Does negative posting cause expats to leave or not come to Thailand

[Destiny1990]

Everybody should just go here themselves and post honestly their experiences here on tvf.

If in last years majority of posts became much more negative than who is to blame?

 

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

The whole negative versus positive paradigm needs to be dropped. What's important is whether a poster is being honest. Someone who dishonestly claims everything's perfect is doing just as much, if not more, potential damage than someone who dishonestly claims Thailand is going down the tubes. If a post honestly reflects the poster's thoughts and feelings, the post has value and should be welcomed.

I can't think of any positive rumors that have been started on Thai Visa.  I can think of a few negative ones though.  There was the one about Farang couldn't marry Thai women.  Didn't that start here?  Maybe you can think of some positive ones but it seems to me there are only negative posts and people trying to disprove the false rumors.  There's been a hundred posts lately about having to lock up your money in a Thai bank.  Is that true?  There has been 100 posts about Thai banks being insolvent and one not being able to take money out of Thailand - Is that true.  I'd agree with you if there were any positive rumors started on Thai Visa but really I think it is only negative false information and people trying to correct it are labeled as Thai apologists.   

[totally thaied up]

14 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

 

I was surprised by the lack of interest compared to when I first departed in 2009.

The negative feedback since my holiday here has shocked me.  Total lack of interest in Thailand and everyone at my local pub is asking me have I been to Cambodia or Vietnam. 

[Odysseus123]

Just now, totally thaied up said:

The negative feedback since my holiday here has shocked me.  Total lack of interest in Thailand and everyone at my local pub is asking me have I been to Cambodia or Vietnam. 

Yes absolutely..

 

Even my rather ravishing pathology vampire stated..'I am sorry but I do not like Thailand and prefer Bali."

 

I said "okay".

 

I know that your folk's situation is different but no Aussie that I have met has ever heard of TV-thus its "turf wars" would probably go unnoticed.

[Destiny1990]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I can't think of any positive rumors that have been started on Thai Visa.  I can think of a few negative ones though.  There was the one about Farang couldn't marry Thai women.  Didn't that start here?  Maybe you can think of some positive ones but it seems to me there are only negative posts and people trying to disprove the false rumors.  There's been a hundred posts lately about having to lock up your money in a Thai bank.  Is that true?  There has been 100 posts about Thai banks being insolvent and one not being able to take money out of Thailand - Is that true.  I'd agree with you if there were any positive rumors started on Thai Visa but really I think it is only negative false information and people trying to correct it are labeled as Thai apologists.   

Many positive rumors on tvf but all where false..

Can u even come up with one single thing clearly improved for us here in recent years?

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Many positive rumors on tvf but all where false..

Can u even come up with one single thing clearly improved for us here in recent years?

Cheese has got a lot cheaper in the last year!

(Beston Cheddar @ 350bht/Kg)

[geoffbezoz]

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Many positive rumors on tvf but all where false..

Can u even come up with one single thing clearly improved for us here in recent years?

The numbers of flights out of Thailand has increased????

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Many positive rumors on tvf but all where false..

Can u even come up with one single thing clearly improved for us here in recent years?

You can't list one positive rumor can you?  I could answer your question I was discussing rumors in response to another poster.  I said no tells positive lies about Thailand.  Name a couple if I'm wrong. 

[marcusarelus]

Just now, geoffbezoz said:

The numbers of flights out of Thailand has increased????

I don't have to drive to Bangkok and pay the embassy for an income letter.  Now I can get it for a pittance at my local bank.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Many positive rumors on tvf but all where false..

Can u even come up with one single thing clearly improved for us here in recent years?

Yes, I can think of some recent ones.

Such as when Big Joke went the recent onerous changes would magically get reversed.

Like all corrupt visa agents can deal with the new changes, same as before.

My current info says -- NOPE. 

Like legal gay marriage is coming soon and that would help some gay expats -- NOPE

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

You can't list one positive rumor can you?  I could answer your question I was discussing rumors in response to another poster.  I said no tells positive lies about Thailand.  Name a couple if I'm wrong. 

