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Facts and questions about TM30 and TM28


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I do read and follow topics about the TM30 and TM28 issue's and find it amazing / disturbing / cumbersome that the facts and opinions in this matter are both unclear as total mixed up / unknown for Joe average ... and more bothersome, the average Thai person...

As i do "wander around" frequently in Thailand, between different provinces and different places to stay/work/visit, imagine the routine and loss off time for all involved, if the current rules are unclear or somewhat mis interpret...

 

In my case it might be nearly impossible to fully comply and following the "enforced rules, by media" makes me prone to be arrested/deported/convicted, depending the news outlets ...

 

So, the big question: What are the factual rules ?

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After reading many threads on this website all I can say is that some westerners dont abide by the rules on this matter and some do. 

 

I did the TM28 and landlord the TM30 when we signed a 10 yr lease last yr. My only question to someone is this..... I have a yellow book. If I go abroad do I have to re-do either of the forms? From memory I think I asked last yr when doing 90 day reporting and they said no. But I would like to hear someones opinion on this

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9 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

From memory I think I asked last yr when doing 90 day reporting and they said no. But I would like to hear someones opinion on this

Doubt a new TM 28 would be required as you have not changed address. Whether a TM30 is needed seems to be office dependent. Jomtiem, for example, I would say no. Others are requiring you to submit a TM30 within 24 hours of arriving home. 

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4 hours ago, davidst01 said:

I have a yellow book. If I go abroad do I have to re-do either of the forms?

I have do to it, if I go abroad. In some provinces (like mine) you, or the "house master" (often the Blue House Book owner), can do a TM30 address registration online.

 

When you go abroad your arrival card number, and your entry date, change, both are part of the TM30 registration. Also your entry point might not be the same as before.

 

When I'm applying for extension of stay, I'm need to show proof of my latest address registration; however that rule might not apply to all immigration offices.

 

On 4/30/2019 at 5:42 AM, Ratt Thai said:

So, the big question: What are the factual rules ?

There were recently a thread – might have been in the news section – where a big Immigration officer stated that if you are registered at a fixed address in Thailand, and temporary visit another place, or province, or in laws up in Nakhon Nowhere, you should not fill in a TM30.

 

I presume, if you don't have a permanent Thai address, but move around, you should register your address every time you move to a new place, or have your address registered by the landlord/hotel reception.

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2 hours ago, khunPer said:

There were recently a thread – might have been in the news section – where a big Immigration officer stated that if you are registered at a fixed address in Thailand, and temporary visit another place, or province, or in laws up in Nakhon Nowhere, you should not fill in a TM30.

I also remember seeing that thread and thinking, that information must be incorrect - here's why:

 

Let's say you've registered that you are resident in a house that you are renting. You then go away for a weekend and stay at a hotel. If the system works as I'm guessing it is designed and the hotel abides by the rules and registers you there, you must be 'de-registered' from your home address. Therefore, surely you would have to register again when you get home?

 

That's my take on it and to (hopefully) avoid this happening once registered at home, if I then go away and stay at a hotel, I use my Thai driving licence to check in to the hotel rather than my passport.  So far no hotel has demanded my passport, a couple have asked but when I told them I'd left it at home, they accepted my licence. My only concern is that my passport number is used as my ID number on my driving licence and could possibly link me. However, when I register at my home address online, I have to fill in my passport number AND my arrival card number so I'm hoping that's the difference  - the hotel don't have the arrival card number so staying there doesn't de-register me.

 

I think the reality is that the hotels I've used so far are not actually complying with the law and are not registering guests - I doubt many do but that may change.  When I register online I have to type in my arrival card number to complete the registration so how the hotel does it without that, I know not.

Edited by KhaoYai
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I've just had a few days in Bangkok. Returned to Ubon Ratchathani and went with wife to do a TM30 report. Immigration officer told wife not necessary, only when returning from outside country.

