shady86]

Not only me, but all the applicants today are surprised with this new requirement and there was another 80 queues for TM30 when we took the last queue at 3.30pm. The officers doing extension could have told us from beginning that TM30 I needed so we don't waste another 3 hrs for that. Finished TM30 at 6pm, fortunately the O extension officers waited for us to finish it off. We also argued that their website is not updated with this requirement but as usual nobody gives a damn and happily cashed in another 800B. What a joke.

 

 

[timendres]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What Immigration Office?

 

Re the answer to your question above, of course it's because you're a shady criminal in waiting who's clearly on the verge of some serious offense to national security like jaywalking or slamming your house door too loud....

Or Seasteading!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, shady86 said:

Not only me, but all the applicants today are surprised with this new requirement and there was another 80 queues for TM30 when we took the last queue at 3.30pm. The officers doing extension could have told us from beginning that TM30 I needed so we don't waste another 3 hrs for that. Finished TM30 at 6pm, fortunately the O extension officers waited for us to finish it off. We also argued that their website is not updated with this requirement but as usual nobody gives a damn and happily cashed in another 800B. What a joke.

 

Up-to-date website????  Haaaaa!!!!!!

 

Silly Gringo... We don't need no stinkin' websites with our actual requirements....  

[Caldera]

In the current climate, I simply wouldn't hand over any rent or deposit money until and unless the landlord fills in the TM30 form and provides the additional documents required.

 

In fairness though, both my current and my previous landlord did just that without me even prompting them - but from this report and similar ones in the past, it's obvious that some (many?) landlords aren't familiar with their duty to report a foreign tenant yet. Ultimately it's us, the foreigners, who will be screwed.

[edwardflory]

"I rented a house recently from a Thai person and dropped by the local immigration department to register that I'm now living at that new address.  The immigration officers politely refused to accept my registration because they require the landlord to visit them with a copy of his Thai ID card and tabian bahn.  I have a copy of my rental contract, visa, passport etc, but they refuse to accept these."

 

TRY THIS:

I do a TM-30 signing as "POSSESOR". Look at the SIGNATURE line on the form, strike out the 2 other titles. ( say something like..my landlord is traveling and I can't contact him, I have signed the TM-30 as POSSESSOR, I live on / just moved to the property, to comply with the regulations - DONT LIE about anything!!!!! )

Have ORIGINAL Lease and 2 copies, complete a TM-28, complete a 90 day report ( TM-47 ), copy of PP photo page, copy of extension stamp page, copy of Departure Card ( TM-6 ), copy of entry stamp ( and re-entry stamps if you have ), hand the " package" to the IO within 24 hours ( open IO office days - best to move after 6PM on a Friday ) of moving ...... Its overkill, but I am done in under 5 minutes at " MY LOCAL IO" Worked for me in BKK, the IO looked at me and said "Good" last time. 

Also if you plan your move in advance ( I try to do 30 days in advance ), you can get utility bills / deposit receipts / instillation paperwork to add proof to your "POSSESSION" of the property )

 

YOUR ==>> LOCAL IO POLICY <<== SETS THE RULES,  but try the above.

 

I keep 3-5 ( or more ) blank copies of TM Forms of all of the above.  Also I keep copies of related PP pages and copies of my 2 issued Thai ID cards.

 

Related.,..If you are hosting a foreigner on your property, you need to inform immigration ( reference YOUR local IO for ""THEIR"" policy  ) of their presence BY FILING A TM-30.  Any private home owner who failed to report a foreigner staying with them "within 24 hours of their arrival" could be fined 1,600 to 10,000 baht for EACH unreported person per regulations.:

Edited April 25, 2019 by edwardflory
info

[new2here]

In the current climate, I simply wouldn't hand over any rent or deposit money until and unless the landlord fills in the TM30 form and provides the additional documents required.
 
In fairness though, both my current and my previous landlord did just that without me even prompting them - but from this report and similar ones in the past, it's obvious that some (many?) landlords aren't familiar with their duty to report a foreign tenant yet. Ultimately it's us, the foreigners, who will be screwed.

I agree. I’ve had several close friends who’ve been in this situation. Not that their landlord simply wasn’t willing to do so- only that they were wholly unaware that such regulation was in fact mandatory.

While not in Bangkok, each time my friends ran into this issue, they asked an IO from their local office call their landlord and explain what the mandate is, what’s needed for compliance and the process.


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[thesetat2013]

Suggest you leave immediately and get into a hotel. This will end their requirement and cancel any additional fines. Make notes of everything. Get legal help to sue for fines paid. But good luck with that. The more time you take to leave and get into a hotel. The more in fines you can be made to pay immigration. 

[IraqRon]

perhaps the op's landlord is not the owner, or is not the housemaster in the blue book.

 

just shows how much power these folks have to cause big problems.

[AlQaholic]

It is the landlords' responsibility and the landlord have to pay any fines in connection to this.

[simon43]

Right!  An update.

 

I just came back from the immigration office. I took a copy of the tabian bahnm and Thai ID card of my landlord, plus the other documents that I already had.

 

This time I spoke with an IO who didn't deal with me earlier this week and late last week.  I explained why I was one week 'late' in registering my address, and I submitted all my documents.

