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BANGKOK 26 June 2019 20:00
WaveHunter

Water Only Fasting...Should you do it / How should you do it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, meinphuket said:

I just finished a 7 week fast, and I was by no means overweight, but am now rail thin.  //

7 weeks without food !?? :wacko:

A stupid but efficient way to destroy your body :ohmy:

Edit:

Is it even possible to do so ?

and did you stop only because they took you to an hospital ?

 

Edited by Pattaya46
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

And what is your educational background that gave you the abilities to wade through the mis-information and half-truths?

Where did you get your PhD in nutritional science and on what subject exactly?

 

Or are you just a member of a Facebook-group about this subject where everyone is saying "autophagy" (which is about cellular biology, not about health, nutrition, or weight loss) and people blindly follow Jason Fung (a kidney disease doctor with no training or education in nutritional science)? 

 

I smell the Dunning-Kruger effect very strongly, but really hope you got a PhD in nutritional science and can proof me wrong.

So, are you saying it takes a PhD to read and use your brain?  C'mon, be real buddy! 

 

I suppose you are also saying that if one has a PhD in nutrition, that makes them an acknowledged authority? 

 

Most of the PhD's and MD's I know of have very little contemporary knowledge of the current state of ongoing research into the link between nutrition and disease states that are now being recognized to have a metabolic basis. 

 

Many are still mired in the dogma of the 1980's citing the virtues of carbohydrates as a foundation for good nutrition based on the now totally debunked "food pyramid"!

 

There are plenty of world-renowned scientists pursuing this line of study that advocates that many diseases such as obesity, Diabetes type-2, many types of cancers, neuro degenerative diseases sucvh as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and ALS seem to have a metabolic basis that was never suspected before.  Some have even received Nobel prizes for their research in this field.

 

So, this is no fad, no Facebook Group BS, no guru-speak, except for those who try to monetize on this legitimate research.  This is the real deal!

 

And FYI, Autophagy is VERY MUCH related to nutrition!  How do you think Yoshinori Ohsumi induced the autophagic response in all of his landmark studies, for which he was awarded the Nobel Price in 2016?  He did it by limiting nutrients, so that selective (damaged) proteins would be catabolized and recycled! 

 

Guess what?  That's the exact same thing that happens when you enter into ketosis during a fast!  Restoring the balance between fat metabolism and carbohydrate metabolism is what keto-adaptation is all about, and it is brought about by fasting, and YES, autophagy plays a very big role!

 

How many PhD nutritionist or medical doctors are even aware of Ohsumi's work or any of the other cutting edge research that's occurring today in this field?  Not many.  You obviously do not either if you can make such a silly comment about autophagy not being related to nutrition! 

 

Basic understanding of the metabolic sciences as well as the current state of research and how they apply to healthy (or unhealthy) states is not rocket science, nor does it take a PhD to appreciate.

 

Maybe you should stop being so damn lazy, using the excuse that only a PhD can understand these things, and become better informed before making such silly and CLEARLY inflammatory comments.

 

Edited by WaveHunter
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7 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Sounds too me that you’re overdoing the fasting.

what ur height and weight?

What's your basis for saying that?  Care to explain?

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2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Yes, we are all gonna die someday.  I, however, prefer to have a healthy and productive life until that day, not be dealing with debilitating diseases like obesity, Diabetes type-2, Alzheimer’s, or Parkinson’s.

 

Taking the time to understand that such diseases are metabolic-based isn’t too much of a price to pay.  

 

Whether you realize it or not there has been a paradyme shift recently in our understanding of nutrition.  You can either embrace those changes, or just stick your head in the sand and ignore them....your choice.

Spoken like a true believer!

Maybe I'll cut out sugar.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, seancbk said:

I started intermittent fasting back in February.  The reason I started was simple, I am 185 cm tall (6 foot) and my waistline had grown to 34" (and edging closer to 35-36 I guess). 
I was invited to a black tie event and was looking forward to being able to dress smart.  The only problem was my evening dress trousers had a 32" waist.  I thought maybe they had some adjustment or I'd be able to squeeze into them, but when I tried there was no way I was going to be able to do them up.   I was forced to wear a regular black suit which was fine as there were other people also not wearing proper black tie, but the fact I couldn't fit into my own clothes was a big alarm.   