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FYI: Upon returning to Thailand, I went (same day) to Jomtien office to register, but missed one piece of paper and would need to go back. I said to the officer that it would be difficult for me to return within the stipulated 24 hours period. She replied that it was no problem as I had 3 days to do it. Hmmm.

 

(My House is in my daughter's name.)

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The TM 30 rules are clear and simple. You must report your place of residence must within 24 hours of arrival at that address. Whether it be a condo, house or hotel.

Fact 1/ The TM30 reporting rules are interpreted differently from immigration office to immigration office. Fact 2/ The TM3o rules are enforced differently from immigration office to immigration office. Fact 3/ If you never have to have any interaction with an immigration ie. No extensions of stay, no residence certificate, etc... the TM 30 is like speeding. No issues as long as you are not caught. In short, if you will have an interaction with your local immigration office, report within 24 hours and get clear instructions from them on how they interpret and enforce the requirements. But understand, these may change without notice at any time.

Edited by Ulic
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29 minutes ago, Ulic said:

The TM 30 rules are clear and simple. You must report your place of residence must within 24 hours of arrival at that address. Whether it be a condo, house or hotel.

If they are so clear and simple i wonder why you don't understand them.

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4 hours ago, mobako said:

I need to go to Chaeng Wattana to do the 30 days extension,reading all those tm30 topics i still dont get it if i need to do anything or they just randomly checking for it?

The current situation being what it is, you will not know for sure until you present your application at the immigration office.

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the law: any alien must report in person to file a TM28 within 24hrs of arrival at his place of stay
Any house lord, must report / file a TM30 within arrival of said alien

 

So, if done properly by law, they could track your whereabouts in full... and you have to stay in said location as what they have in their computer system or else...

 

Imagine all the tourists that have to attend the imigration office the day after they arrived in their hotel...

 

Imagine all the requested paperwork and witnesses to travel along... 

 

What paperwork is required to file a TM28 ... ? TM30... ? What is the procedure to file for a TM28 ? 

 

The computer does register based on the TM6 form number... change that number and you have to redo all again...

 

Lets assume you stay at an hotel and you'r dully registered TM30 wise, then next morning you'r trying to file a TM28 and the officer asks the landlord to be present and witnesses...

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Immigration is starting to wear me down. Sometimes I think the 50 year old thing is so they can start wearing you down at an old age, 25 or 30 year olds  could deal with this crap.

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8 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

the law: any alien must report in person to file a TM28 within 24hrs of arrival at his place of stay

This is not correct. The law says a foreigner has to notify the competent official within 24 hours if he can not stay at the place as indicated to the competent official.

It explicitly says "can not stay at the place as indicated", and not "doesn't stay at the place as indicated", so you only have to do it if you can not stay at the place which you put at your arrival card (hotel fully booked? house burned down?). If you decide you just don't want to stay there you don't have to report, according to the law.

 

8 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

Imagine all the tourists that have to attend the imigration office the day after they arrived in their hotel...

According to the TM28 form itself the report is to be done at a police station, so this can be any police station of your choice, doesn't have to be a immigration police station.

But i think the number of people who write a place on their arrival card, then arrive there and see that they can't stay there is a quite small number of people.

 

I do actually think when they made the law they made a mistake: http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

The TM28 is used to comply with section 37. In Section 37 they write "The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General."

This was most likely supposed to be "(2), (3) and (4)", but they just oversaw it when they make the law and never corrected it.

 

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15 hours ago, BlueScouse said:

I've just had a few days in Bangkok. Returned to Ubon Ratchathani and went with wife to do a TM30 report. Immigration officer told wife not necessary, only when returning from outside country.

Ask him if he'll put that in writing for you ????.

 

Yes its all just crap and won't help them find criminals as they say it will. Criminals who don't want to be found are unlikely to comply. Some Immigration Offices enforce it, some don't and many interpret the rules differently. But its their crap and they appear to be going to clamp down on those who fail to register. If your local office will allow you to do it online, it really is very easy to do and doesn't warrant all this discussion. Its just not a problem.

