denied at bkk, waiting in detention

[borderlesss]

OK so i'm completely retarded, here is the details:

 

- been in and out of Thailand for 1 year, mostly visa exempt (a good 8-10 in and outs, often from organic travel), only have 1 SETV that I got from Saigon in January

- recently had to renew my passport which took a long time to receive and resulted in me overstaying 14 days

- paid the overstay fine, uneventful, then went to Phnom Penh on Sunday the 21st with intention of getting a SETV

- all agencies I spoke said they would take 4 days to get me a visa, I decided i didn't want to wait that long and flew back to bkk last night without a visa (Tuesday the 23rd) - okay obviously this was lazy and retarded

- flew into BKK, the immigration officer asked me what I'm doing in Thailand, i said traveling, he took me off to some corner in the airport where there is s few cubicles and others being detained, some officers there asked me for my incoming and ongoing flight information which i provided them with, then they asked what I'm doing here, I said traveling once again, they didn't ask for any details really

- waited 1.5h or so then they took me to the detention area for processing

- I signed that document saying I'm not allowed entry into Thailand and I will be detained in detention room until I get a flight out

- the IO that processed me was nice enough to explain what was going on in as much detail as possible (i had to ask a few times but he was helpful when i inquired)

- he translated some thai on one of the documents and it said something along the lines of "unlikely to be a tourist, doing a standard visa run and trying to get back into thailand without a proper reason for being here" it also noted the overstay and that I have a history of coming and going many times (there was a document that lists all the in and outs)

- my passport also got some kind of denial stamp I think it had the numbers 12 and 2 on it (do not have access to passport at the moment lol)

- I'm Canadian, have 20k+ baht on me, bank records showing much more, lease agreement, but they never asked for any of this stuff or seem to care about it so I guess for this particular IO, the overstay + obnoxiously attempting a visa exempt entry after so many in and outs was enough for him to say OK <deleted> this guy

 

OK so what to do now?

 

I do live in Bangkok, have possessions and and ongoing lease here. Fully intend to re-enter. I have already started looking at Thai Elite to rid myself of these problems once and for all but that seems to take a few weeks at least. In the mean time, is it worth attempting a land border crossing? If so should I attempt to get a tourist visa first? (I have never entered thailand by anything but BKK and DMK). If so, which land border would be the best? I have to go back to Phnom Penh as per the policy here (anyone detained must use the same airline as they arrived with and in my case that is Cambodian Air which only has flights from BKK -> PNH so PNH will be my starting point. Looks like Penang in Malaysia or Savannakhet in Laos are my best options? or are some of the Cambodian crossings with the fixers also an option? 

 

thx if you read this far, if you have any questions about being detained in bkk airport let me know, I have another 10 hours or so before my flight out and not much to do until then :)

[Tayaout]

Canadian too :-).

 

I was denied too at Don Muang but with a SETV. I crossed via Nong Khai/Laos without issue. If you choose Cambodia to come back then avoid Ayutthaya/Poipet at all cost.

 

You don't need a fixer and the limit is 2 visa exempt at land border per calendar year and not limit with a visa. You should get a SETV before trying again but it might not even be necessary. At least via land border they will simply bounce you back and won't put you in detention. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Tayaout

[mstevens]

You seem to be the latest in what is now a steady stream of people being denied entry with the commonality a history of using either visa waivers or tourist visas back to back as part of what is essentially a long stay in Thailand.

 

The obvious long-term solution is the Elite Visa....if you're prepared to stump up the money.

 

The best short-term solution is probably to get a visa and enter at one of the border crossings which are less trouble. The Friendship Bridge at Nongkhai, crossing in from Laos seems to be one of the better options.

[borderlesss]

You guys think there is a big difference from having an SETV versus visa exempt when crossing via land border?

 

I ask because by the time I get to a thai consulate or an agency to process the visa for me, it will be thursday or friday, which means I will not receive the visa until next week. Meanwhile if visa exempt is not much different, I can do that as early as tomorrow morning (I land in Phnom Penh at ~9:30pm and then I'd just hire a car to drive me directly to the friendliest border in Cambodia, not sure where that is yet but looks like it'll be a 5-7h drive)

[Yeahbutwhytho]

Why did you sign that form? They're going to force you back to canada and make you pay for the flight yourself

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

You guys think there is a big difference from having an SETV versus visa exempt when crossing via land border?

