Blacklist or ban?

[Encore]

 

Good day,

 

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions from forum members.

 

I lived in Thailand for 5 years on a 1 year renewable O-A visa.  After some new arrivals on the street I was subject to abuse and minor assaults for 3 months.  This  culminated in an unprovoked assault, while cleaning a table top on my verandah.  The police were called and I was arrested.  After some months in prison, I was convinced to plead guilty, to a (contrived) attempted arson charge, being told there could be no defence against the police report.  

 

I received a 2 year suspended sentence and told I was free but, on leaving prison, I was detained by police and sent to a regional IDC and then IDC BKK before being deported.  I was not told or given anything relating to my deportation, other than a stamp in my passport (copy attached).

 

I would like to return to Thailand to reclaim my belongings which are, apparently, being held by the landlord.  

 

I have contacted lawyers but, so far, they have been unwilling to assist.  

 

Can any forum members please advise:

- am I banned or I ‘blacklisted’ from entering Thailand?

- is there any period before I can apply to re-enter Thailand?

- is there any procedure or appeal process to mitigate this issue to allow me to return to Thailand?

 

Thank you for any useful suggestions.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Scott

[BritManToo]

Stamp says .........

Banned from entering Thailand for two years.

Never admit guilt, unless you're prepared to accept the consequences, there's no way back.

Edited May 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[scubascuba3]

2 sides to this story

[nickstav]

So if all you want is to get back your stuff, contact your landlord, send him some money to ship to you. You were here for 5 years, so you must know somebody who could act on your behalf to arrange with your landlord. Unless there's more to this story (???).

[jackdd]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Stamp says .........

Banned from entering Thailand for two years.

Never admit guilt, unless you're prepared to accept the consequences, there's no way back.

Imho the stamp doesn't say anything about a ban. It says he was sentenced to 1 year 8 months jail which is suspended for two years and that you are considered as "Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation" (12.7 of the immigration act) which is the reason why you were deported.

So unless you have any other stamps in your passport you should be able to enter Thailand again, but in the future any IO at the border might just deny you entry under 12.7. And if you do anything wrong in the next two years you will end up in jail, so you should consider if you want to risk it.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Apply for a visa and look if you get one.

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Imho the stamp doesn't say anything about a ban.

gf insists it says banned and not suspended, but she's a bit stupid so you may well be right.

Back to the OP, can't imagine immigration admitting someone who's admitted arson into the country again, ever.

I certainly wouldn't.

 

If you insist on trying, I would suggest ............

Get a new passport, have a holiday in Cambodia, see if they'll let you in at a Thai land border.

Edited May 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Imho the stamp doesn't say anything about a ban. It says he was sentenced to 1 year 8 months jail which is suspended for two years and that you are considered as "Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation" (12.7 of the immigration act) which is the reason why you were deported.

So unless you have any other stamps in your passport you should be able to enter Thailand again, but in the future any IO at the border might just deny you entry under 12.7. And if you do anything wrong in the next two years you will end up in jail, so you should consider if you want to risk it.

 

It really doesn't matter very much, he will very, very likely not be admitted.

 

As suggested by someone else, contact your landlord and ask him to ship your belongings.

[mstevens]

39 minutes ago, stevenl said:

It really doesn't matter very much, he will very, very likely not be admitted.

What is this comment based on? Knowledge of Immigration policy?

 

I know of a fair few people who have been convicted of crimes in Thailand (nothing too serious, admittedly), but two of them did jail time. All have been able to come and go from the country as they please since being convicted without any problems.

[Caldera]

"After some new arrivals on the street I was subject to abuse and minor assaults for 3 months."

 

Out of curiosity, where is that infamous street located? Were these new arrivals fellow expats or Thais? It sounds like a pretty rough neighborhood, not like anything I've ever encountered myself in Thailand.

[hellohello123]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

gf insists it says banned and not suspended, but she's a bit stupid so you may well be right.

Back to the OP, can't imagine immigration admitting someone who's admitted arson into the country again, ever.

I certainly wouldn't.

 

If you insist on trying, I would suggest ............

Get a new passport, have a holiday in Cambodia, see if they'll let you in at a Thai land border.

I spilt my drink reading that

 

Funniest thing I've read this week

[natway09]

Need a lot more info on this before passing much of an opinion but smells fishy

[PerkinsCuthbert]

The phrase in the stamp, "โทษจำรอ๒ปี", literally translates as "imprisonment wait",  indicating that his sentence is suspended for two years. Therefore, superficially at least, and unless the OP has other stamps, he is not banned outright. However, an IO, on seeing the stamp as he tries to enter Thailand, may have another opinion and look for excuses to deny the OP entry. 