So I decided to do something about it.  First step was to cut out all bread, pasta and rice.  Then I started cutting down on beer carbs by switching from Beer Lao or Asahi to only drinking San Mig Light (I've now gone further and switched to just drinking Soda water and the occasional Vodka Soda).

Then I started intermittent fasting on the OMAD plan (OMAD - One Meal a Day).   I only eat one meal per 24 hours.   

I get up between 8 am and 9 am and have a cup of black coffee (Nescafe Red Cup Instant), then I drink a large glass of water with a berroca tablet.   Throughout the day I only drink water.   Then around 5:30 I cook myself a meal which consists of at least 250-300 g of protein, either pork (grilled) or chicken (poached), a head of broccoli (steamed) or other green vegetables (either steamed or lightly sauteed).  I also take a multivitamin and mineral supplement with my meal.   

I've recently started swimming and doing some basic body weight exercises and a few sets of exercises with free weights.   

I was 82 kgs and I'm now 70 kgs - a loss of 12 kgs in approx 12 weeks.   And of course I can easily fit into jeans and trousers with a 32" waist

 

I noticed I felt more mental clarity within about a week of starting the new diet, I also found I slept better and had more energy in the mornings.

During my teens, 20's and 30's I was nice and slim, it was only as I got into my 40's that I started to get a bit of a belly.   That is now gone and I've got the beginning of a nice flat stomach. not yet quite like I had in my 20's and 30's but getting there.  

The other great thing about it is I have a bunch of nice slim fit shirts and a few pairs of jeans which I haven't been able to wear for a couple of years and which now fit perfectly, it's as if I've upgraded my wardrobe and friends have complimented me asking if I've bought new clothes

I'm pretty sure I'm going to continue this OMAD lifestyle, I definitely feel better for changing up my diet and being able to buy and wear stylish clothes is a huge bonus.

You are the perfect example of someone who approaches weight loss correctly.  Congratulations!  You deserve it!  Just my personal opinion but I think most people would benefit from following a one-meal-a-day (OMAD) protocol.

 

I switched to this way of eating too.  If you understand basic carbohydrate metabolism it makes SO MUCH SENSE.  There is a major obesity epidemic today and much of it is because people eat from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed.  They basically are "food grazers"! 

 

What's so bad about this sort of eating behavior is that not only are excessive calories being consumed, but massive amounts of insulin are being released steadily throughout the entire day.  In many people this will eventually lead to insulin receptor insensitivity, and eventually destruction of the receptors altogether.  Another term for this... Diabtetes Type-2!

 

OMAD is one of the best ways to avoid this IMHO.  Many people find OMAD intolerable and make up excuses that they'll be too tired throughout the day if they don't eat 3 squares a day.  that line of reasoning is just nonsense.  It takes time to adapt to OMAD but once you do, you don't really miss the other meals, and as for maintaining energy throughout the day, most people do just fine.  The body is resilient and able to adapt far more than most people give it credit for.

 

If they are particularly active, say in sports, or a physically demanding job like construction, a second mid-day meal might be good, or just a proper snack like some fruit will do the trick, bit very few people need anymore than 2 meals per day at the very most.  

 

Anyway, nice job and nice post; your story should be an inspiration for others to do the same.

Edited by WaveHunter
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6 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Spoken like a true believer!

Maybe I'll cut out sugar.

Nice!  I hope you do. 

 

If a person could do one single thing to improve their health, cutting down on sugar, particularly processed sugars like high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) would be it, in my opinion! The trouble is, HFCS is found in almost all processed foods these days, particularly processed foods labelled as being "low-fat".

 

When they take the fat out, a food will typically become almost unpalatable.  How do they fix this?  They add HFCS!  The whole concept of low-fat processed foods being more healthy for you is a total farce! 

 

The real motive behind it has nothing to do with these foods being more healthy, when in fact they are the exact opposite.  The motive is that processed foods are much cheaper to produce that natural foods, and HFCS is one of the least costly additives there is.

 

So it improves the bottom line for the processed food industry, but even worst for the consumer (and better for the industry) is that sugars like this are highly addictive and turn off the satiety centers in the brain, thus making us eat even more!

 

It's all very diabolical when you really think about it!