A major motive for the SETV is to husband your visa exempts by land, using them only when you have no reasonable alternative. There are a various options for a (faster) SETV.  If you go to Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi or Saannakhet by tomorrow morning, you will have a visa by Friday afternoon. Of these, Savannakhet is the best option for entering Thailand by land. Unfortunately, flights to Savannakhet have become limited. If you can persuade your airline to fly you to Vientiane rather than back to Phnom Penh (usually negotiable if they fly there) it will be easier. Another option is to travel to Kota Bharu (Malaysia) where you can apply for a visa on Sunday, receiving your passport back with visa on Monday afternoon. If you feel none of this is reasonable, by all means burn a visa exempt by land. It should be no problem. Just be aware that you are using a valuable resource that you might need more urgently at a later time.

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, borderlesss said:

I do live in Bangkok, have possessions and and ongoing lease here. Fully intend to re-enter. I have already started looking at Thai Elite to rid myself of these problems once and for all but that seems to take a few weeks at least.

Seriously, not trying to pee on anyone's bonfire here, but in addition to Elite's other policies you will need to check with their (or rather Thai Immigration's ) previous overstay policy. You have stated that you have had a recent 14 day overstay, you would need to verify that this would be regarded as OK.

 

There is another thread regarding the Elite/overstay issue currently running.

 

Just so you are aware.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

Why did you sign that form? They're going to force you back to canada and make you pay for the flight yourself

It is very unlikely he will be forced back to Canada. Usually, the default is to return him to Phnom Penh (his last embarkation point) but this is negotiable with the airline (assuming your airline representative is around to discuss it with).

[SEtonal]

1 hour ago, borderlesss said:

I have already started looking at Thai Elite to rid myself of these problems once and for all but that seems to take a few weeks at least.

 

With the Thailand Elite visa, a single 1-day overstay is most likely problem, but a 14-day overstay is problematic.  

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1086957-elite-visa-after-overstay/?tab=comments#comment-13895656

 

[borderlesss]

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

A major motive for the SETV is to husband your visa exempts by land, using them only when you have no reasonable alternative. There are a various options for a (faster) SETV.  If you go to Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi or Saannakhet by tomorrow morning, you will have a visa by Friday afternoon. Of these, Savannakhet is the best option for entering Thailand by land. Unfortunately, flights to Savannakhet have become limited. If you can persuade your airline to fly you to Vientiane rather than back to Phnom Penh (usually negotiable if they fly there) it will be easier. Another option is to travel to Kota Bharu (Malaysia) where you can apply for a visa on Sunday, receiving your passport back with visa on Monday afternoon. If you feel none of this is reasonable, by all means burn a visa exempt by land. It should be no problem. Just be aware that you are using a valuable resource that you might need more urgently at a later time.

I see what you are saying. In my case since I'm going to immediately start the Thai elite process, I think it's reasonable to burn one of these. 

 

Since I now have an overstay stamp and a 'denied entry' stamp on whatever it is, I do have concerns I'll be able to get in via land border even. Is that concern warranted? I mean are the IOs at land borders just blindly stamping people through?

 

Alternatively I could be at the Thai embassy in ho chi Minh tomorrow morning when it opens. A bit concerned since I've gotten an SETV here before + the 2 new ugly stamps. 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

 

Alternatively I could be at the Thai embassy in ho chi Minh tomorrow morning when it opens. A bit concerned since I've gotten an SETV here before + the 2 new ugly stamps. 

What are the current requirements of obtaining a SETV at HCMC ?

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

Alternatively I could be at the Thai embassy in ho chi Minh tomorrow morning when it opens. A bit concerned since I've gotten an SETV here before + the 2 new ugly stamps. 

Almost certainly HCMC won't allow you entry (unless you already have a Viet multi entry VISA).

I'd try a flight to Kuala Lumpur (or Cambodia or Laos).

 

Please post back what happens if you try HCMC.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[sanemax]

52 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

You guys think there is a big difference from having an SETV versus visa exempt when crossing via land border?

 

I ask because by the time I get to a thai consulate or an agency to process the visa for me, it will be thursday or friday, which means I will not receive the visa until next week. Meanwhile if visa exempt is not much different, I can do that as early as tomorrow morning (I land in Phnom Penh at ~9:30pm and then I'd just hire a car to drive me directly to the friendliest border in Cambodia, not sure where that is yet but looks like it'll be a 5-7h drive)

Ask whether you can fly from Bangkok to Chiang Mai , as they arent so strict in CM ?