I just did.

[geoffbezoz]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

I don't have to drive to Bangkok and pay the embassy for an income letter.  Now I can get it for a pittance at my local bank.

But have you tried it yet  ?

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yes, I can think of some recent ones.

Such as when Big Joke went the recent onerous changes would magically get reversed.

Like all corrupt visa agents can deal with the new changes, same as before.

My current info says -- NOPE. 

Like legal gay marriage is coming soon and that would help some gay expats -- NOPE

No one said those were facts.  Farangs not being able to marry Thais was posted as a fact.  Money being held as ransom in a Thai bank was posted as a fact.  Visa changes were responsible for many expats leaving Thailand was posted as a fact. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I just did.

No you didn't you listed discussions.  List one positive rumor that was stated as a fact. 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

But have you tried it yet  ?

I inquired of an Immigration official and was told that was the case and I requested my 12 month statement from my bank yesterday. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't have to drive to Bangkok and pay the embassy for an income letter.  Now I can get it for a pittance at my local bank.

That's a tiny slice of the picture and you know it.

Spinned it actually in a way that disingenuously presents a MASSIVE BURDEN for many trying to sell it as an overall benefit. 

It is NOT. 

I would go so far as saying that trying to sell this onerous change as good news is total GASLIGHTING.

Required IMPORT of funds is always a negative feature of any immigration scheme in any country compared to the past without letter -- no required import. 

If they dropped the required import and we could show deposits abroad it would be a positive change.

That's just common sense. 

 

Without the letter, you must import at least 65K per month and in some offices --

 

Foreign import must be clear 

Needs to be every month about the same time

One baht under 65K -- FAIL

Missed month, double up? -- FAIL

Not showing the full 12 months -- possible FAIL in some offices this year, in all offices later

65K not provable as PENSION income -- possible FAIL in some offices

Combo method if you're importing under 65K -- extremely problematic in many offices (rules unclear) and may not even be possible at all in some offices

 

 

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That a tiny slice of the picture and you know it.

Spinned it actually in a way that ingenuously presents a MASSIVE BURDEN for many trying to sell it as an overall benefit.

It is NOT. 

 

Without the letter, you must import at least 65K per month and in some offices --

 

Foreign import must be clear 

Needs to be every month about the same time

One baht under 65K -- FAIL

Missed month, double up? -- FAIL

Not showing the full 12 months -- possible FAIL in some offices this year, in all offices later

65K not provable as PENSION income -- possible FAIL in some offices

Combo method if you're importing under 65K -- extremely problematic in many offices (rules unclear) and may not even be possible at all in some offices

Good example.  I mentioned one fact.  I can get an income extension with a letter from the bank instead of a letter from the embassy.  That's a fact and a true statement. 

 

That is the only change from last year in the income method.  That's a fact.  The overwhelming number of embassies did not change the income letter only 3 lazy embassies have changed it and you are trying to lay the blame on Thai Immigration. 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No you didn't you listed discussions.  List one positive rumor that was stated as a fact. 

You didn't say facts before and I contest that the distinction makes much difference anyway in the context of a net forum. You were talking about RUMORS before, positive rumors, I gave you some.

Do you really want an honest debate, or do you want to just try to continue to GASLIGHT people such as trying to sell a big lie that ending the embassy letters and requiring full monthly imports is good news?

I guess I know the answer already from someone that tried to characterize a six or seven month lockup of 400K as a "few" months.

 

[bwpage3]

Negative posts are a way for some folks to confirm their actions to leave Thailand because others are doing the same and it may give them the confidence to pull the plug.

 

Others, even though they will never admit it, have hopelessly trapped themselves in Thailand. Negative posts have no affect on these folks.

 

However, coming to Thailand?

 

How many would come to Thailand if Thai women weren't stupidly easy, cheap and available?

 

If posts all pointed that there were NO available, easy women in Thailand, no one would come here.

 

Does any one move to Madagascar because of the low cost and weather?

 

The posts you really have to watch out for are from the folks that have trapped themselves in Thailand and spin the "This is the greatest place on Earth".

