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Phuket - Change from Retirement to Marriage Extension


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1 minute ago, gamini said:

What is marriage certificate. koror2 and koror3?  Why are they needed for a marriage extension?

I have the normal Thai Marriage certificate

Kor Ror 2 is a document from the Amphoe stating you are (still) married. 

Kor Ror 3 is the original (flowery) marriage-certificate.

 

Some will also demand you fish-out your old "affirmation for freedom to marry" document, used to allow you to get married at the amphoe.

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4 minutes ago, gamini said:

What is marriage certificate. koror2 and koror3?  Why are they needed for a marriage extension?

I have the normal Thai Marriage certificate

As JT said, K3 is the original Marriage certificate, K2 (which should be no more than 6 months old) you can get from your Amphur (only costs a few baht) which confirms that you're still married.

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20 minutes ago, pagallim said:

As JT said, K3 is the original Marriage certificate, K2 (which should be no more than 6 months old) you can get from your Amphur (only costs a few baht) which confirms that you're still married.

Some offices, Udon is one, require that the Kor Ror 2 is less than one month old. It is easy and cheap enough to get the 2 that are needed as it only cost us ฿20 for both.

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1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Not only does this vary from one office to another, but it also varies by other criteria of the applicant.  At some offices, they only target a subset of applicants for agent-extortion - the rest will report, "no problems."  For example, in Jomtien, it's much easier to get a marriage-based extension, if you own your own condo - might only have to make 2 trips (they change the picture requirements every year). 

 

One's treatment may also have to do with how many stacks passports were recently received in the back-office, accompanied by agent-loot.  They will be more relaxed when they have already made enough "extra" to cover their house/car payments.

Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time ,

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3 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time ,

Crikey! It was only my second trip in 1983 before i got asked for a payment from a cop for doing nothing wrong! These days I find not breaking the rules and having a Thai licence means no issues.

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13 hours ago, pagallim said:

Unusual for this particular forum, no comments. 

It was a really long post.  It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method.

 

It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions.

 

Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum for marriage extensions remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months.  The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months.

 

 

Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket.  However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. 

 

Edited by SEtonal
added "for marriage extensions"
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10 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

It was a really long post.  It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method.

 

It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions.

 

Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months.  The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months.

 

 

Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket.  However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. 

 

Can't really comment on the Udon Thani situation, though the reply UJ posted below the one you've linked is my understanding also, i.e. no current changes to the Marriage or Family extension, so at face value is another example of 'local rule' application prevalent at some offices.    The regime at Phuket seems completely unambiguous and in accordance with published rules.   

 

I seem to recall that there were rumours (during the latter days of BJ's regime) that there was going to be a new Police Order issued circa 22nd April, which has obviously come and gone with no proclamation.   

Edited by pagallim
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3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Not only does this vary from one office to another, but it also varies by other criteria of the applicant.  At some offices, they only target a subset of applicants for agent-extortion - the rest will report, "no problems."  For example, in Jomtien, it's much easier to get a marriage-based extension, if you own your own condo - might only have to make 2 trips (they change the picture requirements every year). 

 

One's treatment may also have to do with how many stacks passports were recently received in the back-office, accompanied by agent-loot.  They will be more relaxed when they have already made enough "extra" to cover their house/car payments.

Even in a thread like this you mention to get your agent extortion nonsense in.

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40 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

It was a really long post.  It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method.

 

It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions.

 

Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum for marriage extensions remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months.  The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months.

 

 

Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket.  However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. 

 

"It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions."

Can you provide a link to that announcement please.

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53 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

No other country in the world has an immigration with such nonsensical rules and regulations for a retirement visa.  To top that off, this procedure needs to be repeated year after year for one year visa extensions.  You just can't make stuff like this up.  Thanks for sharing your immigration experience. ????

The Malaysia My 2nd Home (MM2H) program is even more onerous than the Thai program and the Malaysian program is what Thailand is working to imitate.  http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/list-of-announcements

 

I haven't looked at the new requirements issued by Malaysia on April 1, 2019, but up until recently an MM2H applicant over 50 had to show RM350,000 ($85,000usd) in liquid assets in their home country.  Once approved they had to place RM150,000 ($36,000usd) in a fixed deposit bank account in Malaysia and never go below RM100,000 ($24,000usd), plus show a monthly income of RM10,000 ($2,400usd) and purchase health insurance.  On top of that applicants need a sponsor and the sponsor, not the applicant, has to pay personal bond of RM2000 ($500).  https://www.mm2h.com/mm2h-requirements-terms-and-conditions/

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3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions."

Can you provide a link to that announcement please.

Is this the May announcement that will also change 90 day reporting?

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Just now, CMNightRider said:

Are they planning on changing the 90 day to 30 day reporting? ????

Heaven knows. I heard something about 90 day reports were going to be cancelled and also some changes being announced in May and I tied them together. Now we don't need you stirring the pot more....????

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40 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Is this the May announcement that will also change 90 day reporting?

None of it was an announcement.  It was an interview and a news conference.

The 90 day reporting part was that were going to have the immigration act amended. That has to be approved by parliament so it will take a long time to do.

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1 hour ago, pagallim said:

The regime at Phuket seems completely unambiguous and in accordance with published rules.   

I don't have a thorough familiarity with the published rules, so I don't know if the following occurrences in Phuket are in accordance to the rules. 

