webfact Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Doctors urge ‘living will’ to ease pain in final stage of life By Pratch Rujivanarom The Nation EVERYBODY HAS the right to die a good death by choosing palliative care in their last years, but nobody can opt for euthanasia, medical experts said. The widely publicised story of a young Thai man, who was in the fourth stage of brain cancer and decided to end his agony with medically assisted suicide in Switzerland, has fuelled debate over whether Thailand is ready to legalise such action. Panellists at the National Health Commission Office’s seminar on people’s right to choose the way they want to die, said recently that everybody has the freedom to choose a good natural death according to law. However, they agreed that speeding up the end of life medically is a form of suicide. Dr Issarang Nuchprayoon, a medical lecturer at Chulalongkorn University, said most people view end-of-life medical care as both painful and expensive, with doctors focused only on keeping the patient alive as long as possible. This is not entirely true, Issarang said, pointing to the medical treatment offered by palliative care, in which the primary objective is to allow patients the highest quality end-of-life experience and let them die naturally and peacefully. “Palliative care does not focus on extending the patient’s life, but ensures that the terminal-stage patient is as comfortable as possible, maintains good mental health in the last days of their life, and has a good peaceful death at the end,” Issarang added. Living will can dictate palliative care Mercy killing is another story, he said, as it seeks to rush a person’s death by ending their life to avoid illness-related pain. This is not only illegal in most countries, he said, but can also be considered a serious breach of medical ethics. Sawaeng Boonchalermwipat, National Health Commission Board member, said mercy killing was not a legal option in the Kingdom. Yet, he noted, Article 43 of the National Health Act allows each person to choose how they want to be treated in the final period of their life and avoid painful medical treatment that might extend their life. They can instead write a “living will” and choose to get palliative care. “Despite the National Health Act having already been in use for 11 years, the majority of people still do not know that under this law they can choose what kind of medical care they prefer to receive at the end of their life. “Most people are afraid of the agony of modern medical techniques to keep their heart beating, so it is not beyond expectation that many people are supporting the legalisation of mercy killing,” Sawaeng said. “But these people can avoid a painful and expensive death by writing a living will, so others know how they should be treated when their final period of life has come.” He said a living will is easy to write, as it can be written in any form and only needs to include a date and the person’s signature. He suggested that everybody write a living will to prepare for their inevitable final period. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30368390 -- © Copyright The Nation 2019-04-26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Companies like those in Switzerland (Dignitas)should be able to provide their services in all countries of the world and keep religion out of it entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopy Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Here is a translation of the young Thai man's last post: I have been in switzerland for 10 days The sky is clear and the sun comes out everyday Today I am leaving the earth Just checked out of the hotel The sky is dark and the rain is out just in time (laughing) Today I will die in this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebell Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Thailand already has a form of dying a slow, painless death; it's called Getting a Retirement Visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 17 minutes ago, mikebell said: Thailand already has a form of dying a slow, painless death; it's called Getting a Retirement Visa. For you maybe. For many of us who have our act together, it is totally painless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin case Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 they don't even put down rabies dogs that maim children / adults for life ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOAX Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 hour ago, bkk6060 said: For you maybe. For many of us who have our act together, it is totally painless. The balcony-way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaltsc Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 "...nobody can opt for euthanasia..." Nothing says "totalitarian fascist" more than: "We own your body, and say what you can and cannot do with it." My body. My choices. Just as long as I don't physically harm anyone else in the process. If someone else's feelings are hurt by the actions I inflict upon myself. Not my problem. Get on with your own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickbat Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 hours ago, canopy said: Here is a translation of the young Thai man's last post: I have been in switzerland for 10 days The sky is clear and the sun comes out everyday Today I am leaving the earth Just checked out of the hotel The sky is dark and the rain is out just in time (laughing) Today I will die in this place. “Dust thou art and unto dust thou shall return.” Bible. He ain’t leaving anywhere. Death is just transient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meinphuket Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 The language used in the article is a little unclear. Would there be a suggested format/text to successfully making this palliative living will, and does it need to be in the Thai language ? Thanks to all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 49 minutes ago, jaltsc said: "...nobody can opt for euthanasia..." Nothing says "totalitarian fascist" more than: "We own your body, and say what you can and cannot do with it." My body. My choices. Just as long as I don't physically harm anyone else in the process. If someone else's feelings are hurt by the actions I inflict upon myself. Not my problem. Get on with your own life. I agree with you, 100% But only with the second part, the first part is, by your definition a statement that nearly all countries of the world are totalarian and fascist because of existing laws regarding assisted or even unassisted euthanasia. However, the issue is the "assisted" part of euthanasia which is frown upon. Understandably seen the doctor's oath and existing laws. And yes, even in certain countries where euthanasia is more or less accepted or tolerated, it is up to the "patient" to take the final step like opening the drip, drinking the solution, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton Rd Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Thai palliative care, paracetamol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said: Thai palliative care, paracetamol Not true, at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 A simple Transfer on Death system would be nice. Sign some documents so when you pop your clogs, Thai bank accounts and/or Thai investment