Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: It's an interesting thread, but you worded it to be entirely about the belief in a 'god'. I suspect that a majority don't believe in a 'god', but some of those are open to the idea of the individual 'spirit' being entirely separate from the body? I'm an agnostic (and so couldn't vote), but being an agnostic is not a 'cop out' - it's just realising that there is no genuine proof, so better to keep an open mind. Sorry DD, this same issue came up the last time I started a poll on god-belief a few years back, but I did explain that "agnostic" was intentionally omitted as it deals with knowledge. What else in your life do you believe, do, or pursue without genuine proof, evidence or at least some level of knowledge? NOTHING. I know this from reading your excellent posts over myriad threads. But when it comes to this subject many choose to suspend that level of skepticism. I think you're an atheist...an agnostic atheist...but still an atheist. gnos·tic /ˈnästik/ adjective 1. relating to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge. Since no one has any real, acceptable knowledge or proof of any supernatural god or "spirit" (or anything supernatural)...nor even a real, coherent definition of what those things might be. And while no one can honestly say with absolute 100% certainty that there is no god, even though that is what many of us strongly think, there is still no reason to believe it. In that sense, we are all agnostic. However, the same argument could be used about fairies or leprechauns. Can't prove they don't exist, but no good reason to think they do. Isn't the right time to start believing something is when there is good reason and evidence? And until that time...suspend belief? If the poll topic was Universe Creating Pixies Belief...Yes or NO? I'm guessing there would be ZERO agnostic votes on that one...even though none of us have any knowledge or genuine proof either way. While "I Don't Know" is not a cop out, it doesn't answer the question asked in the poll. For the purpose of my poll...the participant either believes or disbelieves. Believers even got 2 categories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Wilsonandson said: Can we start a new thread on who believes and worships the devil. Sent from my SM-A700FD using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Satan is a god, so technically...even though Satan was not the creator...this poll/thread covers "The Devil" too! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said: Whether there is or isn't, do you really think it matters one little bit whether anyone believes or not? We are less than dust in this universe. While I agree it doesn't matter in the Grand Scheme Of Things and totally get your point...it matters here and now...in reality on Planet Earth. It matters because people are still killing and terrorizing others over it. People are still oppressing other people over it. Science and medicine are being denied to children over it. Knowledge and progress are being repressed because of it. Governments are legislating and making laws because of it. Basic human rights are being violated because of it. And on and on... Yes it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I randomly voted just so I could view the results of the poll.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 On 4/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, villagefarang said: I have no interest in gods, magic or superstition of any kind. Then you live in the wrong country where behind every flower pot a ghost is hiding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, kokopelli said: I randomly voted just so I could view the results of the poll.???? Almost certain there is a "click" to see results without voting. Why "random" and not just cast an accurate vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyMan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 46 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: While I agree it doesn't matter in the Grand Scheme Of Things and totally get your point...it matters here and now...in reality on Planet Earth. It matters because people are still killing and terrorizing others over it. People are still oppressing other people over it. Science and medicine are being denied to children over it. Knowledge and progress are being repressed because of it. Governments are legislating and making laws because of it. Basic human rights are being violated because of it. And on and on... Yes it matters. Let's see, Catholic priests engage in wholesale pedophilia and the Church hides it, covers it up. That's one of the big religions and they'll tell you exactly how much they believe in the existence of God, capital G. Doesn't seem to stop them. Then you can break down the various Christian schisms and take a quick glance at the internecine killing that's been going on between them forever -- Ireland comes to mind -- they're believers. They say that they believe in God, capital G. Doesn't seem to make any difference there, either. I mean, we could continue ad nauseum about this with the Muslims, the Jews, take your pick. The whole point is that it doesn't matter what you believe or don't believe, it's how you behave. People make a lot of noise with their mouths, but do they walk their talk? It's a bit boring, I suppose, but that old maxim of actions speaking louder than words comes to mind. Personally, my religion is the Golden Rule. I always try -- try, mind you -- to treat other people the same way I'd like to be treated if the situation were reversed. Makes for a simple life and it doesn't matter one bit whether I believe or don't believe, in anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I'm a non-believer without being an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said: Let's see, Catholic priests engage in wholesale pedophilia and the Church hides it, covers it up. That's one of the big religions and they'll tell you exactly how much they believe in the existence of God, capital G. Doesn't seem to stop them. Then you can break down the various Christian schisms and take a quick glance at the internecine killing that's been going on between them forever -- Ireland comes to mind -- they're believers. They say that they believe in God, capital G. Doesn't seem to make any difference there, either. I mean, we could continue ad nauseum about this with the Muslims, the Jews, take your pick. The whole point is that it doesn't matter what you believe or don't believe, it's how you behave. People make a lot of noise with their mouths, but do they walk their talk? It's a bit boring, I suppose, but that old