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Blacklist or ban?


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Bad situation that turned really bad. So no bail allowed was the part that led you into jail time served which is harsh and a smear on the record now. May I ask where this all took place? City that is. I have had my share of some serious Thai crap over the years but did not get to that level of abuse and unity to get someone like you had. But I do believe you in what happened and the blackness that they did. They sometimes really get a kick and fun out of doing it..

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4 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Bad situation that turned really bad. So no bail allowed was the part that led you into jail time served which is harsh and a smear on the record now. May I ask where this all took place? City that is. I have had my share of some serious Thai crap over the years but did not get to that level of abuse and unity to get someone like you had. But I do believe you in what happened and the blackness that they did. They sometimes really get a kick and fun out of doing it..

 

Thai residential neighbourhood in Prachuap Khiri Khan.  It appeared that one neighbour encouraged another and then others joined in for the ‘fun’.  Prior to that, I led a fairly quiet routine and uneventful life apart from visiting friends around Thailand a few times a year.

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4 minutes ago, OneEyedPie said:

Why didn't you move at the first sign of trouble, Encore?

 

The situation appeared to be calming down although I was actively looking for another place to stay.

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3 hours ago, pookett said:

According to Mrs p, yes the stamp says the op has a 1yr8m suspended sentence for arson, valid for a period of 2yrs. Quoting rule 12.7 it proceeds to state don't allow entry.

One assumes for the 2yr period.

As others have said, speak to friends and the landlord to arrange forwarding your chattles.

Yes, I agree. I didn't read that far, but now I see that, after noting his suspension, the stamp states that he is forbidden from entering the Kingdom, though as you say, it does not state how long the ban will endure, only quoting the relevant section of the police order.

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OP - I'd strongly suggest you try to tidy up your affairs in Thailand remotely, and stay away for at least the duration of the ban. If you must, you could probably find out exactly how long you are banned by finding a legal entity in Thailand to advise you. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of your case, you are clearly viewed as persona non grata in Thailand, not least by the authorities, and were I in your position, I would stay well away.

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1 hour ago, Encore said:

When I was arrested, the police would not even let me take my wallet and phone or secure my house and left the front door open.  As I was taken away in handcuffs, many of my Thai neighbours were streaming into the house.  I guess some things were stolen and everything else was later, apparently, removed from the house by the house owner.

We can reasonably assume that your personal property is long gone so the property angle of your OP is moot.  

 

28 minutes ago, Encore said:

The situation appeared to be calming down although I was actively looking for another place to stay.

You inform that you were subject to abuse and minor assaults for three months and further note that you pleaded guilty to a charge that, as you say, you were not guilty of.

 

I'll be honest, I don't believe you're being entirely straight with us.  None of this story rings true other than you were charged and subsequently deported.  

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Anyway back to the topic at hand.

 

1. Try to get a friend to get your stuff.

2. If you really want to come to Thailand yourself, first get a new passport. This is an absolute must.

3. Fly to Cambodia or Laos. Do not transit in Thailand. Try to enter at Ban Laem or Ban Phak Kat (from Cambodia) or Nong Khai (from Laos)

4. Don't be so stupid as to return to the area or God forbid the street where you were arrested, had all your troubles and are known to the local police who clearly have it in for you unless you enjoy getting your head kicked in followed by a long stint in prison.

 

Good advice.  Thank you

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1 minute ago, OneEyedPie said:

We can reasonably assume that your personal property is long gone so the property angle of your OP is moot.  

 

You inform that you were subject to abuse and minor assaults for three months and further note that you pleaded guilty to a charge that, as you say, you were not guilty of.

 

I'll be honest, I don't believe you're being entirely straight with us.  None of this story rings true other than you were charged and subsequently deported.  

 

 

Thank you for your honesty and understand my story may seem improbable.  I have tried to reply openly and honestly to questions.  It would be quite ridiculous and unnecessary for me to fabricate such a story and I have no reasons for doing so.  I am only seeking advice

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2 minutes ago, Encore said:

Thank you for your honesty and understand my story may seem improbable.  I have tried to reply openly and honestly to questions.  It would be quite ridiculous and unnecessary for me to fabricate such a story and I have no reasons for doing so.  I am only seeking advice

No problem and fair play but something appears to be missing from your story, though.  