 

Despite not seeing past your hand in the Chiang Mai Smoke, Bangkok traffic and air pollution, tons of plastics floating around in the sea, monsoon rains 6 months out of the year and flooding, extremely hot and humid weather, not understanding the language or being able to read signs, 90 day reporting, no reciprocity to own land or have any other basic rights,  you name it, how can Thailand be the greatest place on Earth?

 

Some folks simply will not tell it the way it is no matter what and those are the most dangerous posts of all.

 

 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Good example.  I mentioned one fact.  I can get an income extension with a letter from the bank instead of a letter from the embassy.  That's a fact and a true statement. 

 

That is the only change from last year in the income method.  That's a fact.  The overwhelming number of embassies did not change the income letter only 3 lazy embassies have changed it and you are trying to lay the blame on Thai Immigration. 

 

There have been changes to all methods except full income with letters. Why you think you can post blatantly FALSE information as above and not get called  on is pretty amazing. 

 

800K? Seasoning greatly expanded, now covering all year, including in offices that require a 3 month post extension check, the real threat of having the annual extension cancelled.

 

Income method? 

Yes it's the same for people that can get letters.

 

Income method without letters --

Major change. Major NEGATIVE change as I've described. You tried to suggest the change was POSITIVE. No. No, it wasn't. 

 

Combo method --

Very problematical now with or without embassy letter. Because even with an embassy letter it also uses the bank method which now includes some level of YEAR LONG seasoning (pre and post).

 

I consider your comment about who I blamed or didn't blame for the end of the embassy letters and to what degree to be inflammatory and I will not dignify that with a response. 

[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a tiny slice of the picture and you know it.

Spinned it actually in a way that disingenuously presents a MASSIVE BURDEN for many trying to sell it as an overall benefit. 

It is NOT. 

I would go so far as saying that trying to sell this onerous change as good news is total GASLIGHTING.

Required IMPORT of funds is always a negative feature of any immigration scheme in any country compared to the past without letter -- no required import. 

If they dropped the required import and we could show deposits abroad it would be a positive change.

That's just common sense. 

 

Without the letter, you must import at least 65K per month and in some offices --

 

Foreign import must be clear 

Needs to be every month about the same time

One baht under 65K -- FAIL

Missed month, double up? -- FAIL

Not showing the full 12 months -- possible FAIL in some offices this year, in all offices later

65K not provable as PENSION income -- possible FAIL in some offices

Combo method if you're importing under 65K -- extremely problematic in many offices (rules unclear) and may not even be possible at all in some offices

Forgive me for using your post twice but it's a good example.  A person outside of the system who didn't have access to Immigration officers would think that was a major change.  But that's overwhelming and onerously false.

 

What really happened?

 

Three lazy embassies (the overwhelming minority) stopped issuing income letters.  And the Thai Immigration said - no problem.  Get a statement from the bank and save 5000 baht and you can get the income extension no problem. 

[Destiny1990]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You can't list one positive rumor can you?  I could answer your question I was discussing rumors in response to another poster.  I said no tells positive lies about Thailand.  Name a couple if I'm wrong. 

I can only come up with uncountable positive false rumors..

Can u come up with some positive real rumors?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Forgive me for using your post twice but it's a good example.  A person outside of the system who didn't have access to Immigration officers would think that was a major change.  But that's overwhelming and onerously false.

 

What really happened?

 

Three lazy embassies (the overwhelming minority) stopped issuing income letters.  And the Thai Immigration said - no problem.  Get a statement from the bank and save 5000 baht and you can get the income extension no problem. 

Extremely disingenuous.
Yes, there has been a major and very onerous change for people wanting to use the income method without embassy letter.

I detailed the issues with that, and yet you continue to put on a big act that those issues don't exist, at least in some offices.

As far as the combo method which is a mix of income and bank, the situation now is even darker and yes that was a result of these recent onerous changes.

You can say 1000 times that there haven't been major negative changes, but that doesn't make that true.

 

[watcharacters]

45 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't have to drive to Bangkok and pay the embassy for an income letter.  Now I can get it for a pittance at my local bank.