maxim of actions speaking louder than words comes to mind. Personally, my religion is the Golden Rule. I always try -- try, mind you -- to treat other people the same way I'd like to be treated if the situation were reversed. Makes for a simple life and it doesn't matter one bit whether I believe or don't believe, in anything. Thanks for reiterating my point. Regardless of our own personal opinions, actions and deeds...walking the talk, "golden rule", etc...and the more education, reasonable, rational critical thinking prevail over dogma, BS woo and superstition...the better. We're on the same page, but many aren't. The more they are exposed, questioned, reasoned with, educated, called out and not just given the traditional special treatment and free pass, then change in "set ways" and thinking is possible. I get it...it doesn't matter and is not important to you, but it still matters...'cuz everyone else isn't you. Some need a little nudge or seed of doubt planted to get them actually thinking. I'm actually surprised at the poll results thus far. Thought non-belief would be pulling at least an 80 handle, but it's well below that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, manarak said: I'm a non-believer without being an atheist. Care to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocatsmac Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said: Satan is a god, so technically...even though Satan was not the creator...this poll/thread covers "The Devil" too! ???? Satan is a god? Where does old nick figure in the trilogy of the father, the son and the holy ghost? Youve mentioned planet earth in this thread, so do you also believe the earth is round? If yes then is that a faith in politicians or alchemy ? Just curious as to whether your faiths are selective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, twocatsmac said: Satan is a god? Where does old nick figure in the trilogy of the father, the son and the holy ghost? 2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT) 4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. Theistic Satanism or spiritual Satanism is an umbrella term for religious beliefs that consider Satan as an objectively existing supernatural being or force worthy of supplication, with whom individuals may contact, convene and even praise. god: a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocatsmac Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: 2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT) 4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. Theistic Satanism or spiritual Satanism is an umbrella term for religious beliefs that consider Satan as an objectively existing supernatural being or force worthy of supplication, with whom individuals may contact, convene and even praise. He was cast out for wanting to be god but you already know this. You acknowledge god the father by recognising lucifer. Up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenwind Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 “I don’t believe in Peter Pan, Frankenstein or Superman.” – St. Freddie Mercury Neither do I believe in those (wonderful) stories, along with the whole host of other beliefs that have been demanded that I believe on faith. Even after growing up in a family in Christian fundamentalist evangelical America, where the holy command that one totally believe on faith everything that one is taught as primary, I had serious doubts as a youngster. I actually did like Old Testament heroes like Gideon, who asked for unambiguous empirical proof of a divine command (a scientific experiment), as well as Elijah, who also “empirically demonstrated” a test of God on Mount Carmel. But when such reality-based empirical evidence proved to be lacking through the years here in the real world, my faith withered. The New Testament, with Jesus walking on water? Maybe in Canada in winter, but not even imaginable on the Lake of Galilee. I never bought into any of the miracles of that entire NT Jesus story, even as a child (although I liked a few of the parables that spoke to universal human ethics). And as far as “deism” or “intelligent design”, I have no concept of what you are talking about here – I never understood any of these – I simply had no belief in them. Atheism is primarily a Lack of Belief, i.e., a negative stance. One cannot logically “prove a negative”, e.g., prove that gods do NOT exist. One can only try to prove a positive. Thus the burden of proof of a belief in any kind of deity is firmly on the shoulders of anyone who claims a positive belief in the existence of said deity. Agnosticism is the lack of making up one’s mind about any disputed knowledge claim. For instance, I don’t have the background knowledge to make up my mind about many scientific controversies these days that are outside my studies, such as in cosmology, advanced physics, climate change, chemistry, mathematics, etc., so I am agnostic about many aspects of these theories. And many folks are also agnostic about deities, etc. But I am an atheist about deities, and not an agnostic on this subject, because I have studied comparative religions for over half a century and all the positive claims about the existence of deities that have been presented to me have failed to convince me. I am a secular Buddhist, meaning that I have (tried to have) been guided for over 50 years by ethical and psychotherapeutic advice from the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama – while rejecting any supernatural claims in his vast tradition. There is sound wisdom to be found in the Pali Canon if the mysticism is stripped away. Stephen Batchelor has pursued insights in this direction, ones that in my experience have “restoreth my soul.” But that is an entire other thread. The Golden Rule is nearly universal and articulated in almost all secular and religious ethical codes. That fact does not prove mystical claims, but it does point to historical human wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 All those millions of Egyptians believing in their gods for thousands of years that are no longer worshipped cant be wrong? oh wait... Guess Tutankhamun didnt need all those things he took with him unless he pops back for a "night at the museum" Facing facts, so many different gods makes it at best nonsense, all claim to be the only true god, alas not a speck of evidence has ever been presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, twocatsmac said: He was cast out for wanting to be god but you already know this. You acknowledge god the father by recognising lucifer. Up to you. Ridiculous ludicrous straw man cop out non-argument. I'm only quoting from your fictional "Holey" book to play your childish game. I'm NOT recognizing, nor acknowledging, your fictional characters as real any more than I could be accused of recognizing as real Gandolf, Bilbo, Obi-Wan Kenobi or Luke Skywalker as real if having a discussion about other fictional stories. Typical silly deflection when presented with facts. That quote comes from The Bible. Gives the exact reference point and furthermore...it was Paul who said it. Read and learn something. It's a damn shame when those who don't even buy into your stupid-stition, know infinitely more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocatsmac Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: Ridiculous ludicrous straw man cop out non-argument. I'm only quoting from your fictional "Holey" book to play your childish game. I'm NOT recognizing, nor acknowledging, your fictional characters as real any more than I could be accused of recognizing as real Gandolf, Bilbo, Obi-Wan Kenobi or Luke Skywalker as real if having a discussion about other fictional stories. Typical silly deflection when presented with facts. That quote comes from The Bible. Gives the exact reference point and furthermore...it was Paul who said it. Read and learn something. It's a damn shame when those who don't even buy into your stupid-stition, know infinitely more about it. Ohh, you’re an angry man. Read more bible and carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicowoodduck Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Good grief, God? Best fiction story going....???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said: Care to explain? certainly... the strict meaning of "atheist" is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. I simply don't believe - as in "very unlikely", but I can't say for sure that nowhere in the universe any entities exist that could be considered "gods". It's more of a non-issue for me than something I actively reject. I don't believe in pyrokinesis or telepathy either, but I wouldn't totally reject the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, manarak said: certainly... the strict meaning of "atheist" is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. I simply don't believe - as in "very unlikely", but I can't say for sure that nowhere in the universe any entities exist that could be considered "gods". It's more of a non-issue for me than something I actively reject. I don't believe in pyrokinesis or telepathy either, but I wouldn't totally reject the idea. You're free to label yourself anything you like, but if one doesn't believe in a god(s), then one is a non-believer, which you previously used to describe yourself. The word for that is atheist, by definition. Some people get technical and call themselves agnostic atheists, but they are still a non-believers = atheists. Without belief. Also, atheism, by definition, does not make the positive claim that there is no god(s). It simply means without belief in the theistic claim that there is...usually due to lack of any credible demonstration or evidence of said god claim(s). Same as you are not making a positive claim that telepathy or pyrokinisis don't exist...you still have no good reason to accept them, due to lack of evidence. And in turn, you say you don't believe in them. Same thing...only there is a word for that lack of a god belief and it is atheism. There are not words like "atelepathist" or "aleprechaunist" and so on, or that is what we'd be called. There is such a word when it come to theism. a·the·ist /ˈāTHēəst/ noun a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. synonyms: nonbeliever, nontheist, disbeliever, unbeliever a·the·ism /ˈāTHēˌizəm/ noun disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. synonyms: nonbelief, nontheism, disbelief, unbelief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said: Almost certain there is a "click" to see results without voting. Why "random" and not just cast an accurate vote? Lazy or have no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 hours ago, chicowoodduck said: Good grief, God? Best fiction story going....???? Greatest fiction story ever sold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quandow Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Didn't we just go through this exercise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5633572526 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Religion has caused more death pain and suffering of people through wars persecution and terrorism than it has ever saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Believe we will create life somewhere by time, and believe someone created life on earth. God? No, survivors from somewhere, maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgdanson Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 21 hours ago, milwaukeeboy said: Praise Jesus. And Mohammed, and Buddah, and Bob Marley etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, wgdanson said: And Mohammed, and Buddah, and Bob Marley etc etc. Hari hari Krishna! not forget snow white and the 7 dwarfs! 7 itself is very important and should be worshipped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyJ Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 4/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, ThreeEyedRaven said: Not pure rot in most cases. The principles of don't kill, steal, rape etc. are some positives, though I do agree, the "you must believe this" of all of them are unsubstantiated tripe. If one needs an omniscient punishing invisible God to keep from killing and raping, one has very serious problems. The earliest cultures worked this out for themselves. Our ancient ancestors would never have emerged from the trees and the caves if they spent their time killing each other rather than in a joint societal/tribal effort to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tagged said: Hari hari Krishna! not forget snow white and the 7 dwarfs! 7 itself is very important and should be worshipped! I met this lovely lady in Dagenham (UK). She was a Salvation Army activist. We became friends and eventually got together between the sheets. She was gradually converting me. After sex, she would read extracts of the bible to me. Sometimes I felt I was close to heaven! Then George Bush kept saying 'god bless America' after every speech, and I lost interest in her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tagged said: Hari hari Krishna! not forget snow white and the 7 dwarfs! 7 itself is very important and should be worshipped! Would that be Skeptic7?!? ???? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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