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25 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

OP - I'd strongly suggest you try to tidy up your affairs in Thailand remotely, and stay away for at least the duration of the ban. If you must, you could probably find out exactly how long you are banned by finding a legal entity in Thailand to advise you. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of your case, you are clearly viewed as persona non grata in Thailand, not least by the authorities, and were I in your position, I would stay well away.

I have contacted a number of lawyers to ascertain any specific period of ban on entry.  One that has just replied said they would only enquire about my Immigration status for a cost  of 53,500 baht.  That seems a little steep and I am hoping to find another that will accept my case.

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5 minutes ago, Encore said:

I have contacted a number of lawyers to ascertain any specific period of ban on entry.  One that has just replied said they would only enquire about my Immigration status for a cost  of 53,500 baht.  That seems a little steep and I am hoping to find another that will accept my case.

I wouldn't want to return to a country that had treated me like this.

Why the desperation to return?

Accept the hand fate has dealt you and move on.

If you must return to Asia, goto another country with a new passport, they're all much the same.

Edited by BritManToo
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5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I wouldn't want to return to a country that had treated me like this.

Why the desperation to return?

Accept the hand fate has dealt you and move on.

If you must return to Asia, goto another country with a new passport, they're all much the same.

Your point is well made and I had a bad experience that resulted in physical, mental and emotional fatigue.  It has taken many months of soul searching and recuperation to consider the options, including other countries such as Cambodia or the Philippines. However, all the reasons I chose to retire to live in Thailand remain valid.  I lived there longer than any other country, and worked there for 4 years prior to retirement, so came to consider it my home and it is my preference to return.  If it is possible, I would probably live in a gated community for better security.

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There is no mention of blacklisting for a specific period in your passport because none is needed. Assuming arson is not considered a "petty offense", if the immigration official when you are entering is aware of your case, he is instructed to deny you entry based on Section 12 (6) of the Immigration Act:

Quote

Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court; or by a lawful injunction; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country, except when the penalty is for petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

Siam Legal properly informed you that they could not help you. Only having your conviction and prison sentence expunged (or a change in the law) will you ever be able legally to enter Thailand again. Getting a conviction expunged in Thailand is almost impossible, though I expect millions of baht could probably achieve it.

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25 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Only having your conviction and prison sentence expunged (or a change in the law) will you ever be able legally to enter Thailand again.

I do not agree with this assessment. You have assumed the link between being given a prison sentence and being blacklisted are automatic and that any blacklisting is recorded. This is not the case. Not all prison sentences lead to a blacklisting. Until the OP presents at the border, he will only then find out if he is blacklisted. There is a different wording for a blacklisting stamp, different to the stamp he has received.

 

Since you can't read Thai, you may not appreciate this.

Edited by Briggsy
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28 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is no mention of blacklisting for a specific period in your passport because none is needed. Assuming arson is not considered a "petty offense", if the immigration official when you are entering is aware of your case, he is instructed to deny you entry based on Section 12 (6) of the Immigration Act:

Siam Legal properly informed you that they could not help you. Only having your conviction and prison sentence expunged (or a change in the law) will you ever be able legally to enter Thailand again. Getting a conviction expunged in Thailand is almost impossible, though I expect millions of baht could probably achieve it.

Thank you

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6 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I do not agree with this assessment. You have assumed the link between being given a prison sentence and being blacklisted are automatic and that any blacklisting is recorded. This is not the case. Not all prison sentences lead to a blacklisting. Until the OP presents at the border, he will only then find out if he is blacklisted. There is a different wording for a blacklisting stamp, different to the stamp he has received.

 

Since you can't read Thai, you may not appreciate this.

Your comment is appreciated and helpful 

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12 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I do not agree with this assessment. You have assumed the link between being given a prison sentence and being blacklisted are automatic and that any blacklisting is recorded. This is not the case. Not all prison sentences lead to a blacklisting. Until the OP presents at the border, he will only then find out if he is blacklisted. There is a different wording for a blacklisting stamp, different to the stamp he has received.

 

Since you can't read Thai, you may not appreciate this.

As far as I am aware , any served prison sentence of over six months (Remand & Suspended , not included) , then the prosecutor can apply to the judge for a deportation order and a lifes ban from re- entering .

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16 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I do not agree with this assessment. You have assumed the link between being given a prison sentence and being blacklisted are automatic and that any blacklisting is recorded. This is not the case. Not all prison sentences lead to a blacklisting. Until the OP presents at the border, he will only then find out if he is blacklisted. There is a different wording for a blacklisting stamp, different to the stamp he has received.

