Has the proof of income ie a monthly 65k deposited in to a thai bank changed to, it has to be a pension income

[berrec]

I recently went through the same visa NON Immg O renewal process at CW, had every piece of original financial paperwork that showed each tracking step of funds transferred from my investment property rental income in Aus via bank deposits and debits and TransferWise foreign transaction records into BKK Bank.

 

I did not have a BKK Bank supporting confirmation letter of my monthly foreign income transfers, I had tried prior to the visa application at three banks where we hold accounts and all said they could not provide such letter of monthly foreign income verification.

 

The Immigration officer said my financial paper work looked OK but I needed the Bank's supporting letter, my wife explained we had tried unsuccessfully to get the letter, the officer pulled out a prior clients application with a BKK Bank letter of monthly foreign income.

 

Went back to the BBK bank branches showed them a copy of the letter but they were still in denial about producing the letter required by immigration for me, brain dead morons...........just said NO.....even told me that they had contacted head office and head office said no!

 

Interesting the BKK Bank branches we dealt with would not know which way was up!

 

I am going to out the branches here; Rama 9, The Walk and Central Festival Eastville.

 

I gave up dealing with these BKK bank branch morons and as additionally they had my wife stressed out with their BS approach I went to a visa agent to sort it out............in the end the LO$ won over again.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, berrec said:

I gave up dealing with these BKK bank branch morons and as additionally they had my wife stressed out with their BS approach I went to a visa agent to sort it out............in the end the LO$ won over again.

 

AT CW Immigration in BKK, they are going to want an official BKKB letter confirming your account and probably either a summary of, or the actual copies of, the credit advice documents for each foreign transfer.

 

AFAIK, the BKKB branch at CW should be able to provide a confirming letter for your account, ie that you own this account and have some particular balance as of that day. But I'm not sure if they'd be able to provide a summary of, or copies of, all the credit advice letters for each of your transfers.

 

Normally, your home branch can provide the confirming letter AND either a summary of your foreign transfer transaction and/or the individual credit advice slips for those. If your particular BKKB branch is clueless, even after showing them an example letter, perhaps it's time to change BKKB branches, perhaps dealing with the main office in the Chongnonsi area.

 

From the few reports here recently coming out of BKK CW for monthly transfer extensions, I'm not sure whether BKK CW is willing to accept just a single bank letter that lists each monthly transfer in summary form, or whether they'll want the more detailed individual credit advice letters for each separate transfer.

 

If anyone who's done a monthly transfers extension at BKK CW lately can shed any light on that, that would be a big help to everyone following in your footsteps.

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's what one version of the BKKB summary letters look like for foreign monthly transfers:

 

 

If it helps at all, apparently, the above letters are pretty similar in wording to the standard letter that BKKB uses when a farang imports money into Thailand for purposes of buying a condo. So if the bank staff don't know what you're talking about, you can try telling them same like letter confirming foreign funds transfer to buy a condo.

 

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, berrec said:

Went back to the BBK bank branches showed them a copy of the letter

Can you post a copy of the BK Bank letter here...

Would not a 12 month statement showing the foreign deposits and the regular bank balance letter (same as used for the 800k method) from BK Bank be accepted by the immigration officer?

[DogNo1]

I was not required to show the source of my monthly 65,000 baht FTT transfers earlier this month at Chaeng Wattana. 

[sfokevin]

4 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I was not required to show the source of my monthly 65,000 baht FTT transfers earlier this month at Chaeng Wattana. 

You did not have an embassy income letter correct?

Just presented Thai bank statements/Letter?

How many months of 65K did you provide?...

A full 12 months or just thru January?

[bigginhill]

Is it possibile if refused in ones own immigration office to go to a more friendly immigration office elsewhere?

(Checking into a hotel and doing Tm30 there).

There,s no obbligation to do it in the same immigration office as the year before no? Could a new immigration office refuse a new extension..er?

[Thaidream]

The continued reports of legitimate applicants with the required funds and documentation being turned away by various Thai Immigration offices has caused undue stress and harm to the expat community.

 

I would hope that each person who experiences these issues would send a letter to their respective Embassy (US/UK/AUS) explaining the problems they are having/had and request reinstatement of the Embassy Letter.  The Embassies that stopped these letters need to know the chaos they have created and the lives impacted.

 

The CM interpretation of pension  is troubling as the US Embassy staff did an outreach there prior to the elimination of the Embassy Letter explaining various documentation and proof of income to include income derived from pensions; stocks/bonds etc. as well as other such as rental income. Either they do not understand their own police orders or they are trying to force agent use.

[mtls2005]

11 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Can you post a copy of the BK Bank letter here...

Would not a 12 month statement showing the foreign deposits and the regular bank balance letter (same as used for the 800k method) from BK Bank be accepted by the immigration officer?