 

I've seen some people report that their local office has asked for the housemaster to be present which may not always practical and at the very least is a hassle.  However, I think its how you talk to them - Korat asked for my housemaster to be present. When I pointed out that she was miles away in Surin, they said get a photocopy of her tabien bahn and ask her to sign it. I don't think they want to put obstacles in your way, they just want you registered.

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I arrived at BKK on Monday 29/04 and after dropping off bags at my condo went to Chaeng Wattana to file TM30 and apply for retirement extension. I arrived at CW 11am and was given ticket B186 for TM30 desks (which recently moved from J desks). There are now 4 desks just for TM30 but only 3 staffed. There were very many people (Thai landlords or their staff) waiting. Some with thick stacks of TM30 forms probably about 15 to 40 forms per agent. As might be expected, the queue went very slowly. Then it was lunch time and the office closed on ticket number 144. On resumption at 1pm it was same again. Very slow. My number finally came up at 2.30pm (2.5 hours waiting). The lady clerk was very helpful and it was standing room only in the desk area. They were overwhelmed with work and going flat out to process all the papers.

 

She had me stand beside her while processing the application and I could view her monitor clearly. She entered my details and all my immigration record of entries and picture from that morning's entry was shown on the screen. After seeing I was filing within the 24 hours it was simply a case of fill out the tear off tab, sign and stamp it then out of the office. She did ask for copies of my land register and purchase contract. 

 

Total time 2hrs 35 minutes. Plus travelling time to/from CW. Glad I don't have to do this again for a long time. 

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3 hours ago, jackdd said:

This is not correct. The law says a foreigner has to notify the competent official 

Could you please tell me where I might find this competent official. I wasn’t aware such a person existed 

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On 4/30/2019 at 12:38 PM, Maestro said:

The factual (de facto) rules are the rules that your local immigration office applies to you at the time you visit the office. These rules may differ from one office to the next and within one office from one official to the next and for one official from one foreigner being dealt with to the next or from one day to the next.

Best answer yet !  no need to read any further.   I have in other tm30 posts tried to explain the situation as it USUALLY applies  ( we file for tenants in CM... for many years without a problem) .  It is usually pretty straightforward unless the new tenant does not have a previous UP TO DATE  tm30 receipt in their possession.   Anyway,  as OP says it is always confusing for some and arguments abound about who and how and when.  So always refer back to Maestros post here !  

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I realise each office has its own interpretation of the rules, but this is what happened to me in Hua Hin this week.

Arrived back from London on Saturday 27th.

Called immigration on Monday and was told yes, you must re-register. Went to the office, no TM28 forms. The young clerk went out back, came out a few minutes later and filled in the form for me. He then said he did not think I needed to do it, but he took my passport to an IO who told me to take a seat and wait. Five minutes later she called me, gave me my passport with a new computer printed slip of the TM28, and she had also changed my 90 day report date from May 22nd. to July 27th.

In and out in fifteen minutes.

Strangest thing is that when I mention this reporting to friends no-one has done it.....:blink:

 

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I actual have now 3 slips in my passport to carry with me.... TM47, TM30 and TM28...
2 provinces so far: Nong Khai and Nakhon Pathom...

Nong Khai was straight forward; no notification = fined

 

Me and my wife said we just arrived and came to the immigration before we even went home...
 

The TM28 is clear: Change of adres OR stay longer then 24 hrs at a certain adres...

Each and every time....

 

As mentioned earlier; TM28 is for the alien, TM30 is for the "house owner"

 

We heard the "opinions", now where to find the actual law ?

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The different numbered arrival card is the red flag... I think that is why very few offices require it, unless you got a new arrival card from leaving and reentering LOS.  Not what you want to do after a thirty hour trip, but it is very quick and easy.  Even in CM they will get you in and out while the roomful of miscreants are trying to complete their first one.  "well I have been here 20 years and have never done it"...only shows the ignorance of some of the long term expats. 