 

Since you can't read Thai, you may not appreciate this.

You are wrong that I cannot read Thai, and my post explicitly recognised that a blacklisting stamp is different from the deportation stamp actually placed in the OP's passport.

We will have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of Section 12 (6) of the Immigration Act. To me, in is clear that the fact of being imprisoned for a serious offence (in Thailand or other countries) is sufficient to make you a non admittable person, without the separate blacklisting step necessary if lesser offences are involved  Of course, it is conceivable that the OP might successfully enter with a new passport, but (if the immigration official is aware that he was sentenced to prison for a non trivial offence) denial under Section 12 (6) is supposed to be automatic. The only wiggle room would be that arson could be considered a trivial offence.

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55 minutes ago, Encore said:

 

After a nomadic existence from being a child, only staying in one place for 2-3 years, I ended up working in Thailand for 4 years and felt more comfortable there than anywhere else which I why decided to retire there and make it my home.  Everything I had was there and is the reason I would like to go back.  Difficult to understand for some maybe but there is no more to it than that. 

There must be some more to it than what you are saying .

Many foreigners live in villages and the levels of dislike against you are practically unheard  of .

  The obvious reason is females or relationships .

Did you have any relationships with any females from the village ?

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4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

then the prosecutor can apply to the judge for a deportation order and a lifes ban from re- entering .

Indeed but it is not automatic, wouldn't you concur?

 

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

We will have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of Section 12 (6) of the Immigration Act

Yet the stamp references Section 12 (7) not Section 12 (6). Are you sure you can read Thai? This is second error you have made and earlier you blamed your girlfriend's translation. I am not launching an ad hominem  attack but am just trying to pin down the fact that it is certainly not the case that @Encore is indeed without doubt blacklisted. You earlier stated it was the case. I think it is still unsure.

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Apart from those who feel the need to accuse and impune, I very much appreciate the comments from those addressing and debating the pertinent points of my enquiry.  Many of the points made have been very useful.  Thank you.

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Apart from those who feel the need to accuse and impune, I very much appreciate the comments from those addressing and debating the pertinent points of my enquiry.  Many of the points made have been very useful.  Thank you.
I have been following this post, and from what has been said is quite a lot!! However the point is are you blacklisted or banned? I myself was Imprisoned in (klong prem) for 1year 6months then released to be taken to IDC Bangkok to be deported, you have had some same experience that I have had lawyers will take your money all day long ....the best way to find out is to try a land crossing so your are not trapped in Thailand the choice is yours. Best of luck..

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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51 minutes ago, Briggsy said:
58 minutes ago, BritTim said:

We will have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of Section 12 (6) of the Immigration Act

Yet the stamp references Section 12 (7) not Section 12 (6). Are you sure you can read Thai? This is second error you have made and earlier you blamed your girlfriend's translation. I am not launching an ad hominem  attack but am just trying to pin down the fact that it is certainly not the case that @Encore is indeed without doubt blacklisted. You earlier stated it was the case. I think it is still unsure.

Check again who made the earlier erroneous post. You recall incorrectly that it was me.

 

Section 12 (7) was cited for the deportation. On entry, while Section 12 (7) could be used, Section 12 (6) is more clearcut.

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3 minutes ago, fuzzie said:

you have had some same experience that I have had lawyers will take your money all day long ....the best way to find out is to try a land crossing so your are not trapped in Thailand the choice is yours. Best of luck..

Thank you, Fuzzie

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15 minutes ago, Encore said:

Apart from those who feel the need to accuse and impune, I very much appreciate the comments from those addressing and debating the pertinent points of my enquiry.  Many of the points made have been very useful.  Thank you.

Although no one has accused you of anything .

Some of us just have the opinion that there is more to this story .

I could understand it if you didnt get on with your neighbours and there was some animosity there , but the whole village seems to against you , as well as the Police .

  You have been physically attacked , poisoned and have had the Police trying to have terrorism charges bought against you  and S.L, dont want anything to do with you .

  There must be some reason why people are behaving in such a manner aand its not unreasonable for people to ask you whether you have any inclination as to why the locals dont seem to like you  

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12 minutes ago, fuzzie said:

I have been following this post, and from what has been said is quite a lot!! However the point is are you blacklisted or banned? I myself was Imprisoned in (klong prem) for 1year 6months then released to be taken to IDC Bangkok to be deported, 

Did you get a ban or was you free to come straight back ?

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