[borderlesss]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Almost certainly HCMC won't allow you entry (unless you already have a Viet multi entry VISA).

I'd try a flight to Kuala Lumpur.

 

Please post back what happens if you try HCMC.

Do you mean HCM is unlikely to give me a SETV? Or you mean Vietnam won't let me in?

[borderlesss]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Ask whether you can fly from Bangkok to Chiang Mai , as they arent so strict in CM ?

When you get detained at bkk airport you are only allowed to leave bkk airport via the airline you flew in on. In my case that is Cambodia air and the only flight they have is back to PNM.

 

There is someone here from some random African airline that only comes to BKK every 4 days and they had to wait that long. Confirmed they take this policy seriously.

[MadMuhammad]

47 minutes ago, BritTim said:

It is very unlikely he will be forced back to Canada. Usually, the default is to return him to Phnom Penh (his last embarkation point) but this is negotiable with the airline (assuming your airline representative is around to discuss it with).

Not necessarily true from what I know. Had a friend recently do back to back extended exempts followed by an SETV from HCMC. 

Stopped and detained at Suvarnabhum and deported to Australia rather than back to Vietnam. 

He has been living in Asia for 21 years and hasn’t been to Australia for 2 or more years ????????‍♂️

Edited April 24, 2019 by MadMuhammad

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

Do you mean HCM is unlikely to give me a SETV? Or you mean Vietnam won't let me in?

Your passport will almost certainly be marked 'refused entry for insufficient funds' by Thai immigration.

If you fly to PP, they don't appear to care all that much about Thai refusal stamps.

Suvannakhet in Laos might be the place to buy a tourist VISA, the Thai land boarder there is very easy going.

 

Vietnam are a bit funny about 'refusal stamps', but if you try to enter I'd be interested in hearing what happens.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

When you get detained at bkk airport you are only allowed to leave bkk airport via the airline you flew in on. In my case that is Cambodia air and the only flight they have is back to PNM.

 

There is someone here from some random African airline that only comes to BKK every 4 days and they had to wait that long. Confirmed they take this policy seriously.

Reports are they only take that policy seriously if you sign the forms (which you foolishly did).

If you refuse to sign there is room for negotiation on the destination of flights out.

[borderlesss]

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Reports are they only take that policy seriously if you sign the forms (which you foolishly did).

If you refuse to sign there is room for negotiation on the destination of flights out.

Do you know this for a fact? The situation I was in when deciding to sign it or not was at 12am with the back office IO that processes all the paperwork, an airline rep and this robotic girl that was just stating and restating policy. The back office IO barely spoke English. I'm not saying your claim is not true but I ask if you know it for a fact because:

1) my sense of the situation was everyone was going through procedure and didn't have any power to do anything else 

2) these are the only people in the world who can help you at the moment, pissing them off by refusing to sign routine paper work might not be a good idea

 

The must use same airline policy is pretty annoying for everyone, it forces pissed off detainees to stay in detention for longer, what incentive do the detention IOs have to trick you into signing something that locks everyone into that situation?

[ubonjoe]

43 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Stopped and detained at Suvarnabhum and deported to Australia rather than back to Vietnam. 

He has been living in Asia for 21 years and hasn’t been to Australia for 2 or more years

That was due to him not being able to enter Vietnam since he did not have a visa for there.

He should of been able to request going to another nearby country.

[Salerno]

8 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

... what incentive do the detention IOs have to trick you into signing something that locks everyone into that situation?

As I understand it, part of what you sign to is allowing them to charge you for your time in detention.

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Salerno said:

As I understand it, part of what you sign to is allowing them to charge you for your time in detention.

And agreeing to buy a ticket from the airline.

It's a win/win situation for immigration and the airline.

[borderlesss]

If i remember correctly (i read it a couple times before i signed it) there is 3-4 sections on this and each of them are translated into english.

 

- they address it to "alien" or something at the top

- not allowed into thailand

- state a reason "insufficient means for being in thailand" or something like that, i remember the numbers 12 and 2 (they didnt care how much money i had on me or in my bank account)

- must stay in the detention centre, must not try to run or any other BS, must be ready for expulsion at any time

 

i dont remember anything about payment or airlines on this document, that doesn't mean there isn't any interaction between paying for detention center and this document but it isnt stated explicitly

 

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, borderlesss said:

2) these are the only people in the world who can help you at the moment, pissing them off by refusing to sign routine paper work might not be a good idea

They aren't trying to help you, they are conspiring to commit a crime (illegal deportation) against you.

