Welding Nubee

[LukKrueng]

Hi all,

 

I just bought a new welding machine - Kanto KT-IGBT-451 and trying to get the hang of welding... 

I can get a spark but can't hold an arc for more than a couple of seconds at a time (most time I cant get beyond the spark..).

I am using Kobe Steel electrodes, RB-26/2.6mm. The welder has a 2nd knob for arc force and I tried various settings from min to max and many steps in between.

I have read on some welding forums that some rodes are easier to work with and I guess that as a beginner I might be better off trying those. The question is - which is the best for beginners that is available in Thailand? 

I would appreciate any information about electrodes available here and also if anyone can explain how to use the arc force.

 

Thanks ????

[Crossy]

Task A - Nip down to your local welding supply place and get an "automatic" welding helmet, it makes life sooo much easier.

 

Get some 1/4" scrap and practice starting and holding the arc, about 80A should be good with those rods.

 

No idea what "arc force" does, is the manual any help? Failing that set it mid-way and forget it.

 

[Vacuum]

Checking the actual voltage available could give some clue to the "couple of seconds" burst.

[Kwasaki]

25 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

would appreciate any information about electrodes available here and also if anyone can explain how to use the arc force.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/arc-force.html

[eyecatcher]

Electrodes here are limited to 6013 Kobe,Bison and maybe one other.

It took me a year on and off to get the hang of it and I am still crap.

A few tips I found out for myself.

Like you i tried all the settings and have realised that for general 1.5-2.3g steel a setting of 105A gets the steel hot enough almost immediately.

If your steel is painted forget it though primer is ok.

I prefer the bison electrodes but they must be dry, in wet season i have put mine in the oven and then kept them inside in a cling film.

Thicker steel is much easier to weld, the 1.2g requires more skill and a setting around 75A so as not to burn a hole in it.

 

Like most jobs its not as easy as it looks, and needs practice.

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Electrodes here are limited to 6013 Kobe,Bison and maybe one other.

7016 Yawata are also available

[Wirejerker]

Before you even start welding ensure you have a good connection with the work clamp. Some of the clamps provided are a poor excuse so you should clean back to bright metal where you clamp it on. When you strike the arc lay the electrode over to about 45 degrees and the arc should maintain now you can stand it more upright and do some welding. Practice and get one of crossies self darkening helmet, I know if I had one I’d prob be able to weld by now. Number 1 get a good connection on that work clamp. Good luck


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[Crossy]

57 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Like most jobs its not as easy as it looks, and needs practice.

 

+ 10⁶

 

I learnt XX years back as an apprentice (arc and gas), it took me a considerable amount of practice to re-learn (and the pigeons still poo neater than my welds).

 

[CharlieH]

You tube is your friend, plenty on there to help and guide you.

 

Arc force......see here

 

https://youtu.be/Fph3SFeMfVA

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

Task A - Nip down to your local welding supply place and get an "automatic" welding helmet, it makes life sooo much easier.

 

Get some 1/4" scrap and practice starting and holding the arc, about 80A should be good with those rods.

 

No idea what "arc force" does, is the manual any help? Failing that set it mid-way and forget it.

 

already ordered an automatic welding helmet from lazada. I'm sure it will make life easier when I'll have 2 free hands...

as for scraps - I have lots of metal scraps, leftovers from my house construction..... Those kind of U shape metal used for the roofing beams. 

the arc force knob is supposed to compensate for long/short arc but no clear instructions about it

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Checking the actual voltage available could give some clue to the "couple of seconds" burst.

do you mean the outlet voltage? I don't have a volt meter, but during construction and for some tasks after construction was done the workers used to connect their Welles to the same supply so I guess it should be ok

[sidgy]

Agree with all comments above. Tried my first welding 2-3 years ago, disastrous to begin with. Just practice, practice and a bit more practice. With that size welding rods, do not try to weld anything smaller then 2.6mm steel else you will just end up putting holes in it, especially whilst learning. Definitely get the auto darkening helmet, makes things so much easier. Also spend the hard time preparing the steel, with an angle grinder on where you are going to weld and also where you attach the clamp, you will find it much easier to both start and keep an arc. On my set, using 2.6 rods, I usually have the amps set at 85-90 . I have also found for me ,It’s so much easier welding in darker environments ie not in direct sunlight


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[CGW]

& wear a long sleeve shirt else you will burn! 

[Lacessit]

Electrodes are quite sensitive to humidity, a lot of that in Thailand. My guess would be you have a crappy batch.

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, eyecatcher said:

Electrodes here are limited to 6013 Kobe,Bison and maybe one other.

It took me a year on and off to get the hang of it and I am still crap.

A few tips I found out for myself.

Like you i tried all the settings and have realised that for general 1.5-2.3g steel a setting of 105A gets the steel hot enough almost immediately.

If your steel is painted forget it though primer is ok.

I prefer the bison electrodes but they must be dry, in wet season i have put mine in the oven and then kept them inside in a cling film.

Thicker steel is much easier to weld, the 1.2g requires more skill and a setting around 75A so as not to burn a hole in it.

 

Like most jobs its not as easy as it looks, and needs practice.

Like most jobs its not as easy as it looks <<< right on...

As for the different brands of electrodes - which did you use as a beginner? Is there a real difference in ease / difficulty (for beginners)?

Not realizing at the beginning that the amp rate is related to the thickness of the electrode, in my initial attempts I went higher and higher on the amp rate...  Last night I dug into the internet and today I was using mostly 75amp, but also tried a bit lower and u to 80 (the range for the Kobe 2.6mm is 45-95 as it says on the box)

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

You tube is your friend, plenty on there to help and guide you.