 

I think the sample letter referenced is the same as the one Pib posted, in Thai, "received money from abroad" box ticked, along with a list of the qualifying foreign transfers.

 

A twelve-month BBL statement (100 baht; each page stamped, signed and certified) and a same day certification letter (100 baht; ownership, balance) may prove to be acceptable to certain IOs? Grinding through 15 pages ( my 4-month statement was three pages with the four qualifying transfers moderately easy to pick out ) might be better avoided, although it does show 'usage' of funds via ATM withdrawals for living expenses. BTW, my transfers are denoted on my statement as "Foreign T/T", which is different than my passbook (FTT - understanding that these are the same, with one shortened to a code) or on iBanking ("Foreign Transfer"). 

Edited April 27, 2019 by mtls2005

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, bigginhill said:

Is it possibile if refused in ones own immigration office to go to a more friendly immigration office elsewhere?

(Checking into a hotel and doing Tm30 there).

You have to apply for the extension where your are living.

Checking into hotel for a night or two would not be accepted. They would immediately suspect you are office shopping to avoid your home office.

[onera1961]

On 4/25/2019 at 2:17 AM, ubonjoe said:

According to that they cannot legally reject your application for not having proof of a pension.

And if they reject you have recourse to a court of law to redress your grievances. People throw the "legal" words like they cannot legally deny you entry, they cannot legally do this or do that in an authoritarian country. Unless you have recourse to the court of law, "legality" has no meaning. It may be good for venting your anger in forums like this. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by onera1961

[SEtonal]

18 hours ago, xkkpafi said:

First, I thought letters from some embassies (obviously not the US) were still accepted. So what you imply is that the 65k monthly or 800k in the bank is still a requirement even with those countries still providing letters because these letters are not proof of income? So what would be the point of these countries providing letters if they have no meaning? Getting really confusing now I must say.

Based on this extension report and others, it appears that at many Immigration Offices the monthly 65k method is going to be reserved only for those with either: 1. a pension or 2. an Embassy Income Verification Letter or 3. both a pension and an Embassy Letter. 

 

Phuket Immigration requires those with an Embassy Letter transfer the 65k monthly into a Thai bank account. So many Norwegians have left because of this policy that the Norwegian Consulate in Phuket is closing. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1096450-renewal-of-extension-retirement/?tab=comments#comment-14067476

 

In 2020, Phetchabun Immigration will only accept the monthly 65k method from those with both a pension and an Embassy Letter.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1083530-the-latest-info-on-retirement-visas-from-immigration

 

After the new head of Krabi Immigration recently took office, the 65k method was denied for those without Embassy Letters, leaving the 800k method as the only option for a retirement extension. https://youtu.be/FXypQakSCfo?t=48 

 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

And if they reject you have recourse to a court of law to redress your grievances. People throw the "legal" words like they cannot legally deny you entry, they cannot legally do this or do that in an authoritarian country.

Legally was just an easy way to say it since it not required according to the police orders. Perhaps rightfully or there is no basis to deny the application would of been words.

A call to the 1178 helpline might get some results.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, tigerbalm said:

That seems a very good idear, next time i do a Transferwise Transfer i will look out for any additional comments that can be added to the transfer to include pension that may show up on any Transferwise print outs, Thanks for that.

Regards

TB

There is certainly a field where you can type in some details like that. I expect you could put what you like. Mine usually says SAS Military Pension.

[SEtonal]

7 hours ago, sfokevin said:

You did not have an embassy income letter correct?

Just presented Thai bank statements/Letter?

How many months of 65K did you provide?...

A full 12 months or just thru January?

He posted a report earlier this month.  At the beginning of the thread, he mentioned having "pension-like sources each month (SS, CALSTRS and a retirement annuity.)", but later said in post 31 that Immigration didn't ask for proof of the source of money.

 

 

[tigerbalm]

16 hours ago, berrec said:

I recently went through the same visa NON Immg O renewal process at CW, had every piece of original financial paperwork that showed each tracking step of funds transferred from my investment property rental income in Aus via bank deposits and debits and TransferWise foreign transaction records into BKK Bank.

 

I did not have a BKK Bank supporting confirmation letter of my monthly foreign income transfers, I had tried prior to the visa application at three banks where we hold accounts and all said they could not provide such letter of monthly foreign income verification.

 

The Immigration officer said my financial paper work looked OK but I needed the Bank's supporting letter, my wife explained we had tried unsuccessfully to get the letter, the officer pulled out a prior clients application with a BKK Bank letter of monthly foreign income.

 

Went back to the BBK bank branches showed them a copy of the letter but they were still in denial about producing the letter required by immigration for me, brain dead morons...........just said NO.....even told me that they had contacted head office and head office said no!