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7 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Could you please tell me where I might find this competent official. I wasn’t aware such a person existed 

Easy. Section 4 of the Immigration Act defines the competent official as follows:


 

Quote

 

Section 4 : In this Act :

...

“ Competent Official ” means any officer appointed by the Minister to carry out a function in conformity
with this Act.

 

 

Therefore, if you choose to mail, for example, your notification of staying in the Kingdom longer than 90 days, address the envelope as follows:

 

     The competent official

     Immigration Office

     [provincce name] [postcode]

 

 

Edited by Maestro
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5 hours ago, Maestro said:

Easy. Section 4 of the Immigration Act defines the competent official as follows:


 

 

Therefore, if you choose to mail, for example, your notification of staying in the Kingdom longer than 90 days, address the envelope as follows:

 

     The competent official

     Immigration Office

     [provincce name] [postcode]

 

 

Nobody will ever claim it

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Thank you everyone for the valuable information provided.  My mother is staying with my wife and I in a condo that my wife owns (with 90 day reports currently being done). However, after my mother returns from a short trip abroad, she will move into a condo that I own and we are preparing to file the TM28/TM30 reports for the first time together by mail to the Chaeng Wattana office.

 

Along with the respective TM28/TM30 forms, we will submit copies of our various passport details including:  photo page, arrival stamp, current visa and permission to stay, TM6 departure card as well as copies of the blue house-book for the condo (currently with no name and I do have a yellow book), chanote, and condo purchase contract.

 

Since there is no rental contract and the utilities such as water, electric, and internet are all in my name, do we need to submit any other “proof of residence” document or will stating her relationship to me as “Mother” on the TM30 spreadsheet details normally be sufficient in the case of family members (we have the same last name on our passports)? 

 

I guess this question also applies when we get ready to apply for her extension based on retirement?  Any other “proof of residence” document typically needed in the case of family members living in your condo?  Thanks.

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Thank you everyone for the valuable information provided.  My mother is staying with my wife and I in a condo that my wife owns (with 90 day reports currently being done). However, after my mother returns from a short trip abroad, she will move into a condo that I own and we are preparing to file the TM28/TM30 reports for the first time together by mail to the Chaeng Wattana office.

 

Along with the respective TM28/TM30 forms, we will submit copies of our various passport details including:  photo page, arrival stamp, current visa and permission to stay, TM6 departure card as well as copies of the blue house-book for the condo (currently with no name and I do have a yellow book), chanote, and condo purchase contract.

 

Since there is no rental contract and the utilities such as water, electric, and internet are all in my name, do we need to submit any other “proof of residence” document or will stating her relationship to me as “Mother” on the TM30 spreadsheet details normally be sufficient in the case of family members (we have the same last name on our passports)? 

 

I guess this question also applies when we get ready to apply for her extension based on retirement?  Any other “proof of residence” document typically needed in the case of family members living in your condo?  Thanks.

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On 5/2/2019 at 2:48 AM, soi3eddie said:

Total time 2hrs 35 minutes. Plus travelling time to/from CW. Glad I don't have to do this again for a long time. 

 

Thanks for the update.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare, especially for people traveling in and out on a busy schedule.

 

I hope that the more people will report on time, the less beneficial it will be for them to handle all this load without getting any revenue.

Lets pray that Maybe then they will drop this nasty rule..

 

 

Edited by LongTang
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I just did my 90 day check in no issues..I am renter in BKK...No idea what the landlord has or hasn't done...I came came back from the USA in January no issues when returning and no issues doing my 90 day retirement visa location check in in late March 2019....

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2 hours ago, newarrior said:

I just did my 90 day check in no issues..I am renter in BKK...No idea what the landlord has or hasn't done...I came came back from the USA in January no issues when returning and no issues doing my 90 day retirement visa location check in in late March 2019....

 

Maybe you can ask your landlord if he actually did report your arrival at some point.

If he did, then its not much of a news..

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