[pookett]

According to Mrs p, yes the stamp says the op has a 1yr8m suspended sentence for arson, valid for a period of 2yrs. Quoting rule 12.7 it proceeds to state don't allow entry.

One assumes for the 2yr period.

As others have said, speak to friends and the landlord to arrange forwarding your chattles.

[Captain 776]

You can contact Siam Legal........go to their website, you can ask them......FOR FREE.........for the first few back n forth e mails.

 

I have done it 3-4 times in 14 yrs.

The recent issue is with German neighbors from hell, we had 3-4 e mails back n forth and just went and had a face to face consultation this morning.

They did not ask for anything for the e mails back n forth then it was my request for the meeting.......consultation was 3000 bhat for the hour........which I consider fair and now have solid advice for what the options are.

[Thingamabob]

How on earth did you allow yourself to get into this mess ? I can't see any way back for you now. 

[Encore]

29 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

You can contact Siam Legal........go to their website, you can ask them......FOR FREE.........for the first few back n forth e mails.

 

I have done it 3-4 times in 14 yrs.

The recent issue is with German neighbors from hell, we had 3-4 e mails back n forth and just went and had a face to face consultation this morning.

They did not ask for anything for the e mails back n forth then it was my request for the meeting.......consultation was 3000 bhat for the hour........which I consider fair and now have solid advice for what the options are.

Unfortunately, SL advised they ‘cannot assist or advise’

[OneEyedPie]

1 minute ago, Encore said:

Unfortunately, SL advised they ‘cannot assist or advise’

We're all dying to know your story.

 

All we know is you were deported to LHR along with your British passport.  

[Encore]

Thank you all for the constructive comments, especially the interpretation of the stamp, which is very helpful.  

[holy cow cm]

One of the key notes here is that you actually served jail time. That is the no no that immigration feasts on, not the suspended sentence. Why were you in jail for so long? No bail money?

[Encore]

14 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

One of the key notes here is that you actually served jail time. That is the no no that immigration feasts on, not the suspended sentence. Why were you in jail for so long? No bail money?

I was held in prison pending a police report after which I continued to be remanded in custody awaiting the court to schedule a hearing.  Bail was offered on 2 occasions but applications were refused by the court apparently based on the seriousness of the offence

[OneEyedPie]

What were the circumstances leading up to incarceration?

[Encore]

35 minutes ago, OneEyedPie said:

What were the circumstances leading up to incarceration?

 

I do not think the background is relevant but can elaborate.  In the 3 months leading up the arrest, some neighbours would shout abuse as I came and went on my motorbike.  I was pushed and shoved on occasions and actually punched once.  My house was entered 3-4 times with doors and windows left open while I was out (which I considered could be a precursor to a robbery).  I tried to report this to the police but they were not concerned.  

 

The new neighbours also made false complaints to the landlord saying I was a nuisance even though I led a quiet life alone.  I can only believe that these actions were orchestrated because my Thai neighbours did not wish to have a foreigner living on the street.  

 

About a week before the arrest, my Thai next door neighbour (who had not previously spoken to me) offered me food while I was sat on the verandah.  I thanked him but, after eating, I became dizzy, nauseous and tired so drank salt water to make myself vomit and then went to the hospital.  I was checked, given medicine and told that I had a bad case of food poisoning.

 

A few days later my Thai neighbour came home drunk and saw me on my verandah.  I was having a drink and cleaning cigarette burn marks from an outdoor table.  After some unprovoked verbal abuse he turned a water hose on me, threw large potted plants at me, broke down my front sliding car gate and then came to attack me with a long metal rod.  Someone called the police who accused me of attacking the man and forcibly arrested me.

 

When I was arrested, the police would not even let me take my wallet and phone or secure my house and left the front door open.  As I was taken away in handcuffs, many of my Thai neighbours were streaming into the house.  I guess some things were stolen and everything else was later, apparently, removed from the house by the house owner.  The police also removed my expensive shoes and a belt which were never returned.  

[bigginhill]

1 hour ago, Encore said:

 

I do not think the background is relevant but can elaborate.  In the 3 months leading up the arrest, some neighbours would shout abuse as I came and went on my motorbike.  I was pushed and shoved on occasions and actually punched once.  My house was entered 3-4 times with doors and windows left open while I was out (which I considered could be a precursor to a robbery).  I tried to report this to the police but they were not concerned.  

 

The new neighbours also made false complaints to the landlord saying I was a nuisance even though I led a quiet life alone.  I can only believe that these actions were orchestrated because my Thai neighbours did not wish to have a foreigner living on the street.  

