Popular Post pagallim Posted April 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 26, 2019 Having commented on some of the different threads on changing from a Retirement to a Marriage extension, I thought I'd share my actual experience today. Important though to appreciate that this was at Phuket Immigration, and as we all know, different locations have different requirements/local rules so important to check with the office which you are intending to use (albeit, as also have been documented, there can be variances between individual IO's in the same office). Firstly, the list of required documentation listed by the Phuket Immigration Volunteers in their website (http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/marriage-m/) was spot on. Regarding photos, one exterior photo with you both in and showing the house number, and one house internal photo (we were sat at our dining table, none of this sat on bed embracing each other crap that I've read about). The only extra documentation was a form I had to sign which detailed the conditions under which the extension would be cancelled due to change of circumstances. It was explicit that the death of a family member through which the extension was granted (i.e. wife) would not then cancel the extension. One requirement that wasn't listed is that a witness has to be in attendance for the application (this only applies when changing from a Retirement to Marriage extension, and only for the first year). A quick phone call from my wife to one of her former staff working not far from the Immigration Office solved that problem, with the lady there in 5 minutes. We were told that one witness should be at the house when they confirm day/time for visit. Another slight deviation. My current Retirement extension expires on the 25th May. My new Marriage extension commences today 26th April, with a 'Under Consideration' stamp in my passport, with a requirement to visit the office/get new extension stamped in passport etc on 24th May. To reiterate, the new extension will be valid for 12 months from 26th April. IO confirmed ability to use any and all bank funds effectively immediately, and no requirement for further proof/seasoning when returning on the 24th May. 90 day report slip also updated, next one on 24th July. 1900 baht fee, no request for 'extras' in any shape or form. The whole exercise took about an hour as we were seen almost immediately when we arrived, around 0930 this morning, having been to the bank for the letter, 3 month statement, and copies of my bank book pages (the bank provided 2 copies of everything at no cost other than the 200 baht for the bank letter). Finished off the morning with a very good lunch. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pagallim Posted April 26, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 26, 2019 Unusual for this particular forum, no comments. Just to reiterate, the whole process for Marriage extension was super easy (if you follow the documentation requirements). Part of my decision to change was in the financial aspects of renewing a Retirement extension. I could support the monies in the bank method (not prepared to make monthly transfers at an ever fluctuating exchange rate), but then the 'what if's' come into play. Maybe six months down the road with my minimum of 400,000 baht in the bank, and I'm out cycling and have an accident. There's the possibility that I will have to use that reserve for medical expenses and hence drop below the required minimum. Does that mean that my next extension will be refused? For me, it's not about the amount of money, it's about how we manage our resources whilst fulfilling the criteria of the Immigration offices. In the current climate, for those who can satisfy the Marriage extension criteria, the Retirement option doesn't have any tangible benefits at all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gashead Posted April 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 27, 2019 I also recently changed from a retirement to marriage extension at Korat Immigration. Pretty much the same experience as you. Only differences were that I required 2 witnesses to be in attendance (first year only) and was told that I should not let my balance drop below 400K during the under consideration period, although they required no proof of this when I went back to get the final stamp. All in all a very straightforward process and nowhere near as onerous as some posters would make us believe. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted April 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gashead said: All in all a very straightforward process and nowhere near as onerous as some posters would make us believe. Not only does this vary from one office to another, but it also varies by other criteria of the applicant. At some offices, they only target a subset of applicants for agent-extortion - the rest will report, "no problems." For example, in Jomtien, it's much easier to get a marriage-based extension, if you own your own condo - might only have to make 2 trips (they change the picture requirements every year). One's treatment may also have to do with how many stacks passports were recently received in the back-office, accompanied by agent-loot. They will be more relaxed when they have already made enough "extra" to cover their house/car payments. Edited April 27, 2019 by JackThompson 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamini Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 What is marriage certificate. koror2 and koror3? Why are they needed for a marriage extension? I have the normal Thai Marriage certificate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 minute ago, gamini said: What is marriage certificate. koror2 and koror3? Why are they needed for a marriage extension? I have the normal Thai Marriage certificate Kor Ror 2 is a document from the Amphoe stating you are (still) married. Kor Ror 3 is the original (flowery) marriage-certificate. Some will also demand you fish-out your old "affirmation for freedom to marry" document, used to allow you to get married at the amphoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share Posted April 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, gamini said: What is marriage certificate. koror2 and koror3? Why are they needed for a marriage extension? I have the normal Thai Marriage certificate As JT said, K3 is the original Marriage certificate, K2 (which should be no more than 6 months old) you can get from your Amphur (only costs a few baht) which confirms that you're still married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, pagallim said: As JT said, K3 is the original Marriage certificate, K2 (which should be no more than 6 months old) you can get from your Amphur (only costs a few baht) which confirms that you're still married. Some offices, Udon is one, require that the Kor Ror 2 is less than one month old. It is easy and cheap enough to get the 2 that are needed as it only cost us ฿20 for both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, JackThompson said: Not only does this vary from one office to another, but it also varies by other criteria of the applicant. At some offices, they only target a subset of applicants for agent-extortion - the rest will report, "no problems." For example, in Jomtien, it's much easier to get a marriage-based extension, if you own your own condo - might only have to make 2 trips (they change the picture requirements every year). One's treatment may also have to do with how many stacks passports were recently received in the back-office, accompanied by agent-loot. They will be more relaxed when they have already made enough "extra" to cover their house/car payments. Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time , 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time , Crikey! It was only my second trip in 1983 before i got asked for a payment from a cop for doing nothing wrong! These days I find not breaking the rules and having a Thai licence means no issues. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CMNightRider Posted April 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 27, 2019 No other country in the world has an immigration with such nonsensical rules and regulations for a retirement visa. To top that off, this procedure needs to be repeated year after year for one year visa extensions. You just can't make stuff like this up. Thanks for sharing your immigration experience. ???? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEtonal Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, pagallim said: Unusual for this particular forum, no comments. It was a really long post. It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method. It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions. Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum for marriage extensions remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months. The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months. Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket. However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. Edited April 27, 2019 by SEtonal added "for marriage extensions" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SEtonal said: It was a really long post. It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method. It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions. Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months. The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months. Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket. However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. Can't really comment on the Udon Thani situation, though the reply UJ posted below the one you've linked is my understanding also, i.e. no current changes to the Marriage or Family extension, so at face value is another example of 'local rule' application prevalent at some offices. The regime at Phuket seems completely unambiguous and in accordance with published rules. I seem to recall that there were rumours (during the latter days of BJ's regime) that there was going to be a new Police Order issued circa 22nd April, which has obviously come and gone with no proclamation. Edited April 27, 2019 by pagallim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 3 hours ago, JackThompson said: Not only does this vary from one office to another, but it also varies by other criteria of the applicant. At some offices, they only target a subset of applicants for agent-extortion - the rest will report, "no problems." For example, in Jomtien, it's much easier to get a marriage-based extension, if you own your own condo - might only have to make 2 trips (they change the picture requirements every year). One's treatment may also have to do with how many stacks passports were recently received in the back-office, accompanied by agent-loot. They will be more relaxed when they have already made enough "extra" to cover their house/car payments. Even in a thread like this you mention to get your agent extortion nonsense in. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, SEtonal said: It was a really long post. It wasn't until the last paragraph when you said "seasoning" that I was able to determine that you were using the 400k method. It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions. Udon Thani Immigration Office is now requiring that the 400k baht lump sum for marriage extensions remain untouched in the bank for 6 to 7 months. The math: 2 months seasoning prior to application, 1 to 2 months during the "under consideration" period, plus three months after receiving the extension equal 6 to 7 months. Yes, if you go below the required minimum, your next extension will be refused in Phuket. However, in Phuket if that happens simply top the account back up and submit your renewal via an agent and Immigration will overlook the discretion and renew your extension. "It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions." Can you provide a link to that announcement please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEtonal Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 53 minutes ago, CMNightRider said: No other country in the world has an immigration with such nonsensical rules and regulations for a retirement visa. To top that off, this procedure needs to be repeated year after year for one year visa extensions. You just can't make stuff like this up. Thanks for sharing your immigration experience. ???? The Malaysia My 2nd Home (MM2H) program is even more onerous than the Thai program and the Malaysian program is what Thailand is working to imitate. http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/list-of-announcements I haven't looked at the new requirements issued by Malaysia on April 1, 2019, but up until recently an MM2H applicant over 50 had to show RM350,000 ($85,000usd) in liquid assets in their home country. Once approved they had to place RM150,000 ($36,000usd) in a fixed deposit bank account in Malaysia and never go below RM100,000 ($24,000usd), plus show a monthly income of RM10,000 ($2,400usd) and purchase health insurance. On top of that applicants need a sponsor and the sponsor, not the applicant, has to pay personal bond of RM2000 ($500). https://www.mm2h.com/mm2h-requirements-terms-and-conditions/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevenl said: "It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions." Can you provide a link to that announcement please. Is this the May announcement that will also change 90 day reporting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CMNightRider Posted April 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Is this the May announcement that will also change 90 day reporting? Are they planning on changing the 90 day to 30 day reporting? ???? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Just now, CMNightRider said: Are they planning on changing the 90 day to 30 day reporting? ???? Heaven knows. I heard something about 90 day reports were going to be cancelled and also some changes being announced in May and I tied them together. Now we don't need you stirring the pot more....???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Is this the May announcement that will also change 90 day reporting? None of it was an announcement. It was an interview and a news conference. The 90 day reporting part was that were going to have the immigration act amended. That has to be approved by parliament so it will take a long time to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEtonal Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, pagallim said: The regime at Phuket seems completely unambiguous and in accordance with published rules. I don't have a thorough familiarity with the published rules, so I don't know if the following occurrences in Phuket are in accordance to the rules. Phuket Immigration refused to do a retirement extension using the combination method because the British applicant did not have an Embassy letter. He went to Savannakhet and received a 1 year Non-Imm O ME visa. He showed proof of UK State pension and the proper funds. Phuket Immigration requires those with Embassy Letters bring at least 65k into Thailand each month in order to receive an extension based on retirement. This policy has caused so many Norwegians to leave that the Norwegian Counsulate in Phuket is closing. The Phuket Immigration Volunteer website says, "in a random selection process it is possible that applicants will receive a 90 days under consideration stamp and have to return to the immigration department after 90 days with new bank statements to proof that the 800.000 Baht is still in your account after which the remaining months will be granted." http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/ 1 hour ago, pagallim said: I seem to recall that there were rumours (during the latter days of BJ's regime) that there was going to be a new Police Order issued circa 22nd April, which has obviously come and gone with no proclamation. Yes, with the change in leadership a new policy change won't take place for months. Last year, the affected Embassies decided to stop issuing Income Verification Letters in May, but no announcement was made until October, about the time Big Joke became leader and it was another couple of months before an amended Police Order was released. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEtonal Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, stevenl said: "It was announced last month that Thai Immigration will be making changes to business visas, marriage extensions, and parent of a Thai child extensions." Can you provide a link to that announcement please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 27, 2019 Author Share Posted April 27, 2019 3 hours ago, SEtonal said: I don't have a thorough familiarity with the published rules, so I don't know if the following occurrences in Phuket are in accordance to the rules. Phuket Immigration refused to do a retirement extension using the combination method because the British applicant did not have an Embassy letter. He went to Savannakhet and received a 1 year Non-Imm O ME visa. He showed proof of UK State pension and the proper funds. Phuket Immigration requires those with Embassy Letters bring at least 65k into Thailand each month in order to receive an extension based on retirement. This policy has caused so many Norwegians to leave that the Norwegian Counsulate in Phuket is closing. The Phuket Immigration Volunteer website says, "in a random selection process it is possible that applicants will receive a 90 days under consideration stamp and have to return to the immigration department after 90 days with new bank statements to proof that