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BANGKOK 26 June 2019 19:10
WaveHunter

Water Only Fasting...Should you do it / How should you do it.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

What do you eat and drink in a week time?

Surely you have a food schedule?

Contribute something productive and useful to this thread. You sure are not doing it with your bait-like comments.  I mean you seem to have absolutely no interest in, or knowledge of this topic.  Why are you even here?  Seriously?

Edited by WaveHunter

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Contribute something positive to this thread. You sure are not doing it with your bait-like comments.

Well i am considering to shift towards the 5:2  meal plan. Since a week i am doing the 16:8 meal plan.

For loosing weight the 5:2 seems more effective then the 16:8.

 

Edited by Destiny1990

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8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree that this is an open forum but I started this thread and it was intended to explore the scientific basis of fasting by intelligent people who are seeking to share and debate pertinent information, NOT be a forum for troll-like posts that only seek to incite unproductive arguments and be personal attacks on others.

I am merely asking you to contribute, not to slander every poster who doesn't agree with your view or needs greater clarification. As it happens the EOD diet programme is scientifically based, so as an intelligant person you might consider contributing in contra beliefs to the long term benefits of water fasting.

 

And BTW, your high handed attitude towards others is not welcome. 

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Wave Watcher,

Are the authorities you refer to medical doctors (MDs) or biochemists. Chiropractors (DC) are good at adjusting spinal conditions, but are not qualified to diagnose or treat other conditions. It sounds like you are not getting sound advice.

BTY the cells in you body are continuously replacing themselves. For instance cells in your intestine lumen generally are replaced ever 7 days and you red blood cells every 120 days. Other cells last much longer but would not be affected by starvation fasting. 

Quote some  real authorities with scientific data , that's published in recognized journals and I'll believe you. Otherwise your blowing smoke.

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Sorry to everyone if I sound like I am on a bully pulpit.  That was not my intention.  I started this thread to explore, share and discuss this topic form a science-based perspective.  The topic is actually "keto-adaptation" not simply "fasting" (for weight loss).  I apologize if I'm coming off sounding like a know-it-all, but I have spent over 20 years with a serious interest in this topic and am getting frustrated with the overwhelming negative (yet unfounded) views about fasting. 

 

I have absolutely no issue with people debating me or having differing opinions from mine as long as they back up what they say with science.  One of the main reasons I started this thread was to explore all the "gray" areas of this topic so, of course, I welcome varying opinions from my own so these unknown can be debated vigorously, but that is not what seems to be occurring.  Instead, many are simply mocking the whole idea of keto-adaptation and fasting without presenting any scientific basis for their view.  I don't see how that is productive. 

 

If you don't believe in fasting, and more importantly keto-adaptation, I have no problem with that at all.  Each to their own.  All I am asking is make a contribution to this thread and explain, in a science-based way, WHY you feel that way.

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On 5/7/2019 at 2:24 PM, WaveHunter said:

I regularly fast (72 hour fast monthly, and 5 day fast once or twice a year)

That is not fasting ... with that statement you completely disqualified yourself as a "self proclaimed" expert on fasting.

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5 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Wave Watcher,

Are the authorities you refer to medical doctors (MDs) or biochemists. Chiropractors (DC) are good at adjusting spinal conditions, but are not qualified to diagnose or treat other conditions. It sounds like you are not getting sound advice.

BTY the cells in you body are continuously replacing themselves. For instance cells in your intestine lumen generally are replaced ever 7 days and you red blood cells every 120 days. Other cells last much longer but would not be affected by starvation fasting. 

Quote some  real authorities with scientific data , that's published in recognized journals and I'll believe you. Otherwise your blowing smoke.

Look, with all due respect, I am not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, nor am I trying to promote keto-adaptation or fasting to anyone.  This thread was directed to people who already are familiar with concepts, and want to engage in intelligent discussion and debate over the topic.  That includes people who have negative views on the topic.