 

About a week before the arrest, my Thai next door neighbour (who had not previously spoken to me) offered me food while I was sat on the verandah.  I thanked him but, after eating, I became dizzy, nauseous and tired so drank salt water to make myself vomit and then went to the hospital.  I was checked, given medicine and told that I had a bad case of food poisoning.

 

A few days later my Thai neighbour came home drunk and saw me on my verandah.  I was having a drink and cleaning cigarette burn marks from an outdoor table.  After some unprovoked verbal abuse he turned a water hose on me, threw large potted plants at me, broke down my front sliding car gate and then came to attack me with a long metal rod.  Someone called the police who accused me of attacking the man and forcibly arrested me.

 

When I was arrested, the police would not even let me take my wallet and phone or secure my house and left the front door open.  As I was taken away in handcuffs, many of my Thai neighbours were streaming into the house.  I guess some things were stolen and everything else was later, apparently, removed from the house by the house owner.  The police also removed my expensive shoes and a belt which were never returned.  

And the arson part?

And why declare yourself guilty?

Where did it happen?

I fear you may not have much to recuperate, maybe your landlord can send you photos of whats left? Do you have friends that can help?

 

[OneEyedPie]

Encore, why didn't you move at the first sign of trouble?

 

May I ask where you lived roughly in LOS.

[me4175]

1 hour ago, Encore said:

 

I do not think the background is relevant but can elaborate.  In the 3 months leading up the arrest, some neighbours would shout abuse as I came and went on my motorbike.  I was pushed and shoved on occasions and actually punched once.  My house was entered 3-4 times with doors and windows left open while I was out (which I considered could be a precursor to a robbery).  I tried to report this to the police but they were not concerned.  

 

The new neighbours also made false complaints to the landlord saying I was a nuisance even though I led a quiet life alone.  I can only believe that these actions were orchestrated because my Thai neighbours did not wish to have a foreigner living on the street.  

 

About a week before the arrest, my Thai next door neighbour (who had not previously spoken to me) offered me food while I was sat on the verandah.  I thanked him but, after eating, I became dizzy, nauseous and tired so drank salt water to make myself vomit and then went to the hospital.  I was checked, given medicine and told that I had a bad case of food poisoning.

 

A few days later my Thai neighbour came home drunk and saw me on my verandah.  I was having a drink and cleaning cigarette burn marks from an outdoor table.  After some unprovoked verbal abuse he turned a water hose on me, threw large potted plants at me, broke down my front sliding car gate and then came to attack me with a long metal rod.  Someone called the police who accused me of attacking the man and forcibly arrested me.

 

When I was arrested, the police would not even let me take my wallet and phone or secure my house and left the front door open.  As I was taken away in handcuffs, many of my Thai neighbours were streaming into the house.  I guess some things were stolen and everything else was later, apparently, removed from the house by the house owner.  The police also removed my expensive shoes and a belt which were never returned.  

I think I must be living in another Thailand than you... 
Never even heard of such continuous, unprovoked, open abuse and violence like you describe. It seems the story is missing a whole lot of details from the opposing side.

[Encore]

8 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

And the arson part?

And why declare yourself guilty?

Where did it happen?

I fear you may not have much to recuperate, maybe your landlord can send you photos of whats left? Do you have friends that can help?

 

I believe the police used the fact that I was cleaning the table with an inflammable liquid as the basis for the charge which, incidentally, originally stated that I was apprehended outside a government building with an incendiary device!  

 

I was advised that there was no defence against the police report even though there were no witnesses!

 

I am attempting to contact the house owner regarding my belongings.  Friends have, so far, not been able to obtain even my wallet or phone.

 

 

[Encore]

4 minutes ago, me4175 said:

I think I must be living in another Thailand than you... 
Never even heard of such continuous, unprovoked, open abuse and violence like you describe. It seems the story is missing a whole lot of details from the opposing side.

 

I agree it seems incredible that this happened after years of no issues at all.  As I said, it all seems as a result of new neighbours who, some local friends have suggested, were perhaps jealous of my circumstances. 

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, Encore said:

Unfortunately, SL advised they ‘cannot assist or advise’

yea when the land sharks won't take your money you know you're ****ed..

[Caldera]

13 minutes ago, Encore said:

As I said, it all seems as a result of new neighbours who, some local friends have suggested, were perhaps jealous of my circumstances. 

I don't think mere jealousy could have caused such a series of unprovoked, escalating attacks on you. If you really didn't do anything to trigger all that, your street must have been the worst neighborhood in Thailand ever.