 

Interesting the BKK Bank branches we dealt with would not know which way was up!

 

I am going to out the branches here; Rama 9, The Walk and Central Festival Eastville.

 

I gave up dealing with these BKK bank branch morons and as additionally they had my wife stressed out with their BS approach I went to a visa agent to sort it out............in the end the LO$ won over again.

 

 

 

Hi

Here is a copy of a BKK Bank letter Immigration showed me to present to the Bank. worked ok

Instead of asking for a letter of monthly foreign income just ask them for monthly Bank statements which i was supplied with and then just high light the Monthly FTT deposits 

Might be an alternative Regards

TB  

[onera1961]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:14 AM, Jingthing said:

So you're suggesting what? That most US retired expats in Thailand have a pension over 65k monthly? Based on what? Guessing? I told you a FACT. The average US social security check is much less. Too bad that the combo method has been trashed as that has been the answer for that for those using income under 65k.

Maximum SS check in 2018 was $2788 at full retirement age. At 70 it could be 3698. And the average SS check is a paltry sum of $1368.

[vcpeters]

I was able to get extension based on monthly transfers of at least 65,000 baht solely based on certified bank statement from Bangkok Bank. Here is account of my experience: When to Korat to renew on 10 April - I had copies of bank statements that I copied off of internet - this was not acceptable. Had pension and social security statements - they didn't care - had bank transfers in dollars from my ETrade bank - they didn't care. Told to get 1 year certified bank statement. We went to closest Bangkok Bank to start process - they were aware of this process (went to BuaYai our home bank on 9 April and they had no idea about this requirement). Went to Bangkok Bank to get 1 year statement on 19 April (took 8 days for statement) I signed for statement than had to get Bank Official to go through all transactions and certify (took 1 hour at bank) - this document is only valid for 1 day!!! Went to Korat Immigration and presented Bank Statement to the students who went through every line item ( remember bank already certified and had done the same). Since 1 year ago I did not know that USA was not going to grant Income Statements I was lucky that I had moved at least 65k every month. The range of transfers per month was 65,750 to over 1,000,000 per month but the basis of transfers was based on the lowest transfer of 65,750. Now we take a number and wait for Immigration Official - took her 1 hour and 20 minutes to get my passport stamped - she went through every transaction again. Total cost was 7,200 baht - had to pay for 3 day overstay and multiple entry Visa. Hope this is helpful to someone!

[Jingthing]

Maximum SS check in 2018 was $2788 at full retirement age. At 70 it could be 3698. And the average SS check is a paltry sum of $1368.

Exactly. We need a reliable COMBO METHOD and regardless of what a police order says all that really matters is what happens between the expats and the officers at the local offices. Since the major changes even more so with no embassy letter the reality on the ground is that the combo method has become extremely problematical. The rules are very unclear. The officers have a hard time explaining them even if they understand them themselves. Specifics about mechanical enforcement can vary very much depending on office and officer you talk to. Even if you've had a conversation with local officer there is no assurance that how you understood the conversation will be honored at the actual time of application. The applications are complicated to process. Possibly some offices won't even try. So whether they are technically supported based on a document from Bangkok or not applicants generally can't plan for combo applications with confidence. Sure they can try but the level of uncertainty is just unreasonably high. Alternative? The 800k bank method where the rules are at least very clear even if the consequences of non compliance during post seasoning are not.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[hadi8253]

I get every year a letter from my embassy, that my penson is 70+K THB.

I can proofe (bank account), that every month about 40K THB from outside TH are sent to my account: Thai bank.

It's enough for me to "survive" (have car and house, eat farang food, smoke and drink alcohol, have health insurance and support family) Very happy ...

I'm not married.

My question: OK for extension of retirement visum ???

OR do I have to transfer (and proof) 65K every month to my account ???

 

[Jingthing]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 10:55 AM, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct.

The combination is still available. Just look at the police order and it is still there.

You apparently you are basing that on rumors about one office not allowing it.

Allow me to clarify.

I shouldn't have used the word "trashed" to describe the combo method.

You are correct that it exists in the police order.

The word I have been mostly using to describe the current real situation with the combo method is PROBLEMATIC.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/problematic

Police orders and the actual situations at offices are not the same thing.

It is my strong opinion, and you may of course disagree, it is not good advice to generally suggest to people that they can RELY on trying a combo method application.

Maybe it will be reliable at some offices currently, maybe it will be more reliable at most offices NEXT YEAR.

But for now, I think there is just way too much uncertainty. 

The consequences of a failed application can be very consequential for many expats. I just don't think we should be promoting an unusually problematic method when there is an option available to many that is MUCH more clear and reliable. You may not agree with me about this. That's fine of course. Readers here can read both POVs and make their own adult free will decisions about the risks they want to take.