They both make money from you signing, and you're also admitting to attempting an illegal entry into the country. In your case a false confession, as you had money and are also agreeing to an illegal detention and deportation.

A Thai speaker/reader who previously posted claimed he didn't sign and was subsequently allowed to book his own ticket out to a destination of his choice.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Tayaout said:

If you choose Cambodia to come back then avoid Ayutthaya/Poipet at all cost.

It's Aranyaprathet / Poipet (Ayutthaya is near Bangkok).

 

Quote

You don't need a fixer and the limit is 2 visa exempt at land border per calendar year and not limit with a visa. You should get a SETV before trying again but it might not even be necessary. At least via land border they will simply bounce you back and won't put you in detention. 

I would not try for a Tourist Visa in Phnom Penh.  They like to put a "VOID" stamp on them there after taking your money and wasting your time.  I don't think the (*) running that consulate now, would like the look of a denied-entry stamp.

 

2 hours ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

Why did you sign that form? They're going to force you back to canada and make you pay for the flight yourself

The form does not change the destination, necessarily - but i would not sign it either. 

 

1 hour ago, borderlesss said:

Since I now have an overstay stamp and a 'denied entry' stamp on whatever it is, I do have concerns I'll be able to get in via land border even. Is that concern warranted? I mean are the IOs at land borders just blindly stamping people through?

They are following the actual laws of Thailand, which is why people are stamped-through - even immediately after an IO denies-entry based on a LIE at an airport.  Unless you didn't have the money to afford staying in Thailand 30-days, the 12(2) reason for rejection Was A Lie - and it is inapplicable to tourist-entries, in any case.

 

Quote

Alternatively I could be at the Thai embassy in ho chi Minh tomorrow morning when it opens. A bit concerned since I've gotten an SETV here before + the 2 new ugly stamps. 

One other SETV is not a high-count - and is that Visa in your current (new) passport?  If not, it doesn't exist, as far as they are concerned. 

 

But, you might be questioned about the rejected-entry stamp.  Explain they didn't think you had money, and show them a printout of your bank balance with a nice, high figure.  You will also need proof of a flight out of Thailand, and possibly proof of where you will stay (a condo-lease is fine).

 

But, even with a Tourist Visa, I would not try flying into Thailand with a longer-stay tourist-history.  If I had to fly-in, it would be with a Tourist Visa, and direct to Chiang Mai - not any flight that goes through Bangkok, where you could be subjected to the lying IOs there.

Edited April 24, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

...

A Thai speaker/reader who previously posted claimed he didn't sign and was subsequently allowed to book his own ticket out to a destination of his choice.

Only with the same airline he flew in with, though.  The OP's airline seems to only go to PP from BKK.

[Rama]

you're just the exact person immigration is targeting, someone who is gaming the system - you're living in bkk - you're not 'traveling' - have a lease agreement, etc., you're not a tourist! get a real visa!

[BritManToo]

22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Only with the same airline he flew in with, though.  The OP's airline seems to only go to PP from BKK.

if you sat there with your smartphone and booked a ticket out in 2-4 hours time, I think it'd be hard for them to justify not letting you get on it. There are flights to KUL every 30 minutes for about 2,000bht.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[Isaanbiker]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Your passport will almost certainly be marked 'refused entry for insufficient funds' by Thai immigration.

If you fly to PP, they don't appear to care all that much about Thai refusal stamps.

Suvannakhet in Laos might be the place to buy a tourist VISA, the Thai land boarder there is very easy going.

 

Vietnam are a bit funny about 'refusal stamps', but if you try to enter I'd be interested in hearing what happens.

+ 1. Savannakhet seems to be the best option for the OP. 

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, Rama said:

you're just the exact person immigration is targeting, someone who is gaming the system -

He is following the rules, actually.  The IOs claiming he doesn't have proof of money not required for a tourist-entry in the first place are the ones being dishonest.

 

Quote

you're living in bkk - you're not 'traveling' - have a lease agreement, etc., you're not a tourist! get a real visa!

He just arrived on a plane - clearly he was traveling.

 

14 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Your self confessed inner retard decided that the time spent getting a SETV before your current detention wasn't worth it. Now look around and see where that got you.

Yes, he learned a hard lesson about the dishonestly of Thai immigration at bad entry-points.

Edited April 24, 2019 by JackThompson