 

He looked slightly annoyed and he opened my passport to look for my visa.  He saw the gold 5-year Thailand Elite visa and politely said in Thai "No problem at all, I will also process your 90-day report right now that's due next Monday".

 

5 minutes later, all done, no fine, no 'telling-off' and finished with receipts and a polite wai.

 

Sorted!

Edited April 25, 2019 by simon43

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, shady86 said:

Renewed my visa today and was fined 800B for not doing TM30. I'm staying in my own condo and argued why I need permission to stay at my own place. Wasted my whole day and things are getting worst. Why on earth do I need to report to them whenever I come into Thailand and staying at my own place! 

Fortunately this is not required at some offices. But to your question, they want to know where you went after leaving the airport. As the owner of the condo, you need to report when a foreigner stays there, that would be you.

[shady86]

Fortunately this is not required at some offices. But to your question, they want to know where you went after leaving the airport. As the owner of the condo, you need to report when a foreigner stays there, that would be you.

I questioned them what's the point of filling the address in arrival card and 90 days notifications, they told me its a different system even though handled by immigration. Oh yeah, I need to report to them I staying at my own place. This place is a joke, I don't know whether I should laugh or cry :) Anyway they would love to collect 800B fine for this, wouldn't they? Just make up some stupid rules to exploit the long term foreigners here.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, shady86 said:

I questioned them what's the point of filling the address in arrival card and 90 days notifications, they told me its a different system even though handled by immigration.

Yes - the "problem" is it is a "different system."  The new "biometric" bits are probably also a "different system."  Why not hire a decent IT team to build a complete-system that actually ties together all the pieces?  It hurts my head to think of how their databases are structured (or "not structured").

[LongTang]

1 hour ago, shady86 said:

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Fortunately this is not required at some offices. But to your question, they want to know where you went after leaving the airport. As the owner of the condo, you need to report when a foreigner stays there, that would be you.

I questioned them what's the point of filling the address in arrival card and 90 days notifications, they told me its a different system even though handled by immigration. Oh yeah, I need to report to them I staying at my own place. This place is a joke, I don't know whether I should laugh or cry :) Anyway they would love to collect 800B fine for this, wouldn't they? Just make up some stupid rules to exploit the long term foreigners here.

You should cry... as we all should

[shady86]

Yes - the "problem" is it is a "different system."  The new "biometric" bits are probably also a "different system."  Why not hire a decent IT team to build a complete-system that actually ties together all the pieces?  It hurts my head to think of how their databases are structured (or "not structured").

That's the beauty of bureaucracy here. .. Create more systems to benefit the cronies and get some kickbacks in return. Doing more things = hiring more staff = more wastage. All done to make life harder for foreigners here and suck as much money as possible. I have stayed in 3 foreign countries and the others is not even close in terms of hassle just to renew visa. Imagine the number of papers you need to submit every year. Paper factories, printer makers, ink makers, photocopy shops all will be laughing and happily pocket more from the poor foreigners here!

[Maestro]

16 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

It is the landlords' responsibility and the landlord have to pay any fines in connection to this.

I presume that with landlord you are referring to the person called owner in section 38 of the English translation of the Immigration Act made available on the website of the Immigration Bureau.

 

I have always wondered how this works when, for example, a foreigner lives in a rented apartment in Bangkok and its owner lives in Chiang Mai.

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, shady86 said:

Anyway they would love to collect 800B fine for this, wouldn't they? Just make up some stupid rules to exploit the long term foreigners here

I have heard from a few sources that the 90 day reporting will be eliminated in the future, sadly not similar for the TM30 requirement. What is goofy is how some offices implement it firmly and some do not, a few 'fines in pockets' I believe. It really should be something as simple as on-line 90 day reporting. 

[onera1961]

Renewed my visa today and was fined 800B for not doing TM30. I'm staying in my own condo and argued why I need permission to stay at my own place. Wasted my whole day and things are getting worst. Why on earth do I need to report to them whenever I come into Thailand and staying at my own place! 

Owning the place does not absolve you from reporting.


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[Badrabbit]

Do you need a power of attorney form to self register, I did this last time so do I need to do again?

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[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Do you need a power of attorney form to self register, I did this last time so do I need to do again?

If you are in Phuket you will need one every time.

Other offices normally don't want one.

[observer90210]

Deduct the fine from the next month's rent !

[shady86]

Owning the place does not absolve you from reporting.


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Its not reporting. Its actually asking permission from the owner of the home to allow a foreigner to stay.

[b4n9]

On 4/24/2019 at 7:53 PM, shady86 said:

Renewed my visa today and was fined 800B for not doing TM30. I'm staying in my own condo and argued why I need permission to stay at my own place. Wasted my whole day and things are getting worst. Why on earth do I need to report to them whenever I come into Thailand and staying at my own place! 

hell yeah! it's hilarious! 

[KhunHeineken]

On 4/24/2019 at 9:45 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Fill out a TM28 instead. This form is for aliens to self register. Take the paperwork you have.

This is the form I use. Apart from the usual passport details, I take along copies of:-

Lease agreement.

Owner's ID.

Tabien Bahn.

Hand-drawn map.

Photo of me in front of house with address number visible.

 

Never had a problem.

I've posted a similar question in another thread.

 

I haven't heard of the TM28 form, but as the OP says, if you can't get the landlord's ID card and house book, what can you do?