 

Did you not bother to take advantage of the Embassy Outreach Program?

 

 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Did you not bother to take advantage of the Embassy Outreach Program?

I don't live anywhere they go. 

[bwpage3]

Thai News in general refuses to post a lot of stories that would negatively affect tourism.

 

Posting a photo of a nice blue coral sea, when it fact there are 10 tons of plastics floating around.

 

If you take the time, you realize that some people on the forum like Ubonjoe know what they are talking about and there are things to be learned.

 

There are other posters that just are so full of it, they think Thailand is the greatest place on earth and spend everyday trying to convince everyone else this is the truth.

 

If you weed out all the posts from those people, many who have trapped themselves in Thailand one way or the other, there is always something to learn from negative experiences.

 

Many people have experienced huge financial loss, divorce, loss of their children, etc. These are not stories you are going to read about in the Thai news and it is best to be aware of realistically bad things that do happen in Thailand.

 

It is best, as many others have stated, to read whatever you can and gleam what ever data you need for yourself.

 

I first visited Thailand as a tourist in 1984 and it always stuck with me what a wonderful place it was.

 

Then I moved there and in 2013 I decided it wasn't such a nice place and moved back to the USA.

 

I read tons of post that confirmed many of the things I had already decided on.

 

In the end, the decision was what was best for my future, my family and their future.

 

Had nothing to do with negative posts.

 

If you live in Thailand long enough, you will experience many negative things first hand and do not need to rely on negative posts.

 

Posters that share their personal heartache and loss? There is always something to learn there.

 

With no reciprocity, 90 day reporting, annual visa renewals, it says a lot about how the Thai govt feels about expats.

 

Do not need to read a negative post to understand that.

 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Extremely disingenuous.
Yes, there has been a major and very onerous change for people wanting to use the income method without embassy letter.

I detailed the issues with that, and yet you continue to put on a big act that those issues don't exist, at least in some offices.

As far as the combo method which is a mix of income and bank, the situation now is even darker and yes that was a result of these recent onerous changes.

You can say 1000 times that there haven't been major negative changes, but that doesn't make that true.

I did not say one thing that was not true.  I only talked about the income method as I was answering a posters question about a positive change.  The embassy made a negative change and Thai immigration made a positive change as a result of three nations letting down their citizens. 

 

The only issue that relates it to this topic is positive vs negative posts that can cause expats to leave or not come to Thailand.  It would be my contention that there are no positive rumors only positive facts.  There are negative and positive facts but only negative rumors.  And I have to take a portion back because I did just remember that there was a rumor that you could do the 90 day report at 7/11 once if I remember correctly.  So not never but the overwhelming majority of rumors are negative. 

[Jingthing]

I think I know how to settle this.

How about a poll where the people that can still get embassy letters are asked would you like to see your embassy stop issuing letters so that you can have the great privilege of having to apply for an income method application the same wonderful super easy way as the nationals that can no longer get letters?

 

Reminds me of a Swiftian modest proposal.

 

Expats will be clamoring now. Stop the letters!

 

Back to the real world.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

I don't live anywhere they go. 

Good for you.

However don't come crying on here if there is some kind of mechanical issue with a monthly transfer or a similar innocently possible occurrence that screws up a future application.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

I did not say one thing that was not true.  I only talked about the income method as I was answering a posters question about a positive change.  The embassy made a negative change and Thai immigration made a positive change as a result of three nations letting down their citizens. 

 

The only issue that relates it to this topic is positive vs negative posts that can cause expats to leave or not come to Thailand.  It would be my contention that there are no positive rumors only positive facts.  There are negative and positive facts but only negative rumors.  And I have to take a portion back because I did just remember that there was a rumor that you could do the 90 day report at 7/11 once if I remember correctly.  So not never but the overwhelming majority of rumors are negative. 

Giving incomplete information can be a form of deception. You try to sell the changes for people without letters as overall positive when it's obviously overall negative.

 

Don't believe me?

 

 

Start the poll I suggested.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app