the 800.000 Baht is still in your account after which the remaining months will be granted." http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/ Yes, with the change in leadership a new policy change won't take place for months. Last year, the affected Embassies decided to stop issuing Income Verification Letters in May, but no announcement was made until October, about the time Big Joke became leader and it was another couple of months before an amended Police Order was released. OK, possibly what I should have said is that Phuket Immigration implement the practices as outlined in the Phuket Immigration Volunteers website, for all of its activities. Re the individual who was refused a combination retirement method extension through not having an Embassy letter, the post you used doesn't say what he actually submitted to Phuket Immigration. I do know that Phuket Immigration are accepting Embassy letters from the 4 countries who no longer issue them as long as they were issued prior to 1st January 2019 they are valid for 6 months. They wouldn't have accepted a letter from a pension provider. The Scandinavian thread you refer to is in fact regarding Danish nationals, who of course are one of the four nations no longer issuing income letters, and hence those nationals need to produce bank letters/statements showing the minimum of 65K/month (or indeed 40K/month if using the Marriage route). To be honest, in the 12 years that I've lived in Phuket, I don't actually remember meeting any Norwegians at all. Plenty of Danes, Swedes, Finns etc, but surprisingly few Norwegians which tells me that if any are leaving, they must be doing so in very, very small numbers. In fact, the Norwegian Consul in Phuket is an Honorary Consul and is actually a Thai lady (Mrs. Pornphan (Tantipiriyakij) Sittichaivijit. Lastly, the PIV website states the Phuket office current policy of selecting individual Retirement extension applicants at random and using a 'Under Consideration' 3 month stamp to check adherence to maintaining 800K in an account post application. At least they're telling people using that method what the criteria is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterhua Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 19 hours ago, pagallim said: Part of my decision to change was in the financial aspects of renewing a Retirement extension. I could support the monies in the bank method (not prepared to make monthly transfers at an ever fluctuating exchange rate), but then the 'what if's' come into play. Maybe six months down the road with my minimum of 400,000 baht in the bank, and I'm out cycling and have an accident. There's the possibility that I will have to use that reserve for medical expenses and hence drop below the required minimum. Does that mean that my next extension will be refused? For me, it's not about the amount of money, it's about how we manage our resources whilst fulfilling the criteria of the Immigration offices. In the current climate, for those who can satisfy the Marriage extension criteria, the Retirement option doesn't have any tangible benefits at all. Couldn't agree more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 On 4/27/2019 at 10:23 AM, bert bloggs said: Its funny but in 23 years i have only ever once been asked for a bribe and that was about 10 yrs ago by a traffic cop in BKK ,i and my wife are usually treated respectfuly , could it be that we dress nicely,great people with a smile and dont "demand" anything ,who knows ,hope its like that when i change from retirement to marriage in 6 months time , I never had a problem with the regular police, either. With immigration, dressing nice, being polite, no tattoos (wife or I), etc made no difference. Even after they made it clear they were not going to give us an extension (w/o an agent's help), we just left - no pointless freaking-out that would accomplish nothing, and possibly give them some sick satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farang99 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagallim Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Farang99 said: The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink! Yes, monthly international transfer of a minimum 40K baht into your Thai bank a/c are accepted in lieu of an Embassy letter. Because of variances between Immigration offices, I strongly recommend if possible, visiting the office you intend to use before making your application, and confirming their exact requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEtonal Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Farang99 said: The very valuable document you posted is not entirely clear about the financial arrangements. It suggests that EITHER you have an embassy letter certifying more than 40,000/month (the UK and several other embassies no longer supply such a letter) OR 400,000 on deposit. I thought banks now supplied a balance sheet showing international deposits of 40K+ which was also acceptable. Is this not correct? If it isn't I shall have to rethink! Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules. Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farang99 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, SEtonal said: Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules. Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter. Phuket does not have to accept the 40K method without an embassy letter but will it accept it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, SEtonal said: Individual Immigration Offices can make up their own rules. Phuket does not have to accept the 40k method from applicants without an Embassy Letter. Actually that have to go by what is stated in a police order. The only thing they can vary is the required documents to meet one of the requirement shown in the police order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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