 

The "authorities" I base my own views on are well-recognized medical and scientific researchers throughout the world; some are even Nobel Prize winners for their research related to this topic, not simply chiropractors with a YouTube channel (not that there is anything necessarily bad with that).  When it's appropriate I always cite specific studies that back up my claims; not third party interpretations from a YouTube guru channel or a website trying to sell a diet plan since those sources almost always use half-truths and outright mis-information that is cherry-picked to support an agenda.

 

All I am really asking is that if somebody has a view that is counter to mine they back up what they say in a science-based way.

 

I really don't want to feel like I should be put in a position of defending the voracity of this topic.  If you don't think it is a legitimate field to discuss and I'm just "blowing smoke", that's your opinion and you are entitled to that.  This thread however is really for those who do want to explore and debate the topic in a serious, science-based way, not simply get into a pissing match with mean-spirited, pithy remarks and personal attacks (not that that is what you are doing, but many other are).

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Enki said:

That is not fasting ... with that statement you completely disqualified yourself as a "self proclaimed" expert on fasting.

Why do you say that a 72 hour fast or 5 day fast is not a fast?  That makes no sense.  Care to expand on that?

Edited by WaveHunter
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1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

Why do you say that?

Why do you ask? Rofl, you get more and more ridiculous ... why actually asking/starting a thread in a forum about Thailand?

 

Please, do everyone a favour and stop talking about fasting until you actually have fasted. And that simply means: no eating for 4 to 6 or even 8 weeks ... WEEKS not days.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Wave Watcher,

Are the authorities you refer to medical doctors (MDs) or biochemists. Chiropractors (DC) are good at adjusting spinal conditions, but are not qualified to diagnose or treat other conditions. It sounds like you are not getting sound advice.

BTY the cells in you body are continuously replacing themselves. For instance cells in your intestine lumen generally are replaced ever 7 days and you red blood cells every 120 days. Other cells last much longer but would not be affected by starvation fasting. 

Quote some  real authorities with scientific data , that's published in recognized journals and I'll believe you. Otherwise your blowing smoke.

FYI, yes I agree that cells within the body are continually replaced as a normal process; when it comes to intracellular materials, it's referred to as "autophagy", and it goes on 24/7 within our bodies.

 

However, when you fast the process of intracellular recycling is ramped up markedly.  This happens because there is an interim period of time before ketone bodies are sufficiently produced to fuel the brain directly, and to fuel the body through liberated fatty acids that the body is forced to burn proteins.  

 

Many people cite this fact as a main reason NOT to fast; because you will "burn muscle.  This however is incorrect.  The reason is because the body doesn't just randomly burn proteins, but rather, it targets damaged and dysfunctional intracellular proteins, breaking them down for energy and then creating fresh fully functional new proteins in their place, while leaving more essential proteins such as those associated with the muscle and heart intact/

 

These damaged proteins are what many scientists are coming to believe may be the root cause of diseases such many forms of cancer as well as neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimers and Parkinsons.  

 

Fasting causes this ramped-up state of autophagy to occur, and was always the triggering mechanism in all research over the past decade into autophagic processes. 

 

You want real authorities with real research that back up what I am saying here?  Google the Japanese cell biologist, Yoshinori Ohsumi, who was awarded the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his groundbreaking discoveries and documentation of this very process.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5240711/

 

 

Edited by WaveHunter

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Enki said:

Why do you ask? Rofl, you get more and more ridiculous ... why actually asking/starting a thread in a forum about Thailand?

 

Please, do everyone a favour and stop talking about fasting until you actually have fasted. And that simply means: no eating for 4 to 6 or even 8 weeks ... WEEKS not days.

4 to 6 weeks, or even 8 weeks, huh?  OK, You're entitled to have an opinion I suppose, but that is about the most uninformed remark I've seen posted on this thread!  I guess you've been watching too many YouTube videos.