 

Arc force......see here

 

https://youtu.be/Fph3SFeMfVA

So higher arc force should make it easier?

[eyecatcher]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

You tube is your friend, plenty on there to help and guide you.

 

Arc force......see here

 

https://youtu.be/Fph3SFeMfVA

You know after my initial failures, I did exactly that, I watched every welding video You Tube had, (still remember the geeky southern accent Yankee dude now)

Truth is I learned nothing about stick welding.

Where I did learn is having someone beside you or watching someone here in the field, and picking up some techniques.

[eyecatcher]

32 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Like most jobs its not as easy as it looks <<< right on...

As for the different brands of electrodes - which did you use as a beginner? Is there a real difference in ease / difficulty (for beginners)?

Not realizing at the beginning that the amp rate is related to the thickness of the electrode, in my initial attempts I went higher and higher on the amp rate...  Last night I dug into the internet and today I was using mostly 75amp, but also tried a bit lower and u to 80 (the range for the Kobe 2.6mm is 45-95 as it says on the box)

The giveaway that your amp is too low is the electrode sticking to the steel.

I find that anythi g less than 75 is just a waste of sticks and joints full of slag

I just get my electrodes from the usual outlets as most people do hence why the choice is bleak but there are no training electrodes!!

Stick welding needs more profiency than other weld techniques that may have a constant gas flow or an automatic flux generator.

[LukKrueng]

59 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Where I did learn is having someone beside you or watching someone here in the field, and picking up some techniques.

Talked to the constructor who built my house. He'll come over next week to have a look at the welder and I'll get to see him use it and him see me and instruct...

 

This afternoon session I put it on 85amp and also cleaned the metal with a grinder. managed to get longer arc time for a while and than back to nothing...

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

This afternoon session I put it on 85amp and also cleaned the metal with a grinder. managed to get longer arc time for a while and than back to nothing...

Are you burning through the metal yet?

 

for most of the metal used here it is so thin that if you do get a  continuous weld you will probably me heat the steel too much

[LukKrueng]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Are you burning through the metal yet?

 

for most of the metal used here it is so thin that if you do get a  continuous weld you will probably me heat the steel too much

nope. didn't get to burn holes in the metal

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

nope. didn't get to burn holes in the metal

Surprising, congratulations, how thick is the metal and where are the pictures?

[VocalNeal]

As we know the problem for learners is the ability to feed the stick into the pool at the correct rate. It is after all a skill. 

When and arc is struck the electrode starts to melt . If one does not feed the electrode into the pool  the gap gets bigger and the arc is lost. 

It is just like any other skill such as say handwriting. It takes time and practise. 

[LukKrueng]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

It is just like any other skill such as say handwriting

I really hope my welding will be MUCH better than my handwriting... My 3rd grade teacher tried really hard to improve it alas with no success. At uni lecturers told students in other sessions about my notorious bad handwriting I was asked by some1 which FOOT I am using to write...

[LukKrueng]

20 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Surprising, congratulations, how thick is the metal and where are the pictures?

The last 1 is the main gate rail fixed yesterday. I'll probably want to redo it once I get the hang of welding...

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I had a little project ongoing in my garden that required welding, as luck would have it my BIL bought a welder off the net and lent me it.
Bought some electrodes and set about having a trial run with some offcuts.
I hadn’t welded since college in ‘77 but you never forget ...? .... right ?...........WRONG !!
Practised for a couple of days and managed a half decent weld on a scrap piece on my workbench.
But, as my welding is going to be for a sala roof I decided to admit defeat and called my builder guy, who came and did a great job.
With my welding it would have probably come crashing down overnight !!

Hope you’re not attempting anything overhead OP ??

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I had a little project ongoing in my garden that required welding, as luck would have it my BIL bought a welder off the net and lent me it.
Bought some electrodes and set about having a trial run with some offcuts.
I hadn’t welded since college in ‘77 but you never forget ...? .... right ?...........WRONG !!
Practised for a couple of days and managed a half decent weld on a scrap piece on my workbench.
But, as my welding is going to be for a sala roof I decided to admit defeat and called my builder guy, who came and did a great job.
With my welding it would have probably come crashing down overnight !!

Hope you’re not attempting anything overhead OP ??

No, nothing that big. For this I'll always call the pro's. Just small things on the farm like fixing the gate's rail, structuring a frame for the passion fruits (well, this will be overhead...) etc'

[Damrongsak]

With that RB-26 electrode (E6013), you can almost drag the rod.  Try to keep a very short arc, like the diameter of the electrode (not the coating).  Practice on a flat piece of thicker steel until you can actually run a bead.  Try 95 Amps.  Also try to watch the puddle that forms, not the arc itself. 

 

This is a bead my son ran at school with 3.2mm E6013 vertical down.  He was running on AC at 135 Amps.  It was a very quick weld.

 

 

Good video: Stick welding with 6013:  http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding-with-6013.html

 

Rb-26 spec sheet:  http://www.kobewelding.com/TechnicalReport/RB-26.pdf

 

 

[impulse]

Just to show the options in Thailand aren't as limited as some seem to think...

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/weldmaxx-stainless-steel-welding-electrode-wm-308l-20mm-15-kg-i9915334-s469580673.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/yawata-ft51-20-mm-x300-mm-25-kg-i125132841-s131198053.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop/lertvilai/?spm=a2o4m.pdp.seller.1.1fd96194oECiHe&itemId=125132841&channelSource=pdp

 

Without checking the preferred polarity of the rod you're using (DC+ or DC-), I would point out that the (admittedly cheap) welder I bought in Thailand came with the red terminal being negative.  

 

[VocalNeal]

 

Looks as good as the ones I used to do. Did the slag curl up like an apple peel as he was welding?