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2 hours ago, Harveyg said:

Thanks for the post.  I actually started my first 3 day fast this morning - California time and found your message encouraging to me to complete the fast.   I can’t talk the science.  Not enough has sunk in yet. I’m not interested in losing weight, but in the effects of autuphagy. Last week I finished watching pieces of the Fasting Transformation Summit, a 7 part docuseries that came into my email because of other things I’ve watched. You may find this useful but I’m not sure how much of it is still accessible for free. 

The only fast I’ve done before was a 30 day, 3liters/day, green juice fast, on the advice of an American doctor in Bkk.  Totally eliminated my tiredness and high blood pressure. 

Perhaps you could answer a question?  If I drink a liter of green juice per day during the water fast does it interfere with autophagy?

thanks. 

Yes, juice whether fruit or vegetable will definitely interfere with autophagy.  

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36 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

What's your basis for saying that?  Care to explain?

Oh u answer my question with an question..

Anyway how do u regard the 16:8 and the 5:2 diet in comparison what ur doing?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, villagefarang said:

“Water Only Fasting…Should you do it / How should you do it?”

 

Sure, if you want to try it, why not.  The how is easy, as all you have to do is stop eating for a period of time and only drink water.

 

It is very simple and it doesn’t take twenty years of study and a bunch of click-bait terminology or self-aggrandizing proselytizing to see if it works for you.  You are not superhuman if you do it and you are not a failure if you can't stick with it for more than a few hour.  

 

I am quite certain none of us are qualified to determine the efficacy of all the studies and claims posted online, including the summaries of studies posted by the OP.

Well, maybe you should re-read my post because you obviously don't understand what I said.  Sure anyone can go on a fast.  Fasting is not really what I'm talking about.  Keto-adaptation is.  Water fasting is the means to achieve keto-adaptation.

 

Yes, I intentionally used the term water fasting as click-bait because most people are not familiar with the term keto-adaptation.  Furthermore, most people incorrectly attribute fasting as an efficient means of long-term weight loss, when in fact it is NOT!  In other words, they are interested in water fasting, for all of the WRONG reasons.

 

There are very real health benefits to becoming keto-adapted, and fasting is how it is achieved.  I am not talking about fantastical claims that many health gurus attribute to keto-adaptation or fasting, I am talking about cutting edge research being conducted by renowned scientists, some of whom have received Nobel Prizes for their work!

 

Considering the fact that this research is revealing for the first time that a metabolic basis for many diseases such as obesity, Diabetes Type-2, many forms of cancer, and neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and ALS, I would assume that many people SHOULD be interested and want to learn more! 

 

I am NOT talking about some silly diet fad...FAR FROM IT!

 

 

To say that "...none of us are qualified to determine the efficacy of all the studies..." is simply the excuse lazy and/or ignorant people use for not trying to be informed.

 

Basic understanding of the metabolic sciences, and of current research and its' implications for living a healthy life does not take a PhD to understand!

 

You are free to stick your head in the sand and ignore science if you like.  Many people however have a desire to explore science-based information with an open mind, discus it with other like-minded people, and debate the fine points. THIS THREAD IS FOR THEM.

 

This thread is not for people who's only desire is to make inflammatory comments, yet are too lazy and/or are too close minded to even explore the underlying science of what they are attacking.

Edited by WaveHunter
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Oh u answer my question with an question..

Anyway how do u regard the 16:8 and the 5:2 diet in comparison what ur doing?

You made an incomplete comment; I asked you to expand and explain yourself.  Is that so hard to do? 

 

You "question" was totally irrelevant and providing only those two pieces of data would be pointless, but I'll provide them if that seems important to you...but I will provide the context that will make them relevant which you should have asked for int he first place.

 

I am 165 cm tall, weigh 63kg.  My Body fat is 11%  I am a competitive road cyclist so having low body fat (and low riding weight) is important to me, but being able to generate high watts during a ride is also important, thus my interest in cutting edge nutrition, and keto adapted nutrition in particular since it better allows me to tap into stored fat as a fuel source instead of only being able to rely on a glucose-dominant metabolism.

 

My use of water fasting has NOTHING to do with weight management.  Being keto adapted and riding bicycles takes care of that for me.  My interest in fasting is that it promotes autophagy, and it also acts as a stressor to the body that helps to keep me keto-adapted.