portfolios transfer to designated survivor(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton Rd Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 The last place I would want to be receiving palliative care is here, from what I have seen they are years behind the west, still unwilling to give proper pain relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Orton Rd said: The last place I would want to be receiving palliative care is here, from what I have seen they are years behind the west, still unwilling to give proper pain relief. Have you discussed this with your long time Thai physician? Or are you relying on Thai Visa for your medical expertise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasane Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 4 hours ago, mikebell said: Thailand already has a form of dying a slow, painless death; it's called Getting a Retirement Visa. I hope it is not terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton Rd Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'd rely on what Sheryl has to say over a Thai Doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonseeker Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I will in the near future face the decision picking the right moment to fly to Europe to end my life, before suffering gets unbearable. 8 years of C fighting and i am tired. I can't get clear answers in top hospitals where i spent huge amounts of money, about end of life pain management. Some even warn me not to expect too much? I know what is coming and first time i am a little scared. Would prefer to end it all here. But not much of a jumper etc. and want to do it right and decent when the time has come. Many must be in similar situation. MS> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctkong Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, moonseeker said: I will in the near future face the decision picking the right moment to fly to Europe to end my life, before suffering gets unbearable. 8 years of C fighting and i am tired. I can't get clear answers in top hospitals where i spent huge amounts of money, about end of life pain management. Some even warn me not to expect too much? I know what is coming and first time i am a little scared. Would prefer to end it all here. But not much of a jumper etc. and want to do it right and decent when the time has come. Many must be in similar situation. MS> In Thailand, going the way of the charcoal burning is better than jumpers. Less of a mess and no victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 From what I can gather, palliative care for ordinary Thais routinely means a terminal cancer sufferer being sent home from hospital with a bottle of paracetamol. You sometimes wonder whether these academics ever leave their ivory towers long enough to discover how the rest of actually live - and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pond Life Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Good palliative care is available in Thailand. My friend recently died at McKean hospital Chiang Mai after receiving fantastic care at home & then at the hospital. They gave him very strong pain meds when it was required. They honoured his living will, they also said they could accept a living will verbally. I think if you contacted McKean hospital they could probably recommend other hospitals around Thailand that offer similar care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Orton Rd said: Thai palliative care, paracetamol There's some truth to that...even though people will think you're joking... There have been lots of reports here over the years of Thai hospitals and doctors being very resistant or flatly unwilling to provide enough and strong enough pain killing medicines to provide those with fatal illnesses some real form of pain relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Pond Life said: Good palliative care is available in Thailand. My friend recently died at McKean hospital Chiang Mai after receiving fantastic care at home & then at the hospital. They gave him very strong pain meds when it was required. They honoured his living will, they also said they could accept a living will verbally. I think if you contacted McKean hospital they could probably recommend other hospitals around Thailand that offer similar care. I contacted Bumrungrad Hospital in BKK some years ago after Thailand updated its law on living wills, and had an extended discussion there with a pertinent group of their staff on living wills... At least at that time -- I can't say whether or not it's changed since then -- they'd only accept a living will AFTER you'd made an appointment with and been seen by one of their doctors, and then the living will had to be on a Bumrungrad specific version that the hospital itself created. Their whole focus on living wills seemed to be on people who were already inpatients in the hospital with serious/fatal conditions, and not at all conducive to healthy people wanting to do advance planning just in case they ever ended up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Orton Rd said: I'd rely on what Sheryl has to say over a Thai Doctor Sheryl has mentioned a number of pain clinics in Thailand as I remember it and ways to get proper pain medication in Thailand. Although I think Sheryl would be the first one to tell you to see a doctor, yes, even in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpudlian Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 A member of this board an ozzy mate of mine was given opium here Surin hospital to ease his bone cancer pain, he passed a short time later back in oz . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Wife and I have our living wills lodged with a local hospital signed off by the CMO,copies with a friend and copies with our important documents and references in wallets/purses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Brickbat said: “Dust thou art and unto dust thou shall return.” Bible. He ain’t leaving anywhere. Death is just transient. I did say leave religion out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 3 hours ago, moonseeker said: I will in the near future face the decision picking the right moment to fly to Europe to end my life, before suffering gets unbearable. 8 years of C fighting and i am tired. I can't get clear answers in top hospitals where i spent huge amounts of money, about end of life pain management. Some even warn me not to expect too much? I know what is coming and first time i am a little scared. Would prefer to end it all here. But not much of a jumper etc. and want to do it right and decent when the time has come. Many must be in similar situation. MS> I think its disgusting that you are not allowed to choose your time and way of death, I too will plan in advance a Dignitas trip this is the most humane way to go and although healthy and still fairly young after seeing my Fathers agonising death I do not wish that on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickbat Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Doctors routinely end lives by overdosing patients on opiates IF a Health Directive states " under no circumstances am I to be in pain" A few Endone tablets can also allow one to end his or her life. Pain free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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