 

Phuket Immigration refused to do a retirement extension using the combination method because the British applicant did not have an Embassy letter.  He went to Savannakhet and received a 1 year Non-Imm O ME visa.  He showed proof of UK State pension and the proper funds.  

 

Phuket Immigration requires those with Embassy Letters bring at least 65k into Thailand each month in order to receive an extension based on retirement.  This policy has caused so many Norwegians to leave that the Norwegian Counsulate in Phuket is closing.

 

The Phuket Immigration Volunteer website says, "in a random selection process it is possible that applicants will receive a 90 days under consideration stamp and have to return to the immigration department after 90 days with new bank statements to proof that the 800.000 Baht is still in your account after which the remaining months will be granted." http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

 

 

1 hour ago, pagallim said:

I seem to recall that there were rumours (during the latter days of BJ's regime) that there was going to be a new Police Order issued circa 22nd April, which has obviously come and gone with no proclamation. 

 

Yes, with the change in leadership a new policy change won't take place for months.  Last year, the affected Embassies decided to stop issuing Income Verification Letters in May, but no announcement was made until October, about the time Big Joke became leader and it was another couple of months before an amended Police Order was released. 

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1 hour ago, stevenl said:

"It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions."

Can you provide a link to that announcement please.

 

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3 hours ago, SEtonal said:

I don't have a thorough familiarity with the published rules, so I don't know if the following occurrences in Phuket are in accordance to the rules. 

 

Phuket Immigration refused to do a retirement extension using the combination method because the British applicant did not have an Embassy letter.  He went to Savannakhet and received a 1 year Non-Imm O ME visa.  He showed proof of UK State pension and the proper funds.  

 

Phuket Immigration requires those with Embassy Letters bring at least 65k into Thailand each month in order to receive an extension based on retirement.  This policy has caused so many Norwegians to leave that the Norwegian Counsulate in Phuket is closing.

 

The Phuket Immigration Volunteer website says, "in a random selection process it is possible that applicants will receive a 90 days under consideration stamp and have to return to the immigration department after 90 days with new bank statements to proof that the 800.000 Baht is still in your account after which the remaining months will be granted." http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

 

 

 

Yes, with the change in leadership a new policy change won't take place for months.  Last year, the affected Embassies decided to stop issuing Income Verification Letters in May, but no announcement was made until October, about the time Big Joke became leader and it was another couple of months before an amended Police Order was released. 

OK, possibly what I should have said is that Phuket Immigration implement the practices as outlined in the Phuket Immigration Volunteers website, for all of its activities.

 

Re the individual who was refused a combination retirement method extension through not having an Embassy letter, the post you used doesn't say what he actually submitted to Phuket Immigration.    I do know that Phuket Immigration are accepting Embassy letters from the 4 countries who no longer issue them as long as they were issued prior to 1st January 2019 they are valid for 6 months.    They wouldn't have accepted a letter from a pension provider.

 

The Scandinavian thread you refer to is in fact regarding Danish nationals, who of course are one of the four nations no longer issuing income letters, and hence those nationals need to produce bank letters/statements showing the minimum of 65K/month (or indeed 40K/month if using the Marriage route).   To be honest, in the 12 years that I've lived in Phuket, I don't actually remember meeting any Norwegians at all.   Plenty of Danes, Swedes, Finns etc, but surprisingly few Norwegians which tells me that if any are leaving, they must be doing so in very, very small numbers.  In fact, the Norwegian Consul in Phuket is an Honorary Consul and is actually a Thai lady (Mrs. Pornphan (Tantipiriyakij) Sittichaivijit.

 

Lastly, the PIV website states the Phuket office current policy of selecting individual Retirement extension applicants at random and using a 'Under Consideration' 3 month stamp to check adherence to maintaining 800K in an account post application.   At least they're telling people using that method what the criteria is.

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19 hours ago, pagallim said:

 

 

Part of my decision to change was in the financial aspects of renewing a Retirement extension.   I could support the monies in the bank method (not prepared to make monthly transfers at an ever fluctuating exchange rate), but then the 'what if's' come into play.    Maybe six months down the road with my minimum of 400,000 baht in the bank, and I'm out cycling and have an accident.    There's the possibility that I will have to use that reserve for medical expenses and hence drop below the required minimum.    Does that mean that my next extension will be refused?

 

For me, it's not about the amount of money, it's about how we manage our resources whilst fulfilling the criteria of the Immigration offices.   In the current climate, for those who can satisfy the Marriage extension criteria, the Retirement option doesn't have any tangible benefits at all.

Couldn't agree more. 

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On 4/27/2019 at 10:23 AM, bert bloggs said:

Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time ,

I never had a problem with the regular police, either. 

 

With immigration, dressing nice, being polite, no tattoos (wife or I), etc made no difference.  Even after they made it clear they were not going to give us an extension (w/o an agent's help), we just left - no pointless freaking-out that would accomplish nothing, and possibly give them some sick satisfaction.

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The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink!

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9 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink!

Yes, monthly international transfer of a minimum 40K baht into your Thai bank a/c are accepted in lieu of an Embassy letter.   Because of variances between Immigration offices, I strongly recommend if possible, visiting the office you intend to use before making your application, and confirming their exact requirements.

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12 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink!

Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules.  Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter.   

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22 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules.  Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter.   

Phuket does not have to accept the 40K method without an embassy letter but will it accept it?

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24 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules.  Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter.   

Actually that have to go by what is stated in a police order.

The only thing they can vary is the required documents to meet one of the requirement shown in the police order.

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