 

Edited by WaveHunter
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You made an incomplete comment; I asked you to expand and explain yourself.  Is that so hard to do? 

 

You "question" was totally irrelevant and providing only those two pieces of data would be pointless, but I'll provide them if that seems important to you...but I will provide the context that will make them relevant which you should have asked for int he first place.

 

I am 165 cm tall, weigh 63kg.  My Body fat is 11%  I am a competitive road cyclist so having low body fat (and low riding weight) is important to me, but being able to generate high watts during a ride is also important, thus my interest in cutting edge nutrition, and keto adapted nutrition in particular since it better allows me to tap into stored fat as a fuel source instead of only being able to rely on a glucose-dominant metabolism.

 

My use of water fasting has NOTHING to do with weight management.  Being keto adapted and riding bicycles takes care of that for me.  My interest in fasting is that it promotes autophagy, and it also acts as a stressor to the body that helps to keep me keto-adapted.

 

Oh yeah, as to your second question.  I eat once a day; I am a firm believer in this (for me, not necessarily for anyone else, though I believe many people might benefit from it).  If I am unusually active during the day, I will supplement with fruit if I feel I need it, but basically one-meal-a-day is all I need to feel energetic and healthy, even when trying to ride competitively.

 

If I were to make a point about all of this it would be that I think it's important to "think outside of the box" and not just accept old dogma as the unwavering truth, especially when it comes to a subject that is so much in a state of flux as nutrition is. 

 

The "food pyramid" of the early 1980's is a perfect example of such dogma that ultimately become completely debunked, but is still mostly responsible for the epidemic levels of obesity we see today, and also in the epidemic rise in Diabetes Type 2 ... in children!!! That is something that was unheard of before the 1980's!

Edited by WaveHunter

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

7 weeks without food !?? :wacko:

A stupid but efficient way to destroy your body :ohmy:

Edit:

Is it even possible to do so ?

and did you stop only because they took you to an hospital ?

 

Don't call something "stupid" if you don't have the fact to back it up!  Personally I see no reason to fast that long, but if you are going to say it destroys the body, back up what you say with science based information, not simply your unsupported personal opinion!

 

In fact, many people have fasted for that long and even longer with absolutely no long-term ill-effects.  People do it all the time for religious reasons.  What's more, in clinical settings where a patient might be facing life-threatening complications in late stage Diabetes Type 2, fasts that long are regularly prescribed and the patients not only "survive" but are able to control their Diabetes, and in some cases (if insulin receptor are still intact) even reverse their condition.

 

Then there is the case of Angus Barbieri, who fasted for 382 days for medical reasons back in the mid-60's  He underwent the fast under medical supervision but conducted his day to day life normally, only supplementing with a multi vitamin, and concluded his fast with a weight loss of 125 kg, and suffered no ill effects during or after the fast, and even 5 years after the fast had ony gained back 7.3 kg.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri's_fast

 

Know what you are talking about and support it with science-based facts to back it up or you are just spreading mis-information which helps no one in this thread!

Edited by WaveHunter
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still trying to find what you are selling ? or where are the ads ?!

 

 

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I don't believe in eating once a day, there is only so much protein your body can handle during a single sitting so its not prefect if you want to build muscle. Getting your protein spread out is better in case you want to build muscle. If fat loss is your goal eating once per day might be great if you have insulin problems. If you don't I don't see the point. 

 

Its a strategy that will work for some and not for others. Different goals, different insulin responses different lifestyles. 

 

My advice is just find something that is not too hard and suits you so you can do it forever. Because that is what it takes to stay on weight and healthy. Not a temporary diet to lose some kg's that will be gained back once you switch back to your old habits. 

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Just now, robblok said:

I don't believe in eating once a day, there is only so much protein your body can handle during a single sitting so its not prefect if you want to build muscle. Getting your protein spread out is better in case you want to build muscle. If fat loss is your goal eating once per day might be great if you have insulin problems. If you don't I don't see the point. 

 

Its a strategy that will work for some and not for others. Different goals, different insulin responses different lifestyles. 

 

My advice is just find something that is not too hard and suits you so you can do it forever. Because that is what it takes to stay on weight and healthy. Not a temporary diet to lose some kg's that will be gained back once you switch back to your old habits. 

How much protein do you feel the body can assimilate in one meal?

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