Edited by WaveHunter

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Well i am considering to shift towards the 5:2  meal plan. Since a week i am doing the 16:8 meal plan.

For loosing weight the 5:2 seems more effective then the 16:8.

 

I really don't prescribe to any weight loss diets myself but any form of intermittent fasting is a good thing since it controls insulin release and minimizes receptor insensitivity.  I guess it's a personal choice, but of the two choices, I'd opt for 16:8 since that is very easy to do once you get acclimated to it, because it just becomes a daily habit after a while that you don't even think about, and you don't have to be measuring calories or get in the mood for your two days of fasting.  Not only that but I think it keeps your insulin levels more stable overall while minimizing spikes, and that is really the name of the game for mobilizing stored fat.  Just my opinion.

Edited by WaveHunter
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1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I really don't prescribe to any weight loss diets myself but any form of intermittent fasting is a good thing since it controls insulin release and minimizes receptor insensitivity.  I guess it's a personal choice, but of the two choices, I'd opt for 16:8 since that is very easy to do once you get acclimated to it, because it just becomes a daily habit after a while that you don't even think about, and you don't have to be measuring calories or get in the mood for your two days of fasting.  Not only that but I think it keeps your insulin levels more stable overall while minimizing spikes, and that is really the name of the game for mobilizing stored fat.  Just my opinion.

Yes but i think 5:2 more popular for loosing weight.. maybe because results will be faster with 5:2 because of actual less intake of food/calories for at least 2 days a week.

16:8 yes it’s probably easier to follow especially if not drinking alcohol to follow that program. Also within the 16:8 you can consume the same calories amount as without any fast program so not sure how effective weight-loss that will be by only narrowing the eating  timeframe.

I could consider continue doing 16:8 but with smaller amounts of carbohydrates and more veggies in those 8 hours?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes but i think 5:2 more popular for loosing weight.. maybe because results will be faster with 5:2 because of actual less intake of food/calories for at least 2 days a week.

16:8 yes it’s probably easier to follow especially if not drinking alcohol to follow that program. Also within the 16:8 you can consume the same calories amount as without any fast program so not sure how effective weight-loss that will be by only narrowing the eating  timeframe.

I could consider continue doing 16:8 but with smaller amounts of carbohydrates and more veggies in those 8 hours?

Really what ever works best for you; everybody is different.  No matter how you do it, I think the real key is cutting carbohydrates, particularly high glycemic ones (i.e.: processed foods containing high fructose corm syrup).  If all you did was to banish those kind of foods, you'd shed excess body fat, no matter what diet you ascribe to.  More natural fats and less carbs in your diet is more satiating so you will naturally consume less calories, and activate less insulin release.  It's a more comfortable and more sustainable was to shed excess body fat.  To me, that's the "perfect storm" for fat loss if that is your goal.

 

Edited by WaveHunter

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7 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

However, when you fast the process of intracellular recycling is ramped up markedly.  This happens because there is an interim period of time before ketone bodies are sufficiently produced to fuel the brain directly, and to fuel the body through liberated fatty acids that the body is forced to burn proteins.  

 

Many people cite this fact as a main reason NOT to fast; because you will "burn muscle.  This however is incorrect.  The reason is because the body doesn't just randomly burn proteins, but rather, it targets damaged and dysfunctional intracellular proteins, breaking them down for energy and then creating fresh fully functional new proteins in their place, while leaving more essential proteins such as those associated with the muscle and heart intact/

This is interesting, and needs scientific proof because I would refer you to the Every Other Day Diet where it has been scientifically proven by Krista Varady from tests on mice  initially - followed by humans - that the animals would suffer a loss of muscle mass if they were given no food on fast day. I accept mice are not human and I would appreciate your scientific link to your assertion in bold above. 

 

As an aside she recommends 'intermittent fasting' not total fasting on fasting day. While I prefer the keto approach as to what foods to consume - high fat, low carbs - I am reluctant now to continue with any water fasting over 18 hours per day. 

 

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