 

Expansion --

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[UKresonant]

4 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Maximum SS check in 2018 was $2788 at full retirement age. At 70 it could be 3698. And the average SS check is a paltry sum of $1368.

That sounds better than the U.K. Pension which is approx 22 to 28k baht ish, plus some bells & whistle add ON's, that are (accrual) capped or phased out since 2015. I presume the US payments are index linked?

 

As I've said before I could prove pension income and other legitimate savings in the UK (to the Thai Embassy London perhaps), but once it is re-sent to Thailand, it is just savings that are transferred, but it would generally have it's source from pensions originally! (There is no link once  it's hit the bank in home country it's just.comparable amounts, and no one source could do 65k B in it's self even if it could be sent to Thailand directly). 

A picture here of increasing non-viability for the for extention termed "retirement" then? ???? 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by johnwf1963

[DogNo1]

I presented two financial documents at Chaeng Wattana when I received my one-year extension earlier this month: a bank-certified statement of my past six months’ transactions which included transfers from abroad of over 65,000 baht for the months of January, February and March and a statement from the bank certifying my ownership of the account.  I obtained these from the branch at Indra Square two weeks prior to the submission of my application although my account is located at the Phantip branch.  The immigration officer required me to get a new document certifying my ownership of the account dated the day of my application.  This was easily done at the Bangkok Bank branch downstairs.  Each document cost me 100 baht.  These two documents were accepted as proof of my retirement income. No proof of the source of my funds was required.   I think that offices that require documentation of the source of the funds transferred into Thailand are either willingly or unwillingly misinterpreting the police order.  Ubonjoe has posted the pertinent wording of the police order and it does not state that the funds must only come from pensions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

I presented two financial documents at Chaeng Wattana when I received my one-year extension earlier this month: a bank-certified statement of my past six months’ transactions which included transfers from abroad of over 65,000 baht for the months of January, February and March and a statement from the bank certifying my ownership of the account.  I obtained these from the branch at Indra Square two weeks prior to the submission of my application although my account is located at the Phantip branch.  The immigration officer required me to get a new document certifying my ownership of the account dated the day of my application.  This was easily done at the Bangkok Bank branch downstairs.  Each document cost me 100 baht.  These two documents were accepted as proof of my retirement income. No proof of the source of my funds was required.   I think that offices that require documentation of the source of the funds transferred into Thailand are either willingly or unwillingly misinterpreting the police order.  Ubonjoe has posted the pertinent wording of the police order and it does not state that the funds must only come from pensions.

 

Couple of things:

 

1. So CW Immigration was OK with the fact that the bank statement showing your past transactions, including your foreign transfers, was several weeks old by the time you presented it... But... they wanted the separate bank letter confirming your ownership of the account to be dated the same day?

 

2. Was the bank printout of your past transactions just that, a line by line summary of all your account activity for the prior 6 months? Thus did the IO have to search for and find your foreign transfers amidst all the other account activity?  Or was the document just specific only to your foreign transfer activity?

 

[JackThompson]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:58 AM, hadi8253 said:

I get every year a letter from my embassy, that my penson is 70+K THB.

I can proofe (bank account), that every month about 40K THB from outside TH are sent to my account: Thai bank.

It's enough for me to "survive" (have car and house, eat farang food, smoke and drink alcohol, have health insurance and support family) Very happy ...

I'm not married.

My question: OK for extension of retirement visum ???

OR do I have to transfer (and proof) 65K every month to my account ???

 

That depends on the office where you apply.  Based on reports, you would be fine with just the embassy-letter as a primary-evidence proof of your income at CW Bangkok.

 

At some other offices, they seem to be doing things which go beyond the police-order - demanding all declared income is a "state pension" and proof of this (pension letters) - demanding to see proof it is transferred to Thailand every month, etc.  Proof of the 70K deposited monthly into a foreign-account might also work for secondary evidence, but up to the IO what they feel like asking for.

Edited April 30, 2019 by JackThompson

[Changoverandout]

My U.K. pension goes directly into my Bangkok bank account but has a BTN (bahtnet) code whereas when I send money from private pensions via transferwise the code is FTT (foreign transfer).

I have a letter from DWP stating my pension goes directly into my Thai bank which I hope will suffice.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, Changoverandout said:

My U.K. pension goes directly into my Bangkok bank account but has a BTN (bahtnet) code whereas when I send money from private pensions via transferwise the code is FTT (foreign transfer).

The reason you have the BTN code is that your payment are going through a intermediary bank. Others have stated they have been to told that they are being sent visa Citibank. It is possible to get a credit advice from the bank to prove the source or the income or you could contact Citibank for a printout of your transfers.

[sfokevin]

Visa agent in Chiang Mai are saying proof of pension Income seems to be a requirement...

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by sfokevin